<prpplague> implr: yea, i thought about that, just worry about the details of getting on the train
<prpplague> implr: WAW is $1700
<cr1901_modern> pie_: I don't think your grounded socket is working then :P; instead of being at constant potential like it's supposed to, your chassis gnd is being referenced to neutral plus noise (I think).
<prpplague> implr: 18 hours
<cr1901_modern> I'd be curious to see multimeter measurements tho :P
<implr> that's not that bad
<implr> I'm in SF right now and I'll be returning in a week, SFO-FRA-WAW, 11h + 4h layover + 1.5h
<prpplague> implr / kc8apf it was more of a mental exercise in checking the routes
<kc8apf> ah, that was the flight. SFO->FRA->GDN
<kc8apf> 15h or so
<implr> direct flights from west coast to anywhere in Poland are quite rare and/or expensive
<kc8apf> need to buy those tickets
<pie_> cr1901_modern, yeah im suspicious now
<pie_> sigh
<q3k> yeah, flying into GDN isn't worth it unless you're already in mainland europe
<q3k> WAW is much better connected
<q3k> but really, land in KAT or WAW or KRK or GDN, doesn't matter, take the train
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<rqou> extremely weird and random question: anybody here (whitequark?) know what the decomposition temperature of PEDOT:PSS is?
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<cr1901_modern> Miyu: (2:05:04 PM) ***Miyu has painful memories of compiling code on RPi systems
<cr1901_modern> I once compiled gcc on RPi 1 Model A w/ 256MB of memory. It took 3 days (thanks to it going to swap).
<Miyu> heh :D
<Miyu> yeah, I was just compiling a small service the last time (took ~5-10 seconds on my 2013-era i7 laptop), and it was taking ~1+ minute
<cr1901_modern> I couldn't use distcc for this because the GNU C++ ABI changed between the stock RPi compiler and the cross-compiler I had
<Miyu> fun :)
<cr1901_modern> So, yes I very much sympathize w/ your pain :)
<Miyu> :D
<Miyu> yeah, I'd definitely try the cross-compiling route next time
<Miyu> I was also confident/stupid enough to think that I could do the debugging on the device
<Miyu> made for very long and painful debug/develop/compile/test cycles
<Miyu> ended up writing a simple integration test instead
<Miyu> mocking up the I2C device and GPIO
<qu1j0t3> :D
<cr1901_modern> Sounds like a blast (and by blast I mean not)
<Miyu> yup
<Miyu> though it did make me love integration tests even more :)
<Miyu> that's the project in question
<Miyu> pretty simple GPIO mock, just using timers to simulate the switches being triggered
* cr1901_modern spent about 30 seconds looking for wiringPi
<Miyu> :)
<cr1901_modern> At least on Net, there's ioctls for accessing peripherals. In practice, all RPi GPIO I've seen accesses /dev/mem directly
* Miyu heads off to board her plane :)
* Miyu nods
<cr1901_modern> Cool have fun
<Miyu> thanks :)
<Miyu> flying SEA to FRA
<Miyu> 10.5 hours :D
<Miyu> o/~
<cr1901_modern> ouch
<rqou> everybody is having bad experiences with planes these few weeks wtf
<rqou> is this just travel season?
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<azonenberg_work> wait, miyu was in SEA?
<azonenberg_work> first i heard, lol
<rqou> do you know them irl or something?
<rqou> hey azonenberg_work you work with weird materials right? do you know anything about PEDOT:PSS?
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<azonenberg_work> We've known each other on IRC for... quite a few years
<azonenberg_work> Never managed to be in the same place in meatspace
<rqou> yeah, meatspace is hard
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<rqou> azonenberg_work: what is part 90?
<azonenberg_work> rqou: private licensed land mobile
<azonenberg_work> Although most part 90 radios are able to work on the 2m amateur band too
<azonenberg_work> part 90 VHF radios*
<rqou> does that include police/public safety?
<azonenberg_work> Yes
<azonenberg_work> Which is my intended use (I want one radio that can run on both the licensed SAR channel and the local ham repeaters)
<rqou> ah ok
<rqou> hmm, is that actually allowed?
