<VictorBjelkholm>
however, searching for ".ipfsignore" brought me a bunch of other solutions, like "mv folder .folder && ipfs add -r . && mv .folder folder"
<VictorBjelkholm>
so thanks for the pointer lgierth
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<lgierth>
you're welcome i guess :)
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<omnigoat>
I'd probably know the answer to this if I completely understood what was going on but what's the reason for 'curl publicgateway/ipfs/hash' returning a response immediately but 'ipfs cat hash' takes about two years to show any output?
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<omnigoat>
ah, nevermind. adding the remote as a bootstrap peer did the trick
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<onlnr>
how much upload speed and storage I need to give in order to use ipfs
<onlnr>
how can you think this is the future, when almost all the people who commented on that post thinks it is not
<Kubuxu>
onlnr: IPFS stores only what you uses
<Kubuxu>
bandwidth wise IPFS isn't yet optimized and has pasive 10/10kB/s upkeep but otherwise it is the same as normal HTTP
<Kubuxu>
onlnr: 10 years ago people said that streaming fullHD movies via Internet wasn't possible.
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<onlnr>
people don't want to broadcast their ipfs browsing history and serve it. Also many browse web with tablets etc with 16gb hd space. Sure there will be more hd space in future tablets, but so will there be larger files they want to download online. Then the old hardware are useless on ipfs as tthey wouldnt have any hd space to share
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<Kubuxu>
You don't have to, you could be a IPFS parasite and not reseed data, it still is better than HTTP because ISP can follow trends and store frequently used data locally
<Kubuxu>
Nothing forces you to store data
<Kubuxu>
nothing forces you to reseed it
<onlnr>
and it's estimated, that ppl turning into parasites will not make the system fail?
<onlnr>
if most want to do it
<Kubuxu>
no as it is still much better than HTTP where content can't be rehosted at all
<Kubuxu>
the original host goes down, there goes data that was on it, it is like burning books
<Kubuxu>
reading the comments many people are afraid that by reseeding the data could be manipulated
<onlnr>
Yes, but then there is the other problem, that when people post something online, and then they want to remove it, it becomes impossible. On http you could get rid of it and hope no one took copies of it, but on ipfs does some other end user even know that the original poster wanted to remove it?
<Kubuxu>
which isn't true
<Kubuxu>
You could find users having the content and try communicating with them, but really there is no pruning things for the internet.
<Kubuxu>
Internet doesn't forget, it might merely shift it to the background.
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<onlnr>
well http server forgets your content if you remove it, and the person trying to access it sees that it was removed
<onlnr>
and it works like the content uploader wanted
<onlnr>
in many cases
<onlnr>
so there is no solution to this "problem". It's exactly what many people want
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<onlnr>
how does it work on ipfs with dynamic content exactly? If I post a comment on a forum. Some people reads it. I go edit it. Now if those who had read it goes to read it again, will they reload the original posters edited version automatically? How about a new user who only sees the edited version, will they automatically download the newest version from the original poster?
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<M-aatchison>
Caching
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<onlnr>
what would it mean in the case of user going to read the comment who has cached or has not cached the comment, which version they see
<onlnr>
should there be some last modified blueprint on every file served. But updating all your hosted files to newer versions sounds like really bw heavy stuff
<onlnr>
looking for updates on tons or millions of files, in order to be able to serve up to date content
<onlnr>
or if you are a creator of some popular content, you would need to broadcast to millions of users that your content is updated
<onlnr>
if it works other way around
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<onlnr>
where can I read these details?
<Kubuxu>
there are ways to broadcast things to millions of users with very little cost in p2p networks
<onlnr>
And why is there services like maidsafe? And what did freenet do wrong?
<onlnr>
sounds like ipfs is just one of a dozen services like some cryptocoins, that will never become adapted
<onlnr>
so the solution for the end user wanting to remove some of their content: the content creator in the end can always edit their content to something that tell other people that they wanted to remove their content (edit comment on some forum if possible, edit their own html site to blank page or similar, edit their 'tweets') and broadcast it to users who have cached the earlier version, who then eventually update
<onlnr>
their caches to this last edition, and then the content creator can safely remove it from their own cache (as long as someone updated their cache before it) and be happy that the newest version floating around is the version she is happy with, and that eventually all peers will likely see the newest edit (except some internet archiver)
<onlnr>
is that how it works?
