<ianopolous>
lgierth: thanks. ipfs repo gc runs concurrently on my machine with the daemon, but gives no output. Although I guess it's kind of a moot point until we have transactions
<lgierth>
no output -- hrm
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<lgierth>
but it's removing stuff? check ipfs refs local
<ianopolous>
although if I kill the daemon, then run gc again, it collects something
<ianopolous>
so maybe it was locked out by the daemon
<lgierth>
it's supposed to go through the api if the daemon is running
<lgierth>
offline means there's no daemon and the cli will carry out the command on its own
<ianopolous>
so in general you can't mix offline and online?
<lgierth>
oh you can
<lgierth>
it's just that if the daemon is running, there is no offline
<ianopolous>
by offline, I mean running ipfs repo gc in another terminal
<lgierth>
(also you can't mix two processes accessing the repo)
<lgierth>
it's gonna use the daemon
<lgierth>
if it's running
<lgierth>
some commands can work offline, like ipfs add
<whyrusleeping>
Kubuxu: what version of go do you use?
<ianopolous>
right, but it returned nothing whilst it was running, and an object once it was killed (with nothing in between)
<whyrusleeping>
ianopolous: you can definitely run a gc with the daemon running
<whyrusleeping>
you can even run a gc during an `ipfs add`
<ianopolous>
ok cool
<lgierth>
noooo i triggered an npm install
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<ianopolous>
anyone have any issues with long running IPFS instances on EC2 crashing?
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<ianopolous>
I have had one running on a small EC2 instance backing https://demo.peergos.net and for a few months now the daemon crashes with a large goroutine dump. This has continued through several version updates.
<lgierth>
the goroutine dump would be useful
<ianopolous>
yeah I mistakenly did a git log to get the current commit I was on and lost it this time
<ianopolous>
(I was just running it in screen)
<ianopolous>
but next time it happens I'll post it
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<eaterjolly1>
I was gonna venture to try and compile ipfs on rasbian and for some reason I can't set the go-path
<eaterjolly1>
@lgierth: I use rasbian as my primary os lol
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<shadoxx>
eaterjolly1: ohgodwhy
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<lgierth>
eaterjolly1: ah ok haha :)
<lgierth>
i'm about to go to bed but if you have concrete issues someone here might know
<lgierth>
was just joking about raspbian because i had plenty of trouble with it in the past and seems it just keeps giving
<lgierth>
good night
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<eaterjolly1>
lgierth night
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<Legionof7>
Hello
<eaterjolly1>
I like to tempt that senpai called fate
<Legionof7>
Would it be possible to host a forum with IPFS?
<eaterjolly1>
I think theirs been talk of that, but most people are fine with just raising issues or making pull requests instead of having threads.
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<Legionof7>
oh
<Legionof7>
Because I'm trying to make a decentralized social network
<Legionof7>
like Diaspora*
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<Legionof7>
Would I be able to host something like Discourd with IPFS?
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<deltab>
Legionof7: yes, except for notifying others about newly-added data
<deltab>
that something IPFS will have, but the developers haven't gotten to it yet
<Legionof7>
So users will need to manually update?
<deltab>
more than that
<deltab>
when you access data through ipfs, you do so by giving a hash of that data
<deltab>
changing the data would cause it to have a different hash
<Legionof7>
oh
<Legionof7>
thats not good
<deltab>
so how do the users find out what the new hash is?
<deltab>
you need some additional mechanism on top
<Legionof7>
ok
<deltab>
and, at the moment, that means something outside ipfs as it is now
<Legionof7>
but that needs to be on normal wev
<Legionof7>
*web
<Legionof7>
because you'd need to update that right?
<deltab>
or irc, email, your own custom protocol, etc.
<Legionof7>
yeah
<deltab>
anything that can broadcast hashes
<Legionof7>
so how would I upload the Discourd files onto IPFS?
