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<kepsico>
ah IRC, my old friend. It's been a while
* ELLIOTTCABLE
nods
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
forgive me if I'm not too talkative, I'm nipples-deep in revamping some old spec-work.
<kepsico>
no worries, I don't have much to say myself atm I've just got my face scrunched at my digital ocean accnt and my work-code at the same time
<kepsico>
toootally focusing on both I swear ><
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
totally.
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<serafie_>
is this the right room i have no freaking idea
<serafie_>
is there an ELIOT CABEL here
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
serafie_: <'3
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
assuming this is erin's new IRC nick?
<serafie_>
apparently he does deod ads or something
<serafie_>
new is a strong word
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
old.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
don't make me use Salt & Vinegar Chips on you.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's super-effective against all types.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
also, irccloud represent, nigga
<serafie_>
this was my "gotta talk to weird asterisk people from portugal but don't want them showing up at my house" nick
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
lol.
<purr>
lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you still work on asterisk?
<serafie_>
on is a strong word
<serafie_>
arouunnd
<serafie_>
yes
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
okay
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like I just told kepsico, I can't focus on chat, writing spec
<serafie_>
this is why you invited me here?
<serafie_>
:)
<serafie_>
or just to shut me up on twutterdm
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh, no, I want to talk to you
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
just, uhhhh, asynchronously :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
or, in, like, an hour or two, when I get too inebriated to be as productive as I'm currently managing, and give up, and come in here to shoot the breeze while I watch TV.
<serafie_>
sounds like me right now.
<serafie_>
bit past balmer's peak i am
<kepsico>
okay giant empty office buildings become creepy once the late night cleaning crew shows up
<kepsico>
time for me to head back to the homestead
<kepsico>
I might idle this place tho, never a bad idea to have other coders abotu
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
testing, 123
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what the shit
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
kepsico: oh, nobody in here writes code
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
they are all fetishists. we discuss anus-health.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I mean, it *is* called #ELLIOTTCABLE.
<kepsico>
gotta keep a clean sphincter
* kepsico
vanishes in a puff of smoke
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<alexgordon>
two more new people?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
goddamnit
<alexgordon>
I'LL HANDLE THIS
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
crap.
* alexgordon
puts on his scary face
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon is the new darkf
<alexgordon>
-_-
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: have a beer with me <3
* alexgordon
has an internet beer with ELLIOTTCABLE
<alexgordon>
so we've done feminism and racism
<alexgordon>
what next
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
no, a real beer, *over* the internet.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(ageism)
<alexgordon>
dwarfism?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
hey, so.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you never had an actual response, you useless fuck.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
did that algorithm go down cleanly?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
also, I rewrote damn near the entire first half.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
or am in the middle of doing so.
<serafie_>
alexgordon i am not new, we have met before you and i
<alexgordon>
serafie_: can I interest you in some casual ageism?
<serafie_>
you jest, i am almost there
<alexgordon>
OLD PEOPLE CARRY DISEASES
<serafie_>
helps I am female, though. They can't be both at the same time and get away with it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
They can't be both old and female at the same time, and get away with it?
<serafie_>
though I am still at my first job... I think I need to get a new one just 'cuz
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I know some grandmas who could teach you a move or two, then …
<serafie_>
oh crap my future just got real
<serafie_>
so I've been w/ digium 7 yrs. almost went to facebook 18 mos ago & now kicking myself due to FB's stock price.
<serafie_>
need a new job pretty soon to keep from being stale.
<serafie_>
but working on really cool NEW stuff right now, i'm actually excited about it.
<serafie_>
I'm torn.
<alexgordon>
facebook is down 7% today if that makes you feel any better
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what's wrong with Google Glass? D:
<serafie_>
does not make me feel better. :(
<serafie_>
Would have to go down like 80% to get back to the strike price they offered me :'(
<serafie_>
Can I comfort myself with real estate prices?
<serafie_>
my house would be 5 times the price in SV
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“But there is – previously unappreciated by me – a large population of people for whom really dumb offensive strawmannish memes are exactly what they need.”
