ChanServ changed the topic of ##yamahasynths to: Channel dedicated to questions and discussion of Yamaha FM Synthesizer internals and corresponding REing. Discussion of synthesis methods similar to the Yamaha line of chips, Sound Blasters + clones, PCM chips like RF5C68, and CD theory of operation are also on-topic. Channel logs:
<Lord_Nightmare> <cr1901_modern> One thing I'm curious about is whether OPLL uses implant ROM from the presets <- it does. see
<Lord_Nightmare> to be honest we do not yet have a decap of the REAL ym2413, I'm sending one to whitequark shortly
<Lord_Nightmare> we have (probably) the ymf281
<Lord_Nightmare> er wait
<Lord_Nightmare> gah
<Lord_Nightmare> i thought you said 'whether the vrc7 uses implant ROM
<Lord_Nightmare> sorry
<cr1901_modern> I know VRC7 uses implant :P
<Lord_Nightmare> i'm guessing the ym2413B DOES use implant, but the 2413b is sort of rare, i think it was surfacemount only
<Lord_Nightmare> there's a seller on alibaba selling ym2414B OPZ chips, might be nice to get one of those decapped
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<Lord_Nightmare> its basically a ym2151 with 8 waveforms like the opl3, instead of just sine
<Lord_Nightmare> used on tx81-z
<cr1901_modern> huh...
<cr1901_modern> I wish I was awake when nukeykt was in the room... had some qs for them
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<cr1901_modern> Were the SAA chips kinda like AY-3s?
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<Lord_Nightmare> saa chips are like two sn76496 chips tied together (hence six squarewave channels and two noise channels) but using an ay-style address-select-write-then-data-write interface
<Lord_Nightmare> they have a mixer matrix and master left/right volume controls on them which is very similar to the gameboy
<Lord_Nightmare> creative labs using chips which are basically 'two of another type of chip tied together' seems to be a trend
<Lord_Nightmare> cr1901_modern: ^
<cr1901_modern> aren't there 2 saa chips on sound blaster?
<Lord_Nightmare> yes
<Lord_Nightmare> so they have 16 channels total, four of which are noise
<Lord_Nightmare> can probably do some very sweet sounding drums with that by messing around a bit
<cr1901_modern> hmmm
<cr1901_modern> wonder how good they'd be at emulating VRC6 (sic)
<Lord_Nightmare> the issue is the saw channel and pulse width
<Lord_Nightmare> vrc6 has 8 widths
<Lord_Nightmare> as comapred to 2a03/nes's 4
<Lord_Nightmare> i don't know if the pulse width in the saa1099 is controllable at all
<Lord_Nightmare> aha, you CAN do saw and tri on the saa1099, but only on two channels, and by abusing the envelope generator which is sort of similar to the ay-3-8910
<cr1901_modern> Would be fun to emulate this soundtrack
<cr1901_modern> Dunno why, but VRC6 music sounds more metallic/harsher than NES
<cr1901_modern> Been told it has to do w/ the DAC
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* cr1901_modern waves to andlabs
<cr1901_modern> I have a q if you're around :3... do you still talk to sik?
<cr1901_modern> I imagine they'd like to be in here to- ahhh, they have a twitter acct.
<cr1901_modern> And apparently I've chatted w/ them before. Oops ._.
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<andlabs> sik is mainly isolated to discord now but sure I can try poking them
<cr1901_modern> thanks, I also sent a twitter msg
<cr1901_modern> and yes, fair I guess :P
<cr1901_modern> There _is_ a Yamaha Synths Discord run by Savaged Regime
<cr1901_modern> IIRC
<andlabs> heh
<andlabs> I still havnen't set up any of my synths
<andlabs> need more space
<andlabs> also need to find a PCM device
<andlabs> can't talk now though, train's at my stop
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<cr1901_modern> hah
<Lord_Nightmare> sik... is that the x|k who made the original midines?
<cr1901_modern> Their handle is sikthehedgehog
<cr1901_modern> they're active on spritesmind IIRC
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<cr1901_modern> andlabs: What mobile IRC client do you use?
