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<omnitechnomancer> Ethernet switch ASIC vendors seem really bad about public docs yea
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<davidc__> omnitechnomancer: probably because their private dox are hot garbage
<davidc__> omnitechnomancer: (I've had access to dox from many of the major switch vendors, including some fairly high-end ASICs)
<azonenberg> yeah ask rqou about his experiences with switch asics some time lol
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<omnitechnomancer> davidc__: yea, and also the errata is abundant
<omnitechnomancer> davidc__: also they dont seem very interested in selling stuff to people who wont buy significant quantities
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<azonenberg> davidc__, omnitechnomancer: yes, broadcom et al are now on my blacklist of companies i refuse to do business with, as a direct result of these engineer-hostile business practices
<azonenberg> if i ever need to buy a million of some chip in the future, you bet it's not coming from broadcom
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<omnitechnomancer> azonenberg: Yea....
<azonenberg> omnitechnomancer: Marvell and vitesse are the other companies on the blacklist
<azonenberg> Qualcomm is not on there yet, as i've never actually tried to buy their chips and been told "no"
<azonenberg> but you can bet that if i ever tried, they'd end up on it :p
<omnitechnomancer> Indeed, is there any reasonable source of ethernet PHYs that is not that way?
<azonenberg> for 1G? yes, there's two good choices depending on your requirements
<omnitechnomancer> The most annoying part is when lattice puts marvell PHYs on a dev board and then cant give you the datasheets for them
<azonenberg> The micrel (now microchip) ksz9031rnx is a solid low-cost RGMII PHY, also comes in a GMII variant i think although i've never used that
<azonenberg> they make a 10/100 version i've heard good things about but never used
<azonenberg> it's basic, doesnt have a lot of fancy features, but does include a very basic tdr-based link tester
<azonenberg> fully open datasheet, $2-4 on digikey iirc depending on volume
<azonenberg> If you want something a bit fancier, the ti dp83867 has a lot more debug registers, supports SGMII mode, and has a much nicer multi-peak based TDR tester. But it's also a fair bit more expensive
<azonenberg> For 10G i pretend baseT doesn't exist and just use SFP+s directly to an FPGA
<gruetzkopf> he said the v-word
<gruetzkopf> have stuff i need to publish
<gruetzkopf> gained code execution on a vitesse SAS expander
<tnt> azonenberg: who do you go with if you need a pcie switch ?
<azonenberg> tnt: nobody, i've never used pcie in a project
<azonenberg> i live in the land of ethernet
<omnitechnomancer> azonenberg: I wish that lattice and other companies selling dev/eval boards thought of this sort of thing when adding ethernet to them
<azonenberg> Me too
<gruetzkopf> SFP cage isn't even a bad form factor for the transceivers
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<omnitechnomancer> SFP or SFP+ cages are at least not directly chips you cant get datasheets for
<azonenberg> yeah
<azonenberg> the cages and connectors are commodity
<azonenberg> the pinout is well documented
<azonenberg> transceiver are easy to get in qty 1
<omnitechnomancer> The interface is at least vaguely standard
<azonenberg> it's very well standardized in the SFF MSAs
<omnitechnomancer> I do not have a high expectation of things working when it comes to networking things...
<azonenberg> i've actually had very good results with ethernet compared to other stuff working well without a lot of fighting
<azonenberg> compared to something like usb
<omnitechnomancer> staying away from broadcom and marvell probably helps with that
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> yes
<gruetzkopf> i've had a few stupid (intentional) vendor lock in things
<gruetzkopf> and hp switches not liking fake hp branded optics, but seeing finisair made dell labeled optics as hp original
<gruetzkopf> also current intel NICs
<tnt> I wish FS would publish the programming docs for the transceivers so you can reprogram them youself :)
<gruetzkopf> couldn't yet bring myself to aquire a fs coding box and tracing i2c
<azonenberg> fs optics are too cheap. just buy more for another nic lol
<tnt> It's more to know for instance how to switch them between 1000-basex mode and sgmii mode and stuff like that.
<whitequark> fs?
