<def-lkb_>
ktt3ja: values can't start with an uppercase letter
<ktt3ja>
def-lkb_: ok, thanks
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<zRecursive>
As i run ocaml frequently on command line, the banner message is a bit annoying.
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<def-lkb_>
zRecursive: -stdin flag
<def-lkb_>
(you may need to add '#use "test.ml";;' to stdin)
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<zRecursive>
def-lkb_: what does "-stdin flag" mean ? No option in `ocaml --help`
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<ktt3ja>
why do I get the error "File "rosetta.ml", line 36, characters 4-137: Error: This expression has type unit but an expression was expected of type int"? http://pastebin.com/YztpbDQR
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<zRecursive>
`echo "his() ;;" | ocaml -noprompt -init $MD/ocaml/money.ml str.cma unix.cma` works great from command line. However, if putting it in sh script(test.sh): echo "$* ;;" | ocaml -noprompt -init $MD/ocaml/money.ml str.cma unix.cma, `./test.sh 'his()'` will reports "unix.cma: not found" and still output right result.
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<ygrek>
what if you put -init after cma ?
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<zRecursive>
ygrek: It works like a charm ! thank you
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<sgnb>
there is an optional "mirrors" field in OPAM documentation for url, but I cannot get it to work... I get "unknown fields", and grep shows no occurrence of "mirrors" in opam nor in opam-repository
<sgnb>
and it seems that "opam pin" doesn't allow one to override the url for a package
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<sgnb>
oh, that feature is in the git repository
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<Kakadu>
I have an ocamlbuild rule with "ui/Root.qml" dependecy
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<Kakadu>
OCamlbuild was giving an error `no rules to apply` to ui/Root.qml
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<Kakadu>
I was thinking that it doesn't know what to do with this file
<Kakadu>
but I suddenly realised that file doesn't exists
<Kakadu>
So, I have created it and now everything is fine
<Kakadu>
Should this be reported as small issue with ocamlbuild?
<Kakadu>
Maybe I just don't understand how it works and this error message is obvious....
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<josch>
I want to create a GraphML reader. GraphML is XML so I need an ocaml XML parser. I do not have any special requirements, so my most important concerns are maturity, stability and a reasonably high chance that the library will not be abandoned by their developers any time soon
<josch>
since these measurements are very soft and since i didnt find any such comparison of ocaml xml parsers online, I'm turning to this channel
<dsheets>
josch, dom or streaming?
<josch>
possibly ocaml expat is the most mature because it depends on libexpat which is used by lots of projects?
<josch>
dsheets: either works - if there is a tie, then streaming
<dsheets>
josch, xmlm is my go to
<dsheets>
pure ocaml, flexible
<flux>
and doesn't use Obj.magic :)
<dsheets>
maintainer is active, uptake in web processing systems in ocaml
<josch>
i also looked at the reverse dependencies of ocaml xml libraries in debian but nothing depends on any of them (expat, pxp, tyxml, xml-light, xmlm)
<dsheets>
doesn't try to use crazy type tricks
<dsheets>
josch, try opam.ocaml.org
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<josch>
dsheets: right, that gives me more ocaml interdependencies
<dsheets>
josch, depends on how much lib support you want, i guess vs how light you want your dep
<dsheets>
damn, our search in opam2web sucks
<josch>
i just want to be reasonably sure that the xml library I choose will not be kicked off a number of distributions like Debian because upstream died
<josch>
that chance of course lessens if the library is used by lots of other projects
<josch>
okay, xmlm has the least dependencies and is depended upon by most on opam
<josch>
i guess together with your immediate recommendation that's my choice now
<josch>
dsheets, flux: thanks a lot!
<dsheets>
josch, i also happen to be toying with a transformation dsl based on it...
<dsheets>
if you have qnames in your xml then maybe it isn't suitable off-the-shelf
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<pacemkr>
is anybody familiar with opam-doc or bin-doc specifically in here?
<pacemkr>
need to test my mental model
<nlucaroni>
I don't know much aside from running it (successfuly) a few times, you can bounce it off me though.
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<pacemkr>
thank you. im trying to understand what the reasoning is behind bin-doc. opam-doc proxies calls to ocamlc(.opt) then runs bin-doc against cmt files, storing result in a new (?) cmd format. opam-doc-index then reads the cmd files and builds html from that using cow. my question is why not just grab the compile target at the proxy point and pass it on to ocamldoc, utilizing existing tools/format? my suspicion is that ocamldoc would fail with su
<pacemkr>
im making a few assumptions here, and im not sure if they're correct
<adrien_oww>
"would fail with su<cut"
<pacemkr>
"ch "arbitrary" input? hence we need to re-generate the docs info from complete type information that we get by adding -bin-anot in the proxy?"
