purr changed the topic of #elliottcable to: elliott's cloudwig
<whitequark> >RIP in peace
* whitequark slaps prophile around a bit with a large trout
<glowcoil> RIPIP in peace whitequark
<prophile> "RIP in peace" is a great phrase
<whitequark> hnggg
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<purr> <micahjohnston> I'm really excited to do Cunts next semester?
<glowcoil> god can we get rid of some of these
<alexgordon> glowcoil: LOL
<purr> LOL
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<glowcoil> FUCK you tmux
<glowcoil> jesus christ
<jesusabdullah> ololo
<purr> ololo
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<eligrey> http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/89195.The_Prefect says standalone -- can i read that without reading the other revelation books?
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<purr> <vil> hmmm, can't quite fit the end of a whiteboard marker in my nostril
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<purr> <elliottcable> oh gods eboyjr is a progress bar
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<purr> <elliottcable> I fart cake
<whitequark> this is so horrible
<whitequark> it's actually pretty awesome
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<alexgordon> whitequark: LOL
<purr> LOL
<ELLIOTTCABLE> 'allo
<ELLIOTTCABLE> glowcoil: burial <'3
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<glowcoil> christ tmux
<ELLIOTTCABLE> "legendary developer"
<ELLIOTTCABLE> brb twitter bio
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> Everyone dead today, or what?
<whitequark> no
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hello, whitequark
<whitequark> hi
<purr> whitequark: hi!
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: awake?
<alexgordon> y
<purr> <locks> I'm suh a cboob
<eligrey> i don't understand why CC no dervivatives even exists
<eligrey> might as well assert full copyright protection
<ELLIOTTCABLE> er,
<ELLIOTTCABLE> seriously?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so people can use your work, because you want to release it out there into the world, even if you're uncomfortable participating fully in the open-source/remix culture.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> butts
<ELLIOTTCABLE> whitequark: since alexgordon isn't here, do you want to try and sanity-check my rewritten mess-of-an-algorithm?
<alexgordon> eligrey: ?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I mean, that's a questionable proposition, given that you're barely sane and all,
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: I said I was here
<ELLIOTTCABLE> oh
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I didn't see your *single character* response ;P
<alexgordon> I was being lazy :P
<alexgordon> dammit eligrey gonna have to ignore you to save my tabcomplete
<alexgordon> FUCK IT STILL COMPLETES eligrey
<ELLIOTTCABLE> LOL
<purr> LOL
<alexgordon> even when I type "EL" it does eligrey
<whitequark> ELLIOTTCABLE: /'barely sane"
<whitequark> lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE> completely rewrote the goddamn thing
<ELLIOTTCABLE> it's still a mess.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but, I hope, a slightly more comprehensible mess … and, more importantly, a *complete* mess, afaict.
<eligrey> the primary reason i changed my nick to eligrey was to inconvenience everyone in the channel
<eligrey> or at least that's probably how it looks
* ELLIOTTCABLE laughs
<whitequark> whoever is eligrey ?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> it's not in caps, though!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> whitequark: oh, gods, don't ask.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> an old, old troll.
<eligrey> my autocomplete ignores case
<ELLIOTTCABLE> if he asks you to code for him, or join his programming ‘society,’ run away very very quickly.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -find seph
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: Found: leaving, ask sephr, sephr, two people out of this entire channel, and -letter people who frequent this channel
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -leaving
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: How horrible! I don't know what I'll do with myself without you, eboyjr or sephr!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -ask sephr
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: < sephr> do whatever plan9 did
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -sephr
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: plainly purple-pantséd people-porker
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -two people out of this entire channel
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: NUCK and SEPHR
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -4-letter people who frequent this channel
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: nuck, locks, and sephr
<ELLIOTTCABLE> what the fuck
<ELLIOTTCABLE> -factoid 4-letter people who frequent this channel
<purr> ELLIOTTCABLE: Popularity: 1, last changed by: elliottcable, 300ſ 183mſ ago
<ELLIOTTCABLE> That was *me*!?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> apparently, 300 days ago, I couldn't count.
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: which bit do you want me to read?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> the link
<ELLIOTTCABLE> goes to `next()`
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I renamed `advance()` for the purposes of this spec, because I stopped trying to disentangle it into multiple pieces. Now it's just one huge, but straightforward, algorithm that Does Everything™.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> will fix that in the next re-write, but for now, I just wanted it to be complete and coherent.