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<Kubuxu>
People store an entry that is cryptographic link to immutable data. This link can only be updated by original creator.
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<onlnr>
dynamic content I wonder..
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<onlnr>
someone should write a blog post where answer to all those techcrunch article negative comments in a way that make them feel comfortable with ipfs, and then also tell why ipfs is better than maidsafe, freenet and others
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<Codebird>
Do we actually want the ability to remove content? It's possible to have versioning but still preserve old versions.
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<Codebird>
As for leechers, Kubuxu makes a good point: IPFS under worst-case-scenario leeching just degenerates into something much like HTTP anyway: One host, many clients.
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<onlnr>
If I am being a parasite and not caching files, what is the 10kB/s upkeep doing?
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<Kubuxu>
It is DHT traffic that can be optimized.
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<Kubuxu>
Just nobody did it yet.
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<onlnr>
how much can it be optimized?
<Kubuxu>
a lot
<Kubuxu>
down to almost 0 like bittorrent
<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs] diasdavid pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vVf2F
<ipfsbot>
js-ipfs/master 6421678 David Dias: Merge pull request #99 from ipfs/feature/object-patch...
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<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs] diasdavid deleted feature/object-patch at a3f73e6: https://git.io/vVf2b
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<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs] diasdavid pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vVf2x
<ipfsbot>
js-ipfs/master 5423f04 Stephen Whitmore: moves temp-repo creation into its own module
<ipfsbot>
js-ipfs/master cd6797d David Dias: Merge pull request #98 from noffle/tests-setup-teardown...
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<iamgod>
T
<apiarian>
still digging around in the code, maybe somebody could point me in the right direction? is there a way to plug into a go-ipfs daemon instance to exchange streamed data between nodes in the swarm? i see that there are ways to connect to a peer, but how does one then open up a stream with them?
<tmg>
apiarian: you'll have to fix the imports to libp2p
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<apiarian>
tmg: right, but the fsrepo.Open fails if there's already an ipfs daemon running with that node. and i'd like to keep the basic go-ipfs thing running, just piggy-back on it with a bit of extra functionality in stream communication between nodes
<ed_t>
ipfs[13016]: 05:01:59.503 ERROR mdns: mdns lookup error: failed to bind to any multicast udp port mdns.go:130
<ed_t>
.40-rc3 should I worry?
<ed_t>
looks like no peers are connected. Second time I've seen this with the daemon running for 8-16h
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<onlnr>
that unoptimized 10kB/s dht upkeep, is there any ETAs when ipfs will get rid of that?
<onlnr>
or shrink it
<wrouesnel>
So a question: I know I can simply firewall everything, but how technically difficult would it be to ensure an ipfs instance would stand separate of "the" ipfs at the moment?
<apiarian>
wrouesnel: you mean not let your node connect to the outside world? maybe drop your bootstrap entries?
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<wrouesnel>
just wondering how aggressively it would try to connect out I guess?
<tmg>
apiarian: I think for that you'd want to use a Shell[github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs-api]
<tmg>
apiarian: ...if you want to do the streaming with go
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<apiarian>
tmg: which looks like it provides a nice golang wrapper around the commands that are available from the bin/ipfs daemon. but that program does not seem to provide a "here's a bidirectional stream with the peer your requested. go nuts!" command
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<tmg>
you will have to write the "app" yourself
<apiarian>
duplicating all of the go-ipfs functionality while only extending it with the little swarm stream connection bit?
<apiarian>
i'm fairly sure i've read somewhere that libp2p is supposed to enable multiple programs to reuse a single connection between peers for different streams
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<apiarian>
well i guess i'll see if i can link something go-libp2p based and have it reuse the running ipfs daemon's swarm information
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<revolve>
Is there anything about using ipfs for just routing?
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<computerfreak>
hey guys, is 4.0 official already?
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<noffle>
computerfreak: 0.4.0 isn't released just yet :)
<computerfreak>
damn im waiting so long xD
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<apiarian>
can anybody shed any light on this error while trying to call NewStreamWithPeer? panic: dial attempt failed: failed to add conn to ps.Swarm: message did not have trailing newline
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<apiarian>
hmm, so i've managed to set up a pair of swarm entities but it seems that i can't use the same node-id between these swarm stream talking apps and go-ipfs. so, maybe i'm going about this the wrong way? maybe i should be creating a separate node-id for the streaming connection, and if i want to use the streams to and from that streaming node in conjunction with a regular go-ipfs node, i just link the stream's node-id from the go-ipfs
<apiarian>
node-id's ipns? does this make sense?
