kentonv changed the topic of #sandstorm to: Welcome to #sandstorm: home of all things sandstorm.io. Say hi! | Have a question but no one is here? Try asking in the discussion group: https://groups.google.com/group/sandstorm-dev
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<ill_logic>
Was it one of ours? I was wondering when someone might notice. Perhaps an rss reader out in the wild.
<ill_logic>
At any rate it's #1 so people care!
<abliss>
is that what being #1 means? :)
<ill_logic>
I see people taking issue with the login system. When I made my server, I didn't want to rely on anything on the outside, but LDAP was a whole thing I didn't want to take time to figure out.
<ill_logic>
I ended up just making it email a local user and I SSH in to get the key.
<ill_logic>
I wonder if there's a dead easy LDAP. Like, as easy as Sandstorm itself.
<isd>
Doubtful
<isd>
I haven't looked recently, but the last time I looked, FreeIPA was probably the best thing out there.
<isd>
Don't know how it compares though
<fkautz>
did sandstorm stop taking payments? i kept my account active and just noticed it's on a free plan. not sure how long it's been like that :p
<ill_logic>
Check out the second to last blog post.
<fkautz>
ah makes sense
<ill_logic>
I hope you were able to xfer your stuff out in time!
<fkautz>
it's all still there :)
<isd>
I think it's still possible to download stuff.
<abliss>
Yeah, though we've discussed ripping it out, as it seems to be a barrier to newcomers getting involved in hacking on the core (myself included).
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<ocdtrekkie>
TIL Cloudron is no longer open source.
<ocdtrekkie>
Apparently 11 months ago they replaced AGPL with a proprietary one.
<ocdtrekkie>
And it's not like a commons clause or SSPL thing, it's a "you must have a subscription to use this code" license.
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<TimMc__>
ill_logic: The news came through on my feed reader a couple hours after I heard about it here. :-)
<ocdtr_web>
Literally sent random other people your private Google Photos videos.
<abliss>
There is no cloud, just someone else's computer...
<ocdtr_web>
There's some good lawsuit material in here. Without even specifying what video... like, if a single affected user has a single video in their account that's sensitive/adult content, they should sue.
<ocdtr_web>
The best part is how the letter ends that if you have further questions you should "contact Google Support". That's the comedy gold right there.
<TimMc>
amazing
<abliss>
pretty sure they all clicked through some pretty airtight EULAs that forbid suing for this exact thing. which is not to say google won't pay them a quickie settlement anyway.
<abliss>
I'd love to see the postmortem. At a wild guess, based on the fact that only videos and not photos were leaked, I wonder if they are still using some ancient+janky streaming tech leftover from the integration of the youtube acquisition into the picasa acquisition
<ocdtr_web>
I'd bet a dollar on some part of the export process piping through Google+ too.
<ocdtr_web>
My favorite recent bit about how Google products are glommed on top of old, dead Google products, was that Google Cloud Print depends on Google Talk. Not Hangouts. Talk.
<TimMc>
Coral reef.
<kentonv>
wow looks like that blog post was popular overnight
<ocdtr_web>
Sandstorm is still apparently interesting.
<ocdtr_web>
Also, if you upload your private videos to Sandstorm, Google can't sent them to random other users.
<ocdtr_web>
\o/
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<kentonv>
the US postal service forwarded me a letter that was originally addressed to a random person in Mountain View, where I have never lived.
<ocdtr_web>
I bet you also lost a letter that didn't get forwarded properly too.
<TimMc>
Conservation of mass. :-P
<ocdtr_web>
Or an off by one error. :P
<abliss>
wait, did Google Photos take over the physical mail delivery in mountain view too? rimshot
<TimMc>
ocdtr_web: A local grocery store where I had placed a bulk order said that my pecans didn't come in, and instead they got a box of shoes. I'm imagining a terrible screwup at UPS where each box in line got the address label for the previous box.
<ocdtr_web>
One thing we learned from HN today is that six years into the project, people still think Darude jokes are original and funny.
<ocdtr_web>
I was tempted to respond to someone with a link to someone making the exact same joke over five years ago in an HN comment.
<ill_logic>
haha
<ill_logic>
Maybe we should just add something about it to the site and move on.
<kentonv>
someone sent me a web site PR once to make it so when you type the Konomi code on your keyboard, it plays Darude Sandstorm. Ughhhh.
<ocdtr_web>
I thought it was funny in 2015. I think it's okay to just call a joke old by 2020.
