<daveshah>
Well, with C each instruction is 16 bits
<daveshah>
That said picorv32 isn't single cycle anyway so it should be fine
<cr1901_modern>
oh compressed insns aren't supported in migen yet (afaik(
<daveshah>
Ah
<daveshah>
That's quite important if running of spi flash
<azonenberg_work>
wbraun: you can use some 0.8mm parts on oshpark
<azonenberg_work>
but you do lose some pins
<azonenberg_work>
and it only works with smaller ball diameters, i think 0.4mm balls are OK but 0.5 are not
<whitequark>
you can also stretch the board house specs
<whitequark>
a bit
<azonenberg_work>
eh, my experience is that oshpark's annular ring is already really tight
<whitequark>
hmm ok
<azonenberg_work>
you get close to breakout frequently
Bob_Dole has joined ##openfpga
<azonenberg_work>
i wouldnt make that any smaller
<azonenberg_work>
in fact, to reduce the chance of yield issues i use bigger-than-minimum rings most of the time
<azonenberg_work>
then i use minimum only when i can't fit anything else
<wbraun>
the lattice docs talk about 0.35mm balls and 0.4mm balls. With 0.4mm balls I could not route between balls with min space/trace
<wbraun>
I could escape things to the bottom of the board though.
<wbraun>
Someone told me about jlcpcb though which has better space/trace and minimum via/anular ring than oshpark while maintaining the cheap chinese board house price structure. So its not that big a deal anymore.
knielsen has joined ##openfpga
<cr1901_modern>
azonenberg_work: >but 0.5 are not <-- is this solely due to clearance issues for routing when using appropriately-sized pads?
<cr1901_modern>
or also because of breakout?
<azonenberg_work>
cr1901_modern: iirc, with bigger balls you could not fit vias between the lands
<azonenberg_work>
so you could only fan out the outer ring of balls and maybe one ring inside
<azonenberg_work>
on the top layer
<gruetzkopf>
yeah i've semi-accidentally pushed jlcpcb to 3.5/4
<gruetzkopf>
VIP prices need to come down
<cr1901_modern>
azonenberg_work: *nods* I know you don't like it, but what about via-in-pad?
<wbraun>
jlcpcb claims that 3.5/3.5 is the standard spec for anything with 4 layers or more.
<wbraun>
and 0.45mm via diameter.
<wbraun>
Given that they also have very cheap 6L board prices I am eager to try them out.
<gruetzkopf>
i could do with less via dia
<gruetzkopf>
i believe them on 3.5
<wbraun>
I am working on using FPGAs for some power electronics control applications. I think my first rev is going to use a 1mm pitch xilinx FPGA to limit risk but my eventual goal is to use the ecp5 FPGAs with the open source toolchain.
<daveshah>
azonenberg_work: Something interesting is that ECP5 DFFs don't have a programmable init value, but init to their reset state (so 1 if set or 0 if reset)
<azonenberg_work>
yeah i've seen stuff like that
<azonenberg_work>
i've also seen dff's that only have a reset
<azonenberg_work>
and to initialize to 1, you put an inverter before and after :p
<daveshah>
I believe this is because GSR, which is always asserted at power up, is ordered with local set/reset
<daveshah>
Also curious is that set/reset ignores clock enable even when synchronous
<daveshah>
This required a change to Yosys to deal with
<azonenberg_work>
huh interesting
<daveshah>
Heh, the best way to learn an FPGA is definitely to document its bitstream
<azonenberg_work>
imo you havent truly learned a chip inside and out until you've found bugs in the datasheet
<azonenberg_work>
and/or implemented a cycle accurate verilog model of it :p
wbraun has quit [Quit: wbraun]
Miyu has joined ##openfpga
Miyu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
Mimoja has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
GuzTech has joined ##openfpga
Bike has joined ##openfpga
rohitksingh_work has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<azonenberg_work>
Because i totally need a manual alarm pull box :p
<daveshah>
nice
<SolraBizna>
have you ever thought to yourself "Golly, I wish I hadn't installed that manual alarm"?
<daveshah>
is it interfaced with anything (isolation or suppression?) or just a sounder?
