<methril_work>
we where lucky, we paid 60% in import taxes (of declared value, but sometimes they look for the product and they apply the taxes for the searched price)
<methril_work>
and some mor R$ in other taxes + the fedex duty services
<wolfspraul>
methril_work: what was the total you paid on your side?
<wolfspraul>
it's not so easy with 'declared' or 'searched' price. A product can have many valuations, depending on who looks at it, who pays, lends, loans, gives away, etc. etc.
<wolfspraul>
so I am usually just trying to understand the total, and how we can bring it down :-)
<methril_work>
in brazil is hard to get it down
<methril_work>
the only way is producing something here
<wolfspraul>
do you know the toal in R$ you had to pay for this shipment, including everybody's fees/taxes ?
<methril_work>
was 254,56 R$ (around 145.5 $)
<Fallenou>
kristianpaul: have you looked at your synthesis.log ?
<wolfspraul>
ok great, that's not too bad
<methril_work>
but they apply the 60% taxes over the bill price
<Fallenou>
kristianpaul: I still think it's a valuable piece of information for everybody, you should just git add it in your github repo, could seem weird for anyone to commit compile log, but for me it's interesting to access current synthesis log without having to synthetize it myself :)
<lekernel>
methril_work: for any import, from any country? they add 60%?
<lekernel>
argh
<lekernel>
you see aeris: french customs aren't the worst in the world :)
<methril_work>
lekernel, for technology they do
<lekernel>
hmm... sounds weird. any reason for doing so?
<lekernel>
limite asian imports?
<methril_work>
they said that they promote local manufacturing
<Fallenou>
60% ? that's crazy
<Fallenou>
it's not *promoting* local production
<Fallenou>
it's KILLING importation
<methril_work>
i know
<methril_work>
and the import companies comply about the dollar/brazil real going up, not about the crazy taxes
<methril_work>
this is the reason why i`m not selling qi- products here :(
<Fallenou>
:/
<lekernel>
methril_work: so what kind of computers and such do you have in Brazil?
<lekernel>
expensive ones, or locally made ones?
<methril_work>
if you have a good salary expensive ones, otherwise locally ones (and not so confident)
<lekernel>
how do the Brazilian computers look like?
<methril_work>
some people goes to Paraguay to bough at the same price in US
<methril_work>
the same
<methril_work>
almos all asian computer manufacturer has some kind of production here
<methril_work>
and this goes the price a little bit down
<Fallenou>
isn't it in brazil that they sell computers with windows clone based on linux ?
<methril_work>
Fallenou, i don`t know
<methril_work>
i  never bought a computer here
<methril_work>
mine comes from Spain
<methril_work>
what i know about this is what my colleagues tell me, and what i see on the company
<Fallenou>
ok
<methril_work>
here they promote his Linux distro
<methril_work>
but i see a lot of cracked windows, more than Linux looking like Wins
<Fallenou>
humm ok
<Fallenou>
I saw that on TV
<Fallenou>
but it wasn't brazil maybe
<methril_work>
maybe they promote this, but the reality is other
<wolfspraul>
mercedes has a whole department whose function is to disassemble and reassemble cars to reduce customs payments
<wolfspraul>
hundreds of people
<wolfspraul>
for every country you do a little bit differently, depending on whatever regulations they wrote up
<wolfspraul>
in the end everybody just maximizes their dollars
<wolfspraul>
I won't get stuck on this, I just do the same :-)
<wolfspraul>
if we would all stop unnecessary and redundant work, maybe 80% of the world population would be jobless
<wolfspraul>
who knows
<methril_work>
:)
<aeris>
lekernel, lapin compris
<lekernel>
in Brazil, customs add 60%
<aeris>
Ah, OK
<wolfspraul>
lekernel: yes, but the real question is how it is actually enforced. It seems to be rather strict though.
<wolfspraul>
I give you an example :-)
<wolfspraul>
let's say a product is sold in some online shop in the US for 499 USD
<wolfspraul>
a distributor in Brazil buys 20 units of that product, he gets a volume discount
<wolfspraul>
how much? hard to say
<wolfspraul>
what if the volume discount is 80%?
<wolfspraul>
what if the distributor also pays for consulting services in conjunction with the product?
<wolfspraul>
for example - he pays 20*20%(100USD) + 8000 USD consulting services :-)
<wolfspraul>
will Brazil customs accept that?
<wolfspraul>
the way customs calculates the basis for customs fees is difficult, and it's a legal thing. so you cannot just take a number you see in an online shop as the basis.
<wolfspraul>
of course everybody is trying to avoid paying duties, so there are very clear rules for this, but those rules is what matters, not the nominal number '60%'
<wolfspraul>
countries like Brazil are the reason many large companies have disassembly/reassembly units, to make stuff pass in the most economical way
<wolfspraul>
of course we could do the same, if it is worth to find out the rules to that degree, given our volumes
<wolfspraul>
so we could disassemble m1, and ship the parts in separate shipments
<lekernel>
let's get that to the US first :)
<wolfspraul>
if we need more money from our Brazil distributor, there are many legal and used-all-the-time things like consulting fees, training services, marketing cooperation, etc.
<wolfspraul>
meanwhile the parts are shipped at very low component prices (even those with volume discounts, of course :-))
<wolfspraul>
it's a stupid game, but it was setup like this and it's 'legal', meaning that we have to follow, and pay
<wolfspraul>
I always feel these kinds of customs rules mainly benefit one party, that is government employees and bureaucracy.
<wolfspraul>
for them it's really a lot of new work, and genuine new income
<wolfspraul>
everybody else suffers, the end consumers the most of course
<wolfspraul>
the main markets for m1, in my opinion, are:
<wolfspraul>
1) Europe (EU)
<wolfspraul>
2) USA
<wolfspraul>
3) Japan
<wolfspraul>
4) Russia, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea (maybe)
<wolfspraul>
the rest is all one-off stuff imho, unless there is a really active person/distributor somewhere
<wolfspraul>
from those, only Russia causes lots of trouble on the customs side
<wolfspraul>
South Korea don't know
<wolfspraul>
the rest is super easy, and we are preparing for that
<wolfspraul>
US customs is the best, in my experience. Most import friendly in the world (no wonder given the strength of consumers there ;-))
<kristianpaul>
Fallenou: i will, sorry yday my laptop driver broke now i wokring with the chinesse defauklt os :/. I'll fix it to night i hope then move again witht the wishbone schpart and put the log in a public place