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<Nistur> mornin'
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<Regenaxer> Hi Nistur
<yunfan> beneroth: do you have any food price data on europe?
<Nistur> yunfan: are you trying to compare cost of living?
<yunfan> Nistur: yes.
<yunfan> Nistur: thanks
<aw-> yunfan you live in HK right?
<aw-> or is it yumaikas ?
<yunfan> aw-: nope, i live in shanghai
<aw-> oh ok
<yunfan> i havnt been to HK yet :[
<yunfan> thought i'd have a passport
<aw-> cool Shanghai, we're pretty close ;)
<yunfan> well, shanghai is cool for rich people and its resident, i am like mexican live in dexas
<yunfan> where are you ? aw-
<aw-> yunfan: hahaha
<aw-> interesting comparison
<aw-> i'm near Tokyo in Japan
<yunfan> ah, you were closer than beijing
<yunfan> i used to exploring on google earth, and found that japan is just closer than beijng to shanghai
<aw-> yeah
<yunfan> hope one day i could take a visit to japan , i am very intersting of japanese familly farm
<aw-> yes you should visit some time, there's a few PicoLisp people here as well
<yunfan> also the tokyo huge sewer is impressive tome
<yunfan> so you were all japanese or just europeans? i heard that many europeans like to live in japan and thailand
<aw-> i'm Canadian
<yunfan> a friend of mine from new zealand once told me he want to move to japan, now i lost contact with him. dont know if he got that done
<aw-> it's surprisingly easy to move here, just fill out some forms without mistakes haha
<yunfan> ok. nice choice . i like japan too
<yunfan> aw-: you mean permanent live ?
<aw-> well.. long-term living
<aw-> many people come here to study for 1 or 2 years, and then find jobs and live permanently
<aw-> study Japanese
<yunfan> yes, i want to study their farming too :D
<aw-> yes that's possible
<yunfan> the japanese also like to visit my hometown , which is a famous scenic spot to them
<aw-> there's a program designed specifically for that, i forgot the name
<aw-> yunfan: WWOOF Japan - search for it
<yunfan> aw-: not possible right now, just got married, need to save some money .
<aw-> yunfan: what's your hometown?
<yunfan> and my final plan is to running my own familly farmland, so i think i could went to study at that time
<aw-> oh congrats!
<yunfan> aw-: its the Yellow Mountain of china, or HuangShan in chinese pinyin
<aw-> oh yeah i've heard of it!
<yunfan> aw-: thanks to your foreign tourist, we could have a international airport as a very poor region
<yunfan> i remember western tourist had come since 1990s
<aw-> yunfan: yes and thanks to UNESCO
<aw-> 黄山
<aw-> same as Japanese "Yellow Mountain"
<aw-> yunfan: do you need to buy farmland? what is the process to obtain it?
<yunfan> aw-: btw, is it really that canadian could just cross the us-ca border like that acts in the tv seris "sillicon vallay"
<aw-> haha yes, but we need a passport still
<yunfan> aw-: well, in china, theorty we couldnt BUY farmland for all of the land belongs to china goverment
<yunfan> but still we could rent for a very long time like 50 years
<yunfan> its almost lifetime
<aw-> ok that's what I was wondering
<yunfan> and if you want to do that, you could find some village, and its manager, make the contract
<yunfan> aw-: that's why i'd prefer to migrate to australia, i like private farmland
<aw-> do you know what is the price (approx) for maybe.. 4000sqm ?
<yunfan> aw-: i'd just happend to rent 50 Mu these month for 20 years
<aw-> what is Mu ?
<yunfan> Mu is chinese acre equals to 667 sqm
<yunfan> 1 HA is about 15 Mu
<yunfan> in china , we sold land by this unit
<aw-> 1 HA is like.. 1 Acre I guess?
<yunfan> and the price is 200 Yuan per year, so for 20 years its 4000 per 667 sqm
<aw-> hmm no i think i'm wrong
<yunfan> no, 1 hecta is about 2 acre
<yunfan> i often search famrland in the website, these ratio is familliar to me :D
<aw-> yunfan: oh great, thanks for the conversion you saved me some time
<yunfan> aw-: but, that's just my hometown
<aw-> ok let's see.. so 50 Mu would be how many Acres?
<aw-> oh (* 667 50)
<yunfan> aw-: i'd join a mordern argriculture chatting group of china, someone from shandong province need to rent the land for 1000 yuan per Mu for a year
<yunfan> they grow potato and sell to korean and japanese
<aw-> wow
<aw-> that price is sooo cheap for the land
<yunfan> aw-: and if you go north, very far north, to the inner mongolia, it only cost you 20 yuan for a Mu , but which is grassland
<aw-> not agricultural..
<yunfan> aw-: really? isnt your country had the cheaper land?
<aw-> perhaps in Canada it's cheap, you can own the land, but nobody wants to live in the places where it's cheap ;)
<aw-> too cold
<aw-> probably comparable to Harbin
<aw-> or colder
<yunfan> aw-: that's a problem, so i prefer australia, thought its drier
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<yunfan> aw-: btw, consider the chinese currecy's exchange rate tendacy,. its no doubt that the land renting would cost you more in future
<aw-> right right
<yunfan> also you forget that its not belong to private, so goverment might take that from you randomly. i am afrid of that
<aw-> if you can have successful crops in short time then it can become quite profitable
<yunfan> what's the price of that in japan?