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: LOL your profile pic
<purr> LOL
<eligrey> do you have any public draft specs i can view?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Holy FUCK, dude
<ELLIOTTCABLE> who just joined
<eligrey> also are you talking about another programming language you're making
<ELLIOTTCABLE> because you're not “Anonymous snake” or “Anonymous rabbit” or “dolphin” or “whale” or whatever,
<ELLIOTTCABLE> you're goddamn “Anonymous Nyan Cat.”
<eligrey> > Anonymous nyan cat
<ELLIOTTCABLE> the only coloured anonymous-animal icon I've ever seen up there.
<alexgordon> nyan
<alexgordon> nah it's not me
<eligrey> yeah i've seen it once before in gdrive
<ELLIOTTCABLE> eligrey: same programming language. I abandoned Paws, and programming as a whole, months ago, but I'm kinda life-bored right now … so I'm taking some time to read over my abandoned spec-work, improve it a bit.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> call it an idle pas-time to remind myself how much I hate computer science.
<eligrey> you should experiment with vr ux
<eligrey> i'd like to see what you might come up with
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hm?
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<eligrey> its like designing a language except the language is me
<eligrey> ELLIOTTCABLE: virtual reality ux
<whitequark> fucking freecad is a fucking fuck
<eligrey> s/me/your body/
<whitequark> it just crashed and took everything I done with it
<eligrey> also did you hear about rift DK2 supporting mounted leaps?
<eligrey> since you were all into the leap a couple years ago
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Who what when where?
<eligrey> the rift dk2 has a usb port on the side so you can glue a leap to the center of the front of the headset
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Rift dk2?
<eligrey> devkit 2
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Oh, oculus rift. Sorry, forgot that's what it was called.
<eligrey> combine this with myo armbands and you have full positional arm detection with very accurate/fast finger tip detection in front of the headset
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Meh. Not really my thing.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> In fact, it's exactly the *opposite* of my thing.
<whitequark> for once I agree with ec, kvm is the best interface ever created
<eligrey> i'll be experimenting with ui concepts for it once i get my DK2
<ELLIOTTCABLE> KVM? Lolno.
<purr> Lolno
<ELLIOTTCABLE> The best user-interface is your couch.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> your shirt.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> your doorknob.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> your dog's leash, your pillow, your steering-wheel.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Interfaces that disappear are clearly the future. Not ones that, beyond having to go to a computer or console, but actually having to *don a special device*
<whitequark> that isn't going to happen.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> ones that don't just inadvertently cause you to disconnect from the outside world, but ones that actively *require you to do so*
<whitequark> I mean, perfect ability to track you at every single second you exist, and no screen to shove a fuckton of ads on?
<whitequark> modality is awesome. modality allows you to focus and concentrate on whatever you're supposed to be doing.
<whitequark> when I want to eat, I prepare my table. when I want to draw, mill, or cut, I prepare my workbench.
* ELLIOTTCABLE shrugs
<purr> ¯\(º_o)/¯
<whitequark> when I want to do something in information-space, I sure as hell want to prepare whatever gate to information-space I'm going to be using, modally.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> not into big philosophical discussions, atm. feeling rather productive. feels good. going back to spec-work.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> last comment: Glass is *much* more in the right direction, IMO, than Rift.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: let me know what you see/think. Does that line up with your previous understanding from reading the spec?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Oh my god, *please* go read this.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Can't breathe, laughing. http://wathifi.tumblr.com
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<whitequark> that's not funny, that's sad
<whitequark> the idiot who wrote the last entry in particular. should just be tossed to a furnace.
<whitequark> *shrug*
<purr> ¯\(º_o)/¯
<ELLIOTTCABLE> oh, the cable debate is totally a thing
<whitequark> I'm well aware
<whitequark> I'm also of opinion that people with too low IQ should be banned from life
<whitequark> where do I sign up to donate my $1000 for that?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> They, at least, were discussing *actual analog audio cables*.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Scroll down and read the posts about $500 mains cables.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Or, worse, fucking USB or HDMI cables. oh gods.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Well, I hear there's an assassination Kickstarter clone somewhere on the torweb
<whitequark> what? the last entry is about "digital cables sounding better"
<ELLIOTTCABLE> OH
<ELLIOTTCABLE> mis-read that
<ELLIOTTCABLE> oh gods
<ELLIOTTCABLE> so much worse ;_;
<whitequark> you see, there IS some truth that a $500 cable sounds better than an identical $5 one
<whitequark> because that's how brains work
<ELLIOTTCABLE> whitequark: I'd love to see you start a blog where you “review” these cables and devices by breaking them down, and showing what's inside them. :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I can't *fathom* what on earth the chips and boards in those cords' terminators could possibly be for.
