<lukeb>
I want to build a distributed peer-to-peer conference calling application, I've narrowed my options down to WebRTC and IPFS, I was wondering if any IPFS contributors could sway me to IPFS?
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] whyrusleeping force-pushed feat/provide-storage from d3a2034 to fd96e0c: https://git.io/vouA5
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feat/provide-storage fd96e0c Jeromy: Write providers to disk to avoid memory leaks...
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<M-Sonata>
Personally I'm not sure IPFS is the right choice for large amounts of ephemeral data? If you want to _record_ the call for people to watch later, IPFS is great, but if you're just using it like a telephone I think I wouldn't
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<weex>
the problem with webrtc is that it requires direct connections so probably doesn't scale to conference calls of more than 10-15 people
<weex>
how long does data persist in ipfs at audio call sizes?
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<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs-api] nginnever opened pull request #299: update get-dagNode for buffers (master...patch/object) https://git.io/vozTi
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<lgierth>
weex: right now ipfs does require direct connections too (there's a simple relay included though), and latency isn't good enough yet for audio conferencing
<lgierth>
we'll fix both over the rest of the year
<lgierth>
1) packet switching and an overlay network 2) proper pubsbu
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<r0kk3rz>
lgierth: is there some kind of timeframe for pubsub ooi?
<lgierth>
r0kk3rz: daviddias haad_ ^
<Kubuxu>
lgierth: are there still Protocol's Yubikeys still left?
<lgierth>
nope but i can order one for you
<lgierth>
drop your address in that protocol/logistics issue
<lgierth>
or i'm just gonna get a bag for team week
<Kubuxu>
I will be in Berlin, so we can do that then.
<lgierth>
ok cool
<Kubuxu>
It would be awesome if you could order one for me.
<lgierth>
yep yep
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<lgierth>
Kubuxu: kubuxu about the gateway thing the other day
<lgierth>
i was thinking, all i need is part of the core api
<lgierth>
namely objectGet, and later others for the writable gateway
<lgierth>
we have commands and go-ipfs-api, but i want something in between
<Kubuxu>
Hmm, have you seen my UNIX API issue?
<lgierth>
go-ipfs-api, but backed by a node in the same process, instead of th eapi
<lgierth>
yeah!
<lgierth>
but it's not there yet :)
<Kubuxu>
yeah, it is quite ways ahead
<Kubuxu>
our API just needs redesign, at least this is my view, but I also sometimes fixate on some imperfections.
<Kubuxu>
I don't know how would calling objectGet and reconstructing blocks from that using HTTP API perform.
<Kubuxu>
but there is no other way than try.
<lgierth>
oh i wouldn't go through the http api here (in the gateway=
<lgierth>
)
<Kubuxu>
So how?
<lgierth>
objectGet is basically core.Resolve + unixfs/io.NewDAGReader
<lgierth>
i want something like go-ipfs-api, but backed by an actual node in the same process
<lgierth>
so the signature would basically be NewShell(*core.Node) instead of NewShell(net.URI)
<lgierth>
a service object, so to speak
<lgierth>
then i can have an interface in the gateway which covers only the functions actually used
<lgierth>
and everybody lives
<lgierth>
no more gateway -> core dependency
<Kubuxu>
So code level separation not binary level.
<Kubuxu>
/process level
<lgierth>
we could pull all that logic from core/commands into the service object
<Kubuxu>
What if we defined low level RPC style API, for now internally.
<Kubuxu>
Then we could add transport for that.
<Kubuxu>
Like for example: `open, read, seek`
<Kubuxu>
you should be able to do most things for gateway using that
<lgierth>
what am i gonna do with open read seek
<lgierth>
i just wanna resolve a path and get an io.Reader for that :)
<Kubuxu>
That is what open does, it returns reader handle (or interface in case of go) on which you can then call read and seek.