<andlabs> I don't
<andlabs> this was tethered wifi
<cr1901_modern> ahhh
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<Lord_Nightmare> andlabs is that discord public/invitable to?
<cr1901_modern> The FM synth discord? Or the one sik is on?
<cr1901_modern> The former- yes, but the last link I saw was expired, the latter- Idk
<Lord_Nightmare> "Yamaha Synths Discord run by Savaged Regime"
<cr1901_modern> Last link I saw to it was expired, but it is nominally public
<cr1901_modern> Lord_Nightmare: All I have is their email, and damned if I know if they use it
<cr1901_modern> You can find it on their YT page
* cr1901_modern doesn't want to post it for bots to pick up since this channel is logged
<Lord_Nightmare> ah. pm me?
<cr1901_modern> I'd be interested in a discord bridge, but I have no plans to join a discord
<andlabs> I think sik's is public-ish, to complete the question
<andlabs> but it's focused on mega drive development
<andlabs> if you have the oscilloscope images from the YM2612 research saved somehow, then do send it to them
<cr1901_modern> I think whitequark _might_ do a set of traces
<cr1901_modern> But I'm not gonna put words in her mouth- could be misremembering
<cr1901_modern> Lord_Nightmare: Also:
<Lord_Nightmare> Foone_: ooh free macs!
<Lord_Nightmare> the miniscribe drives in the SEs are probably dead or have the foam head thing disintegrated and siezed. I think someone on ccmp figured out how to fix that, I have two affected drives here
<Lord_Nightmare> also test the batteries in the SEs (and dump the pram if you can?)
<Lord_Nightmare> SEs use a varta barrel lithium battery which lasts an obscenely long time. the one in my SE was actually still good when i removed it 10 years ago
<Lord_Nightmare> they're soldered down unlike later macs (but like the earliest mac II and earlier apple IIgs)
<Lord_Nightmare> so you may need to find and install a socket for the battery
<Foone_> definitely will do. I've got some similar macs so I'm hoping to combine them with these and get more working macs. these are known to be broken, so I'm hoping they're just broken in different ways
<cr1901_modern> free macs? Anyone want to send a fat mac my way for shipping :P?
<cr1901_modern> Actually I want one that can run NetBSD
<Foone_> which ones are those?
<cr1901_modern> Well a Quadra was the one I wanted
<cr1901_modern> se/30 is another
<andlabs> oh speaking of old computers with weird disks
<andlabs> I've got a sealed PC-88 game coming in the mail soon
<andlabs> and I'm gonna have to figure out how to dump it
<TD-Linux> nice
<TD-Linux> PC-88 disks are pretty easy to dump
<TD-Linux> should be able to use a normal IBM compatible drive to dump it
<andlabs> assuming they don't have any weird stuff like commodore disks
<TD-Linux> or use a pc-98
<andlabs> or an entirely custom MFM or GRD thing
<andlabs> the idea being it would be the first preservation-quality dump of a PC-88 game
<andlabs> though as a rule for floppy games I would insist we dump from sealed copies
* cr1901_modern 's ears perk up
<cr1901_modern> did... somebody say Em Eff Em?
<TD-Linux> I have an applesauce and intend to get it working on PC-88/98/x68k but haven't yet
<TD-Linux> but for the most part byte level copies are fine for that system
<andlabs> also the start of a specific type of collection for me
<andlabs> a specific company's body of work
<TD-Linux> strip majong I assume
<andlabs> now I will sleep
<andlabs> lol
<andlabs> I'm not on the PC-98 yet :V
<cr1901_modern> You could play all the pc-98 games back to back for the rest of your life and you couldn't get through all that porn.