<whitequark> but implying that they result in different waveforms being reproduced in case of a digital cable requires such an absurd level of willful malicious ignorance I don't think I would winch before putting a bullet in their brain.
<whitequark> (terminators) well... will you pay for them?
<whitequark> if you do, I might actually go through the trouble of completely reverse-engineering the assemblies
<whitequark> down to sanding-down-the-PCBs to see the traces on all layers
<whitequark> and decapping the ICs
<whitequark> ELLIOTTCABLE: or go straight to next level: wine.
<whitequark> used gas chromatography machine: $10,000 on eBay.
<whitequark> shoving absence of any correlation between experts' reviews and wine constituents: priceless.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> This is why I like scotch.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Unreasonably loud-ass differences between single-malt releases, not some stupid fancy shit you have to make up on the spot to describe faint, fleeting differences …
<ELLIOTTCABLE> … a field where the *middle-ground* single-malts, in terms of price, are universally accepted as the most easy-drinking, straight-up delicious ones …
<ELLIOTTCABLE> (as opposed to the expensive thing being the coveted thing)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> “his has good flesh.”
<ELLIOTTCABLE> dying
<whitequark> now someone just needs to go to a wine tasting whatever
<whitequark> with a google glass
<whitequark> and read that out loud and see if anyone even notices
<whitequark> I bet you $100 no one will
<ELLIOTTCABLE> best plan evah
<ELLIOTTCABLE> In fact, I mildly want to release this as Glassware, now.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> “Wine Tasting Tutor” or something.
<whitequark> do it
<purr> <locks> * notes to everyone, even elliott asks how the fuck does Paws work
<ELLIOTTCABLE> thanks, locls
<ELLIOTTCABLE> somebody drag locks back in here, and make him stop inexplicably hating me.
<whitequark> FUCKING FREECAD ARRAGGHGH
<whitequark> SDFSLDKFSDF
<whitequark> I hate software in general
<whitequark> but I hate EDA software on another fucking level
<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: did you die?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: or get laid?
<alexgordon> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<ELLIOTTCABLE> die or dial, only a couple characters off.
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: ok all done
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: what did you want
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Couple things
<ELLIOTTCABLE> in specific, feedback on the writeup of that next() algorithm. It's rather tangly and long and ewwey, but it *should* be complete.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> thus, enough, (assuming you can comprehend it despite messiness,) to direct you in your implementation.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and, in general, your attention and love and assistance with this whole process <3
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> glowcoil!
<alexgordon> glowcoil!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> you're back on the irssi host? I'm surprised
<ELLIOTTCABLE> when did that happen?
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: oh man, I'd have to find my implementation
<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: eh. do you *need* to use it, to review it?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I'd rather you ignore your old implementation, 'cuz I'm about to dive into writing on the shit we never got to.
<glowcoil> ELLIOTTCABLE: tmux is being a fucking bitch
<alexgordon> mmmm popcorn
<ELLIOTTCABLE> in which case you'll have an excellent chance to start over with a *concise, sane* and above all *complete* specification to follow.
<glowcoil> ELLIOTTCABLE: like, the reason to use tmux w irssi is so that it's *still open* when you ssh in again
<glowcoil> ELLIOTTCABLE: and it hasn't stayed open like the last 3 times
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: mmm my implementation is more like a reference implementation
<alexgordon> for myself
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: tbh your spec is actually saner than the C99 spec
<glowcoil> ELLIOTTCABLE: also yes <3 burial
<alexgordon> plainer english
<glowcoil> ELLIOTTCABLE: which burial u listenin 2
<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: d'awww love u lotz
<ELLIOTTCABLE> glowcoil: haven't listened to burial in probably a solid year
<ELLIOTTCABLE> my tastes have moved on, a bit. Which is really sad.