<pacemkr>
message was cut?
<adrien_oww>
yes, max 512 chars or something like that
<pacemkr>
ah, good to know, thanks
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<pacemkr>
i suppose i could post a questinon to the project as 'avsm' suggested yesterday
<nlucaroni>
sry pacemkr. i've been meaning to look at the opam-doc this weekend to hopefully constribute.
<pacemkr>
np, ill post a question to the proj, hopefully that will help us understand the code/reasoning
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<rks`>
pacemkr: "wan't" :D
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<nicoo>
gasche: Why didn't you consider making bucketlists mutable, in #4747? Is the write barrier that expansive? (sorry for the repost, but it seems you didn't get the message)
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<pacemkr>
rks`: fixed, thanks =)
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<Drup>
pacemkr: about your bug report, I don't think you realise how crappy ocamldoc is :)
<Drup>
sometimes, a full rewrite is not a bad idea
<Drup>
(I'm talking about the whole "let's pipe stuff through ocamldoc" part only)
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<pacemkr>
(my irc client is failing me)
<pacemkr>
Drup: bin-doc is meant as a replacement? i thought it was more of a workaround to get the docs without having to care about how individual packages choose to generate them
<pacemkr>
"(this is a temporary measure until we patch the main compiler frontends to understand cmd files)"
<pacemkr>
so you are probably right
<pacemkr>
in that case it may make sense for me to write that bin-doc to json serializer
<Drup>
cmd or json, doesn't really matter
<pacemkr>
matters a whole lot if you're trying to make a website out of it =)
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<Drup>
why ? you take the cmd and generate html
<pacemkr>
thats if you're using ocaml for this step
<Drup>
why would you use something else ? :D
<pacemkr>
=D
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<pacemkr>
i know im in an ocaml room and all, but there is a sea of "web stuff" on other stacks
<pacemkr>
a json interface opens that entire world up
<Drup>
you can read cmd too, the format is not closed in anyway, just compact
<pacemkr>
to give you a concrete example, i want to create a static docs site that consumes json, renders it on client side, and keeps everything for offline use
<Drup>
since it's static, why can't you use ocaml do to that ?
<pacemkr>
i can, i still need the json though
<Drup>
just generate html statically and you are done, I don't understand what you want :|
<pacemkr>
i dont want to generate any html =)
<Drup>
then I don't understand what you want :x
<pacemkr>
im doing a poor job of explaining myself, sorry
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<dsheets>
we have js_of_ocaml so you could xhr json and then render up doms in ocaml in the browser
<dsheets>
but this is a rather gross solution
<Drup>
but anyway, why do you want to render the doc, there is no dynamic behavior anyway. Just generate stuff statically.
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<pacemkr>
what i envision is a simple html page with some templates (maybe handlebars) and knockout.js for interactivity, and all it takes as input is json
<pacemkr>
adding ocaml or js_of_ocaml to that mix just makes it more complicated
<Drup>
pacemkr: oh, you just want to make a webpage that do the "cmd/json -> doc" translation ?
<pacemkr>
i also have no interest in mixing html and ocaml, i just feel im back at (im almost afraid to say it =) PHP with markup mixed with code, it's all very unreadable
<pacemkr>
drup: and some interesting search features to go along with that, but essentially
<pacemkr>
if i wanted to make basic usability changes to the current opam-index-doc output, its actually far more difficult than it should be, imho
<Drup>
and so, why can't you take cmd as input ? you will still have to decode the data in the json, it wouldn't change anything.
<Drup>
(my opinion anyway is that you shouldn't need a webserver to read documentation ...)
<pacemkr>
you wouldnt the way i want to build it, it would work offline and the next time you go online, the docs would be updated
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<pacemkr>
but what is consuming the docs in my case is javascript
<pacemkr>
consuming json is simple JSON.parse
<pacemkr>
consuming a binary cmd file...
<pacemkr>
an ajax request is fetching the doc file as a static resource
<pacemkr>
and then rendering that on the client
<pacemkr>
vs ocaml rendering everything to static html pages, this is more difficult to change actually
<Drup>
seems quite complicated for low added value :/
<pacemkr>
the value is much much less code and easier maintenance
<pacemkr>
also there are many js tools on the client side that are natural to use in js
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<pacemkr>
like knockout.js or someting like that for doing interactivity, i want to do instant fuzzy search for example
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<pacemkr>
adding that sort of functionality to opam-index-doc is quite difficult as i understand
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<dsheets>
pacemkr, while i agree there are issues with the present opam-doc, i'm not sure i understand your philosophy
<dsheets>
pacemkr, if you write the rendering code in ocaml and ensure that i can be compiled to js or ocaml, you can have the best of both worlds
<Drup>
I don't ether. You just add a level of web thingy to do something that should be completly offline
<dsheets>
specifically, you can render in the browser or render offline
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<Drup>
pacemkr: specifically, how does it work if I want to regenerate locally the documentation with my dev version ?