<deltab>
you'd add them to your own ipfs repository
<deltab>
that'd give you a hash, which you can give to others
<Legionof7>
Ok
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<deltab>
when they request it, their nodes will access yours, and transfer the data they request
<deltab>
then they will be able to share it in turn with others, and so on
<kpcyrd>
hey
<Legionof7>
ya
<deltab>
and the hashes make sure they can't change the data in transit
<kpcyrd>
can somebody give me some pointers how to add stdin to ipfs? I think I used `ipfs add -q` in the past but I could get that working in 0.4.2
<kpcyrd>
*couldn't
<ipfsrocks>
you can pipe
<ipfsrocks>
like echo "hello" | ipfs add
<kpcyrd>
oh. seems to test for tty. sorry.
<Legionof7>
But the problem with that is that for a forum
<Legionof7>
that would be very slow
<Legionof7>
because everytime someone posts
<Legionof7>
new hash
<kpcyrd>
Legionof7: you could create an authority to which you submit posts, it updates the data with ipns and references the tree of the current forum
<Legionof7>
What do you mean?
<kpcyrd>
Legionof7: you can build a forum if there's a server which receives posts and adds them to it's ipfs, then recalculate the hash of the whole forum and update the ipns pointer
<Legionof7>
I see. So you'd still need a point of centralization
<kpcyrd>
yes
<Legionof7>
How did Diaspora do it?
<kpcyrd>
you could basically write an adapter which converts a diaspora pod into an ipfs data structure and publish that with ipns in dns
<Legionof7>
But I mean what did Diaspora do?
<Legionof7>
To not require centralization
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<kpcyrd>
Legionof7: everybody who wants to run their own diaspora server can add one and most people use some public server and that's sort of not centralized
<Legionof7>
Oh I see
<Legionof7>
so Diaspora is just a bunch of servers
<kpcyrd>
yes
<kpcyrd>
you need a server and a domain and do some things that are trivial for the average sys admin and then you have a diaspora pod
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<eaterjolly1>
Isn't IPNS supposed to function as a mutable namespace, wouldn't be new has just be included in that namespace?
<deltab>
yes, but aiui it's incomplete at the moment
<eaterjolly1>
The grammar of that sentence I spewed was horrendous
<deltab>
iiuc, you can add new hashes, but there's no way to know which is newest until the old one expires after 24 hours
<eaterjolly1>
Has any one managed to run an ipfs node as an ethereum contract, such a thing sound feasible?
<eaterjolly1>
If the ethereum contract could write to ipfs, them couldn't someone use it to manage the versioning?
<eaterjolly1>
Lot's of people know php who don't know any other language, so it might help 'em understand how ipfs works
<eaterjolly1>
dansup
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<dansup>
yeah, i hope to implement all of the cli commands, a few interfaces so one can use the http gateway (default), ipfs-go or whatever ipfs client and a laravel package
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<richardlitt>
Good morning o/
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<Kubuxu>
\o
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<circa2050>
hi
<circa2050>
if i add a new file and then run `ipfs name publish <the new hash>`
<circa2050>
what does it actually do?
<circa2050>
from the example under https://ipfs.io/docs/examples/ it seems like it will associate that file to my peer id
<circa2050>
is that correct?
<Kubuxu>
This changes reference of your peerID to that hash.
<Kubuxu>
Yes
<circa2050>
right so my understanding is in early stages..
<circa2050>
isn't my peer id also a hash?
<circa2050>
what's the point of associating my peer id with a file?
<circa2050>
and it's only ever going to be one file
<ion>
Your peer ID is a hash of your public key. You gain mutation with IPNS, your IPNS entry can point to different things at different times.
<Kubuxu>
Then you can resolve the file using: `/ipns/<peerid>
<Kubuxu>
Then you can resolve the file using: `/ipns/<peerid>`
<circa2050>
right.. but it will still only ever be just one file that will be associated with my peer id..
<circa2050>
ah it could be a whole directory, right
<Kubuxu>
yup
<circa2050>
im trying to think of a use case for this
<ion>
A personal website you want to update
<ion>
A download for the latest version of a piece of software
<ion>
Today's temperature in your city
<ion>
A video stream
<ion>
(live)
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<circa2050>
right, i understand it now, thanks
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] RichardLitt created feature/decapitalize-Debug (+1 new commit): https://git.io/vol45
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feature/decapitalize-Debug 35fba28 Richard Littauer: Decapitalized log.Debug messages...
