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<pie_> why are there 14 bravais lattices?
<pie_> why isnt this entire grid full https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravais_lattice
<pie_> wrong chan
<pie_> my ##openfpga is right next to my ##physics
<qu1j0t3> that makes sense in a way
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<sensille> and "lattice" is not obviously wrong here
<sorear> historically basically anything is on-topic here
<sensille> as on most channels :)
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<pie_> sensille: oh haha
<pie_> didnt even realize
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<agg> i want to design a board with an ecp5 that will run a riscv softcore (probably minerva) which provides a jtag debug option, in theory at least i think i could daisychain the jtag so one connector/probe can debug both fpga and softcore
<agg> but in practice would this be dumb? for instance afaict if the software was not working or not configured, there'd be no daisychain, so I wouldn't get jtag to the fpga either
<agg> alternatively does the ecp5 have any internal access to the jtag chain which could be done at configuration time? i can't see anything about that in TN02039
<daveshah> You can use the JTAGG primitive for that
<agg> aah, that sounds like precisely the answer i wanted, i'll check the tech lib
<daveshah> It's not really documented, but it enables access to the fabric via JTAG at runtime using two private opcodes
<agg> I see what you mean by not really documented
<agg> "Most users would typically not use this
<agg> component directly."
<agg> if it needs private opcodes that means my jtag debugger would have to do more than the usual scan chain to find the softcore?
<agg> not sure if that's a problem really, definitely running before walking with this project
<daveshah> Yes, the JTAG debugger would need to understand those
<agg> how worthwhile is the ecp5 jtag access? i'm coming from ice40 where of course it's just spi configuration and no jtag
<zyp> oh, there is a jtag primitive? I actually went looking for that in the ecp5 docs a few weeks ago and came to the conclusion that there didn't appear to be one
<agg> zyp: the "FPGA Libraries Reference Guide" document has it and all(?) the other primitives
<agg> it doesn't seem to have a document number or other identifier, heh
<zyp> yeah, you're right
<agg> but it doesn't really have much to say about it beyond its existence
<zyp> it's not mentioned at all in e.g. TN-02039
<agg> yea, that's where i was looking and not finding anything either
<zyp> that said, is there a particular reason you want to use jtag as a debug transport? just saving pins?
<agg> for the ecp5 or the softcore?
<zyp> for the softcore
<agg> what else would I use as a debug transport? I've not used a risc-v core at all before or really any softcore, just used to mcus where i'd always bring out jtag or swd
<agg> i expect my first attempt will just be writing the spi flash with both the bitstream and the firmware image and hoping an led blinks first time :p
<zyp> uart, for instance
<zyp> e.g. vexriscv on litex can be debugged over any wishbone bridge, including the uart bridge
<agg> huh, I guess that works too
<zyp> I've also toyed with the idea of running a gdbserver on e.g. a serv instance, managing a larger cpu, accessable through a uart or usb-serial
<daveshah> sounds like blackmagicprobe
<zyp> daveshah, exactly
<zyp> I'm using blackmagic probe for all my cortex-m stuff, big fan of the simplicity :)
<agg> i have a little firmware for an stm32f0 that does usb to spi/swd/jtag/uart, so was going to stick that on for doing flash programming anyway
<agg> mm, bmps are lovely
<agg> but yea i guess i can basically already have a usb-serial into the fpga. I guess at this point i'll just route a lot of things and keep my options open :P
<agg> i was planning on using minerva in nmigen and probably doing the bus/interconnects myself since I don't need much here, but maybe that is a waste of effort, i'll check out litex again
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<whitequark> agg: there's nmigen-soc too
<agg> Is that in a usable state atm? I've only had a very brief look at it
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<whitequark> agg: for simple designs based on minerva i think it should work!
<whitequark> if not, let's make it so that it works, there's a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem
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<agg> Good to hear, that'll be my first candidate then
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