<azonenberg_work> You can run basically any radio on amateur bands
<azonenberg_work> there's no part 97 equipment certification needed
<azonenberg_work> So if the radio is certified for the licensed band you run it on, and you have a ham license, you're golden
<rqou> i do know a chinese company tried to pull a fast one on the FCC and make a ham+GMRS radio
<azonenberg_work> Yes, which really annoys me re not being allowed
<rqou> which the FCC subsequently caught and revoked
<azonenberg_work> If i have the necessary licenses i should be good to go
<rqou> so why is ham+part 90 ok?
<azonenberg_work> Well, GMRS has a rule that you cannot have a VFO
<azonenberg_work> Most part 90 stuff does too, I think? But if you use a factory programming cable to load one specific amateur frequency into a part 90 radio
<rqou> which this chinese radio doesn't, if you boot into the gmrs mode
<azonenberg_work> it still doesnt have a VFO
<azonenberg_work> all i know is that running part 90 radios on ham frequencies is common practice and legal
<rqou> of course
<azonenberg_work> And running a ham-only radio on part 90 frequencies, even if you are a licensed user of the band, is not legal
<rqou> yeah, dumb
<azonenberg_work> Anyway it needs to be totally weatherproof (duh), and have a headset able to be worn under a bike helmet or rescue helmet
<rqou> (inb4 the germans jump in and tell us nothing is allowed there :P )
<azonenberg_work> I'm trying to move away from shoulder mics because they tend to get water clogged up in them
<azonenberg_work> even if waterproof (meaning, no damage when wet) the signal can be unintelligible
<azonenberg_work> So i wanted something i could put under a hood to keep dry
<azonenberg_work> and then a chest or ear mounted PTT or something
<rqou> makes sense
<rqou> FCC type approval is such a huge pain in the ass
<azonenberg_work> Yes, it is
<rqou> especially in the current era of "everything is (or should be) an sdr"
<azonenberg_work> Yeah
<azonenberg_work> i have a GMRS license, a ham license, and am a member of an organization with a part 90 license
<azonenberg_work> Why can i not get one radio that (legally) can be used on all those bands?
<balrog> azonenberg_work: because most people don't have all those licenses
<rqou> um, afaik this is actually quite common?
<azonenberg_work> balrog: yes, but?
<azonenberg_work> What is that supposed to mean
<rqou> there's a decent amount of azonenberg-types who do SAR and radios
<balrog> rqou: they FCC doesn't care about that "edge case" (to them)
<azonenberg_work> balrog: The point is, the FCC seems to have a very whitelist-oriented policy when it comes to what hardware is legal
<balrog> azonenberg_work: yes
<azonenberg_work> As opposed to simply saying, whatever hits the antenna has to comply with the rules of the license/band you are transmitting under
<azonenberg_work> And how that signal was generated is irrelevant
<rqou> i mean, the ham rules work like that
<azonenberg_work> Exactly
<rqou> (other than weird archaic classifications of phone/RTTY/etc.)
<azonenberg_work> I'd even be OK with a rule that says that you cannot market such a multi-band radio as anything other than a ham radio
<azonenberg_work> But that, if you have a ham license and buy said radio, you can legally transmit on any band you have permission to transmit on
<azonenberg_work> within power/modulation restrictions obviously
<rqou> the problem with that nowadays is called "China" :P
<azonenberg_work> well i mean baofeng exists
<azonenberg_work> and flies in the face of all these rules
<rqou> although stupid shit from China already happens, so idk
<azonenberg_work> I'm not asking for such devices to exist
<rqou> um.. baofeng is part 15 certified?
<azonenberg_work> i'm asking for them to be legal to use :p
<rqou> which is all they technically need to do?
<azonenberg_work> i believe some baofeng models could transmit on FRS frequencies
<azonenberg_work> Which is one of the things that got them in trouble
<rqou> oh yeah they can
<azonenberg_work> since it had a VFO and removable antenna
<rqou> but they don't market as a FRS radio?
<balrog> azonenberg_work: isn't it legal for a radio to be able to have a VFO or channels, but require software and programming cable to switch between them?