<alexgordon>
hey we call guns "rooty tooty point and shooty"
* alexgordon
stares at this code
<alexgordon>
how can web programming be so easy, and yet everything progresses at a quarter of the pace
<whitequark>
because it's not easy
<whitequark>
it just has the kind of learning curve that attracts ignorant morons
<alexgordon>
it is easy if you use django
<alexgordon>
I could do it blindfolded
<whitequark>
there's nothing special about most of "web programming"
<whitequark>
I mean, if you're 100% satisfied by a bunch of forms entirely covered by $frameworkname then it is your domain that is simple
<whitequark>
not web programming in general
<whitequark>
in my experience even very modestly sized projects quickly devolve into a hairball of complexity, half of which stems from the ways the framework tries to make it all easier, at which point it's no different from some enterprise shit
<alexgordon>
whitequark: yeah it depends on the site
<whitequark>
I mean, hello world gui is easy as well
<alexgordon>
it gets more difficult if you have to have a smart backend
<whitequark>
especially if you aren't using bare winapi
<alexgordon>
but if it's just simple DB-driving stuff
<alexgordon>
it's not hard
<whitequark>
if it's just simple DB-driving stuff, you are most likely doing something completely useless
<alexgordon>
haha no I'm doing something extremely important to the future of this planet ;)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon: when you sent that, I was reading a series of articles about diabetes.
<whitequark>
and I will help you evolve it, with a shovel.
<alexgordon>
whitequark: ;) personal side-project.
<alexgordon>
nah, actually this project is a mix of django and node.js. Django for the DB stuff, node for the interesting stuff
<alexgordon>
I am currently doing django
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
9:20 PM <+whitequark> in my experience even very modestly sized projects quickly devolve into a hairball of complexity, half of which stems from the ways the framework tries to make it all easier, at which point it's no different from some enterprise shit
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
serafie_: I'm super hate-jealous towards running. Can't rationalize or explain it. Tore up my last relationship.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I just couldn't handle her going and goddamned running *six goddamned miles* every other day.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I just can't wrap my head around a universe in which that's anything other than masochistic, psychotic, broken, disgusting, impossible, unbelievable, … hurtful …
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
yeah. I'm fucked up. I know. Moving on.
<serafie_>
I exaggerate greatly. I run maybe 3 miles every other day.
<serafie_>
Have run 9 one time.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
You gotta understand. I collapse after maybe half a klick. |=
<serafie_>
at one point I thought I might do a half-marathon. I did some 10Ks.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I was made to run for several of the swimming programs I participated in as a kid; I can literally swim a mile faster than I can run one (because I'm on the goddamned ground goddamned gasping for half of the time I'm “running.”)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
sorry. ugh. can't talk about this without getting super-upset.
<serafie_>
I understand. I can't run fast. I have to jog basically. I can run forever if I jog, but I can't actually do a 10-minute mile for more than 1 mile.
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
serafie_: So, did I ever teach you Paws? :P
<serafie_>
Did you ever finish Paws? :D
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
depends on your definition of finish. ;)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
If I went back to caring, I'd be five years from being remotely ‘finished’ with the product I have envisioned.
<serafie_>
aw
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Usable, but not API-frozen, beta? Maybe year and a half, maybe two.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but yes, there was an implementation of the basic concept that ran code, up to the point that flaws in the basic design became apparent;
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and the last work I was doing before flaming out on the whole pile of bullshit, was an actual specification of what work we have so far. Because I'm told it's apparently super-incomprehensible and insane, when I swear it's really not.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so, yeah, as of a couple days ago I opened that work back up and started clearing up todos and #INCOMPLETE# markers and shit.
<whitequark>
it's not really incomprehensible
<serafie_>
Aw. I'd like to see, but I don't have time to become fully involved.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
alexgordon's my canary, here. He's really dumb, somehow, in a way that makes Paws incomprehensible to him, no matter how many times any number of people try to explain it.
<whitequark>
just missing out all interesting parts and for some obscure reason focusing on an entirely irrelevant implementation detail (CPS)
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE :D
<vigs>
off to dinner o7
<whitequark>
like I swear ELLIOTTCABLE's brain was damaged by fucking node.js and now he thinks in callbacks
<whitequark>
that's the only rational explanation
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark: not sure what interesting parts are left out, unless you mean what *I* consider boring implementation details (garbage collector and memory model, or something?).
<whitequark>
because if you know how to make that work, it is, without exaggeration, a revolutionary idea
<whitequark>
the reasons exceptions suck is that you must manually ensure consistency of internal invariants across all possible codepaths
<whitequark>
which explode exponentially
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's called time-travel, because it was designed so the erroneous code can communicate enough interesting/relevant state back to *the position that could have made things work out*, without allowing polluted, or ‘erroneous’, state (what we call insanity, which is another topic entirely, but tightly involved here), to pollute the rest of the program.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
‘consistency of internal invariants’
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
'splain
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and, as always with Paws, remember to take *everything* with the “I'm not a goddamn computer scientist” grain-of-salt.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm not here to solve the Big Immutable Questions.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm here to design new interfaces, to programmers.
