<cr1901_modern>
(I wonder how long it would've taken to do Phong lighting in the 70s. Pretty amazing that model was conceived back then w/ so little CPU power.)
<TD-Linux>
>Obviously, this required special CRT monitors that could handle both raster scan and calligraphic modes every frame.
<TD-Linux>
wut
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<fseidel>
TD-Linux: I think the latter are vector graphics
<fseidel>
must have been one weird-ass monitor
<TD-Linux>
yeah I wonder how the deflection circuitry worked (I'm building a "custom" crt monitor)
<TD-Linux>
magnetic deflection is actually pretty hard because of the inductance and the resulting enormous energy loss if you were to drive it linearly
<fseidel>
I assume it would probably be something like a less shitty vectrex
<fseidel>
give the CPU access to integrators as memory mapped peripherals
<fseidel>
tell them the integration velocity and time
<fseidel>
and wait
<fseidel>
doing curves on the vectrex is hell because you have to cycle count writes to the integrators to give new integration velocities, but on a nicer system like this you could probably have logic to automate that
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<TD-Linux>
yeah the vectrex has special low inductance windings. 0.45mH
<fseidel>
huh, I never knew the windings were special, I was under the impression everything minus the integrators was a bog standard samsung B/W CRT
<TD-Linux>
even then I think it's pretty slow. I would bet it is actually too slow for a normal raster display
<fseidel>
it is capable of raster drawing, but confined to a small region of the screen. You can get better results if you store every other row of your bitmap in reverse so you don't have to retrace to the left every line
<TD-Linux>
fseidel, horizontal deflection on crts especically is pretty crazy. you get peak voltages up to 1500V to bring it back to the next line because the inductance is so high.
<TD-Linux>
they have a circuit that recovers the energy so they aren't literally burning 3 kilowatts during retrace
<fseidel>
huh, I never realized they had that
<fseidel>
TIL
<TD-Linux>
I didn't either. I was originally going to just drive the yoke with a class D amp, then had to upgrade it to using GaNfets, then realized that this was crazy and impossible even with modern silicon
<cr1901_modern>
Aren't the same CRTs used for vector and raster?
<azonenberg_work>
i was invited to come and am thinking about it, just need to figure out scheduling
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<sorear>
I’m toying with it. Unsure I have much to add at my level
<AndresNavarro>
I would like to, but pretty far from my neck of the woods... :(
<cr1901_modern>
I was invited to it as well, but making a trip to Portland would be difficult
<cr1901_modern>
I don't do that well on far trips
<sorear>
It’s closer than FOSDEM was
<cr1901_modern>
sorear: Far in my case means "more than a day's trip in car/train away"
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<azonenberg_work>
Yeah its a ~3 hour train ride from seattle
<azonenberg_work>
So i'm quite close
<cr1901_modern>
It's like a 3 day train ride for me lmao
<azonenberg_work>
lol yeah
<azonenberg_work>
thats a bit of a difference
<azonenberg_work>
i could also fly in an hour
<azonenberg_work>
but then i hav eto go through the TSA line and everything
<azonenberg_work>
and it doesnt save much time
<azonenberg_work>
That and, a sardine-class seat on Delta with a view of the inside of a cloud is about the same price as a business-class seat on Amtrak with scenic views of the ground
<cr1901_modern>
Hah
<cr1901_modern>
I would definitely trade a plane for train
<cr1901_modern>
Though it's still a pity global warming's gonna render air travel impossible in our lifetimes :(
<whitequark>
no it's not
<whitequark>
fischer tropsch is a thing
<cr1901_modern>
The hell is that?
* cr1901_modern
googles
<whitequark>
a way to make jet fuel out of electricity, basically
<whitequark>
you can absolutely make air travel carbon neutral, we knew how to do that since, uh, 1930s?
<whitequark>
germans were using it for their tanks cuz they had no accessible oil
<cr1901_modern>
... huh
<TD-Linux>
us nuclear aircraft carriers are adding it
<azonenberg_work>
TD-Linux: oh?
<whitequark>
you only need oil to cross something like... $800 per barrel iirc
<whitequark>
and then f-t becomes more economical
<azonenberg_work>
What's the goal, to make JP-8 without sending a ship out to restock?
<azonenberg_work>
just suck in CO2 and whatever from the atmosphere and use the nuke power to run the plant?
<azonenberg_work>
whitequark: the problem is that as long as oil is cheaper than that people will keep burning fossil fuels and making the problems worse :p
<whitequark>
it runs on carbon monoxide and hydrogen, not CO2
<azonenberg_work>
ah CO, not CO2 - is there a good way to make CO from atmosphere?
