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<VictorBjelkholm>
by using the dnslink stuff for having a site deployed via IPFS, is there any way I can get TLS?
<VictorBjelkholm>
certificate is just valid for gateway.ipfs.io and ipfs.io
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<whyrusleeping>
VictorBjelkholm: if you have your own tls, then it should work like normal... (although i'm not really certain on how all that works)
<VictorBjelkholm>
whyrusleeping, I'm not running any software to share my site, pretty sure the whole infrastructure is IPFS
<VictorBjelkholm>
and DO
<whyrusleeping>
VictorBjelkholm: ooooh, hrm... thats an interesting problem... lgierth would be the best to ask
<VictorBjelkholm>
just a TXT record I DNS /ipfs/QmWYWPvW5BL7sMSCLCZnYoXeSKLQ5zLaom3QhmgKpdWF8K which somehow gets that directory into my browser
<VictorBjelkholm>
I'm guessing richardlitt will have some ideas too
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<lgierth>
VictorBjelkholm: yeeah it's tricky...
<lgierth>
github pages does it by handing out *.github.io
<lgierth>
i wanna do something similar
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<lgierth>
for ipns, i wanna hand out <hash>.ipns.name
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<lgierth>
we could do something like <hash>.ipfs.link for ipfs objects
<lgierth>
but if you want it for your own domain, you need to give use the cert ;) or deploy deploy your own server
<lgierth>
no other i'm options that i'm aware of
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<apiarian>
if i've added public bootstrap nodes to an iptb generated config, is there anything else i need to do to make it pingable from outside my network? for some reason my normal node running ipfs init generated config is pingable without problems, but the iptb generated node can ping out but not back in
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<lgierth>
whyrusleeping: ^
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<whyrusleeping>
apiarian: i've never testing making iptb clusters talk to the main network
<whyrusleeping>
i always just use it for testing things locally
<whyrusleeping>
i would check to make sure that the iptb nodes do get properly bootstrapped
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<apiarian>
they seem to. they show ipfs swarm peers lists increasing. i'll try again tomorrow, maybe there's something weird with the tethered phone connection i was using to test things
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<whyrusleeping>
lol, multiple ipfs nodes on a tethered phone connection?
<whyrusleeping>
i can't say that would work all that well
<whyrusleeping>
especially since i don't think phone networks support any sort of NAT traversal (no inbound dials allowed)
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<flobs>
thats what vpns are for
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<Qwertie>
Do I need to install gx to update ipfs now?
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<jbenet_>
wow there's 400+ people here now
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<Stskeeps>
awesome technology attracts many people ;)
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<jbenet>
:)
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<whyrusleeping>
Qwertie: you only need it if building from source
<whyrusleeping>
and the ipfs makefile can install it for you
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<dignifiedquire>
whyrusleeping: uups right I tend to forget that I'm not the only one with a family ;)
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<lgierth>
whyrusleeping: nginx metrics on the gateway dashboard now
<yuvipanda>
If I wanted to host my blog on blog.yuvi.in
<yuvipanda>
and serve it up to people on the web
<yuvipanda>
without having to have IPFS specific stuff in my URL (so it will just be blog.yuvi.in/thing, not blog.yuvi.in/ipfs/<hash>/thing'
<yuvipanda>
is that doable atm? does something exist for this already?
<yuvipanda>
so IPFS will only be used by the author - others can also read the blog using IPNS, but can also not know any of this exists at all and just go to blog.yuvi.in and read it
<yuvipanda>
I think if I proxy back with nginx or something from blog.yuvi.in to $gateway/ipns/<Hash>/ it would just work
<yuvipanda>
assuming relative links everywhere
<lgierth>
yuvipanda: yes you can just set a dnslink
<lgierth>
ipfs will see the Host: header and turn it into a lookup for /ipns/<the-host-header>
<yuvipanda>
so the IPFS gateway already has this functionality.
<yuvipanda>
that is super awesome!