<whitequark>
one doesn't exclude another
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm a glorified Photoshop monkey, but my Photoshop is a lexer.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but:
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
‘consistency of internal invariants’?
<whitequark>
I mean, lexical scoping, which is one of the biggest advances in CS ever? totally an interface thing.
<whitequark>
so
<whitequark>
(actually, significant part of later advances in CS focuses on enhancing your (and sometimes machine's) ability to reason about code, which is directly linked to what you want)
<whitequark>
suppose you have a Point class
<whitequark>
class Point; def initialize; @x = @y = 0; end; end
<whitequark>
now you want to add an assignment method, except check in it that the coordinates are integral
<whitequark>
class Point; protected def check_coordinate(c) raise ArgumentError unless Integer === c; c; end; end
<whitequark>
class Point; def assign(x, y); @x = check_coordinate(x); @y = check_coordinate(y); end; end
<whitequark>
now if you do... point.assign(10, "foo"), your point will be left in an intermediate state
<whitequark>
not unassigned and not assigned.
<whitequark>
here it's benign
<whitequark>
now, if some states of our object are invalid, and an exception is raised during mutating the object... Bad Things could happen
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
hold on, reading, and reasoning =
<whitequark>
hence for each combination of interleaved mutation and exception raising codepath, there should be a relevant finalizing handler ("ensure") which restores the state back to sanity
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
invalid, as in dangerous, yeah
<whitequark>
it's especially bad in C++, where you could easily get dangling references that way and whatnot;
<whitequark>
being one of the major reasons why exceptions are often a big no-no in C++ codebases (eg Android forcibly gets rid of them in all vendored code (!))
<whitequark>
but it's equally as bad in any other language with exceptions and mutation
<whitequark>
i.e. anything except Haskell, likely.
<whitequark>
invalid not as in "dangerous"
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
well. I don't know about safety, and I'm pretty sure that'd be an excruciating, but unreasonably interesting, discussion to have, but transactions are what we're applying to the *user-unfriendliness* of having to write those ensure-blocks
<whitequark>
invalid as "should be impossible by the spec", meaning your and/or external code doesn't expect that state and hence basically ignores its existence
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I can't remember much of the specifics. I guess I'll drag you into the conversation when I start spec'ing that part.
<whitequark>
well, could as well call that "dangerous"
<whitequark>
well
<whitequark>
paws is gc'd, so memory safety doesn't concern you
<whitequark>
now it's only about how easy it is to maintain your own invariants
<whitequark>
ELLIOTTCABLE: do tell me other things
<whitequark>
and
<whitequark>
I should explain you one more time why your CPS thing is worthless
<whitequark>
I've been keeping this explanation in mind since autumn
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
yes?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
something forthcoming?
<whitequark>
not right now, I wanna sleep
<whitequark>
remind me tomorrow
<purr>
<eboyjr> Flies are more or less positively charged, correct?
<whitequark>
I completely fucked up my schedule so we'll have a lot of time to talk
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
didn't realize you were still alive
<joelteon>
pwstore-fast is cool
<whitequark>
serafie_: anyway, units are arbitrary and I can and will use any well-defined ones
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so much ugh
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm in a mood. I don't like the mood.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
My nipples hurt.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
This is very, very strange.
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark: you never told me anything about your objections to my approach to a pervasive CPS semantic
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
terrible night.
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
goddamn shovel.
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<glowcoil_>
ELLIOTTCABLE: i'm begging you
<glowcoil_>
ELLIOTTCABLE: why is this happening
<glowcoil_>
ELLIOTTCABLE: the point of opening irssi in tmux is so that it *doesn't* close when you disconnect
<purr>
<elliottcable> hey dnyy come be a huge faggot with me
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
glowcoil_: remind me tomorrow, that I promised to poke around, and I promise to poke around.
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
crashing now. exhausted off my tits.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
did a lot of refactoring on the spec, but feeling really terrible about it.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
very much in a “this is a terrible idea why am I doing any of this” mood.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Looking at Paws again has had exactly the expected result: reminding me why the fuck I quit programming.
<glowcoil_>
ELLIOTTCABLE: ok cool thx <3
<glowcoil_>
IS ANYBODY NERVOUS
<glowcoil_>
I'M RED 2 GO
<glowcoil_>
I'M RED 2 GO
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<purr>
<alexgordon> a python script, to generate a grammar, to pass to a compiler compiler, to generate the C++ source for a compiler, to be compiled by a C++ compiler
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
glowcoil: discouraged as fuck about the whole project, after last night.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
It was a bad night, all around, but yeah.
