ChanServ changed the topic of #picolisp to: PicoLisp language | Channel Log: https://irclog.whitequark.org/picolisp/ | Check also http://www.picolisp.com for more information
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<Regenaxer> freemint, I would never think of editing something critical only in the heap
<Regenaxer> I start up pil every minute or so typically
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<freemint> Regenaxer why is that, don't you trust picolisp to do
<freemint> the right thing or don't you trust yourself?
<freemint> (that = restarting every minute)
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<freemint> also these habits you developed and sharpened over years would be very interesting to us newer users. (One more reason to record an hour of you working and having you comment on why you do what)
<beneroth> I have the habit to press Ctrl+S (saving) in most programs when I do work.
<beneroth> every few seconds.
<Regenaxer> freemint, nothing to do with trust
<Regenaxer> I need sources, with all their versions
<Regenaxer> and comments and read macros etc
<beneroth> T, it is not about trusting picolisp.
<Regenaxer> backups too
<Regenaxer> Restarting is because I need a frest test
<beneroth> every system has intended use cases and non-intended for which it gives no guarantees. nothing wrong with that, one just has to know the limits. but thats the case with every system.
<Regenaxer> Often also delete the DB (in an early stage) so that ib builds new
<Regenaxer> Startup is so very fast, it doesn't matter
<Regenaxer> Just hit ESC/K in bash, and repeat the ./pil .. command
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<tankf33der> new attack against openvpn
<tankf33der> compression again
<tankf33der> the most important quote:
<tankf33der> We've been saying for years that you should be using encrypted protocols only, even when your traffic is being encrypted by OpenVPN...
<razzy> i prefer weaker encryption on multiple layers :]
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<beneroth> thanks tankf33der !
<beneroth> razzy, what do you mean by that?
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<beneroth> fun or satire? probably the second, but who knows.
<beneroth> good we have pilDB :P
<Regenaxer> Oh no! "First of all, love the Lord God"
<Regenaxer> wtf
<Regenaxer> Must be satyrical
<beneroth> as stated in the introduction, the coc is taken from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_Saint_Benedict
<razzy> beneroth: you could encrypt in different ways in layers that goes in series
<Regenaxer> beneroth, makes sense then ;)
<beneroth> razzy, that is exactly what the quote is about... why weaker?
<beneroth> Regenaxer, "This code of conduct has proven its mettle in thousands of diverse communities for over 1,500 years, and has served as a baseline for many civil law codes since the time of Charlemagne. "
<Regenaxer> haha, true
<razzy> beneroth: mistake is mostly made in implementation, not in weak type of encryption
<Regenaxer> razzy, weaker code is better to be able to fight "terrorists" ?!
<beneroth> razzy, you stated you prefer "weaker" encryption? Why the word "weaker" in that sentence?
<beneroth> terrorist are freedom fighters when viewed from other perspective.
<Regenaxer> yeah
<beneroth> national security is government terrorism when viewed from other perspective
<Regenaxer> We are all terorrists in some sense
<razzy> weaker from brute-force perspective.
<Regenaxer> But what is it good for except for secret spyers?
<razzy> i prefer multiple efficient implementations. not neccesarily the strongest
<beneroth> well Regenaxer where you live the government and police are allowed to imprison everyone indefinitely without a court case. :/
<beneroth> razzy, why not multiple strong ones?
<Regenaxer> Yes Bavaria
<razzy> it is costly overkill
<beneroth> then optimize the costs, don't sacrifice the goal.
<Regenaxer> razzy says also less primitives in pil would be better
<beneroth> less then 3 data types?
<beneroth> or which primitives?
<Regenaxer> no, functions
<Regenaxer> eg he proposed to omit 'unless'
<Regenaxer> (when (not ...
<beneroth> well he can make a coding guideline not to use it
<Regenaxer> So he has his special world view ;)
<razzy> i have my oppinions :]
<beneroth> I like unless. its easier to state the meaning of the code, and its also more efficient!
<Regenaxer> yeah, good so, razzy
<beneroth> T
<beneroth> well you can make razzy-lisp based on picolisp, just take picolisp and remove the primitives you don't like. you can automate it :)
<Regenaxer> exactly :)
<beneroth> no reason to criticize others, just do it yourself the way you like :) picolisp is exactly the result of Regenaxer doing so.
<beneroth> this is what upsets me so much about the CoC guys...
<Regenaxer> yes, my own strange special taste
<beneroth> no use in finger pointing.just do it.
<razzy> first you ask if other more skilled people do not want to do it for you, if it is too costly, then do it ourself
<beneroth> this is lazy and disrespectful. maybe efficient. but still
<beneroth> I view respect of other peoples lifetime as a very important value core to most hacker/programming communities, at least in my pretty limited experience.
<razzy> very efficient and very respectfull :]
<beneroth> (I'm just discussing the notion in general, not attacking you, razzy )
<razzy> from certain point of view :]
<beneroth> but then you put your certain point of view higher than any possible views by others, no? :D
<beneroth> "Clients were encouraging me to have a code of conduct. (Having
<beneroth> and everybody approved. "
<beneroth> came up with what you found, submitted the idea to the whole staff,
<beneroth> a CoC seems to be a trendy thing nowadays.) So I looked around and
<razzy> if everybody do it, everything is done more efficiently :] problem is when people demand that you do it for them
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<razzy> if they ask politely, than it is negotiation
<beneroth> T
<razzy> i really think my way is better, so i am trying it. slowly, with multiple dead ends :]
<Regenaxer> Some in fact take it seriously
<Regenaxer> "I have to admit I was a lot more excited about the concept of SQLite having a Code of Conduct until I actually read it."
<beneroth> yes
<Regenaxer> ie. he was *excited* to see that there is one
<Regenaxer> uh
<beneroth> ironically they don't recognize that the other CoC's often look like this for the people not agreeing with it.
<Regenaxer> T
<beneroth> Regenaxer, I think the whole fad boils down to "virtue signalling" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling
<razzy> lol, so much fun :]
<razzy> some virtues are efficient only in special communities :]
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<beneroth> oh very T
<beneroth> from the HN discussion "this is a stab at Linux CoC? I can see the humour in it but... Seems unprofessonal for a project as SQLite? "
<beneroth> why do people expect professionalism from a FOSS project?
<beneroth> even projects which are now mostly based on payed professional work at companies.. those project are nearly all unprofessional (not payed, no warranty) originally, no?
<beneroth> ah the Sqlite CoC is from February 2018
<beneroth> so no parody on newer developments. :)
<razzy> every project starts unprofesionally :]
<beneroth> professionalism is virtue signalling :D
<razzy> yop
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<freemint> I got a cheeky idea about a PicoLisp CoC and i would like to bounce it of somebody before i write a draft but do not want to spoil anything to the complete IRC Channel. If somebody would query me it would be appreciated.
<beneroth> Why would we want to adopt an CoC freemint ?
<freemint> more in query
<Regenaxer> What happened to the world so that all are in a CoC fever?
<Regenaxer> PicoLisp's CoC is: KISS