<lgierth>
which in turn will look for the TXT record
<lgierth>
yeah :)
<lgierth>
it's how we serve ipfs.io
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<yuvipanda>
is there a complete writeup available somewhere? Using this for blogging, from a 'this is how you start and setup!' to 'this is how you pin it to make sure it does not go away!'?
<lgierth>
we have on in the making, a PR on github.com/ipfs/blog
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<Codebird>
Cool.
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<M-davidar>
VictorBjelkholm: is this related to that npm stuff daviddias was doing?
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<deltab>
VictorBjelkholm: do you know about gx? #gx
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<onla>
in ipfs world, isnt it easier for anyone to collect data on different users internet habits, if you dont use tor or change vpn ip often? Like you can cache a lot of stuff, and then use a tool to find what same cache some ip has been connected?
<onla>
average user who doesnt want to take extra steps to get vpn or use tor, but still wouldn't want to downgrade their internet privacy then wouldnt want to use ipfs
<onla>
are there some click to cloak features planned, that would allow people an easier way for more privacy? Or is it technically not possible
<Codebird>
Changing VPN wouldn't help, as each node is also identified by a unique public key.
<patagonicus>
There was a "Getting started with IPFS" type event at 32C3 in addition to the lightning talk, right? What did you do during that? Just installed IPFS on people's laptops, showed them things that can be done with IPFS and answered questions? How many people showed up?
<Codebird>
You're right, though: IPFS is monitorable, more so than HTTP. You can't actually determine what someone has been viewing directly, but you can determine a yes-no response to see if they have been accessing any specified object.
<rain1>
sounds like a waste of time
<onla>
can you determine what someone has been viewing directly on http? Google on ipfs dominant world would be caching every single file on the system, and run analyzers on othem. Do they get more or less data than what they currently get
<patagonicus>
I doubt Google would be storing everything they access via IPFS - that would be way too much even for them (especially since they don't get anything from doing so). They'd download data, process it and discard it same as they are doing now with HTTP.
<onla>
they would get info on people using services, and be able to sell that information?
<onla>
so best option would be some tor-like 3rd party tool, but which would not slow things down, be seamless, and would bring no negative side effects to the user experience
<patagonicus>
But just partial information unless they just spam the net with nodes.
<geir_>
As I see it the problem is not big companies like google. But your neighbor could also check what you have been doing online
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<patagonicus>
Yeah, targeting some users actively is much more effective than doing "mass-survailence" by just providing content and logging who's requesting it.
<VictorBjelkholm>
M-davidar, no, is not related. Different approach
<VictorBjelkholm>
deltab, yeah, I do. I feel like it's too much, to write a package manager from scratch
<Kubuxu>
they could check: have he seen exactly this file
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<onla>
is it technically possible to have a 3rd party cloak like tor, but that woould only take a margin away from your bandwidth and ping etc? I havent tried tor lately, but last time I tried it on something, I noticed the difference
<Kubuxu>
it is, tor integration is planned
<onla>
meaning that it was slower than without tor
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<Kubuxu>
tor will always be slower than w/o
<Kubuxu>
there is no way around it
<Kubuxu>
it is like taking 5 flights with intermediary airports instead of flying directly
<onla>
so dht in a vast ipfs system can be optimized to take only margin of bw, but something like a cloak for your ip is not possible. There must be some efficient way to do similar thing tor does
<Kubuxu>
there can't be an effective way to do what tor does
<Kubuxu>
you expend energy and time to cover your tracks
<patagonicus>
Tor needs to do multiple hops, so your latency will always be higher and your bandwidth will be limited to the smallest bw between the nodes.
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<onla>
need to think ouf of the box then
<patagonicus>
Although, as peering is complicated and often not optimized for latency/bandwidth, it can be faster to use a VPN when viewing videos on YouTube for example.
