<purr>
<elliottcable> “Kapo also had a detachable vagina, which she once used as a decoy to aid her sister Pele to flee the overzealous Kamapua'a.”
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<PLejeck>
15:01:28 +devyn huh what mode of JPEG causes it to load in vertical lines horizontally o.o
<PLejeck>
devyn: It's the rotation flag
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<joelteon>
safari's developer tools are really nice
<joelteon>
i'm surprised
<nuck>
I hate the new ones
<nuck>
They're all... xcode-ey, with seemingly nonsensical icons
<joelteon>
I like xcode
<nuck>
But the icons are awful
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<purr>
<eboy> ohhhhhhhhh
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Somebody shut purr the fuck up
<joelteon>
you
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: /ignore him if you don't like him
<purr>
<Nuck> purr isn't C
<nuck>
if only purr if only
<nuck>
what was it again, -shutup or something
<nuck>
-stop
<nuck>
-what
<nuck>
there
<joelteon>
-stfu
<purr>
joelteon: no u elliott
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Wat
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
-factoid stfu
<purr>
ELLIOTTCABLE: Popularity: 15, last changed by: mix, 595ſ 116mſ ago
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
that's like two years!
<joelteon>
>using human time
<nuck>
>not using sols
<nuck>
>ever
<nuck>
come on they're the best unit ever
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Gone Home is blowing my mind.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
First The Path, then the Stanley Parable... Now this
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I think I'm discovering I have a Thing for interactive storytelling and mindfuck narrative
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: you *may* like To The Moon
<devyn>
nuck: ahh I see
<nuck>
devyn: Yeah it's common from iPhone pics and shit
<nuck>
Since Apple is too lazy to rotate the image I guess
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
This, this,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
This game
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
This game
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Crying
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
So hard
<nuck>
what kind of game makes you cry?
<nuck>
Is it... the game of love?
<devyn>
nuck: yeah I really don't understand why they do that though; surely the iPhone's GPU is more than powerful enough to rotate a goddamn image before writing it
<devyn>
within a few microseconds
<devyn>
or less
<nuck>
devyn: I wonder if it's not that the camera module outputs a JPEG and then they just add the EXIF info to right it?
<devyn>
I'm not sure how that would make any sense
<devyn>
like
<devyn>
wouldn't it make sense for the camera module to just output a properly rotated image then
<nuck>
The camera module doesn't know the orientation
<devyn>
unless the camera module is completely unaware of any rotation restrictions
<devyn>
yeah
<devyn>
I guess
<nuck>
The rotation is determined by the accelerometers
<nuck>
That's just my theory at least
<devyn>
then why is it a good idea for the camera module to output a JPEG
<devyn>
why not just point to the bitmap
<nuck>
It's not a good idea
<nuck>
It'd be nice if it'd output the RAW
<devyn>
er, there's no such thing as "RAW" as a standard
<nuck>
Shooting raw on iPhone with manual focus and exposure would be so hnnnnnnng
<nuck>
I know the formats aren't standard but they all share the same concept
<whitequark>
processing jpegs is surprisingly problematic
<devyn>
...that concept being sensor data.
<devyn>
that's all it is
<devyn>
lol
<whitequark>
no seriously
<nuck>
Yes but it's more than just a bitmap devyn
<devyn>
yes'
<devyn>
I know!
<devyn>
lol
<whitequark>
think making a burst shot
<nuck>
the sensor data is that odd array thing and you can do crazy shit with the raw data
<whitequark>
at maximal framerate possible
<nuck>
Like adjusting the ISO
<devyn>
but sensor data → bitmap isn't trivial; it's camera specific
<nuck>
Sort of devyn
<whitequark>
and keep in mind iphone doesn't really have a lot of spare RAM
<nuck>
ah that's true
<whitequark>
once you count out all the framebuffers, DMA buffers and shit
<devyn>
not "sort of"
<devyn>
it isn't trivial
<devyn>
at all
<nuck>
devyn: It's not camera specific anymore though
<whitequark>
it is camera specific, of course, on mobile devices
<nuck>
Since we have FOSS libs to directly pull the data from the censor
<nuck>
sensor
<whitequark>
they have all sorts of odd proprietary shit written by whatever indian came across that
<whitequark>
lol what
<devyn>
wat
<nuck>
Well, not pull the data, but to process the raw data into a bitmap
<whitequark>
even if you can pull the data, the *processing algorithms* are highly specific to the particular sensor
<whitequark>
there's no silver bullet for them, you gotta rely on the algos provided by vendor
<whitequark>
or reverse-engineer them
<nuck>
Photoshop seems to have thoroughly genericized it
<whitequark>
no.
<nuck>
I've seen raw plugins come out pretty quickly nowadays
<whitequark>
camera RAWs have absolutely no relationship whatsoever to data you're pulling from sensors on embedded devices
<nuck>
ah
<whitequark>
camera RAWs are normalized by camera vendor, first and foremost
<nuck>
oh yeah
<nuck>
I wonder if iPhone could theoretically have the RAM to shoot a RAW file though
<whitequark>
... wat
<devyn>
yes of course it does
<nuck>
Or whatever demands it takes to process something into RAW
<whitequark>
you don't have an understanding of what RAW is, do you?
<nuck>
I'm half asleep right now forgive me for slurring thoughts a bit
* nuck
facedesks
<whitequark>
it's just whatever binary format the camera vendor decides it wants to output
<whitequark>
hence
<whitequark>
raw
<whitequark>
duh.
