00:18 <cr1901_modern> ej5: I'm surprised SPICE/Gummel Poon doesn't account for this

00:19 <cr1901_modern> re: https://twitter.com/TubeTimeUS/status/1141852542403407873

00:20 <ej5> i'm not

00:20 <cr1901_modern> I'm guessing ppl in the 70s knew about this effect, and "what's one more transistor parameter between friends?" :P

00:21 <cr1901_modern> (according to wiki, GP has at least 41 parameters already)

00:23 <ej5> yeah you could technically model it in spice, but nobody bothers because transistors typically are not operated in that mode

00:23 <cr1901_modern> I loved the Bob Pease reference. His PID controller article is one of my favorites

00:24 <cr1901_modern> Damn shame National treated him like shit near the end of his life

00:25 <ej5> they had a really horrible CEO at the end

00:27 <ej5> eventually he had to step down. of course, he's still on the board of directors at Cisco. :P

00:29 <cr1901_modern> of course

00:29 <cr1901_modern> Not familiar w/ him

00:29 <cr1901_modern> I just remember it being a big deal when Bob Pease "left" (read: was laid off)

00:29 <cr1901_modern> and then a few months later died in a car crash

00:30 <cr1901_modern> like Idk if it was public knowledge or not he got laid off

00:30 <ej5> yeah and when EDN magazine tried to report his layoff, National called them up and told them to pull the article

00:30 <cr1901_modern> ewww

00:30 <ej5> basically threatened them with no more advertising, lawsuits, etc

00:31 <ej5> bob and i were acquainted, we used to run into each other at the electronics flea market

00:31 <cr1901_modern> That was prob about the time I knew for certain that there is no such thing as companies having employee's backs

00:31 <ej5> i have a signed copy of his book on driving "accidents, and how not to get into them"

00:31 <cr1901_modern> uhhh

00:31 <ej5> a cruel irony indeed

00:31 <cr1901_modern> I didn't know he wrote that

00:32 <cr1901_modern> I'm glad you got to meet him. I wish I did (though that would've been logistically tough.

00:32 <ej5> the worst part is that he probably would have survived the accident except he had all this test equipment piled up in the back of his beetle that slid forward in the crash

00:32 <ej5> we'll say he lived by the sword and died by the sword :P

00:32 <cr1901_modern> Not wrong :P

00:33 <ej5> he only drove beetles, he loved those cars.

00:33 <ej5> problem is that they're not safe, especially compared with modern cars

00:34 <cr1901_modern> "How to Drive into Accidents - And How Not to"

00:34 <cr1901_modern> checks out

00:34 <cr1901_modern> typical Bob Pease title

00:34 <cr1901_modern> "What's All This X, Anyhow?"

00:34 <ej5> yeah exactly. it's pretty rambling lol

00:35 <ej5> basically it's a compendium of loosely related shaggy dog stories

00:35 <cr1901_modern> Publisher: Pease Pub

00:35 <cr1901_modern> meaning "self-published"?

00:35 <ej5> yeah

00:36 <cr1901_modern> btw, it took me MUCH longer than I'd like to admit to realize you were rev biasing the ce junction in that image

00:36 <cr1901_modern> schematic*

00:37 <cr1901_modern> Maybe I'm so used to seeing it the other way that my brain auto-corrected it

00:37 <ej5> well the first image was wrong, i had to delete the tweet and republish a corrected version

00:39 <cr1901_modern> Ahh that's also plausible :)

00:40 <cr1901_modern> One backburner thing I want to do is make Bob Pease's PID controller circuit and use it to solve a real life problem I have- a fan controller for my desk based on temperature!

00:41 <cr1901_modern> w/ analog PWM provided by positive feedback from the wonderfully efficient 741 op amp

00:43 <andlabs> today on Things That Never Happen In Capitalism

00:43 <andlabs> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequential_(company)#2015_%E2%80%94present:_return_to_Prophet_and_Sequential

00:43 <andlabs> In January 2015, Yamaha returned the Sequential Circuits and Prophet brands to Smith in a goodwill gesture. This was at the encouragement of Roland founder Ikutaro Kakehashi, who had worked with Smith to create MIDI. Kakehashi said: "I feel that it’s important to get rid of unnecessary conflict among electronic musical instrument companies. That is exactly the spirit of MIDI. For this reason, I personally recommended that the President of Yamaha,

00:43 <andlabs> Mr. Nakata, return the rights to the Sequential name to Dave Smith."[14]

00:44 <cr1901_modern> Interesting... did not know this, also cool that officially they are Sequential again

00:47 <andlabs> it helps that yamaha didn't use the brand at all

00:55 <ej5> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2N696 i should go visit these sculptures and take my own pics

01:18 <cr1901_modern> Shockley was... not a good dude I'm afraid to say :/

01:18 <cr1901_modern> and relatively few ppl seem to know this

01:19 <cr1901_modern> why was it torn down?