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<glowcoil>
hi alexgordon
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: :(
<alexgordon>
hi glowcoil
<alexgordon>
hi sad ELLIOTTCABLE
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
hi notsad alexgordon
<glowcoil>
just finished a midterm, have another tomorrow and a big cs assignment
<glowcoil>
after that i have a bit of free time
<glowcoil>
which i could devote to paws/hands
<glowcoil>
alexgordon: you know hands right
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: hands is your paws?
<alexgordon>
hm it's really hard to figure out which bits of furrow to write in C++ and which to write in Furrow
<alexgordon>
of the standard library I mean
<glowcoil>
alexgordon: yeah it's the thing that's like everything is a generator
<glowcoil>
alexgordon: sort of query language/comprehensions everywhere
<alexgordon>
right
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<alexgordon>
SQL!
<alexgordon>
pawsql
<alexgordon>
I think if I write it in furrow then that will be beneficial because it will show up deficiencies in the language
<joelteon>
ya
<alexgordon>
and also make me strive to optimize it
<alexgordon>
yeah
<alexgordon>
so it's worth it over the long term
<alexgordon>
even if there's a performance hit in the short term
<alexgordon>
I could even write it in C++ and Furrow
<alexgordon>
and compare
<alexgordon>
some stuff like getting the first element of an array is way easier in furrow
<alexgordon>
/ first :: [A] -> A
<alexgordon>
template<typename A>
<alexgordon>
static Error<A> first(List<A> xs) {
<alexgordon>
if (xs.size())
<alexgordon>
return Error<A>(xs[0]);
<alexgordon>
else
<alexgordon>
return Error<A>();
<alexgordon>
}
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: aaaand?
<glowcoil>
uggggh how do i get java + jogl in an applet working
<glowcoil>
fuck java
<glowcoil>
alexgordon: was basically just going to say that that's effectively paws
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: jancok Jawa
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: that's fuck java in javanese
<glowcoil>
alexgordon: neat
<alexgordon>
xD
<alexgordon>
I'm going to call my next programming language "English"
<alexgordon>
won't be confusing at all
<glowcoil>
neat
<alexgordon>
:P
<glowcoil>
i'm going to call my next programming language "Javanese"
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: one problem I was thinking about yesterday was how to implement matrices
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: basa jawa
<glowcoil>
oh yeah since i'm in linear algebra atm i've really been liking them and wondering how to make them good
<glowcoil>
as always apl and j have valuable lessons here
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: furrow (like haskell) has no way of representing a number in a type
<alexgordon>
in C++ you can do
<alexgordon>
Matrix<2, 2>
<alexgordon>
I don't really want to add that feature _just_ for matrices
<glowcoil>
well it's not just for matrices
<glowcoil>
it's like the canonical example of dependent types
<glowcoil>
length typed vecs
<alexgordon>
yeah but you can just call that Vec2
<alexgordon>
pretty standard in the game engine world
<alexgordon>
nobody can be arsed to type Vec<2>
<glowcoil>
not geometric vecs
<alexgordon>
and nobody uses vectors above size 4
<glowcoil>
prevent tail []
<alexgordon>
?
<glowcoil>
and relativistic versions of miegakure do for their five-velocities
<glowcoil>
tail [] errosr in haskell
<glowcoil>
compilefails in agda
<alexgordon>
yeah I'm talking about compile-time sizing
<alexgordon>
not runtime
<alexgordon>
but Vec2 is nicer to type than Vec<2>
<glowcoil>
well arr2 is nicer to type than arr[2] but you don't see that being the syntax
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
5:47 PM <glowcoil> as always apl and j have valuable lessons here
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE :D
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I like glowcoil's QFT mechanism
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: but you DO see game engines having Vec2 instead of Vec<2>
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm gonna steal that for purr, somehow, someday
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
kind of the opposite of war.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
wat*
<alexgordon>
because fuck those extra < > for something you type every 7 seconds
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
hey, ohhmaar, now's a good time to listen. They're talking about CS instead of AS.