<lgierth>
an io.ReadSeekCloser
<lgierth>
that's what unixfs/io.NewDAGReader() gets you too :)
<lgierth>
i don't really care so much about the details, as long as we can hide behind service object like thing
<Kubuxu>
If we define very low surface area API like that, it will be super easy to the allow for it to be accessed from different object.
<lgierth>
so that we don't have to rely on internals to do very simple things
<Kubuxu>
Yup
<lgierth>
on the other hand, that'd be *another* api Kubuxu
<lgierth>
while the core api is already there
<Kubuxu>
Yes, but core API is literally CLI.
<lgierth>
not quite
<lgierth>
the cli is one implementation of it
<lgierth>
go-ipfs-api is a subset of the core api too
<Kubuxu>
CLI is just an parsing adapter on that API
<Kubuxu>
and it is 1:1
<lgierth>
yeah ok
<lgierth>
apart from the gateway it'd be useful for things like ipget too
<Kubuxu>
And FUSE.
<lgierth>
and once the socket api exists, we can just swap out the service object
<Kubuxu>
yup, you just make a file descriptor tracking thingymagic that will map local file handles to IDs for socket API
<Kubuxu>
s/you/one
<Kubuxu>
... nothing sounds right in this sentence
<lgierth>
:)
<lgierth>
thingymagic
<Kubuxu>
and it tracks IDs automagically :p
<Kubuxu>
Oh yeah, and if it the API object itself is interface instead of plain methods you can will be able to run outside of inside go-ipfs process without feeling it.
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<Kubuxu>
That is AWESOME
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<lgierth>
yep
<lgierth>
and for bonus points, you don't need to depend on internals
<lgierth>
i'll show you a bit of code in a bit
<Kubuxu>
Yeah, clear separation, as API should look like.
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] lgierth force-pushed extract-gateway from 11bc7ca to 8c192a2: https://git.io/vozP1
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/extract-gateway 4bb17dd Lars Gierth: gateway: remove dead-ish PUT/POST/DELETE support...
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/extract-gateway 8c192a2 Lars Gierth: WIP...
<lgierth>
Kubuxu: is that socket api issue in go-ipfs?
<Kubuxu>
no ipfs/notes
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<lgierth>
Kubuxu: i think i might have asked this the other day, but i forgot -- is offlinemode=0|1 somewhere on the api?
<Kubuxu>
Yes you asked, not it is not. I would like to add it, I don't know where.
<lgierth>
maybe net.offline in ipfs diag sys
<Kubuxu>
Seems like a good idea
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<lgierth>
on the other hand we might not wanna tie actual logic to that debugging tool
<lgierth>
ipfs swarm online
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<Kubuxu>
Seems like it is a good time to buy Eth
<Kubuxu>
As people are dumping Eth and DAO with what have happened.
<Kubuxu>
whyrusleeping: I told you you should have sold Eth two days ago.
<Kubuxu>
at least part of it :p
<lgierth>
aha! insider trading!
<Kubuxu>
but Kraken is down because of load :p
<Kubuxu>
and Frontier is asking exchanges to halt Eth trading until fork is released
<Kubuxu>
Community decided to do hardfork and in that hardfork break consensus rules for this event.
<lgierth>
there's a statement by vitalik somewhere
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<r0kk3rz>
from my understanding, its a great time to buy DAO tokens...
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<Kubuxu>
r0kk3rz: they bounced back again
<Kubuxu>
already
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<r0kk3rz>
all the way to 1/100?
<Kubuxu>
Like it dropped by 40-50% now it is 10% bellow 24h ago
<r0kk3rz>
ah, probably not worth the effort for 10%
<r0kk3rz>
at 40% it was looking good
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<Kubuxu>
yeah, but quite fast traders figured out that it isn't really affecting Eth just DAO so they were buying, then everyone was buying again
<r0kk3rz>
well at a guaranteed 40% gain im not surprised :)
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] lgierth created revert-multi-gopath (+1 new commit): https://git.io/vozA2
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/revert-multi-gopath f6c62c7 Lars Gierth: Revert "Makefile, bin: Support multiple GOPATH components"...