<glowcoil> :c
* alexgordon is eating so much popcorn you couldn't imagine
<ELLIOTTCABLE> It's like the time I realized I didn't really listen to any of my beloved classics anymore, and mostly reveled in rap and linkin park. >,>
<glowcoil> burial is still literally my #1 favorite artist, at all
<glowcoil> no one is better
<glowcoil> got alexgordon listening to rival dealer ep the other day haha
<glowcoil> i mean tastes shift around but often i come back to things
<alexgordon> glowcoil: I really like trip hop and stuff
<glowcoil> probably not permament
<alexgordon> it's very close to jazz
<glowcoil> alexgordon: mhm
<glowcoil> yeah
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<alexgordon> in terms of emphasising sounds over lyrics
<glowcoil> yeah
<alexgordon> I can never fucking understand what people say in lyrics, so they don't do anything for me
<glowcoil> i feel like ther's a *lot* in common between jazz and the whole type of electronci music including trip hop and burial and stuff
<alexgordon> yeah for sure
<glowcoil> like i feel like those two things are what i personally connect with the most
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Trip hop <3<3<3<3<3<3<3
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<glowcoil> there is a burial song that samples "teardrop"
<glowcoil> :p
<ELLIOTTCABLE> glowcoil: link. now.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> before I *explode*.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> kimhorne: 'allo!
<kimhorne> hello!
<alexgordon> what's a kimhorne?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Here's, basically, my belief system:
<ELLIOTTCABLE> I have trouble believing there's such a thing as an *invalid* reason for attraction / disattraction.
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: are we talking about physics or fucking?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> With some things, though, your words are spot-on, probably moreso than you intended them: “You should ask yourself why.” With some attractions or disattractions, I would imagine that it's important to be excruciatingly introspective, and make sure there's not bigotry at play.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: a kimhorne is a twitter, and also a hair. sometimes glasses.
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: ah, so like me but without the glasses
<kimhorne> mostly glasses and tattoos.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> my own example: I've *never* been attracted to black girls. (Black guys, sure, but not black girls.) I have no idea why.
* alexgordon is 94.9% hair
<ELLIOTTCABLE> But, at the very least, I'm convinced it's not a larger bigotry at play; it's a simple mechanic of interest and attraction.
<alexgordon> so we ARE talking about fucking
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but I've never talked to a black girl *about* that, so it's largely echo-chamber philosophy;
<ELLIOTTCABLE> hence this conversation being of interest to me:
<kimhorne> and I think that's perfectly fair. Attraction isn't a science and there are all kinds of reasons to be attracted to folks...
<kimhorne> but if you find yourself looking at someone and saying "I'd be attracted to them except..." then you might want to look closer?
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: you've got to remember that "black americans" != "black people" in general...
<ELLIOTTCABLE> what do you think, about somebody who claims (and seems) to be otherwise unbigoted, expressing a lack of attraction to post-GRS people of their otherwise-claimed gender-of-attraction?
<kimhorne> as a blanket statement, without qualification or exception? It's PROBABLY rooted in bigotry
<ELLIOTTCABLE> mmmmm.
<alexgordon> black americans are the children of slaves, they were chosen to be strong and fit, which (unfortunately) favours male attractiveness over female attractiveness
<kimhorne> like, if you're attracted to them otherwise and that's what's holding you back?
<kimhorne> whaaaat the fuck
<ELLIOTTCABLE> kimhorne: ignore alexgordon.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> alexgordon: stop scaring away the visitors. ಠ_ಠ
<alexgordon> ?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> you pissed off somebody yesterday, too, who was that
<alexgordon> I think that was you ELLIOTTCABLE
<alexgordon> you pissed off malia
<ELLIOTTCABLE> oh, the conversation with glowcoil and, uh, rojoroboto, about gender diversity
<ELLIOTTCABLE> yeah, I pissed off malia, not what I meant
<ELLIOTTCABLE> kimhorne: I don't know, can anybody ever say “I'd be attracted to them *except* …”
<ELLIOTTCABLE> actually, I think that's rather your point. So I definitely agree, there.
<alexgordon> ELLIOTTCABLE: anyway my point was that it's probably not about skin color per se
<kimhorne> well, imagine (as this is OFTEN the case) that you were attracted to someone and then found out
<ELLIOTTCABLE> If you're *noticing attraction*, and having to except it and make excuses for it to yourself, then there's almost certainly bigotry at play.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> i.e. having some reason to deny yourself that attraction
<kimhorne> yep!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> yeah. that case. exactly.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> but, my point:
<ELLIOTTCABLE> what of someone making blanket statements *from experience*, instead of from bigotry? how can you tell the two apart, if at all?