<azonenberg_work>
daveshah: so, the existing setup was interconnected smoke detectors
<azonenberg_work>
Each unit has 120V mains in, plus a 9V battery bvackup
<azonenberg_work>
plus a low voltage DC interconnect line
<azonenberg_work>
there is modulated data on the line for CO alarms, or 9V DC to signal smoke
<azonenberg_work>
Kidde sells a UL listed relay module that filters for the smoke alert
<azonenberg_work>
and wont trip on CO or other alerts
<azonenberg_work>
the relay module also spits out 9V DC which is meant to be used for supplemental alarm triggers
<azonenberg_work>
so my pull box just closes a circuit from that to the interconnect line, thus triggering the built-in alarms in all of my existing smoke detectors
<daveshah>
Very neat
<daveshah>
Did your interconnecting smoke alarms come with a warning not to mix polarities between them like the ones I have at home?
<daveshah>
Seem they use a capacitive dropper for power
<azonenberg_work>
interesting - and no, i just hook hot/neutral/data up based on the color coding
<daveshah>
So if line and neutral are swapped on one, the low voltage DC becomes mains
<azonenberg_work>
lol
<daveshah>
Suspect yours are better than that though
<azonenberg_work>
well i do know that the interconnect signal is referenced to neutral
<azonenberg_work>
since there's no earth reference
<daveshah>
Does sound like the same then
<azonenberg_work>
Anyway in addition to that, the relay circuit itself is fed by 24V DC
<azonenberg_work>
(it may not be a cap dropper, just a non isolated psu)
<azonenberg_work>
So when the alarm triggers i get 24V DC out on another line
<azonenberg_work>
This will eventually trigger a horn/strobe unit in the lab, but UPS is being slow and it isnt here yet :p
<azonenberg_work>
Way down the road i do plan to add an Inergen gas fire suppression system but that's not going to happen soon (budget)
<daveshah>
All sounds like good fun
<azonenberg_work>
additionally, i plan to integrate the relay circuit with the UPS EPO so that a pull box activation or heat indication in the lab (and only the lab, using a diode for direction sensing) will kill power to most of the lab
<gruetzkopf>
so i grabbed a few broken smoke detectors of the system i use
<azonenberg_work>
the theory being that most plausible fires are electrical in nature
<azonenberg_work>
Thus the first thing to do if one breaks out is shut it all down
<gruetzkopf>
just need a controller now
<gruetzkopf>
then i can scope comms
<daveshah>
Yes, I guess in most cases shutting things down as soon as any considerable smoke appears might even stop a fire altogether
<daveshah>
If it's an overheating type failure
<gruetzkopf>
yeah, fire alarm in one of the tech rooms just kills power here
<gruetzkopf>
first the big DC contactors, then 3ph supply
<gruetzkopf>
(also sets the generator interlock)
<azonenberg_work>
daveshah: I do not have smoke detectors in the lab at the moment, i was concerned about nuisance triggers from soldering and such
<azonenberg_work>
so i have heat detectors only
<azonenberg_work>
i may swap the one near the server rack out for smoke and keep the one closer to the soldering area as heat
<gruetzkopf>
i have combined heat/smoke detectors everywhere
<gruetzkopf>
heat trigger is programmable
<azonenberg_work>
I have CO at the top and bottom of the stairs, the rest of the house is just smoke
<gruetzkopf>
some have integrated alarm sounders
<azonenberg_work>
(there's no fuel burning appliances at the moment so i dont see CO as being a major need)
<gruetzkopf>
generator room has CO here
<azonenberg_work>
the smoke are dual sensor ionization + photoelectric
<azonenberg_work>
then the lab has heat
<gruetzkopf>
no ionisation detectors here yet
<azonenberg_work>
Which will reduce nuisance alarms
<azonenberg_work>
they're not suitable for life safety applications but nobody is going to be sleeping in the lab
<azonenberg_work>
(garages i dont think even require detectors at all by code)
<daveshah>
I would guess that any inergen system would mainly be for property protection, so would warrant better detectors?