<azonenberg_work> balrog: Dont know
<azonenberg_work> rqou: doesnt matter if they market it as such
<azonenberg_work> aiui its supposed to be *incapable* of transmitting on frs
<rqou> i don't think so?
<rqou> afaik lots of ham equipment can transmit outside the proper bands
<rqou> it's up to you not to do that
<azonenberg_work> I dont remember the details, other than that the FCC slapped them with some fines over something
<rqou> never heard about that
<rqou> i know a chinese company did try to pull a fast one on the fcc by sending the same radio through the approval process twice, once for gmrs and once as just a receiver that had a VFO
<rqou> they then put both fcc ids on the radio
<rqou> the fcc noticed and was not amused
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<rqou> azonenberg_work: is there an easy way to draw a graphic shape in kicad that is a rectangle with multiple circles punched out?
<azonenberg_work> rqou: hmmm
<azonenberg_work> Not that i know of
<gruetzkopf> i have stuff in the works to make the motorola jedi family illegal ;)
<gruetzkopf> (at least the bigger models with a full keyboard)
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<lain> lol I have a baofeng uv-5r
<cr1901_modern> lain: If I ever didn't drag my feet w/ using my license, that would be also what I get
<lain> we got it to monitor the ferry around here, since they use simple NFM walkies in a band the uv-5r supports, but I intend to get my ham license and use it for that as well
<lain> from our testing, the transmit is clean. it seems some of the uv-5r's have faulty tx filters and just spew harmonics, but ours does not, thankfully
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<dmaarouf> Hi, anyone know where I can find a copy of RapidWright?
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<Lord_Nightmare> lain: i have a baofeng uv-5r as well. how would i be able to tell if it is one of the faulty ones?
<Lord_Nightmare> is it a specific firmware range?
<lain> Lord_Nightmare: I'm honestly not sure other than just testing it. the sense I got from watching youtube videos of people testing it was that some of the units just have faulty filters somehow (manufacturing defect?)
<Lord_Nightmare> ah. and my brother with his nice radio rig is halfway across the country, so i can't easily check. drat.
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<pie_> dunno if repost <rappet> Dat dead bug soldering: https://twitter.com/phjbosch/status/1030163697224876034?s=19
<pie_> Guys, good or dumb idea: application users should get to have history trees instead of just undo/redo
<pie_> (and merging too)
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<whitequark> awygle: wtf
<whitequark> it's very good that we still haven't fabbed revb and revc
<whitequark> because i think i'm observing a signal integrity issue clearly unrelated to fxma
<whitequark> awygle: any chance i could interest you in writing an usb benchmark/stresstest applet? it's been on my list for a while but i'm kind of swamped
<whitequark> thinking of generating patterns for maximum crosstalk here mostly
<whitequark> tl;dr i filled the low 2 bits of rgb grabber pixel samples with an up counter and all hell broke loose
<whitequark> yep and if I fill the almost-high 2 bits then all hell breaks loose -even worse-
<whitequark> which makes zero sense whatsoever from pure digital logic perspective
<whitequark> hm, thaaat is really interesting
<whitequark> i have a synchronous reset here and one register without synchronous reset. resetless..
<whitequark> actually, two.
<whitequark> anyway, when i added back reset to it, this nastiness stopped. i wonder if everything's going to work better if i remove the second too.
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<whitequark> I wonder if there's something about resets I don't know about
<whitequark> these appear to be normal synchronous resets, why the hell don't they work properl
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<azonenberg_work> whitequark: if a glasgow can make its way to my lab once i'm set up
<azonenberg_work> My scope might be fast enough to debug some of that?
