<lekernel>
wpwrak: I would indeed say that 98% of the makerfaire is arduino led blinkers and similar crap. but at the US event they still had some good stuff like someone messing with a stirling cryocooler to make liquid nitrogen and Jeri's DIY transistors. and unfortunately, those remaining 2% are hard to find otherwise
<lekernel>
maybe I should organize a festival with only those :)
<lekernel>
funny, xilinx has released ise 13.1 with support for their vaporware 7-series devices you can't buy
<roh>
lekernel: i think you are wrong there.
<roh>
you can never get those 2% without the 98% stuff which is 'NIH'
<roh>
or 'boring' for our level of understanding technology. others need and do that to learn.
<roh>
humans do not have a rectangular learning curve
<lekernel>
NIH
<lekernel>
?
<roh>
Not Invented Here
<lekernel>
well, ok, maybe not only those 2%
<lekernel>
but at least raise the bar a bit
<Fallenou>
lekernel: I don't know if I will go
<Fallenou>
it looks great
<Fallenou>
but it's far away from london
<Fallenou>
it might be expensive
<Fallenou>
I will have a look on the train ticket price
<roh>
Fallenou: its ok for any arduino hacking and similar microcontroller stuff.
<lekernel>
Fallenou: i'd check with your local hamradio club, they sometimes have very good stuff
<lekernel>
often old school analogue though :)
<roh>
eeeek.
<lekernel>
well, I happen to like analogue scopes.
<roh>
dont buy used analog non-dso stuff.. usually not worth any money
<Fallenou>
roh: yes for arduilol 16 MHz is enough :)
<lekernel>
oh, come on
<Fallenou>
but I don't want to just be able to scope arduilol
<roh>
Fallenou: nope. remember.. nyquist?
<Fallenou>
oh oh ok
<Fallenou>
then 32 ?
<lekernel>
you can do lots of stuff with a decent analogue scope
<lekernel>
much more than with a crappy dso
<Fallenou>
oh sure lekernel
<roh>
Fallenou: actually they should already sample atleast twice per hz.. but reality.....
<roh>
and marketing...
<Fallenou>
yes that's what i wondered
<Fallenou>
if the scope says 50 MHz
<Fallenou>
it should mean i can show 50 MHz signals
<roh>
lekernel: even a decent analog scope is worthless if you dont have repetitive signals. wich i have all the time.
<roh>
means i cannot do the stuff at all with a non-storage device.
<roh>
Fallenou: should.
<Fallenou>
yes :x
<roh>
in that case (rigol) i tend to believe them.
<Fallenou>
the first I linked does 1 Gig samples/sec on 1 input
<roh>
on tek and hameg, lecroy you can also believe them. on the china and noname stuff.. be careful ;)
<Fallenou>
and 500 Meg samples /sec for 2 inputs
<Fallenou>
so I guess it's really ok for it's 50 MHz
<roh>
its a combination of 'sampling frequency' and 'analog stages'
<Fallenou>
arg
<Fallenou>
ok
<roh>
the latter getting more complex with rising range
<Fallenou>
and since I want something cheap I will definitely end up with some chinese stuff :)
<Fallenou>
i gotta be careful
<roh>
e.g. i know that my welec has a not really great analog stage.. but hey.. i never needed to measure the 200mhz it can in theore (does 1gsamples)
<roh>
also its analog absolut measured voltages arent really precise. also the adc are usually 8bit on non-highend devices. still thats all ok as long as a device helps you solve your questions fast.
<roh>
if i want absolute levels.. i dont use the scope.
<roh>
i want to know e.g. what baudrate has a serial.. or find it at all first on a unlabeled connector
<Fallenou>
that's more to verify what is going on on digital lines and do some triggering
<roh>
exactly.
<Fallenou>
I am not really fine with logic analyzers
<Fallenou>
usually you need to connect it to a PC
<Fallenou>
it samples in real time through USB at a low rate
<roh>
and usually i just capture some random bytes from the stream to look at the small and wide timing spaces to guess the baudrate. then connect the serial adapers/levelconverters/inverters and go from there.
<Fallenou>
I prefer a real scope
<roh>
i have a logic analyzer here.. but i dont use it much. it needs the windows notebook stored in the same box with it to work
<wpwrak>
Fallenou: i have a DS1102CD, the previous generation. they're quite good for their price. the deep memory allows you to do things like debug USB.
<wpwrak>
lekernel: that uses the logic analyzer in the ds1102cd. the LA has issues with spurious transitions and crosstalk, but if you massage the data long enough, you can get useful results with it
<Fallenou>
what did you use SDIO for ?
<wpwrak>
lekernel: and it's a fraction of the price of an MSO from a more reputable vendor ;-)
<wpwrak>
Fallenou: we had a WLAN module connected via SDIO inside the Openmoko Freerunner phone
<Fallenou>
oh wlan :)
<Fallenou>
is SDIO widespread in embedded systems ?
<wpwrak>
Fallenou: SPI and I2C are more common. but you run into SDIO from time to time, too
<lekernel>
given the long time it took them between s3 and s6 and the mess s6 was, I expect the worst for the 7 which has been announced even during s6 wasn't really available
<mwalle>
terpstra: that juart protocol is rather slow.. esp if your jtag pod isnt fast, i archieved 900bytes/s iirc, you could use the dp version though
<mwalle>
'lm32 debug_protocol enable' iirc
<Fallenou>
900 bytes/s, reminds me of the wifi at my office :)
<mwalle>
lol :)
<Fallenou>
is tempted by the rigol ds1052E
<Fallenou>
if I can upgrade it to 100 MHz
<Fallenou>
it's awesome
<mwalle>
although we have that high speed scope now.. there was no more money for more than one differential probe ...
<Fallenou>
today I had to hold 3 probes with my hand
<Fallenou>
how do you hold 3 differential probes ? :p
<Fallenou>
is thinking about upgrading his body with new arms and hands
<mwalle>
use pliers with some rubber around the handles
<mwalle>
but be sure it wont squeeze to much :)
<mwalle>
agilent sells some kind if this for 50 EUR ...