<azonenberg_work>
It would have a delay built in
<zkms>
there's stuff like uhhh
<zkms>
aspirating smoke detectors
<azonenberg_work>
smoke detected, ring alarm, wait 1 minute or for manual pull station, then deploy agent
<zkms>
and also open-air optical smoke detectors
<azonenberg_work>
zkms: yeah my concern was that soldering generates smoke
<azonenberg_work>
i deliberately did not want to be too sensitive there
<daveshah>
could also trigger immediately if two smoke detectors activate
<daveshah>
unlikely soldering would set that off
<azonenberg_work>
yeah, with a commercial alarm system you could do much more complex stuff
<azonenberg_work>
daveshah: it would also be for safety of occupants of the house if something happens in the lab
<azonenberg_work>
contain fire to the lab and suppress
<daveshah>
Systems like that are quite common with delayed evacuation systems in the UK
<azonenberg_work>
(alarm at one, suppress at two? yeah)
<azonenberg_work>
i would eventually like to have a water sprinkler system in the house proper
<azonenberg_work>
but that may not happen due to budget
<zkms>
water sprinklers might get you better insurance rates, idk
<gruetzkopf>
pull triggers are rare here
<daveshah>
I'm also thinking about the delayed evacuation systems common to minimise disruption in major infrastructure like the tube in the UK
<azonenberg_work>
zkms: it would but they're $$$$ to install
<gruetzkopf>
usually push-button behind glass
<azonenberg_work>
esp in a retrofit
<zkms>
awh ;;
<daveshah>
The first detect trigger will active an inspector sands announcement over the pa
<daveshah>
So someone can investigate
<daveshah>
Then various criteria cause an actual evacuation
<azonenberg_work>
gruetzkopf: The purpose of the pull station is for me to tip off people upstairs if something goes really bad in the lab
<azonenberg_work>
give them an extra 30 sec to evacuate before there's a big enough fire for the alarm to ring
<gruetzkopf>
yeah i have push-button alarms everywhere
<gruetzkopf>
most are missing their glass cover
<azonenberg_work>
yeah no covers on this
<azonenberg_work>
its in a secured area, i dont expect vandalism/false alarms to be an issue
<azonenberg_work>
the lab will be off limits to any future nerdlings too
<daveshah>
In the UK the glass cover is the alarm
<daveshah>
No push buttons here
<gruetzkopf>
my fire alarm system is basically to code
<gruetzkopf>
but not connected to "official" go-direct-to-fire-station network
<azonenberg_work>
mine is in excess of residential code but doesnt meet commercial code as its mostly built out of resi components
<azonenberg_work>
the lab in general is like that
<azonenberg_work>
i'm being tested to commercial code but tried to target commercial standards when possible
<azonenberg_work>
being tested to residential*
<gruetzkopf>
we're well in excess of commercial minimum
<gruetzkopf>
we wouldn't even need a fire alarm system by code, and we have like basically double the detectors / room that code wants, on 2 seperate rings
<azonenberg_work>
I have one on each side of the lab, one in every bedroom, one at the top of the stairs and one in the mudroom at the bottom
<azonenberg_work>
but it's not a full commercial fire alarm system with a FACP
<azonenberg_work>
its just peer to peer interconnected alarms that i am hacking some extra features into
<gruetzkopf>
i have FACP and everything
<gruetzkopf>
just no certified uplink
<gruetzkopf>
dry contact into ISDN/IP/GSM alarm thingy from the burglar alarm, and then horrible stuff to get alarm texts from the backup operator panel via modbus/TCP
<azonenberg_work>
well it wouldnt be that hard to upgrade later on
<azonenberg_work>
i have 14/4 MC/FPLP running to each alarm station
<gruetzkopf>
no hardwired phone/internet yet
<gruetzkopf>
so GSM it is
<azonenberg_work>
so as long as i can put both sensor and alarm unit in one electrical box (they need not be self triggering) i could put whatever i want there
<gruetzkopf>
having sounders in the detectors is quite convenient
<azonenberg_work>
Right now my standard is black/white = mains AC, green = safety earth, red = 9V interconnect signal reference to mains neutral, blue = 24V DC triggered by relay during alarm state
<azonenberg_work>
for supplemental alert devices
<azonenberg_work>
also speaking of modbus and such i was just talking to somebody in anoerht channel
wbraun has quit [Quit: wbraun]
<azonenberg_work>
about building a not-sucky PLC based on modern tech free of legacy BS
<azonenberg_work>
it would be based on probably a small spartan-7 FPGA, power and upstream communications via gigabit PoE
<gruetzkopf>
JB-Y(ST)Y 2*2*0.8 for me, and i only really need one pair
<gruetzkopf>
not-sucky PLC IO for me is ethercat stuff