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: i made it myself out of copypaste <3
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: anyway it's slightly more important for matrices because matrix multiplication only works on some sizes
<alexgordon>
so if you have the size in the type, you can enforce that at compile time
<alexgordon>
also there's n^2 as many types
<glowcoil>
right though then you want to parametrize over it
<glowcoil>
esp when doing machine learning style linear algebar
<glowcoil>
algebra
<alexgordon>
but still, it seems like a big language feature to add for just Matrices and perhaps Vectors
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“and relativistic versions of miegakure do for their five-velocities” the fuck
<glowcoil>
big ass vectors
<glowcoil>
right?
<alexgordon>
ass vectors?
<alexgordon>
I dunno ask ELLIOTTCABLE
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: you know miegakure
<glowcoil>
alexgordon: ya we read xkcd
<alexgordon>
std ass vectors
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: doesn't know machine learning does he
<glowcoil>
i know this from an enthusiast friend and the first video of an online course
<glowcoil>
and wikipedia
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
nope.
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: I feel like most vectors above size 5 will be dynamically sized
<glowcoil>
also i mean least squares projection shit
<glowcoil>
is regression
<glowcoil>
and that's like
<glowcoil>
dynamically sized
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: miegakure is a 4d puzzle game
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
INSPIRED BY FLATLAND
<glowcoil>
ya
<glowcoil>
i'm really excited for it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
OH MAH FUCKIN' GOD BRB LOOKING FOR MAC VERSION
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: SO WHAT DO I DO
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
have you read flatter land?
<alexgordon>
this is supposed to be a bare bones language -_-
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: i have read chapters of it
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: it has relativity and hyperbolic shit right?
<glowcoil>
was very neat
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
yeah
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
re: Paws,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
wasn't asking you to contribute.
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: but yeah basically my five-velocity joke was that, alexgordon said games only need 4d, but this one experimental puzzle game uses relativity and conceivably uses four-velocities, and if you combine that with miegakure which does use 4 vectors, you have 5-velocities
<glowcoil>
anyway fuck it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
It *all* feels like a failure, at the moment. Conceptually, as well as as a project.
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: oh
<glowcoil>
:(
<glowcoil>
i really disagree
<glowcoil>
i feel like the heart of paws
<glowcoil>
is unique and hasn't been achieved
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I suppose the best way I can put it is … my IRC channel is too big, thus my programming language must be a crock of shit.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE hahaha
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'm fairly well convinced, by other life events in the recent past, that I'm basically Steve Jobs.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: someone needs to make it
<alexgordon>
and document it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
There's some sort of strange reality-distortion field around me, that makes bad ideas sound like good ones.
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: I've been saying this for what, 4 years?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh, I know. I always agreed.
<alexgordon>
paws is an idea in your head
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
But it never *clicked*, until I noticed similar things happening in real life.
<alexgordon>
micah's head doesn't even contain paws, it contains hands
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh, no, it clearly contains both
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
you conflate “Paws is an idea in one person's head, and that person is not me, so it is it not in my head” and “Paws is an idea in other peoples' heads, but not in my head” as the same thing.
<glowcoil>
i am just really fucking tired of alexgordon's paws mysticism
<glowcoil>
like, sick to fucking death
<glowcoil>
i am sorry
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
he has a really good point, though, *outside* of what he's actually saying
<glowcoil>
like i understand that alexgordon does not devote a lot of time or brainspace to paws and this is just a friend channel
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
if you take the word “Paws” out of anything he says, and replace it with “Paws' Fullness” …
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: you just summed up everything I ever said in here
<glowcoil>
but
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
or even replace it with “A Whole Paws”
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: paws is mystical to me, what can I saw
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
he believes nobody knows anything about Paws except me. Which is wrong.
<glowcoil>
there you go again
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: look at the spec and note all the #incomplete sections
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: those are the bits I don't understand
* glowcoil
sighs really a fucking lot
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
But there is *truth* in that nobody knows *most* of Paws, except me. /=
* ELLIOTTCABLE
laughs
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
gods, we're doing this again
<glowcoil>
ok take:
<glowcoil>
Io, Lua, and JavaScript
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ohhmaar: Hello. Let me teach you Paws. Just to prove alexgordon wrong, and calm glowcoil down.
<glowcoil>
that is all the object semantics and shit
<glowcoil>
there.
<glowcoil>
that's all that stuff
<glowcoil>
ok now
<alexgordon>
CALM DOWN DEAR
<glowcoil>
take the everything is generators that i have said
<glowcoil>
there you have the execution semantics
<glowcoil>
you understand paws, PERFECTLY, from a bird's eye view
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: I understand the general description of paws
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: but, what I don't understand are all the little details
<glowcoil>
you are literally doing a paws of the gaps thing here
<alexgordon>
LOL
<purr>
LOL
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Paws of the gaps?