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] lgierth opened pull request #2862: Revert "Makefile, bin: Support multiple GOPATH components" (master...revert-multi-gopath) https://git.io/vozAy
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] lgierth force-pushed revert-multi-gopath from f6c62c7 to ad461c6: https://git.io/vozA7
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/revert-multi-gopath ad461c6 Lars Gierth: Revert "Makefile, bin: Support multiple GOPATH components"...
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<Kubuxu>
Yey, I found a way to run test many times without recompiling.
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<Kubuxu>
lgierth: do you know if Teamcity is using custom script or Makefile?
<lgierth>
eeh no idea
<lgierth>
doesn't show the command run?
<Kubuxu>
No, and I suspect that my fix for tests wasn't applied
<Kubuxu>
That test that failed in your PR is the same failure I've fixed recently at its core in Makefile
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<Kubuxu>
I've just run 10000 iterations of that test without a failure here.
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<infinity0>
are there any security analysis documents for the various subsystems of ipfs?
<infinity0>
for example, which layers are supposed to provide which security properties to its higher layers, and what security properties they depend on lower layers to provide?
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] lgierth force-pushed extract-gateway from 8c192a2 to 37db38e: https://git.io/vozP1
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/extract-gateway 37db38e Lars Gierth: gateway: remove dead BlockList...
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<lukeb>
Hello all, anyone around? :0
<voxelot>
whyrusleeping: i'm poor bitch :(
<voxelot>
although now i have interesting reading about DAO hack.. sip
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<noffle>
lukeb: o/
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<lukeb2>
Okay so I wanna build a distributed conference call app. Im down to WebRTC vs IPFS. Halp?
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<voxelot>
shadoxx: few ways, hard fork and break a lot of trust
<voxelot>
soft fork and figure out how to get it back later and save some
<voxelot>
or hack it back on the current chain
<yangwao>
I think soft fork is kinda showing weakness of Ethereum
<yangwao>
nobody cared when you lost at mtgox
<shadoxx>
I lost at mtgox. :[
<yangwao>
and you didnt claim back?
<yangwao>
friend of mine claimed and after two years they will be giving back something
<shadoxx>
Eh, it wasn't too much BTC. Like, ~2BTC. I lost the postcard they sent me ages ago
<alu>
i lost 1 btc at mtgoy
<shadoxx>
I just downloaded Ethereum though.
<shadoxx>
imma start writing contracts
<alu>
as you can see with theDAO, its all still an experiment.
<shadoxx>
More reason to getgood
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<alu>
it's gitgud
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<mikolalysenko>
they bet way too much on the dao
<mikolalysenko>
was premature to be throwing $160million at it
<mikolalysenko>
they could've run the same experiment at a fraction of the cost and gotten all the bugs worked out before putting it all on the line
<mikolalysenko>
maybe this'll trigger a new round of interest in formal verification of contract programs
<mikolalysenko>
worst thing here are the potential chilling effects, there was a lot of good work going on around ethereum and it would be a shame to lose all that momentum and effort
<r0kk3rz>
mikolalysenko: it was the 'crowd' who put that much money in, nobody forced them to do it
<whyrusleeping>
gitgud
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<whyrusleeping>
alu: sunbro?
<shadoxx>
\ O /
<shadoxx>
_ | _
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<shadoxx>
| |
<whyrusleeping>
praise the sun!
<yangwao>
r0kk3rz: I think it was just hype, Ill bet 90% of people didnt know even how Dao works
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<shadoxx>
DAO is a type of gun, right?
<yangwao>
is it?
<echo_oddly_>
Double Action Only
<shadoxx>
lol
<shadoxx>
let's start a rumor that DAO is a type of firearm. get Trump to rally behind the DAO
<shadoxx>
"let's ban the DAO"
<shadoxx>
"THESE COLORS DON'T RUN!"