<onla>
I go for a walk and think of a brilliant idea ->
<revolve>
conversely you could use synchrony over tor
<revolve>
onla: dht is just a way of saying p2p routing
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<revolve>
with store (or other) RPCs on top
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<Raptus>
Just how scalable is IPFS?
<Raptus>
Is is possible to add data without needing to be seeder after?
<VictorBjelkholm>
Raptus, someone has to seed the content
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<Raptus>
how big is the "swarm" now? Is it possible to check?
<Raptus>
Thanks btw
<Codebird>
Raptus: Technically someone doesn't have to 'seed' the content. It just needs to be present, and anyone who views it also becomes a new supplier. So you only actually need to send it once. However, if your content is not popular, there's a chance it'll die out unless at least one person has it on pin.
<Raptus>
OK, so as long as "someone" holds the file/link?
<Codebird>
As for the monitoring - an IPFS-like (though without the DAG, which makes it seriously inferior) example of a monitoring-resistant network is Freenet. It's just about impossible to monitor, yes, but it's also very, very slow because nothing is sent directly.
<Codebird>
Performance and privacy have some mutually-exclusive requirements.
<Codebird>
Freenet goes for the privacy extreme, and feels like you're back in 1995 with your dial-up modem. IPFS goes for performance, which does introduce some concerns about ease of monitoring. There are techniques that might partially mitigate that.
<Codebird>
And correct, Raptus.
<Raptus>
was just thinking like checking total size like du -sh or something.
<Raptus>
Thank you for you reply! Not familiar with Freenet though.
<Raptus>
will check it out
<Codebird>
It's an older content-addressed network. A real crypto-anarchist thing - designed to resist all the best efforts of the world's governments and corporations combined. Impossible to monitor or filter or block. It's mostly filled with a combination of hardcore free-speech campaigners and paranoids convinced the lizard people are out to get them on behalf of the illuminati-controlled UN.
<Raptus>
Hahah all right.
<Raptus>
they would probably like the losethename people.
<Raptus>
Anyways.. So when I add data I pretty much add move/transform it over to the local datastore?
<Raptus>
that others can grab
<Raptus>
IPFS is quite awesome
<Kubuxu>
IPFS is awesome
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<Kubuxu>
it is the easiest way to share files for me
<Kubuxu>
with anyone and everywhere
<Kubuxu>
my bot for example has public database
<Raptus>
the DB is stored on IPFS?
<Kubuxu>
anyone can request up-to-date version by running: ?(publish-to-IPFS)
<Kubuxu>
no, it is added to IPFS on request
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<Raptus>
whats the difference?
<Raptus>
might be a stupid Q, but thats me :P
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<Kubuxu>
it is stored in normal filesystem, when you talk about storing something in IPFS I think about exclusively storing in IPFS
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<Raptus>
ait
<Raptus>
but you could put it directly there? :P
<Kubuxu>
I could if I wanted and store just 'current hash in my application'
<Kubuxu>
'current hash'
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<onlnr>
for ways to cloak your ip: is it not possible to create an intelligent medium on the network that would be taking your file request, and then encapsulate your connection with some cloak and redirect to the requested file so that it appears it is this cloak that is requesting the file, then downloading it through that cloak back to your ip
<nothingmuch>
What is a sensible way of importing go-ipfs/path into another go library? it seems like go-ipfs does not follow gx-go's suggestion to not rewrite before publishing? or is there a more sensible go import path than github.com/go-ipfs/path?
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<deltab>
onlnr: yes, that's basically tor
<onlnr>
but why it requires 5 hops and latency problems
<onlnr>
cant it manipulate tcp udp packet directly and just that one change and all good
<onlnr>
or something I am not very educated at these \)
<onlnr>
:)
<deltab>
someone watching that node can see that a request came from you (but not what it is), then the node makes a request and gets a response (which they can read), and then a response is sent to you
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<deltab>
not hard to put the two together
<onlnr>
thats how it works without tor?
