ELLIOTTCABLE changed the topic of #elliottcable to: #softwaredevelopmentaccordingtoelliott
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<purr>
<joelteon> I say parser in a relative sense
<purr>
<Nuck> I guess, but I don't care about build quality or looks, I just want a good cup
<joelteon>
purr: wat.
<purr>
joelteon: can't find the referenced what.
<joelteon>
fuck you
<devyn>
ho-lee shit what did they do to gmaps web
<devyn>
it's actually really good
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<purr>
<alexgordon> ← the maths is strong in this one
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eligrey_ is now known as eligrey
<whitequark>
by the way, you'll like this
<whitequark>
In the definition of the court literally says that "the court decided to recover from Deep Purple in favor of Ian Gillan, Roger Glover, Steve Morse and Ian Paice 450 thousand rubles for the unauthorized public performance of compositions of Ian Gillan, Roger Glover, Steve Morse and Ian Paice"!
<devyn>
my headset sounds so much better than my earbuds <3
<purr>
* devyn haggasadandalcold
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
hi
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: hi!
<devyn>
hey ELLIOTTCABLE
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what even the fuck
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
that comic wtf wtf
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
making me want to play more KSP
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I have a problem. A Kerbal-shaped problem.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I am having SO MUCH FUCKING TROUBLE conducting a successful Mün-landing in career mode.
<devyn>
it's hard to get a soft landing when there's only so much you can take with you
<devyn>
I ate a huge fucking burrito.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
well, the problem for me is scaling up my to-orbit payload.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I just can't figure out how to solve that problem with the tools available to me in career mode.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I don't *have* Rockomax Kabajillion-Gallon Liquid Fuel Tanks or anything.
<devyn>
heh
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I've tried various asparagus configurations with smaller tanks, but they start getting unwieldy outside the first ring. I can't figure out how to make them stable and controllable and reliable, at all.
<devyn>
more struts?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Nor do they ever work, anyway; I end up spending as much as I've gained, so I get into orbit with the same amount of fuel with the same payload (whereas the goal is to get into orbit with *more* fuel, to prove I can handle a larger payload.)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
can't use struts with asparagus. They've gotta detach.
<devyn>
yeah so you strut the outer layers together but have them detach as a whole
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
The only place I ever find myself able to use struts, honestly, is in my very bottom pre-booster stage.
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: did you calculate delta-V for your ship stages?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I usually spam a whole set of solid-fuel boosters onto the bottom of whatever other design I have, strut them all together tightly, and use that to get up to the first 500m.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark: no idea how. Waaaaaaaaaay too much effort to hunt down the numbers on each piece in my shop.
<whitequark>
I find that a ship with just right ΔV is much smaller *and* faster than an unwieldy booster tower
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ship*
<whitequark>
then you will not succeed
<devyn>
fuck, you guys are making me want to play
<devyn>
>_<
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
much *less*, when I need to add or remove pieces, and would have to do all the math over again.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark: why not?
* devyn
gone, playing KSP
<whitequark>
because it's not engineering but gambling
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's Kerbal Space Program. The most important rule is “TACK MORE STUFF ONTO YOUR FIRST STAGE. You're not taking it with you, so …”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
that makes no sense.
<whitequark>
that makes the most sense. you do not perform a directed search or perform a makeshift, inefficient version of it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
It stands to reason, as long as any fuel has a ≥ 1.0 weight-to-boost ratio, which they all clearly have to, that every bit of fuel or every booster you add to the *first stage* (that is, the stage that is actively doing work at all times that it's attached to the ship), should increase your payload capacity.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
first-stage is clearly very simply a big-numbers game. Bigger boosters, bigger fueltanks, bigger rigidity …
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I don't see any way that couldn't be true. Can you refute that logic in words I can understand? /=
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I mean, for everything *else*, yes, finesse is the name of the game … but that's never where I'm having trouble. I'm not able to *do* anything interesting currently with my transfer or return stages, because I can't handle even remotely reasonable payloads with my first / to-orbit stage. /=
<whitequark>
well... the key part is to make each stage *just right* for the change of velocity you must produce
<whitequark>
with later stages, it makes your earlier stages much easier to manage
<whitequark>
with first stage, it makes the stage not fall apart while you're launching it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
unfortunately, I suck at the game, and I really need to build some leniency in there /=
<whitequark>
that's not how it works :]
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I have yet to build a ship, including a ton of leeway, and *not* use up all of that leeway to that last little drop on my successful result
<whitequark>
well... try the following as a guideline:
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
every time I successfully pulled a goal off (first planetary orbit, first moon shot, first returning moon orbiter, etc) ended up *barely* making it back, such that the ship was dead and completely out of fuel, having to cross my fingers and hope my aerobraking return-shot played out well
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
listening (=
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(I'm not as hard-headed as I sound, by the way. I just have to play devil's-advocate to *understand*, because usually what I'm being told sounds so wrong in my operating worldview.)
<whitequark>
I think vanilla KSP shows the ΔV required for a maneuver, *and* ΔV currently present at your ship
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
er
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
wat
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it shows the dV for a maneuver you have planned, but only when you're out there, in orbit, doing maneuvers
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
not useful or relevant at construct-time
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and nah, doesn't show that at construct-time
<whitequark>
mhm, right
<whitequark>
then you could calculate it by hand, disregarding smallest parts or estimating their weight.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
need to get some of those mods. gonna try that right now, actually.
<whitequark>
or get a mod, then it's *trivial*
<whitequark>
I don't know, if I chose to take vanilla KSP I'd use pen and paper.
<whitequark>
*maybe* a calculator :p
<whitequark>
you don't strictly need it, it's not exactly hard
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh by the way
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I've seen a couple ships like this, or similar:
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
he talks a bit about Why Deterministic Physics. And makes some good points.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I especially value what he was saying about teaching. Basically, it boils down to, just like in any other subject, we teach physics *wrong* at first, to give people an intuitive grasp and give them a handle on the subject and excitement
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and KSP's doing the same thing: Allow for an intuitive grasp, allow for a handle on the task, allow for excitement. And, by extension, allow for KSP to even be a teaching tool.
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: I agree, this time I was more complaining about purely technical faults of KSP
<whitequark>
things that could be relatively easily (without violating *our* laws of physics) fixed but are yet not
<devyn>
"a first attempt to develop Mongolian speech corpus that designed for data-driven speech analysis in Mongolia.”
<devyn>
>Oct 2011
<devyn>
what even
<joelteon>
the first attempt was in oct 2011?
<joelteon>
hahahahaa
<joelteon>
get with the program mongolia
<devyn>
the mongols are the perfect example of a people who conquered everything aggressively without really having the organizational skills to keep their power
<devyn>
I mean they swept through and took everything over