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<yunfan> yes, under such policy, people tend to focus on shortime profit
<aw-> haha yeah that's the risk, so you need to rest your profits in a economically stable foreign country
<aw-> yunfan: price of land in Japan is astronomically high
<yunfan> aw-: i heard from news that there'were many small village in japan need farmers?
<aw-> and i think less than 20% can be used for agriculture
<aw-> yes there is a major shortage because "younger" Japanese people don't learn farming, they move to big cities to work
<yunfan> well i wish my hometown;s younger could study from the japanese
<aw-> there's one or two generations of non-farmers, so there's a huge demand for that
<yunfan> in that case, the land would be much more cheaper :D
<aw-> i think Japanese govnt is trying to encourage foreigners to move to countryside and work on farms
<aw-> but there's a big difference "working on a farm" and "working on YOUR farm"
<aw-> if you can't get the profits, there's no point. I feel that way for regular office jobs as well ;)
<aw-> perhaps it's just good for learning, then go back to home country and spread the knowledge
<yunfan> well, its really a good things for us japan arround countries
<yunfan> as i mentioned a friend of mine grwo potato and sell to them
<yunfan> they have labour shortage problem which rise all of the price
<yunfan> though china would met that problem in this decade too
<aw-> yeah but it's probably better for Japan if Japan didn't import so much
<aw-> potatoes are a good choice I think
<aw-> they are really expensive here compared to our Canadian potatoes
<aw-> yunfan: what do you plan to grow on your land?
<yunfan> aw-: unfortunatelly my hometown is note suitable for growing potato, its better for sweet potato
<yunfan> aw-: its my father who were running the farm currently, he want to make a entertainment farm
<yunfan> aw-: for me, i want to grow any offgrid corps for preparing for the incoming food crisis
<yunfan> yesterday i just happend to know Canna edulis Ker is very suit for this purpose
<aw-> sweet potato! that's great, I love it, and so healthy
<aw-> what are offgrid crops?
<yunfan> aw-: a lots of chinese dislike it because in the 1960 famine, they eat it too much
<aw-> hmmm.. I'm not familiar with it
<yunfan> aw-: many of the high production corps today require professional company to do breeding
<yunfan> if the econemy collapsed like my worried, there would be very hard to got these breeded seed or saple
<aw-> ohhh ok that's what you meant by "off grid"
<aw-> self sufficient
<yunfan> a offgrid is those dont require this and wont degenerated after generations of growing
<yunfan> yes
<aw-> right right
<aw-> you need heirloom seeds
<yunfan> bingo
<yunfan> and i had study on this, lotus is really an important seeds that you should take everywhere
<aw-> right
<yunfan> they could be storage for thousands of years
<aw-> yunfan: you have a GREAT plan, super interesting
<yunfan> aw-: i prefer to read chinese history, and in that history i read many of the loop of our faith
<yunfan> posperous -> decline -> posprous ...
<aw-> your approach is the best IMO, much better than trying to make quick profits and following trends
<aw-> yunfan: can you point to something specific I can read about that?
<yunfan> aw-: you said you dont know the famine in china at 1960s
<yunfan> you could do some search on google
<aw-> yes i know about that
<aw-> i thought you had much older history on that subject
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<yunfan> aw-: there s a book about chinese history which is just like greeks "history"
<yunfan> and since you were in japan, you could found it cause its chinese culture relevant
<yunfan> it recorded many years that famine caused people eating people
<aw-> oh i'm certain there are many books on the topic, I was hoping you could suggest one specific book ;)
<yunfan> and the japanese like the story of three kingdoms, in that history, china lost about 80% of the population
<yunfan> aw-: yes there is one specific book, but i dont know if ithas english version
<yunfan> i had the chinese version on my webdisk
<yunfan> if you could read in chinese i coukd send it to you
<aw-> i can read some chinese characters
<aw-> can you write the name here? i'll search for it
<yunfan> ok the book name is -中国食人史
<aw-> in English i would translate that to: China food person use
<aw-> wait, is it the China Study?
<yunfan> also that chinese history book name is 史记
<aw-> hmmm ok i will search
<yunfan> it requre you to have ancient chinese reading skill
<aw-> ohhh. chinese food history
<aw-> yunfan: do you know when the book was written/published?
<yunfan> maybe you could also check 春秋 and 战国策 many of the stories on them is the origin root of chinese culture
<yunfan> like why china goverment were so insist on growing food ourself
<yunfan> because in history there is a kingdom use trading to make the enemy give up growing their own and finally caused famine
<aw-> yeah... i've heard of that
<yunfan> aw-: except the first one . all others were written by ancient chinese throunds years ago
<aw-> yunfan: 食人史 in english translates to "cannibalism" but i think that's a mistake?
<yunfan> its close
<yunfan> i think its name shoukd be history record about cannibalism in china
<aw-> ok ok, i think i found it
<aw-> thanks!
<yunfan> i need to back home by riding. will back in 20 minutes
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<yunfan> back
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<aw-> yunfan: sorry was afk. Nice talking about this stuff. thanks
<aw-> back to PicoLisp now ;)
<yunfan> aw-: ok
<yunfan> aw-: i am also afk too much time
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<yunfan> just watching the microtractor from OSE
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