02:09 <ej5> cr1901_modern, yeah he was insane to begin with, and he went off the rails after shockley semiconductor collapsed

02:09 <ej5> the book, "the idea factory" doesn't paint a pretty picture of him

02:10 <ej5> the building was torn down to make room for a really big mixed-use development.

02:10 <cr1901_modern> ahhh, and noted: re "the idea factory"

02:12 <cr1901_modern> Reminds me of James Watson, except without (AFAIK) the "stealing the work from others" part

04:33 <andlabs> ej5: who was insane to begin with?

04:34 <andlabs> oh, William Shockley

04:56 <andlabs> also huh the Traitorous Eight quickly developed internal strife

04:57 <andlabs> and eventually Moore refused to acknowledge Hoemi as the inventor of Hoemi's work

04:57 <andlabs> and also Fairchild tried to demote the Eight from partners to employees, which sucks

04:58 <andlabs> Fairchild the person

04:59 <andlabs> (and though Moore would found Intel, Hoemi didn't fade into irrelevance either, having founded Teledyne's semiconductor business and then Intersil)

04:59 <andlabs> anyway good night

12:53 <andlabs> https://i.imgur.com/e0BCFKw.png does anyone recognize this keyboard?

16:22 <whitequark> reminds me of Federico Faggin

16:23 <andlabs> except role-reversed

16:32 <cr1901_modern> Federico Faggin is the z80 (and might've helped on the 4004?) architect, but Idk much about him other than that.

16:33 <whitequark> he wrote an entire book about 4004

16:33 <whitequark> well, 2/3 of it is about 4004, the other 1/3 is about how much intel fucked him over

16:34 <cr1901_modern> ahhh

16:34 <whitequark> intel4004.com

16:34 <cr1901_modern> Okay I see, Ted Hoff was the name I was thinking of

16:34 <cr1901_modern> Is that the webpage w/ the 4004 schematics?

16:35 <whitequark> uh, you could open it?

16:35 <cr1901_modern> Why would I do something logical?

16:35 <cr1901_modern> :P

16:36 <cr1901_modern> Intel’s management punished Faggin by disowning him of his many contributions, attributing most of his credits in the creation of the microprocessor to Ted Hoff, and by encouraging lesser contributors to grab a bigger share and play a bigger role than they did to diminish Faggin's legacy.

16:36 <cr1901_modern> TIL

16:39 <cr1901_modern> Also... yikes ._.

17:27 <andlabs> yes, as if that worked in the end

17:27 <andlabs> people are evil

17:28 <cr1901_modern> It was always bad, the mask is just easier to peel off nowadays

17:28 <cr1901_modern> Thanks to the wonders/horrors of instantaneous communication

17:30 <cr1901_modern> "Meanwhile the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different cultures and races, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation"

17:32 <andlabs> andy samberg saying "the world has always been a nightmare it's only more noticeable now because of our phones" here

17:33 <andlabs> honestly I'm not sure if I fully agree with that, it seems morel ike the nature of the nightmare has changed

17:33 <andlabs> it used to be Everyone Was Bad, now it's Only The People In Power Are Bad

17:33 <andlabs> IDK

18:27 <cr1901_modern> Sarayan: Apropos of nothing, does the YM2203 in your experience so far contain any traps?

18:29 <andlabs> ...traps?

18:30 <cr1901_modern> they are transistors that are doped to visually look like one type when looking at a die shot (N-type, P-type, enhancement, depletion), but their actual operation is that of the opposite type

18:31 <cr1901_modern> it's a reverse engineering protection scheme. And while they can be detected (relevant paper link goes here), 1. It's difficult, 2. I don't know how to do it :P

18:31 <cr1901_modern> Both z80 and 68k contain traps

18:34 <cr1901_modern> Actually, I'm not sure if it's possible to make enhancement look like depletion. Depletion mode has a pretty obvious "signature" once you know what to look for.

18:47 <andlabs> heh