<Kubuxu>
achin: I responded, my best explanation is that slang's node can't penetrate NAT
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<achin>
Kubuxu: thank you! but if slang's node can only make connections to SoL, and my code can connect to SoL, i still would have expected that `dht findprovs` to have returned something
<achin>
i might not have been able to connect directly to their node to download the data, but wouldn't the dht network have relayed the provider info?
<Kubuxu>
achin: what is your id?
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* achin
is QmVyqFjQJTqVmKRBk4sL9F9Af7fCRdA9YNK845NSHRD8zJ
<Kubuxu>
hmm, I can't connect to you :p
<achin>
hmm. hmmm!
<Kubuxu>
but it is probably not related.
<achin>
i'll fix that
<achin>
but does my dht question make sense? or am i just wrong about how the ipfs dht works?
<Kubuxu>
Yeah, I am looking at it now.
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<Kubuxu>
What I am thinking is that IFPS might be showing only possible providers with addresses.
<achin>
you mean "only reachable provider" ?
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<lgierth>
Kubuxu: check ipfs swarm addrs with that id
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<lgierth>
achin: check ipfs swarm addrs for your id too
<Kubuxu>
lgierth: no info about achin but I was able to start dialing him (ipfs dht findpeer worked and returned address).
<Kubuxu>
achin: with address published to the network
<achin>
(i just patched up my firewall to allow ipfs)
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<lgierth>
stopped dropping /tcp/4001 or forward a port?
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<achin>
what that address to me? yes, i'm now forwarding tcp/4001 to where it needs to go
<Kubuxu>
achin: yup, IPFS searches for PeerID for given object and then tires to resolve addresses for that Peerid
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<achin>
ah ha. ok, i think that explains it. do we think that is the right behavior?
<Kubuxu>
I think yes
<lgierth>
meh
<lgierth>
we need better NAT traversal debugging
<lgierth>
no idea what go-nat is doing
<achin>
it seems like it might conflate "i can't find anyone who has this hash" and "i can't connect to anyone who has this hash" ?
<lgierth>
forwarding a port manually is the "fuck this shit" of NAT traversal
<achin>
at least for debugging purposes it would be useful to know that someone provides a hash, but i just can't connect to them
<Kubuxu>
lgierth: apparently go-nat is crashing on Windows if device is offline, I was supposed to fix that, but I don't have windows anymore.
<Kubuxu>
also go-nat is missing PCP (Port Control Protocol) which is essential if we want to support those stupid default deny policies on IPv6 network gateways
<Kubuxu>
I don't really see reason for default deny if you expose PCP...
<lgierth>
Kubuxu: looking forward to team week, we should kickstart packet switching there
<lgierth>
then we can just trash this whole class of problems
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<achin>
does "packet switching" mean nodes can relay data?
<lgierth>
yes
<lgierth>
there's line switching and packet switching
<lgierth>
the former does the relaying on the connection level, the other on the packet level
<lgierth>
there's a very simple line switching protocol already in go-ipfs
<lgierth>
where you can have node X open a connection to node Y on your behalf, and forward it to you
<achin>
neat, didn't know ipfs did that
<lgierth>
with packet switching, we'd do proper routing, i.e. not just A->relay->B, but A->X->Y->M->N->B
<lgierth>
it's disabled by default
<lgierth>
who knows if it even works :D
<achin>
:P
<lgierth>
Kubuxu: what are your berlin dates?
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<Kubuxu>
Whole July apart form 3rd week.
<Kubuxu>
I can give tell you more precise dates latter.
<Kubuxu>
lgierth: are we planning fc00 or something completely different?
<Kubuxu>
Because if fc00 then I have cool idea how to overcome horizon.
<lgierth>
yeah that too!
<lgierth>
fc00 + integration with libp2p
<Kubuxu>
It would be good to spec out multikey before.