<ill_logic>
<ocdtr_web "Holy crud, there went Google's f"> "Apologize for the inconvenience" it's like they're trying to make us angry. Nobody believes this.
<kentonv>
if they'd actually deployed the fine-grained encryption and authentication stuff that I helped build at Google, this bug probably would not have been possible.
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<CaptainCalliope>
Are there any analytics or access logs on the blog? I'm curious about how much traffic comes on hackernews days.
<ocdtr_web>
It used to have Google Analytics but it was removed in 2018.
<kentonv>
cloudflare provides analytics
<kentonv>
we went from ~200 unique visitors per hour up to ~6,000 while it was #1 on HN
<kentonv>
and ~2,000 requests per hour before to ~100,000 per hour while #1 on HN
<ocdtr_web>
That's pretty nice.
<ocdtr_web>
(Also probably a good day to have a static web page behind Cloudflare.)
<kentonv>
the one nginx server could probably handle the traffic on its own, but it's definitely nice to have edge caching for speed and bandwidth reasons.
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<ill_logic>
initdb on sandstorm required me to explicitly specify UTF8 encoding; I believe I didn't need to on my dev environment
<ill_logic>
I found this out because I tried creating a new database with explicit UTF8 encoding and it stopped me on Sandstorm because it didn't match the template database's encoding.
<ill_logic>
(I didn't get this error for the dev environment, so I assume that the template there is UTF8, but I didn't explicitly check. If it's worth taking the time I can try it again and check.)
<ill_logic>
I'm just wondering if this comes as a surprise, and if it means there may be other problems? It looks like it's tied to locale.
<ill_logic>
Setting it explicitly seems to have gotten around the problem for now.
<ill_logic>
Actually it says it's setting the database to the locale "C". It was "as such" defaulting to ASCII before I explicitly told it to use UTF8.
<isd>
I think I'd like to put ekam/build stuff on the agenda for tonight. It seems like on of those things where people have voiced opinions and we haven't really sat down and come to any decisions based on those murmuringss
<abliss>
I'm very curious to know who here besides Ian Denhardt has successfully built sandstorm repo?
<isd>
Put a bullet point on the agenda
<isd>
But yeah, I'd also like to know that.
<isd>
(as well as who has tried and failed...)
<ocdtr_web>
I am not sure I've ever wanted to do something that absolutely required I build Sandstorm to fiddle with it. As I don't really test HTML PRs and that's about as deep into the platform as I've gotten...
<ocdtr_web>
I won't be there tonight but it'd be good to talk about the HN comments and where that should lead some of our roadmap priorities.
<isd>
I really want to un-bundle some of our dependencies
<isd>
I'm realizing to test the solution I've written for #3027, I'm going to need to integrate node-capnp into the new test app. We've already got some funky logic in sandstorm itself to let us use a node-capnp built in-tree, and I'm not looking forward to trying to extend that. And it feels like not a good use of time.
<kentonv>
isd, the problem with unbundled dependencies is that it becomes very hard to make cross-cutting changes. You tend to have to make a complete change to your dependency and release it before you can test if it actually works to solve whatever problem you wanted to solve in the dependent.
<kentonv>
I like to be able to develop both sides together.
<isd>
I appreciate that, but capnproto hasn't changed much recently. I wouldn't suggest this if its development were still largely driven by the needs of sandstorm, but at this point sandstorm should work against stable and we're not needing changes to it frequently (if at all).
<isd>
Longer term I'd also like to have a setup where we can build with nix, and I think that will also make it easier to swap in a dependency for the purposes of developing them together.
<kentonv>
I don't think I agree that sandstorm and capnp are decoupled. It depends on what part you're working on. When rewriting the HTTP layer I definitely had to make KJ changes.
<isd>
I do have some ideas about how to get the best of both worlds using nix, though last time I experimented I got stuck packaging ekam. Maybe I'll experiment some more.
<isd>
I think we should definitely try to get an up to date version of node-capnp up on npm though, so apps can use it without having to deal with the same stuff.
<kentonv>
yes... though that requires figuring out some other strange error where everything works great until the package is published publicly and then it won't build. :(
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<isd>
Is there a description of said error somewhere?
<kentonv>
happy to give you publishing rights if you want to try to figure it out...
<isd>
I can take a whack at it.
<isd>
I probably need to sign up for an npm account or something.
<kentonv>
yep
<isd>
Ug, hitting some error trying to sign up ("That word is not allowed" -- it's a randomly generated password that meets their stated requirements though). I'll let you know when I've got it sorted out.