<apiarian>
because there should technically be only one thing in the world that claims to be a specific node-id?
<apiarian>
(is that a truth?)
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<redfish>
onlnr: re discussion on relevance of ipfs: i find it liberating to think of it strictly in the context of the current client-server web -- at a high level, the user won't notice if the internet moved from HTTP to IPFS.
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<redfish>
i find it misleading to think of it as a p2p system; that's an implementation detail. Content would be hosted primarily by commercial parties interested in that content, just like it is now. IPFS strictly adds a capability: elegant mirroring.
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<lgierth>
it's a hypermedia protocol
<lgierth>
where content doesn't strictly have an origin
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<lgierth>
i.e. content is not bound to a certain server (or set of servers)
<redfish>
onlnr: also, dynamic content is not conceptually difficult either: most content (like your fb posts), are already effectively immutable; entries in key-value stores in fb's data centers. Immutability does not prevent dynamic content at all; again, this is implementation detail that is irrelevant to the user, who can be presented with editable forum posts easily.
<redfish>
onlnr: so I would be weary of comparisson with freenet; it misses the whole point.
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<redfish>
onlnr: lest you think IPFS is some weird unworkable idea conjured up by some p2p junkie: content-addressed networking has a long record in the literature: here's a starting point, see related work for more: http://www.parc.com/publication/2318/networking-named-content.html
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<onlnr>
I see thanks. I saved your answers for reference :) I already mentioned ipfs elsewhere, and freenet was brought up there so it feels like knowing the difference is of interest to many
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<demize>
And content-addressed storage is even older.
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<prototrout>
Oh nice, there's an IPFS room :D
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<apiarian>
when I `ipfs cat` something that i had previously `echo -n hello` into, i see exactly "hello", but when I `ipfs object data` that same thing, I see extra bits of cruft around the "hello" what is that cruft (and how do i parse it out programmatically?)
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<geir_>
Ref the discussion yesterday. I've finished my transparent proxy :) Looks like it's working great
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<apiarian>
(the extra cruft might have been from add. not sure. but using `ipfs object put` with explicit data doesn't add cruft.)
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<dignifiedquire>
lgierth: whyrusleeping daviddias richardlitt where is everybody, it's been dead silent today oO
<dignifiedquire>
are all traveling already?
<lgierth>
dignifiedquire: yeah i think so
<lgierth>
haad and daviddias just landed
<lgierth>
when are you arriving btw
<dignifiedquire>
lgierth: didn't I tell you yesterday :P
<dignifiedquire>
tomorrow at 1600
<lgierth>
ah right
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<apiarian>
alright, so for those following along at home: it is possible to use go-ipfs/core and friends to create a minimal little extra node that automatically bootstraps itself automatically off of the main bin/ipfs(~/.ipfs) node, then publish that extra node's id into the main node's ipns. then clients that want to setup a streaming side-channel with main-node's machine can query for that extra node id, and connect to it if they can. proof of
<apiarian>
concept proven!
<lgierth>
not easily with go-ipfs, at the moment
<apiarian>
(at least it works on my one machine all through 127.0.0.1 and 192.168.x.x) (hopefully this same process would function on a full pair of ipfs nodes across the internet)
<lgierth>
you could try go-libp2p for now
<apiarian>
i did, but go-libp2p doesn't give me all the other nice bits of ipfs like name resolution and routing, does it?
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<apiarian>
i did manage to get something working with go-libp2p/net/swarm, but it was pretty flaky
<lgierth>
apiarian: sorry i don't have a good answer for you right now
<lgierth>
apiarian: i don't think that PR ^ will make it in its current form
<lgierth>
but maybe there's something in there that you can work with?
<lgierth>
or something that you can fit into go-ipfs
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<apiarian>
lgierth: i've managed to create a functional workaround that allows me to "extend" a ipfs node with a corenet.Listen-er behind it. that's enough for my current plans, I think. still working up a general architectural design for this "interplanetary-game-system" if it comes down to it and I really do find that I can't live without the sort of stream extension mentioned in that PR, I might try to bring it up to scratch. but I suspect that
<apiarian>
i'll be needing a "server" process anyway, so I think it might as well incorporate my workaround extension
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