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<kc8apf> azonenberg_work: cr123a was a pretty difficult requirement for radios. Vertex Standard (now Motorola *sigh) and Icom both have part 90 radios with IP57 or IP67 with behind-the-head earpieces, etc. They've all moved to Li-ion batteries or AAs as a fallback
<azonenberg_work> Yes
<azonenberg_work> kc8apf: I'm wondering how difficult 3d printing / machining a custom cr123a battery pack would be
<azonenberg_work> With the same voltage as the li-ion pack
<kc8apf> most of these have 7.5V +/- 20% input jacks for charging
<whitequark> azonenberg_work: yeah sure, i imagine at least awygle's one is already not that far
<whitequark> but this is really puzzling
<whitequark> this entire design is a SINGLE clock domain and it passes timing by a margin of 1/3
<azonenberg_work> kc8apf: Hmmm, so you think just building a primary cell pack with a cord to feed into it
<azonenberg_work> that would actually work nicely, keep the cr123s in my backpack
<azonenberg_work> and use it to top off the li-ion pack overnight if we're out long enough to drain the primary battery (which will easily last a single day of operations)
<kc8apf> azonenberg_work: yup. Need to check that they haven't moved away from separate charging plugs. That was a trend for a while.
<azonenberg_work> That would let me keep the li-ion pack as the primary power source since its rechargeable, and since >90% of our missions are <24 hours that would let me cut battery costs
<kc8apf> even buying the AA adapter and running a cable out would work
<azonenberg_work> While still having a single type of spare battery for everything but the GPS (which still runs on AAs, but only two of them so 4 batteries is 2 changes which will easily last through a 48h mission)
<azonenberg_work> kc8apf: no, because that would require that i have cables on me while on the move
<awygle> whitequark: hm, odd. fully synchronous resets on a free-running clock?
<kc8apf> ah, true
<azonenberg_work> I'm ok with a primary cell charger while i'm sleeping
<azonenberg_work> and a li-ion pack on the radio itself
<azonenberg_work> But i dont want to have two batteries when i'm on the trail
<azonenberg_work> or worse yet, off trial
<azonenberg_work> cords get snagged on things
<azonenberg_work> kc8apf: and i'm actually eyeing a really nice looking Kenwood
<whitequark> awygle: the clock is sourced from cy7c
<azonenberg_work> the NX-5200, it has a nice big LCD on it so i can finally move away from 6 character segmented channel names
<azonenberg_work> As well as P25 and NXDN digital capability, not that i need that now but nice to futureproof
<whitequark> hmmm I do have a suspect
<azonenberg_work> if the unit goes digital eventually
<whitequark> when I wrote the FX2 interfacing code I didn't add any synchronizers toit
<whitequark> because I never managed to get it to pass timing *and* function at all with arachne
<azonenberg_work> whitequark: welp
<awygle> oh, yeah, that'd do it probably
<whitequark> so I imagine nextpnr just places all that logic however it likes and it gets placed in fun ways from bitstream to bitstream
<azonenberg_work> kc8apf: and the radio is actually IP68 rated (1 meter submersion for 2 hours)
<whitequark> (or arachne for that matter)
<kc8apf> azonenberg_work: yeah, that's a nice radio
<azonenberg_work> whitequark: cross clock support is one thing i really want to see in the open tools
<kc8apf> I tend to go with Yaesu personally
<azonenberg_work> kc8apf: yeah i own a vx-6r
<azonenberg_work> But its not part 90
<whitequark> azonenberg_work: i want to constrain phase of a parallel bus
<whitequark> seems related
<whitequark> also, I now extremely see why parallel buses died
<kc8apf> I have an vx-8r. They sold the 8r as a vertex standard model as well.
<azonenberg_work> Lol
<azonenberg_work> :p
<azonenberg_work> whitequark: interesting, can you cheat by doing placement constraints and hoping for the best?
<kc8apf> so it can be modified to be part 90
<whitequark> azonenberg_work: well right now I cheat by not adding synchronizers
<azonenberg_work> Lol
<whitequark> it almost completely works almost all of the time. simpler designs just never break
<azonenberg_work> i meant by having synchronizers and LOCing them to adjacent slices
<whitequark> whereas if I add registers the whole design just falls apart
<awygle> wait how bad can your phase difference actually be? isn't it a 48 MHz bus or something?
