06:20 <keesj> https://github.com/google/skywater-pdk | https://skywater-pdk.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

06:23 <sorear> woah

06:25 <keesj> The usual suspects working on this but I was not aware of the google collaboration

06:29 <sorear> can someone tell me where the _actual documentation_ is?

06:30 <sorear> I see an autogenerated python thing ?? but nothing with physical units, no discussion of DRC rules, etc

06:33 <sorear> I take it this is a placeholder project and the "documentation" part happens later?

06:35 <keesj> it indeed looks more like .. it might happen at one point/ did not find the download links)

08:30 <whitequark> tnt: how's icepick going?

08:40 <tnt> whitequark: It's not really ... I wanted it only has a finished device only with nice case/cable etc ... so I can hopefully reach the min qty to have theses made. But finished device also means no exemption from CE/FCC/... so need testing for that and I think all in all I'd end up with a retail price too high vs Glasgow.

09:14 <whitequark> ahhh, huh

09:14 <whitequark> that's a really unexpected result

09:14 <whitequark> but it makes sense. hope it works out somehow for you, still

14:58 <kbeckmann> regarding exepmption from ce/fcc and so on, where is the line drawn between a "diy kit" and a "product"? is having the user solder headers to a pcb enough for this?

14:58 <kbeckmann> maybe it's not an easy question to answed and i guess it's judged case by case

15:02 <tnt> kbeckmann: like many things, it'd be up to the judge if it's ever contested ... But I think generally if it's usable for its primary purposes without the user having to solder anything, you'd have a hard time arguing it's a kit.

15:02 <tnt> Especially if it ships with case and accessories ...

15:03 <kbeckmann> mm i see..

15:06 <kbeckmann> wonder if software is enough for this? if you ship it without firmware/gateware and require the used to provision it, then it really isn't a usable product out of the box. but i guess these kinds of workarounds are kinda obvious and might not hold up in court. i have no clue...

15:07 <kbeckmann> s/used/user.. having a bad keyboard day today apparently.

15:07 <tnt> Yeah, I don't think that would hold up ... most hardware need some kind of software on the host pc ... wether that sw flashes something to the device seems irrelevant.

15:14 <kbeckmann> hmm i just started looking this up, but there seems to be an exeption for commercial test equipment. have you seen https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/398 and https://emcfastpass.com/could-your-product-be-exempt-from-emc-testing-altogether/ ?

15:14 <kbeckmann> and i guess icepick would classicy as that?

15:22 <tnt> For FCC maybe. But don't think test equipment is an exclusion class from CE EMC&ESD.

15:23 <kbeckmann> okay, what a pain :(

15:24 <kbeckmann> thinking if i have to "diy-ify" my pergola/ecp5 board or if it can be classified as an evaluation kit. don't really have the capacity to handle fcc/ce testing and i will probably not make more than a hundred or so units.

15:41 <pie_> anyone maybe know something about eze tracker hardware and if these perhaps do something relatively standard over that connector? https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Dell-Alienware-17-R4-Tobii-Eye-Tracker-Module-Board-CHA01-YW64G-33F74/133321801073

15:41 <pie_> im wondering if i might be able to just use one of these instead of the much more expensive nicely packaged versions

15:52 <pie_> 1:06:07 looks like standard usb then? https://invidio.us/watch?v=vJ5F4_ehqkE

15:54 <pie_> I mean the connector looks the same

23:07 <Bird|otherbox> kbeckmann, are you not even in a position to approximate precompliance tests?

23:34 <azonenberg> Bird|otherbox: I recently picked up some nearfield EMC test probes to play with

23:34 <Bird|otherbox> azonenberg, nice :)

23:35 <azonenberg> but the challenge i have at this point is that I don't have any absolute intensity standard to compare to

23:35 <azonenberg> Like, i can find the spots that radiate more strongly (normally SMPSes)

23:35 <azonenberg> But i have no idea how that intensity compares to fcc limits

23:35 <Bird|otherbox> yeah, nearfield probes are basically used to hunt down *why* a board is flunking FCC tests, to the best of my understanding

23:36 <azonenberg> Yeah. Still seem like a useful tool in the box but not a complete solution

23:37 <Bird|otherbox> I own a subGhz specan (RF Explorer) myself...that, a suitably directional wideband antenna, a plastic carousel, a plastic table, and a suitable outdoor space 9might even be able todo it in my yard) would be sufficient to do approximate farfield EMC measurements I reckon