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: ok, but you don't understand something until you can explain it to others. There's no way I could explain paws to others
<alexgordon>
that's because I don't have complete 100% understanding myself
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
SHOULD I WORK ON THIS GODDAMN SPEC OR NOT
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
AND WHY SHOULD I, IF YES
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ಠ_ಠ
<glowcoil>
alexgordon: well, i suggested a good deal of the details of paws
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: YES YOU'RE ALMOST DONE, JUST FINISH THE DAMN SPEC THEN THE FUN CAN BEGIN
<glowcoil>
alexgordon: so like it's between both our heads
<glowcoil>
alexgordon: whereas i don't feel like it's fruitful to go over stupid details with you that will justr esult in you pushing your paws of the gaps on to other sections
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Hunkerin' is the new official activity of #ELLIOTTCABLE, by the way.
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: well whatever, you know? let's not meta argue
<joelteon>
glowcoil loves meta-arguing
<alexgordon>
I'd rather talk about dependent typing in agda or paws spec or something productive
<joelteon>
so do I
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
/=
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so very not motivated to care about this. Ugh.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I *almost* felt good about this, yesterday. *Almost*. Was super-productive.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whitequark pretty much nailed it:
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: make an outline of all the sections missing the spec.Then write them, don't worry about making it understandable
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: after all this time I still want to make an implementation...
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
wat that's terrible advice
<alexgordon>
I'll be damned if I don't implement paws eventually
<alexgordon>
it's been all this time
<alexgordon>
HEY
<alexgordon>
I could do it in furrow :D
<alexgordon>
trololol
<purr>
trololol
<glowcoil>
if i didn't have to write this stupid fucking opengl game i would be implementing hands right now
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: what game?
<alexgordon>
oh in java?
<alexgordon>
javanese
<glowcoil>
for cs class
<glowcoil>
they made the game
<glowcoil>
we have to remake it exactly
<glowcoil>
then add our own minuscule creative twist
<alexgordon>
why are you pink
<glowcoil>
why am i pink
<alexgordon>
yeah all your messages are in pink
<alexgordon>
oh I clicked your name
<alexgordon>
glowcoil: heh you should have made it for ios
<alexgordon>
oh java
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
Little sister:
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
“If I can convince dad to buy you a Tesla, will you make me a website *then*?”
Sgeo has joined #elliottcable
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I can't
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
even breathe
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
right now
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: with funny or stress or what
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
laughing
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
just, it's, really funny
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: how come you didn't have a sister but now you do
<glowcoil>
well that's definitely a message i can only imagine you receving
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
who said I didn't, and who said I do?
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: nobody knew you had a sister until a week or two ago
<glowcoil>
she hasn't been mentioned until fairly recently is all alexgordon is saying
<alexgordon>
it's like dirty den
<alexgordon>
gone for years, then suddenly part of every episode
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: so are you going to make her a website?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
lolnope
<purr>
lolnope
* alexgordon
looks for his paws
<glowcoil>
lolol i'd make a website for a tesla
<glowcoil>
ELLIOTTCABLE: can i have the tesla
<glowcoil>
and ghostwrite the website
<alexgordon>
ah found it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
no, but a guy nearly sold me his Roadster for 40k.
<alexgordon>
ok let's fill in the gaps
<alexgordon>
-spec @ alexgordon
<purr>
alexgordon: Paws' half-arsed Version 10 specification <http://ell.io/ihQzs>
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
fine
* ELLIOTTCABLE
reads
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I need to get out of bed and shower and shit
<alexgordon>
fortunately I put TODOs in here
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but I am a bad person so lol no
<purr>
lol
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: you're in BED?!
<alexgordon>
ugh you renamed everything :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
lol.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
really doesn't matter.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
naming is trivial in this case.
<alexgordon>
"// Excuse the esoliott"
<alexgordon>
LOL
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
esoliott?
<alexgordon>
esoteric + elliott
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: ok so I'm good now I found my implementation
<alexgordon>
sooo much easier
<alexgordon>
ELLIOTTCABLE: so yeah, as I've been saying, just need write the #incompletes
<alexgordon>
then I should be able to finish this?
* ELLIOTTCABLE
nods
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
writing now
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
me shrugs
<purr>
¯\(º_o)/¯
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
double-check your advance() against the new documentation.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's completely re-written, and includes algorithmic purpose that had previously been segregated away elsewhere, so you'll likely need to re-write it.