<yangwao>
well played
<echo_oddly_>
Let's dispell the myth. DAO know exactly what they are doing.
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<A124>
shadoxx eth was hacked people say.
<A124>
... Anyways looking forward to Go 1.7. Might bring nice benefits in a month.
<yangwao>
A124: what kind of benefits?
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<A124>
I have not read comprehensibly, but of course better stuff in general, including smaller binaries, some stuff is faster, etc.
<A124>
The default compiler got some work, so looking forward to that, and how it will affect ipfs. Would like to solve the ... context switching stuff, but lack knowledge around it.
<whyrusleeping>
lots of great things in go1.7
<whyrusleeping>
lots of perf improvements
<whyrusleeping>
faster compile times
<whyrusleeping>
and the context library (which we use everywhere) got adopted into the stdlib
<whyrusleeping>
also, math.Big stuff got faster
<whyrusleeping>
which is nice
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] whyrusleeping created fix/dht-timeouts (+1 new commit): https://git.io/vogK9
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] whyrusleeping opened pull request #2863: implement some simple dht request read timeouts (master...fix/dht-timeouts) https://git.io/vog6T
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] Kubuxu pushed 1 new commit to feature/update-authors: https://git.io/vog6N
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feature/update-authors 61f54f6 Jakub Sztandera: Remove two clones of mine, two Juan's and one Larg's...
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] Kubuxu force-pushed feature/update-authors from 61f54f6 to 7ce7aba: https://git.io/vogiq
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feature/update-authors dc15c22 Richard Littauer: Updated authors doc...
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feature/update-authors 7ce7aba Jakub Sztandera: Remove two clones of mine, two Juan's and one Larg's...
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] whyrusleeping deleted revert-multi-gopath at ad461c6: https://git.io/vogiE
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<haad_>
r0kk3rz: in case you didn't get an answer re. pubsub timeline yet, we're working on it but right now can't tell you any concrete timelines. need to shuffle priorities, but hopefully will know more after July.
<haad_>
!tell lukeb hit me up re. video conf on IPFS, been thinking about it a while and have some pointers. (short story, might not yet be possible to do efficiently but proof-of-concept should definitely be possible)
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<r0kk3rz>
haad_: cool thanks :)
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<ipfsbot>
[webui] greenkeeperio-bot opened pull request #402: Update eslint-plugin-react to version 5.2.2
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<lgierth>
haad_: we don't have a tell-bot here :)
<lgierth>
hey whyrusleeping, i started an ipfs-core-api within go-ipfs
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<lgierth>
and ipfs-core-api-interface or so which will be its own package (interfaces + structs) for other stuff like the gateway to depend upon
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<lgierth>
basically most of the business logic in core/commands can go into ipfs-core-api (which currently lives in core/coreapi)
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] whyrusleeping pushed 1 new commit to fix/dht-timeouts: https://git.io/vo2I1
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/fix/dht-timeouts 62c986d Jeromy: demote errors to warnings...
<whyrusleeping>
lgierth: that sounds good to me
<whyrusleeping>
i'm excited to have thinks more pieced out
<lgierth>
it's also the only way to sanely extract gateway
<lgierth>
and *then* we can also change go-ipfs-api to implement that interface
<lgierth>
will also make it easier for tools like ipget to embed an ephemeral node, i guess
<lgierth>
the joys of refactoring :')
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<chriscool1>
Hi guys!
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<lgierth>
hey chriscool! you not on strike?
<lgierth>
:)
<chriscool1>
No, not yet :-)
<lgierth>
well you got my solidarity!
<lgierth>
political strikes are unfortunately prohibited in .de :(
<chriscool1>
For now I just organized a revolution in Sharness land :-)
<chriscool1>
Actually I became Sharness maintainer because Mathias Lafeldt gave me maintainership
<lgierth>
hehehe
<lgierth>
cool!
<chriscool1>
but you can see it as a revolution if you want :-)