<pacemkr>
(my conn keeps getting dropper, sry)
<pacemkr>
you would still get index.html that you launch and it all works the same
<pacemkr>
just the docs site itself will be more interactive, easier to navigate quickly
<pacemkr>
dropped*
<Drup>
you can still do that by modifying the html generated by opam-doc. Seems easier than to do your ajax fetching .cmd
<pippijn>
drop, dropper, droppest
<dsheets>
ajax is disallowed for file:// in a number of browsers
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<dsheets>
it's like talking to someone with a chronic seizure disorder
<Drup>
dsheets: I find his name oddly appropriate, in this regard :)
<dsheets>
yikes
<dsheets>
anyway, ajax is disallowed for file:// in a number of browsers
<pacemkr>
for it to be interactive there needs to be js code that gets the docs in some structured format, cmd is not suitable for that, unless you resort to js_of_ocaml which add complexity
<dsheets>
pacemkr, interactive how?
<pacemkr>
instant search, for example
<pacemkr>
offline
<pacemkr>
drup: cablevison or nothing in my area =P
<Drup>
and you find the complexity added by js_of_ocaml greater than adding ajax to fetching json somewhere else ?
<Drup>
you never used js_of_ocaml, didn't you ?
<dsheets>
i think we can have instant search without network fetches
<dsheets>
a lot of these problems would be easier with a doc server, though
<dsheets>
erm solutions to the problems
<Drup>
a doc server is just not convenient for lot's of purposes :/
<pacemkr>
drup: i havent used js_of_ocaml no, but so havent most people. my guess is there is some sort of quoting or something to call js functions in third party libraries?
<Drup>
yes
<pacemkr>
im definitely coming from a different perspective, i just saw that navigating the docs is difficult, saw some usability issues, and want to contribute on that end
<dsheets>
pacemkr, yes, it is difficult and needs work and contributions are welcome
<dsheets>
i liked your write-up of ideas in the gh issue
<dsheets>
Drup, why is a doc server bad? I mean, i know it's a little annoying but it's the only way to get around the CORS problem
<Drup>
CORS ?
<dsheets>
and once you have that, you might as well keep the index in the server and issue requests for search
<dsheets>
Cross-Origin Request Sharing
<dsheets>
restrictions on cross-domain calls, basically
<Drup>
oh yeah, that
<Drup>
I don't really see the issue, though
<dsheets>
pacemkr, wants a global search index, afaict
<pacemkr>
i think i will whip up some sort of prototype and get your opinion on that, we'll have something more concrete to talk about =)
<dsheets>
from my perspective, *dependency* on js is a no-go
<pacemkr>
i actually suspect that js_of_ocaml can have a role in what i have in mind, but not for working with the dom, third party libraries, maybe for the search part
<Drup>
if "global" is "for your complete library", not an issue, everything is there statically, you can embed it somewhere.
<dsheets>
and hand-written js for neat-o features should be minimized in favor of generic ocaml/js_of_ocaml components
<Drup>
if "global" is "for every library ever", yeah, sure ..
<dsheets>
Drup, yes, maybe an index compiled into a js file and <script> included
<Drup>
exactly
<pacemkr>
this is not too different from a json file
<pacemkr>
similar approach
<Drup>
pacemkr: except you don't have the ajax thingy :]
<Drup>
and you can generate it offline and use it directly
<Anarchos>
what could be the programming language extracted by curry-howard correspondance from Homotopy type theory ?
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<Drup>
pacemkr: and that most documentation is still static html
<dsheets>
Anarchos, something very equational?
<pacemkr>
drup: then you would need a full network trip between doc pages
<Anarchos>
dsheets no idea. I think kind of an ml like language, with equality added to inductive types ?
<dsheets>
i wish *more* of the docs were static html now... too much js
<pacemkr>
drup: im just trying to explore something new here, maybe it will suck, maybe it will work, we'll see
<Drup>
pacemkr: everything is on your hard drive, why would you need a network trip ?!
<pacemkr>
ooooh, im thinking of what opam are trying to do with opam-doc
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<pacemkr>
i believe the idea is to put all docs for all packages in one place on the opam site
<dsheets>
pacemkr, well, opam's served docs will always require some network actions...
<dsheets>
imo, those network actions should be retrieval of html document fragments, though
<Drup>
pacemkr: sure, that's one aspect of it, the other is to fix ocamldoc and to be able to browse the documentation of the package you have on your computer
<Drup>
fetching a simple html page is not an issue anyway, those are not that big.