<azonenberg_work> then hoping the routes are direct
<whitequark> or at least did before
<azonenberg_work> Lol
<azonenberg_work> awygle: you underestimate how bad paths can be if the toolchain isnt optimizing
<azonenberg_work> :p
<whitequark> awygle: 30 MHz
<whitequark> Up5K never actually clears 48
<awygle> does ice40 have a register in the IOB?
<kc8apf> not exactly legal but capable
<whitequark> awygle: yes
<awygle> err, the pad, whatever the right term is
<whitequark> I tried using that too
<azonenberg_work> kc8apf: yeah i want something actually legal
<whitequark> everything also broke
<awygle> is the data edge == the clock edge?
<whitequark> uhhhhhhh
<whitequark> take a look at the diagrams in the cypress manual.
<awygle> yeah ok
<whitequark> they have some profoundly weird s/h timings
<whitequark> including in one case a setup timing slightly longer than clock period
<whitequark> i'm not actually sure how that even works
<azonenberg_work> kc8apf: the vx-459 looks like the only vertex standard submersible radio left post motorola merger
<kc8apf> sadly
<awygle> "slave fifo synchronous write"?
<whitequark> in fx2.py i summarized them athough i could have mangled some detail i couldn't understand
<azonenberg_work> and i like the display on that kenwood better
<whitequark> yes
<awygle> hm ok, so "no", clock lags data by 9.2ns. love that 0ns hold time though wow
<whitequark> and clock lags write strobe by 18ns
<whitequark> and read strobe by 10ns
<whitequark> like what??
<whitequark> what the hell kinda silicon do you have
<whitequark> awygle: i also have a problem that i can't just add registers
<whitequark> i have to change logic pretty severely
<whitequark> because i have to monitor FIFO fullness
<whitequark> and then there's FIFOADR 25ns setup time
<awygle> yes, that is very weird. but synchronization shouldn't be a problem, if everything's clocked on IFCLK and the first thing the data hits are the IOB registers, i don't see how you'd even need synchronizers unless the ice40 setup time is >9.2ns
<whitequark> so for one you can see an expression in fx2.py i had to rewrite
<whitequark> to make a combinatorial feedback path shorter
<whitequark> or it wouldn't clear timings
<awygle> hm ok. i can't dive into this at the level it needs right now (at work). i will try and look into it this weekend but i'm still unpacking so no promises unfortunately
<whitequark> yup sure
<azonenberg_work> So 4x cr123 stuck to the back of that
<azonenberg_work> Leave it in the base-camp bag when not staying out overnight
<azonenberg_work> yeah, i could see that working
<azonenberg_work> then maybe a comparator and an led or two for battery metering
<azonenberg_work> Downside is it would be harder to carry around
<azonenberg_work> What about https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Charger-Adapter-TK2180K2-TK3180K2/dp/B079HMGSRT plus a cr123 pack? looks a lot smaller and lighter
<azonenberg_work> although that looks like a knockoff so idk
<azonenberg_work> It looks like if you don't mind a slower charge (overnight) you can also just stick a wallwart (or wallwart-lookalike cr123 pack) right into the barrel jack on the radio
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<azonenberg_work> actually no there is no barrel jack
<azonenberg_work> the official "wallwart" charger looks just like that but with kenwood branding
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<rqou> ugh friday means tons of h. sapiens larvae in the cafeteria for lunch
<jn__> bring-your-kid-to-work day?
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<rqou> nah, just Friday in general
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<rqou> despite all the "zomg millennials aren't producing enough crotchspawn" articles there are a ton of people with kids here
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<qu1j0t3> probably varies by socioeconomic bracket
<rqou> soooo, i started following some people on birbsite that I met at the dcfurs party, aaaaaand now i understand why "likes are now florps/stochastic retweets" annoys people
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<azonenberg_work> lol
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<pie_> crotchspawn
<pie_> lmao god that sounds horrible
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<azonenberg_work> rqou: getting spammed with random furry pr0n?