<Kubuxu>
that
<lgierth>
yeah and figure out how to make a multistream-like scheme work nicely with cryptoauth
<lgierth>
we can't attach the string "/cryptoauth/1.0" to every packet
<Kubuxu>
IMO multistream should allow for negotiation of local labels.
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<Kubuxu>
So after connection and when I want to use some protocol it would be: "Hey, now on "/cryptoauth/0.1" will be referenced as this two byte header"
<Kubuxu>
but I don't know how multistream is written currently.
<lgierth>
yep i was thinking something along those lines :)
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<lgierth>
cool
<lgierth>
multistream works by negotiating that upfront at the beginning of the stream
<lgierth>
and on both ends you kinda keep that state with the connection
<lgierth>
or rather: the connection *is* this state
<lgierth>
there's 3 or 4 layers of multistream between the wire and bitswap
<Kubuxu>
I spent two days on 2 lines fix...
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] Kubuxu created feature/test-repeated-ip (+1 new commit): https://git.io/volFq
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feature/test-repeated-ip 32cdbbd Jakub Sztandera: Fix DHT tests failing because of repeated addresses...
<lgierth>
hehe
<lgierth>
sounds good
<lgierth>
i've spent much longer on 0 lines fix
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] Kubuxu opened pull request #2855: Fix DHT tests failing because of repeated addresses (master...feature/test-repeated-ip) https://git.io/volFg
<Kubuxu>
Whole fix is to do: IPFS_REUSEPORT=false while running go test :p
<lgierth>
that's fucked up
<lgierth>
this weird friendship between SO_REUSEADDR and :0
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<lgierth>
got any source for that, or just noticed the behaviour?
<lgierth>
eeh REUSEPORT
<Kubuxu>
I've read BSD and Linux docs about it.
<Kubuxu>
This looks like a bit "undefined" but correct behavior.
<lgierth>
hrm
<lgierth>
yeah
<lgierth>
SO_REUSEPORT even sounds a bit like, it's okay to pick a port that's in use
<Kubuxu>
I can't see a use for that.
<Kubuxu>
but yeah, you should expect someone cousing your address.
<Kubuxu>
You are just saying to kernel, I will worry about that.
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<Kubuxu>
We could fix it by first opening socket w/o REUSEPORT and then create new socket with it
<Kubuxu>
but we would open second socket with port given by the first
<Kubuxu>
but then you have race, as someone might do the same at the same port
<Kubuxu>
Do we have any Linux or BSD kernel hackers out her? This is edge scenario that could be polished off.
<Kubuxu>
Like I can't see someone depending on that behavior.
<Kubuxu>
!pin QmaaexvREtA2Vf2ya72wodW8bkcRSFBQnCu3vtro27FJsk test green.jpg
<pinbot>
now pinning /ipfs/QmaaexvREtA2Vf2ya72wodW8bkcRSFBQnCu3vtro27FJsk
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<whyrusleeping>
man, i just love waking up to my vps being rebooted unexpectedly
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<dignifiedquire>
whyrusleeping: that's why you run your own hardware :P
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<whyrusleeping>
dignifiedquire: yeah, i guess so
<whyrusleeping>
or just pony up and pay digitalocean
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<whyrusleeping>
mars uptime: 12:12:30 up 650 days, 20:52, 1 user, load average: 0.09, 0.18, 0.22
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<dignifiedquire>
nice
<dignifiedquire>
well you get what you pay for
<shadoxx>
650 days. Impressive.
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<shadoxx>
whyrusleeping: digital ocean has rebooted my server once, after two years.
<ola>
in the spec for IPLD, in the example section, the examples seem to be referencing the object with name "second foo" but references appear to be to values in the previous object. Am I missing something, or is this a big fat typo?
<vijayee_>
thanks noffle, you have inspired the laziness inside me
<ola>
vijayee_: Earlier I read the ipld spec. There is an are examples there for git blobs, trees, and commits.
<vijayee_>
I've seen that too ola that's why I figures someone had already done it
<Kubuxu>
vijayee_: this tool is just very naive, simple version. It just stores the `.git` directory in IPFS.