<whitequark>
i have no idea what aircraft carriers do and why
<azonenberg_work>
i assume you can get H2 from electrolyzing water
<whitequark>
but normally you use biomass
<TD-Linux>
azonenberg, yes. in this case they pull it from seawater not atmosphere
<whitequark>
here you go
<whitequark>
btw f-t itself is exothermic
<whitequark>
oh
<whitequark>
you can also use reverse water gas shift reaction
<whitequark>
yeah, looks like that's how people do F-T feedstock if not from biomass
<whitequark>
you can also e.g. take plastics you don't need and pyrolyze them
<whitequark>
of course, this wouldn't be very cheap, which is why i think we should expropriate all of the DoD funds and use them for F-T for civilian air travel instead. much more worthy use
<whitequark>
(and stop subsidizing cars)
<TD-Linux>
yes please
<cr1901_modern>
Public transportation here is pretty damn good, but I still can't quite use it do to stuff like buy groceries :/
<cr1901_modern>
perishables would spoil by the time I walk the rest of the way
<TD-Linux>
the patent I can find on the navy one seems to use an ion membrane to produce H2 and CO2
<TD-Linux>
it's unspecified where they go from there but it looks like a H2 + CO2 with a cobalt catalyst can produce methane, and you can do the rest of f-t from there
<TD-Linux>
cr1901_modern, electric car is a good compromise if you have the $
<whitequark>
cr1901_modern does not have the $.
<TD-Linux>
yeah that's mostly a matter of waiting for the used market to saturate I think
<TD-Linux>
(if you can tolerate lower range)
<whitequark>
i suspect for things like groceries, delivery would be a good option economically, because you could save a lot of fuel that way
<whitequark>
of course amazon has it, and of course it involves some dumbass robots *and* is exploitative
<azonenberg_work>
whitequark: yeah my eventual goal is to be a 3 "vehicle" family
<TD-Linux>
yeah it is. I use grocery delivery services here. they have an option for flexible delivery times so that they can do an optimal route
<azonenberg_work>
my bicycle for going to work and transporting just me / minimal cargo short distances around town
<whitequark>
god i can't imagine owning one car much less three, that's just absurd
<whitequark>
oh, i see
<azonenberg_work>
a small electric car replacing the wife's current vehicle for grocery shopping, going to doctor appointments that are too far to bike to, vacation travel, whatever
<cr1901_modern>
whitequark: Citation needed, but delivery, on the average, is actually worse for the environment than using your own car. This is because people who get delivery on average end up using the time they save to go out and do other things (and burn more emissions). THAT BEING SAID... >>
<TD-Linux>
if you can deal with the low range, used leafs are $6k now
<cr1901_modern>
It would be more efficient for me on average
<cr1901_modern>
(hooray Jevon's Paradox)
<whitequark>
cr1901_modern: that's an absurd conclusion
<azonenberg_work>
and then a pickup truck, SUV, or similar (probably will have to be fuel burning for the near term, i dont think electric tech is at that point yet) for off-road activities like SAR or transporting bulky/heavy goods like furniture
<cr1901_modern>
whitequark: It's not _my_ conclusion, it's from a paper I read
<cr1901_modern>
I'll see if I can find it
<whitequark>
that doesn't make it any less absurd
<azonenberg_work>
whitequark: the idea being that said vehicle would be used a few times a month but not waste much fuel sitting around idle
<azonenberg_work>
however given that it would be used for emergency response, it does need to be available 24/7 so renting a truck just to transport something isnt viable
<whitequark>
right, that level of availability is probably one thing that'd make me own a car
<whitequark>
everything else it makes far more sense to use taxis
<azonenberg_work>
Having an efficient electric car makes sense on top of that, i think, because the heavy vehicle would be super inefficient fuel wise
<azonenberg_work>
and 99% of our driving wouldnt need it
<azonenberg_work>
Not saying this will happen, but i think it would be the ideal if i had the budget
<TD-Linux>
(btw you don't really need to shop for "efficiency" for electric cars, they are all good enough it doesn't really matter)
<azonenberg_work>
I meant efficient as in "not a gas guzzler"
<TD-Linux>
speaking of electric pickups
<cr1901_modern>
whitequark: I can't find the paper right now. I don't think the conclusion is absurd because it's an application of Jevons Paradox, which has been seen time and again historically
<whitequark>
i don't see how that applies
<TD-Linux>
... now I can't find the paper I want
<TD-Linux>
either :^)
<whitequark>
jevons paradox applies when you have elastic demand
<whitequark>
like you make it cheaper to mine copper, and suddenly people find new uses for copper
<cr1901_modern>
Making a resource more efficient- in this case, removing greenhouse gases from having to use your car to drive to the store- increases the amount of resource that is used- person using their car to do _other_ things while the truck is out delivering groceries.
<whitequark>
a car is not a resource.
<whitequark>
and it's not even the same car.
<whitequark>
you can't make this argument using jevons paradox because you are taking it completely out of scope