<kimhorne> well, that's kinda bigotry in a nutshell isnt it? Extrapolating to the whole population characteristics observed in a sample?
<ELLIOTTCABLE> (that is, somebody trying to convey ‘I've never found myself attracted to trans people,’ as opposed to ‘I will never be attracted to a trans person’ … but with the ambiguous phrasings of “I'm not attracted to trans people”)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Not if you're extrapolating *your own* behavior, though. I suppose, at worst, that's bigotry against yourself.
<kimhorne> huh. Good point. :)
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Mmmm. That brings up another question, though.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Anyway.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> kimhorne: awesome of you to take time to educate and discuss. I always value that.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> You're welcome to hang around for a bit, if alexgordon doesn't bigot in your general direction. #everythingisaverb
<kimhorne> Another question?
* alexgordon still doesn't understand what he said wrong
<whitequark> "extrapolating to the whole population characteristics observed in a sample" isn't bigotry, it's... basic statistics?
<kimhorne> You caught me on a good day. :) Normally I'm all RAWR
<whitequark> cherry-picking only those characteristics that reinforce your preexisting beliefs probably is, though
<ELLIOTTCABLE> whitequark: that's what bigotry is, though. Applying statistics to individuals.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Basically, “being judgmental.”
<alexgordon> I thought bigotry was doing what your parents told you
<ELLIOTTCABLE> Everyone does it, I do truly believe so. But I also believe it's fundamentally wrong.
<glowcoil> welllll i have to go :c
<ELLIOTTCABLE> It's a large part of what makes life, *life*. Or, I suppose, sentience.
<glowcoil> hopefully tmux stays open this time
<whitequark> ELLIOTTCABLE: if statistics says avoiding black people will make my life longer, that's what I'm going to do. and it'd be pretty hard to convince me otherwise
<ELLIOTTCABLE> If five dog-shaped animals try and bite a cat, the cat will always screech and run from dog-shaped animals.
<alexgordon> glowcoil: o7
<glowcoil> whitequark: statistics literally doesn't say that?
<glowcoil> ?
<whitequark> glowcoil: I have no idea
<ELLIOTTCABLE> If five dog-shaped animals try and bite a person, the person *can choose* to give the sixth dog a chance.
<glowcoil> whitequark: idk just seemed like a weird statement to make
<kimhorne> I'm most likely to be murdered by family so I probably should avoid them all. lol.
<purr> lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE> The human animal is inherently bigoted by their own fear. Overcoming that is what makes us human, and what makes us amazing.
<ELLIOTTCABLE> shaddup purr
<kimhorne> probably murdered in my own house too so I should move.
<whitequark> kimhorne: if cost of avoiding all families wasn't greater, yeah, that's what you probably should do
<glowcoil> o7 each
<ELLIOTTCABLE> glowcoil: goodbye lovely buttons
<alexgordon> xD get a room
<alexgordon> or don't. I'm not even sure that glowcoil is road legal
<kimhorne> gotta jet myself. Apple pie wont eat itself. Toodles!
<ELLIOTTCABLE> kimhorne: o7
<ELLIOTTCABLE> glowcoil: you have terrible timing
<ELLIOTTCABLE> glowcoil: was going to make you read my revised spec-work from the last three days
<ELLIOTTCABLE> finally came together and got over my confusion.
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<glowcoil> ELLIOTTCABLE: sry <3 :'(
<glowcoil> byr
<glowcoil> bye
<ELLIOTTCABLE> byr bby
<joelteon> what do you call unique permutations
<joelteon> er wait no
<joelteon> it's uh
<joelteon> if you have a sample of 16
<joelteon> or
<joelteon> a dataset of 16
<joelteon> how do you choose all the unique samples of 4 from it
<alexgordon> joelteon: you have to be more specific
<alexgordon> joelteon: all the subsets of length 4?
<joelteon> yes
<alexgordon> joelteon: that would be 4-combinations
<joelteon> how do i get them
<alexgordon> joelteon: what you do is have four (or three?) nested loops
<alexgordon> the first one loops from 0 to the end
<alexgordon> the second one loops from the first index to the end
<alexgordon> etc
<alexgordon> not sure if that will work for truncated combinations though
<joelteon> oh ok
<alexgordon> I normally just use python
<joelteon> i found an incredibly beautiful solution to it