<Kubuxu>
with IPLD it would be possible to make git inside IPFS, but it wouldn't be hash compatible with normal git
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<vijayee_>
I have been kicking the tires on IPLD, Kubuxu, over the last few day making ledgers. I like this date format! Is the difference in hashing the way its chunked or the hash algorithim?
<Kubuxu>
The difference would be in how is data stored in binary format, also IPLD opens possibilities git couldn't use.
<Kubuxu>
Like for example: you can reference and store author name, address, info as separate IPLD object.
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<dignifiedquire>
vijayee_: if you have feedback on ipld please let me know :)
<dignifiedquire>
also currently exploring graphql+ipld
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<vijayee_>
sure thing dignifiedquire, is the spec finalized yet? I couldn't tell from the readme
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<dignifiedquire>
vijayee_: pretty much unless we discover a major flaw
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<vijayee_>
dignifiedquire: cool, then I'll recklessly ipld all the things
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<dignifiedquire>
vijayee_: also enjoy the js implementation which is fully spec complinat :)
<vijayee_>
dignifiedquire: that's the one I'm using
<dignifiedquire>
ipfs/js-ipld anf ipfs/js-ipld-cli and ipfs/js-ipld-ipfs
<dignifiedquire>
cool
<vijayee_>
so wait
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<vijayee_>
can I stick the object in through the ipfs module
<vijayee_>
using object
<vijayee_>
or something similar
<vijayee_>
I think I saw the test cases use the blockstore directly
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<dignifiedquire>
the main js-ipfs does not expose this abillity but you can store and retrieve ipld objects with this https://github.com/ipfs/js-ipfs-ipld
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<dignifiedquire>
which uses the same storage modules as js-ipfs and will be integrated at some point
<vijayee_>
okay, that's what I thought; thanks dignifiedquire
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<sugarpuff>
hey is anyone working on an IPFS comment system for static blogs?
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<Kubuxu>
sugarpuff: if you can solve the problem of aggregation, then it should be easy.
<sugarpuff>
Kubuxu: i was just curious whether existing efforts are under way?
<sugarpuff>
Kubuxu: ok, thanks! i'll probably re-ask in two months :P
<Kubuxu>
There is Orbit under way, which will be live messaging app on IPFS.
<Kubuxu>
There are various ideas how to make forums and comments on IFPS
<Kubuxu>
simplest would be just to use Ethereum but it would be hard with adoption.
<Kubuxu>
Especially until Ethereum releases Light Client.
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<sugarpuff>
Kubuxu: yeah that was my thought too, but from DWebSummit Gav Wood indicated Parity would help there
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<sugarpuff>
still, most people would not like the idea of paying to comment
<sugarpuff>
so i'm not sure whether even with a thin client it would make sense
<Kubuxu>
unfortunately chain in Parity is still 5GB
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<sugarpuff>
Kubuxu: so even if it wasn't, it would still cost ETH to comment. Nobody would want to pay that so some centralized service would be built on top of it, defeating the entire purpose of using it in the first place
<Kubuxu>
Problem is, some gating is required, otherwise you end up with uncontrolled spamfest.
<sugarpuff>
Kubuxu: ultimately somebody has to pay for storage. i guess it would have to be the blog host
<sugarpuff>
i.e. whoever owns the blog
<Kubuxu>
then it isn't decentralized
<sugarpuff>
it is as decentralized as a custom WP blog
<sugarpuff>
err
<sugarpuff>
no more
<sugarpuff>
Kubuxu: it would be more decentralized than self-hosted WP, because owner pays, but data exists across multiple machines
<Kubuxu>
then you can just setup SPA with HTTP backed comment section
<sugarpuff>
it would probably be *cheaper* to pay centralized service to host comments though (than to pay the blockchain)
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<sugarpuff>
i think for comments the best that can be done in terms of decentralization is something similar to self-hosting :-\
<sugarpuff>
happy to be proven wrong though!
<Kubuxu>
storage isn't the problem, people reading comments can do it, and worst case scenario you are back to square one where the blog owner hosts them
<sugarpuff>
yeah people reading comments won't want to store it
<sugarpuff>
unless you pay them
<Kubuxu>
they will, for short periods of time, this is how IPFS works.