<qu1j0t3> pie_: it's meant to
<pie_> random, https://www.lawfareblog.com/public-utilitys-recording-home-energy-consumption-every-15-minutes-search-seventh-circuit-rules "But Kyllo itself suggests that the use of technology is not a search when the technology is both widely available and routinely used by the general public." idk that sounds pretty fucked up for some reason
<rqou> azonenberg_work: and the thing is, i can totally understand why nobody at Twitter sees this as a problem
<pie_> ugh ill read the rest of this article, popped up from nowhere and distracted me
<rqou> if your feed is entirely techbros you won't have this problem
<azonenberg_work> rqou: lol
<azonenberg_work> but if you add some furries to the mix...
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<pie_> gotta stay on your toes
<zkms> or anime-likers, it also works with that
<rqou> for some reason all the anime likers i follow on birbsite are ace so this isn't a problem
<azonenberg_work> rqou: so no tiddies in the middle of your feed when you're at work?
<rqou> only furry tiddies :P
<azonenberg_work> Well what did you expect when you followed a bunch of furries
<qu1j0t3> sounds ... intentional
<rqou> hey, furries tend to be good engineers
<rqou> e.g. the dcfurs badge is quite well engineered
<azonenberg_work> i'd say the opposite
<azonenberg_work> engineers tend to be furries
<awygle> which came first, the furry or the mac
<awygle> (mac is not a good end to that joke but i wanted it to be one syllable)
<rqou> lol
<awygle> nothing annoys me more than people on the internet trying to write e.g. limericks and getting the number of syllables wrong
<pie_> wait is vore a thing because we eat animals
<rqou> azonenberg_work: "byuu syndrome" -- trans furry adhd asd software engineer
<pie_> rqou, wat
<rqou> they made this joke on birbsite a while ago
<awygle> lol those three messages in a row make a good #ircnocontext
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<pie_> man how do people learn this stuff https://twitter.com/byuu_san/status/1030044095132119040
<awygle> oh what, i'm not following byuu? whoops
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<gruetzkopf> do my old motorola GP-300 and GP1200 (MT(S) 2000/2100?) count as part 90 radios?
<gruetzkopf> especially the 5-tone models are great (enter out-of-band frequency in programming software, hold shift while pressing enter, done)
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<pointfree> This PIC24 CTMU "Charge-TIme Measurement Unit" looks like what I need to measure picoseconds for TDR. It would be nice if a PSoC had something like it.
<pointfree> The CTMU is often used for capacitive touch, so maybe the PSoC capsense can do some of what the CTMU does. Hm.
<azonenberg_work> pointfree: how are you doing TDR with charge time measurement?
<azonenberg_work> it might work for a limited case looking for one peak or something
<pointfree> azonenberg_work: I'm just exploring options right now. Microchip has some appnotes on using the PIC's CTMU for TDR.
<azonenberg_work> interesting
<azonenberg_work> I mean it really depends on what you want to measure
<azonenberg_work> how preciselyt
<azonenberg_work> how fast
<azonenberg_work> single ended or differential
<azonenberg_work> etc
<azonenberg_work> For example if its cat5 or 100 ohm differential cable in general, a lot of ethernet PHYs have a basic tdr built in
<azonenberg_work> ksz9031 is somewhat limited in performance but acording to datasheet does work
<azonenberg_work> the dp83867 seems to have a much more capable one but i havent tried using it yet
<azonenberg_work> (up to 4 peaks with fairly detailed height and position)
<pointfree> azonenberg_work: I'm also thinking about using an ECL gate or a really fast 30GHz GaAs MESFET to effectively measure race conditions.
<azonenberg_work> fast comparator
<azonenberg_work> see my blog
<pointfree> azonenberg_work: you did something like this for io characterization with starshipraider?
<kc8apf> azonenberg_work: there's a few variants of the KSC-32 charger. The one I linked is bulk and designed for automotive use. I'd be worried about the radio falling out of the desktop charger and having a dead battery pack in the morning.
<kc8apf> Easy to fix with a few bungie cords
<azonenberg_work> kc8apf: my concern was, if we go deep
<azonenberg_work> i have to tote the thing around in my pack
<azonenberg_work> so minimizing mass and volume is important
<azonenberg_work> pointfree: no but i built a tdr
<azonenberg_work> then i made a sampling oscilloscope on the same architecture and used it for starshipraider