<deltab>
with what you described
<onlnr>
oh you mean that node is this medium I talked about
<deltab>
yes
<onlnr>
but if it is not a normal node, but something coded into ipfs
<deltab>
so to obscure that, you can add multiple hops, widely spread out so that they're in different countries
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<deltab>
and you can add random delays, so that when a node receives multiple messages and sends multiple messages, it's not clear which is associated with which
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<onlnr>
could the whole ip system be redone in a way that people would have their ip changing constantly. in ipfs it wouldnt matter if the ip changes, if the domain name is assigned to the hash of the file, and not to the location
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] Stebalien opened pull request #2511: Allow users to override the IPFS API address when fetching dependencies (master...local-api) https://git.io/vVTnT
<deltab>
ip addresses are necessary to send responses back
<onlnr>
well constantly as in every half an hour, or on demand or so
<deltab>
if you change the address on your outgoing request, the response is sent somewhere else and you don't get to see it
<onlnr>
smart ip changer when it sees that it has received response on all requests at that time it changes ip
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<deltab>
that's possible to a degree, but you're limited in which ip address you can use: they all have to route back to you
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<whyrusleeping>
VictorBjelkholm-: interesting stuff on the everythingstays stuff :)
<onlnr>
some more elegant algorithm to generate ip addresses that routes back to you, that it is impossible to decrypt from a number of ip addresses the ones that traces back to you. Maybe if the ISP's pool it uses to give ip to its clients is also changing. Maybe if everyone had 2 IP's overlapping in time, other one expiring, and always ne one coming and evolving like that, then the ISP's pool could also evolve
<onlnr>
without worrying if someone had not got response yet to their request
<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs-api] dignifiedquire created greenkeeper-eslint-2.5.2 (+1 new commit): https://git.io/vVTCw
<ipfsbot>
js-ipfs-api/greenkeeper-eslint-2.5.2 6c80b64 greenkeeperio-bot: chore(package): update eslint to version 2.5.2...
<ipfsbot>
[webui] greenkeeperio-bot opened pull request #305: Update eslint to version 2.5.2
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<deltab>
ipv6 has support for that
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<onlnr>
for what
<deltab>
multiple changing addresses within the local network
<multivac>
[WIKIPEDIA] IPv6#Privacy | "Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6) is the most recent version of the Internet Protocol (IP), the communications protocol that provides an identification and location system for computers on networks and routes traffic across the Internet. IPv6 was developed by the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF..."
<onlnr>
hmm
<onlnr>
can I cloak my ipfs behaviour using ipv6
<deltab>
the network prefix stays the same, for routing
<onlnr>
so with ipv6 it's just as if my last number on the ipv4 was changing every now and then, but nothing to the degree that it would be with this system where isp would be changing the network prefix too constantly
<onlnr>
or basically every part of the ip
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<onlnr>
so using ipv6 someone could still collect the files someone from that local network has connected to
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<onlnr>
info of*
<deltab>
yes
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<onlnr>
what about own mesh networking protocol or system, ever increasing number of IoT helping the network and then put up some 3g and 4g satellites to the orbit and connect them to this mesh network. Then throw in ipfs, and the whole world is connected. You could redefine then the rules for IP/mac and have it easy for end user to change their own address and then there we have a global network connected without ISP.
<onlnr>
Then of course you could connect to this network through ISP's fast cables if you want speed and their IP
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<onlnr>
and if you dont want free ipfs mesh internet
<onlnr>
through local wifi connections or 3g/4g provided for free by elon musk
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<Kubuxu>
There are no 3g and 4g satellites ...
<onlnr>
oh lol I thought I got that right. I googled 4g satellites :)
<onlnr>
3g and 4g connection is not a connection to some satellite where it routes me where I want?
<Kubuxu>
no, it uses local poles
<onlnr>
oh wait yes
<Kubuxu>
your phone is not strong enough to transmit to satellite
<revolve>
is it possible to use ipfs for just the routing protocol?