<nuck>
whitequark: I'm a former design and photography major, yes I fucking know
<nuck>
:P
<whitequark>
well, nothing prevents iPhone from writing whatever it gets from the sensor to a file
<whitequark>
it's just not done because why bother
<whitequark>
wrong market
<nuck>
Because hipsters love it
<nuck>
And sadly I'm fairly certain the APIs prevent a third party app from doing it :/
<devyn>
it's not that the APIs prevent it
<nuck>
oh?
<devyn>
no
<devyn>
they just don't give it to you
<devyn>
lol
<nuck>
what do you mean?
<devyn>
I'm not sure whether the software layer even gets the raw data
<nuck>
yeah
<whitequark>
it does, in a way
<whitequark>
on android phones it makes all the way through the kernel to the camera hw-specific so
<whitequark>
no reason iphone would be any different; same hardware
<devyn>
yeah well then I'd assume iPhones would too
<devyn>
yeah
<nuck>
So the driver handles the debayer?
<whitequark>
yea
<nuck>
mmm makes sense
<nuck>
Can third party apps even take a picture as anything but a JPEG on iOS?
<devyn>
good question
<nuck>
I've never seen one capable of saving a PNG or a higher-quality-than-default JPEG, even in the professional range
<nuck>
Or a JP2K but who the hell uses JP2K?
<whitequark>
likely no
<whitequark>
I mean, what is the point in capturing photos as PNG
<whitequark>
you're better off with BMP
<devyn>
yeah that ^
<nuck>
Yeah but last I checked BMP was consistently 0 compression, and on a portable device even slight compression is useful
<nuck>
PNG would be able to compress blue skies fairly well
<whitequark>
nope
<nuck>
No? I think I know the PNG compression techniques, I've only read it 3 times now
<whitequark>
I mean, PNG is truly horrible for slight gradients
<whitequark>
it's about the worst case ever for it
<nuck>
What spec did *you* read?
<whitequark>
PNG?
<nuck>
According to the PNG spec, slight gradients should compress very well
<nuck>
And in my experience they do
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<nuck>
Subtle fairly uniform gradients should be compressed fairly well since the filtering step takes it into a sequences of diffs for most cases and then the diffs should be able to be compressed well
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's actually a word, but clearly, it's speaking of sequentiality.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“occuring within the sequence of.”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
or similar
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
brb shower
<joelteon>
also, the internal OSX stuff for managing authorization is crap
<joelteon>
as well
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I want to program. I just don't know what.
<devyn>
SAME HERE
<devyn>
lol
<purr>
lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
joelteon: I swear, you are the most interesting person.
<devyn>
it's like I've run out of ideas
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I mean, I usually say it to insult you
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but it's actually *impressive* for how long, and how consistently, you've managed to avoid engaging in *actual conversations with others present*.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Some day, you're going to syndicate your Twitter posts to IRC, and nobody's going to notice the difference.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
devyn: let's idea-brainstorm!
<joelteon>
I don't post on IRC
<joelteon>
or
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
… after I shower. and walk dogs. and do all my dishes. and build a car.
<joelteon>
on twitter
<joelteon>
I do a lot on IRC
<joelteon>
I usually try to spur discussion or helpfulness with it
<devyn>
lol okay
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I want to build an engine.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
can I CNC a small engine?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark: I'm going to CNC a tiny engine on my strangely inadequate Kickstarter scam router-table.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and then it will blow up and I will die.
<joelteon>
fucking FUCK
<joelteon>
I NEED DOCUMENTATION
<devyn>
joelteon: yep he's right
<devyn>
hahahaha
<devyn>
you tend to have conversations with yourself on IRC
<joelteon>
it's not a conversation
<devyn>
it's pretty amusing.
<joelteon>
it's a monologue
<devyn>
you know what I meant
<joelteon>
i'm too accustomed to doing it in help channels
<joelteon>
so i do it here too
<devyn>
huh I rarely go to help channels. I mean the other day I visited #sequel for a weird problem but I've since figured it out
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<devyn>
I should probably go back and tell them it actually is a bug but not really one I'd expect them to fix
<joelteon>
yeah i usually go in help channels, ask questions
<devyn>
since what I was doing was so weird
<joelteon>
and then wait for 18 hours or so
<joelteon>
occasionally bringing up relevant bits of my debugging efforts
<joelteon>
people find it really irritating, which is good
<devyn>
basically I subclassed Sequel::Model(Sequel.lit("lists.\"#{list.id}\"")) which works for the most part
<devyn>
except in a few things
<devyn>
which try to enclose that in quotes again
<devyn>
like "lists.""1"""
<devyn>
which did not work.
<devyn>
it would work if I had done Sequel::Model("lists__#{list.id}".to_sym)
<devyn>
but I don't really like to create symbols from dynamic data
<devyn>
if I can help it
<devyn>
haha
<joelteon>
yeah
<joelteon>
i think there's a library function you can call to get all the symbols that have been referenced
<joelteon>
it's awesome
<devyn>
it's awesome for figuring out if you have symbol leaks, yes
<joelteon>
oh my FUCKING GOd i figured it out
<devyn>
not so awesome if you actually do have one
<joelteon>
yeah
<joelteon>
phew, i can't believe i solved a thing and it's only 4 PM
<joelteon>
ok hey guys
<joelteon>
uh
<joelteon>
client certificate support is fucking crap
<joelteon>
in browsers
<devyn>
yes this is not a new thing
<devyn>
they're also rather annoying for users
<joelteon>
good thing the only user for this one is me
<joelteon>
devyn, are they a "good idea"
<devyn>
they're secure but there aren't really any good tools to make them accessible
<devyn>
or portable
<joelteon>
portable...
<joelteon>
oh yeah
<joelteon>
i'll need to put this on a USB stick or something