<andlabs> and in fact I don't know if this company ever released anything PC-98
<andlabs> but anyway as for fat macs
<andlabs> good luck getting your mdoern SCSI devices working :D
<cr1901_modern> Setting up a fat mac would be a frustrating experience for me I imagine
<andlabs> apparently the SE does not like SCSI SD card readers
<cr1901_modern> I mean I'd try to get spinning rust if possible
<andlabs> if I were ever in the market for a 68k mac for any reason I would probably try to go for ... actually I'm not sure
<andlabs> IIRC there's compatibility problems even between different 68k macs
<andlabs> so
<andlabs> but yes good night
<cr1901_modern> good night
* cr1901_modern gives andlabs a nightcap
<andlabs> :3
<cr1901_modern> now if only I could sleep and I wasn't running on "fuck you" hours :(
<andlabs> I do have an iBook G4 though
<andlabs> I plan on testing some things out on it
<andlabs> mostly programming-related questions
<cr1901_modern> 68k before powerpc for me
* TD-Linux uses a scsi mo drive for transferring files between pcs
<andlabs> the fun of Cocoa
<cr1901_modern> libui port when?
<andlabs> not happening
<andlabs> it requires 10.8
<cr1901_modern> heh
<andlabs> but I do need to find a few things that aren't well documented
<andlabs> like how NSBitmapImageRep behaves on a big-endian system
<andlabs> so I can fix this stupid alpha blending image bug
<andlabs> also to see if I succeeded in writing a command-line program which as a challenge to myself I tried to write to run on as many versions of OS X as possible
<andlabs> if that succeeded then I'll probably just rewrite this for modern macs because it's mainly for my own purposes but still
<cr1901_modern> I parsed that as "mac getal bums"
<andlabs> sure thing sean connery
<cr1901_modern> Bahahaha
<cr1901_modern> HAHAHA *coughs*
<andlabs> "getal bum covers"
<cr1901_modern> potent potables
<andlabs> (but yes afk for real now)
<cr1901_modern> night!
<cr1901_modern> For those who don't get the Sean Connery reference: (It _might've_ been a bit obscure)
<Xyz_39808> SAA1099 is much more closer to dual AY than dual SN
<cr1901_modern> That was my feeling from listening to a CMS demo
<Xyz_39808> iirc, the sheet says it's got the same 32 noise freqs, and two hard env generators that are the same in function as AYs
<Xyz_39808> btw I think the discord is Maj7 or something
<Xyz_39808> no wait, that's the jazz one
<cr1901_modern> How'd you find this channel out of morbid curiosity?
<cr1901_modern> I advertise it sometimes on hellsite, but it's not like I have extensive reach
<Xyz_39808> probably youtube
<cr1901_modern> Oh right... there was a video doing a Snort Bopper build
<Xyz_39808> oh wait, SAA noise freq is pretty much exactly like SN, 3 freqs, 4th is copy tone. I think the freq of the channel it's on or soething
<ValleyBell> For each set of 3 channels, you can enable square and/or noise, similar to the AY. The noise frequency is taken from channel 0, the envelope generator is clocked by channel 1.
<ValleyBell> something like that
<Xyz_39808> the rules are kinda complicated and the block diagram is actually the best way to understand it.
<Xyz_39808> assuming an 8Mhz clock, the noise freqs are 31,300 Hz, 15,600 Hz, 7,600 Hz and Copy Ch0. Or copy Ch3 in the case of the 2nd noise gen
<Sarayan> And Ch1 if mercury is in precession vs. neptune?
<ValleyBell> It's some sort of mix between AY and SN PSG.
<Xyz_39808> freqs in SAA are /256, /512 and /1024. In SN they're /512 /1024 and /2048
<Lord_Nightmare> td-linux you need to talk to tony diaz on re: adding more features to the applesauce
<Lord_Nightmare> iirc he's working on something relating to that
<Foone_> is the applesauce guy open to expanding it to non-apple disks?
<Foone_> I didn't realize that was a possibility
<TD-Linux> I mean, I got one with the intention of doing it :)
<TD-Linux> the A2R format should work with any disk encoding
<TD-Linux> I also don't have a mac so I was going to write my own interface to get the A2Rs out
<Foone_> that'd be handy
<Foone_> I'm using os x in a vm with mine
<cr1901_modern> So it's essential a super AY-3... so the snort blargher is a trifecta of super AY-3, FM synthesis, and PCM
<cr1901_modern> (Well, short PCM snippets*)
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<cr1901_modern> Sarayan: I can't sleep and I'm bored... is your PhD dissertation online to read anywhere in English?