<whitequark> ah, finisair
<tnt> No, fiberstore
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<ZirconiumX> The alphabet, according to Intel: A, B, C0, C1, E0, E1, F0, F1
<jn__> lol
<ZirconiumX> Bonus points for marking the E0 input as DATAF on your diagram and vice versa
<ZirconiumX> And for marking the C1 input as DATAD *and* DATAC
<tnt> wtf ?
<ZirconiumX> https://puu.sh/EY1Gq/eb8896c7e6.png <--- I'm having to make notes myself on the diagram
<tnt> ok, that makes a bit more sense.
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<s_frit> does anyone know anything about this "Upduino 2.1"? https://www.tindie.com/products/tinyvision_ai/upduino-v21-low-cost-fpga-board/
<ZirconiumX> s_frit: Based on an iCE40 UP5K
<ZirconiumX> The description is fairly straightforward.
<swetland> looks like basically a breakout board for up5k+spiflash+ftdi. price seems fair for what it is.
<s_frit> ZirconiumX: what i meant was, given that this seems to be a clone of "Upduino 2.0" which apparently is made by someone completely different, does anyone know what the story is
<s_frit> I own an Upduino 2.0 from Gnarly Grey
<gruetzkopf> oh, carlsbad, california
<gruetzkopf> not Karlsbad, germany
<tnt> I know it has horrible power routing
<ZirconiumX> "The original design for the UPduino v2.0 was from GnarlyGrey. The design for the UPduino was transferred to tinyVision.ai by Lattice Semiconductor recently."
<tnt> that's really all I need to know.
<s_frit> ZirconiumX: oh, i didn't see that.
<whitequark> upduino 2.0 was made by some kid in sri lanka for the director of marketing at lattice
<ZirconiumX> "4 layer board, redo routing, decoupling, ground and power distribution"
<ZirconiumX> Seems almost like they scrapped the original design and started again
<tnt> ZirconiumX: that's in the "TODO" list ...
<tnt> Check the gerbers ...
<gruetzkopf> suspiciously few (zero) inner layers
<tnt> Ah yeah, the 3.0 looks more decent.
<omnitechnomancer> ZirconiumX: no D?
<ZirconiumX> No D :P
<omnitechnomancer> No FX either?
<ZirconiumX> There's F0 and F1
<omnitechnomancer> FX is the common name for the second combnatorial output in things I have seen
<ZirconiumX> They're both just referred to as "COMBOUT"
<omnitechnomancer> As in F0 and F1 are the main output and FX0 and FX1 are extra outputs, which usually are used for LUT combining
<ZirconiumX> Mm
<ZirconiumX> I'm working mostly from the manual and Quartus diagram
<omnitechnomancer> Indeed, I expect Altera stuff is different
<omnitechnomancer> what I have seen is mostly lattice and things that may well be highly lattice inspired
<omnitechnomancer> What is R for?
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<ZirconiumX> Excellent question.
<sorear> oh nice, Carlsbad
<omnitechnomancer> ZirconiumX: I would maybe guess subtraction but who knows
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<ZirconiumX> The muxes themselves control the adder input; the ALM has a bunch of different "modes"
<ZirconiumX> Though I don't know if the ALM sets the muxes from the modes or if the modes are just configurations of muxes and routing
<omnitechnomancer> Is R a config bit or a pin?
<omnitechnomancer> or port I guess
<ZirconiumX> I don't know at present
<ZirconiumX> I don't see much point in it being runtime configurable
<omnitechnomancer> cause I would possibly guess its for switchable add/sub but who knows
<omnitechnomancer> anyway, good luck with the deciphering, I require sleep.
<ZirconiumX> Add/sub can be done in the LUTs
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<tnt> "This email is to inform you that 1 piece of part number 220-LIFCL-40-8SG72CES-ND has been cancelled from your Digi-Key Sales Order" "Though CrossLink-NX is new and recently launched, the supplier has depleted ES(Engineer Sample) grade silicon"
<daveshah> :(
<tnt> I guess now just have to wait for production silicon. I was really hoping to get a second qfn72 quickly :/
<daveshah> It's annoying, DigiKey support told me on web chat just the other day they were still available
<tnt> I've had it backordered for > 2 weeks so if they still had some I guess they just didn't want to ship them to me.
<daveshah> I have one on backorder too
<daveshah> although -7 not -8
<daveshah> not too hopeful though
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