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<onlnr>
well, anyway, still they could be used for this
<revolve>
I mean, are there any RPCs I have to support apart from find_node?
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<VictorBjelkholm->
whyrusleeping, thanks man :) If you have any brutally honest feedback for me, I'm all ears :)
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<revolve>
VictorBjelkholm: can IPFS be used for just the routing protocol?
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<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs-api] greenkeeperio-bot opened pull request #239: eslint@2.5.3 breaks build
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<VictorBjelkholm>
revolve, not sure about that
<VictorBjelkholm>
I bet whyrusleeping / jbenet knows more about that
<whyrusleeping>
VictorBjelkholm: i was just thinking that you could accomplish your goal of 'not reimplementing all of package management' while using gx under the hood
<whyrusleeping>
we were thinking of having a gx tool that wraps npm
<VictorBjelkholm>
whyrusleeping, I'm not sure. We should probably talk about this because I'm not sure I understand gx fully. If a package uses gx, could there be any fallback to npm?
<VictorBjelkholm>
My main idea is to not break compatibility for people not using ipfs yet
<whyrusleeping>
so, i wrote gx to be incredibly flexible. All that gx itself does is fetch dependencies out of ipfs
<whyrusleeping>
and publish packages into ipfs
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<VictorBjelkholm>
whyrusleeping, just had a chat with jbenet and daviddias about the everythingstays / npm stuff btw
<whyrusleeping>
where it fetches deps to, and what it does to them afterwards is entirely overloadable
<whyrusleeping>
VictorBjelkholm: oh? are you in NY too?
<VictorBjelkholm>
whyrusleeping, ah, I see. Well, so all it does is 'ipfs add . -r' and 'ipfs get $HASH'?
<VictorBjelkholm>
might as well use them as that then, no? :D
<VictorBjelkholm>
whyrusleeping, no, Peru, hangouts
<whyrusleeping>
yeah, its a slightly smarter 'ipfs add -r' and 'ipfs get'
<whyrusleeping>
with hooks to call out to specific logic for whatever you feel like implementing
<daviddias>
.ask voxelot what other ways can I reach out to him. Async convo without having a relay is hard
<multivac>
daviddias: I'll pass that on when voxelot is around.
<VictorBjelkholm>
whyrusleeping, feels like that the `scripts` thing that npm already provides. Also, in gx your reference a package by it's hash in the code, not by the name, no?
<whyrusleeping>
you reference it by hash (since its stored by hash on disk), but you can make symlinks in the post-install as you like
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<VictorBjelkholm>
whyrusleeping, hm, sounds better and better, when you explain it to me. I'll dive deeper into it once I finished lunch with the family
<VictorBjelkholm>
getting angry eyes cast on me, being on irc while eating :/
<whyrusleeping>
VictorBjelkholm: lol, i know the feeling, go have fun :P
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<xelra>
Just imagine the angry eyes you'd get for being on IRC while doing "other" activities. :P xD
<montagsoup>
like fishing. man people hate it when you irc when you're supposed to be fishing
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<voxelot>
daviddias: sorry, i know i need an irc bouncer
<multivac>
voxelot: 2016-03-28 - 19:56:52 <daviddias> ask voxelot what other ways can I reach out to him. Async convo without having a relay is hard
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<VictorBjelkholm>
montagsoup, meh, fishing and irc is ok
<VictorBjelkholm>
watching football and ircing, not so much
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<ipfsbot>
[webui] greenkeeperio-bot opened pull request #306: Update eslint to version 2.5.3
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<daviddias>
voxelot: no need to apologize, I just want to make sure I always want to get back to you
<onlnr>
you could create a matrix account and join to this channel through its matrix-irc bridge and you got a 24/7 connection. All those people with M- before their nicknames are doing so ;)
<VictorBjelkholm>
just noticed that ipfs add/get doesn't preserve permissions. Any plans for that?
<onlnr>
or you would be creating an account to one of the homeservers or so