<pacemkr>
drup: what are the issues with ocamldoc
<Drup>
(especially if there is no dynamic stuff what so ever)
<pacemkr>
ive looked at the source/used it, but not long enough to notice anything too terrible
<Drup>
pacemkr: lot's of issues with functors and modules
<Drup>
the markup is a bit weird
<Drup>
(some people would say crappy)
<avsm>
primarily: no support for -pack or module inclusion
<avsm>
both are very hard to add
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<pacemkr>
avsm: can you expand a bit on these two points?
<avsm>
(thanks for creating that issue on opam-doc btw, very helpful to write down the rationale for the new tool)
<avsm>
there's not much to expand…ocamldoc simply doesn't support those two things
<pacemkr>
avsm: im quite new to ocaml =) by -pack you mean combine multiple packages into a single doc site? and by module inclusions you mean it cant understand what "include Module" means?
<avsm>
that's right.
<Drup>
-pack is a compiler option that bundle a bunch of modules into one big module
<avsm>
For instance, try running ocamldoc on Core, which has a lot of omdule includs
<pacemkr>
and as far as the issue, that was my intent more than anything, just write down what i understood from looking at the various sources/state of things
<avsm>
*includes
<avsm>
ocamldoc simply gives up
<avsm>
(yep, your analysis was accurate)
<avsm>
the reason the new system is better is that it re-uses the compiler module resolution logic
<pacemkr>
alright, so those sound like show stoppers to me
<avsm>
your query about json vs html is somewhat orthogonal
<avsm>
since you could create json output if you wanted from the frontend tool
<avsm>
a pure javascript frontend would be quite useful i think
<avsm>
(and a very educational way to learn your way around the innards of ocaml. nothing like rendering an ast to get through a language)
<pacemkr>
ok, this is making much more sense to me now...
<pacemkr>
ocamldoc, i assume, tries to make its own sense out of the source, while bin-doc takes the ast and works from there
<pacemkr>
ie. bin-doc would be a good replacement for ocamldoc
<pacemkr>
is that right?
<avsm>
indeed
<avsm>
in the longer term, we plan to submit bin-doc upstream into the compiler driver (after a rewrite)
<avsm>
the current shell script hacks are just for the prototype
<avsm>
due to the difficulty of patching all the build systems
<pacemkr>
right, i actually tried rewriting those to send targets though ocamldoc (i didnt know better =)) and it failed miserably on core
<pacemkr>
rewriting the shell scripts that is
<Drup>
avsm: funnily, with have the same kind of issue as core in tyxml, as a much smaller scale, though.
<Drup>
we have*
<Drup>
too much functors = crappy documentation :/
<avsm>
heh, i remember playing with the predecessor to tyxml in ocamlduce years ago
<avsm>
heh. yeah — never had a chance to play with Ocsigen properly (beyond js_of_ocaml and Lwt of course)
<pacemkr>
asm: re js vs static html generation, orthogonal is right, two different approaches to skin the same cat. opam-index-doc and what i would call "cmd to json" are analogous to generators in ocamldoc
<Drup>
avsm: It's on my todo list to try to bundle an "eliom on mirage" individual website. It would be a very nice standalone solution I think.
<avsm>
pacemkr: yep. i'd actually love to see a sproutcore version of the docs.
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<avsm>
with an embedded js_of_ocaml toplevel for the library. would be ridiculously cool
<avsm>
drup: that's my plan too. we're trying to move our personal homepages over before FOSDEM
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<pacemkr>
avsm: did you say something before this "with an embedded js_of_ocaml toplevel for the library. would be ridiculously cool" (i need to go scream at my ISP…)
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<Drup>
pacemkr: a good solution against crappy connection : but an ZNC bouncer somewhere we playback on connection and connect to it
<Drup>
put*
<Drup>
with*
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<Drup>
and I need to brain before my brain stop functioning. have a good ocaml hacking.
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<avsm>
> pacemkr: yep. i'd actually love to see a sproutcore version of the docs.
<pacemkr>
drup: have a good brain
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<Drup>
eat* x)
<pacemkr>
avsm: thanks
<nicoo>
Drup: You are going to eat brains ?
* nicoo
is definitely not ready for the zombiecalypse yet.
<seliopou>
avsm: in case you were wondering, our problem yesterday was due to a low max_pending_connection default for listen()
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<avsm>
seliopou: Ah I see. I wondered about why the other diff with the optional arguments would make a difference
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<Anarchos>
/list
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<oriba>
leading space is not what you want...
<Anarchos>
oriba i know thanks
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