<sugarpuff>
IPFS is not reliable for unpopular content
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<Kubuxu>
then as I said, owner stores it
<sugarpuff>
right, which is what i said :P
<Kubuxu>
(owner of a blog is just a party that cares about the comments).
<Kubuxu>
problem is with aggregation, how do you get comments from users in the network, in decentralized matter and aggregate them in one place
<Kubuxu>
point of that is to allow comments to live over the live time of the webpage under original owner
<sugarpuff>
so that's a higher level problem. a lower level problem (as mentioned earlier) is how do you get them to store the comments in the first place, and that would require paying them somehow
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<dansup>
I was wondering how a forum would work with IPFS
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<sugarpuff>
dansup: all the same things above would apply to a forum
<Kubuxu>
It is all about interested parities, If I am interested about having comments on my blog I will store them, if you like my blog, you might start storing it and its comments
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<Kubuxu>
this way if I no longer care about my blog, but you find it very useful and nice, you can keep the lights on there
<dansup>
interestingly, cy and I started working on a merkledag forum before I discovered ipfs
<sugarpuff>
Kubuxu: right, but "i will store them" is not really how it works
<sugarpuff>
Kubuxu: it's more like, "i will pay someone to store them"
<Kubuxu>
why?
<sugarpuff>
because i can't have my computer online all the time
<Kubuxu>
There are companies now giving GiB of storage for free, you think there won't be something like that with IPFS?
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<sugarpuff>
Kubuxu: maybe there will be... but there's usually a catch of some sort
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<Kubuxu>
there is always a catch, worst case scenario, if you like some content you will pay for it
<sugarpuff>
Kubuxu: i do like the idea of using Dropbox (& similar), and somehow pointing IPFS to it
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<Kubuxu>
I don't think it will be possible
<sugarpuff>
why not?
<Kubuxu>
I personally spend money on running dedicated and vps where most resources used are for other people.
<Kubuxu>
Because you need some gateway, someone has to hash that content either way, and someone has to push it to network when it is requested.
<Kubuxu>
Storage is soo cheap that it will be cheaper to by hdds than develop solution like that.
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<sugarpuff>
Kubuxu: doesn't IPFS have custom routers? just make a Dropbox router
<Kubuxu>
it doesn't work like that
* sugarpuff
waves wand, says "magic" :P
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<Kubuxu>
also you don't have to ping me all the time, when we are only two talking
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<sugarpuff>
ah ok, sorry, force of habit
<sugarpuff>
i've got this in a tab and i sometimes go away; only notice when someone @mentions me
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<Kubuxu>
Also Dropbox blocks files if they are too popular
<sugarpuff>
ok that is a good reason
<sugarpuff>
maybe some sort of "cloud router" that covers Dropbox & a bunch of other free services?
<sugarpuff>
stores comments in all of them, returns first successful result?
<Kubuxu>
4TB hdd is $100, you know how may comments could fit on that.
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<sugarpuff>
it's bandwidth and uptime that's the issue, not storage
<sugarpuff>
so say you create a CloudRouter, right? where to put hash => data index?
<sugarpuff>
and how do clients query it in a decentralized way?
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<Kubuxu>
Sorry, I just don't see that happening, you just said that nothing is really free.
<Kubuxu>
Storing data at Google, Dropbox, Onedrive never was free.
<sugarpuff>
well you pointed out that some companies give "free-ish" storage. if you store same data in *all* of them then maybe it could work
<Kubuxu>
You are the product of those companies.
<sugarpuff>
(is it kosher to cc jbenet / daviddias on this btw? curious to hear their thoughts?)
<sugarpuff>
store comments across all of these different "free-ish" services, then (1) CloudRouter keeps track of hash=>data index (2) it (or the client?) round-robbin queries all of them until it gets successful result
<sugarpuff>
just don't know how that would be done in a decentralized way... seems like CloudRouter would have costly upkeep itself
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<sugarpuff>
anyway, thanks for the back & forth brainstorming on this Kubuxu! for now i'll resort to traditional self-hosted means for comments
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