<whitequark> 04:17 < cr1901_modern> I think whitequark _might_ do a set of traces
<whitequark> yes i'll take photos of 2612
<cr1901_modern> in this context I meant oscilloscope traces :P, which is why I included the next "cover my ass" clause that "I may be misremembering"
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* cr1901_modern waves to nukeykt
<cr1901_modern> thanks for stopping by :)
<ValleyBell> hi nukeykt
<cr1901_modern> Are there any major differences besides lack of "ladder effect" in this core?
<cr1901_modern> compared to a YM2612*
<ZirconiumX> nukeykt: you should upload NukedOPL3 to GitHub too.
<cr1901_modern> Seems to be afk, but at least they have this channel on autojoin :P
<nukeykt> hi. I've already implemented ladder effect in my core, though my offset constant might be incorrrect
<cr1901_modern> well I thought the CMOS core fixed ladder effect, so I was wondering if there were _other_ differences
<nukeykt> It's fixed in YM3438. There are no any other differences besides reading from port other than 0, which is undefined behavior
<cr1901_modern> Ahhh
<nukeykt> I think there are some misinformation like timers or busy flag behaves differently in discrete YM3438 compared to YM2612 and asic variant
<cr1901_modern> I'm under the impression that "nobody at present has gotten YM2612 100% right", but pretty close now
<cr1901_modern> (feel free to correct me)
<ValleyBell> I don't think you can get closer to an actual YM2612 than NukedOPN2.
<cr1901_modern> At some point in the near-to-mid future, there will be some FOSS FPGA gateware that can run a YM-whatever chip in tandem w/ a software version. The idea is if there's ever a mismatch, stop the simulation and report back to the user.
<cr1901_modern> If I ever get the damn YM2151 REing done, I'll test against that when developing my own core
<nukeykt> Out of curiosity, are there any other die shots available besides siliconpr0n ones and 2612.
<cr1901_modern> wq is making a set
<cr1901_modern> Is the pipeline in ym2612 actually 12 cycles? Or is that just the maximum amount of cycles that must elapse before a write is honored?
<nukeykt> pipeline is 24 cycles, ym2612 just has two parallel shift registers size of 12 for each operator parameter bits
<cr1901_modern> So only one shift register is active at a time (alternating between the two every 12 cycles I guess), but since there are two of them it only takes 12 cycles maximum for any write to be honored?
<nukeykt> yeah
<cr1901_modern> wonder if 2151 does the same, except for 16 cycles (8 channels * 4 ops / 2 shregs)
<nukeykt> Looks like not
<cr1901_modern> Well, if I get off my rear end, I could figure it out soon
<cr1901_modern> nukeykt: Do you use a bouncer out of curiosity?
<nukeykt> what is it?
<cr1901_modern> piece of software to stay connected to IRC when you're not at your computer
<cr1901_modern> Asking mainly because activity in this channel happens in bursts, and the first time you logged on yesterday... there was none when you logged on :P
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<nukeykt> I use webchat right now. I joined here just out of curiosity
<cr1901_modern> ahhh okay. Main exciting thing that happened today is that we're doing a PCB run for Sound Blaster clone
<cr1901_modern> And I should do some streaming of ym2151 vectorization if my laptop's up for it
<cr1901_modern> whitequark: Is the OPL gateway down?
<cr1901_modern> I forgot that since you have OPL3 support now, I can make VGMs of this type:
<cr1901_modern> nukeykt: Is there in fact a nukedOPL3?
<cr1901_modern> nukeykt:; We ran into an issue a few nights ago re: OPL3
<cr1901_modern> Now we all know Yamaha datasheets suck; the "wait 32 cycles" number they give only applies to "OPL3" mode, but the datasheet does a horrible job of explaining it
<cr1901_modern> Experimentally, if you put the chip in OPL2 mode, you have to wait 36 cycles at 3.58MHz or 144 cycles at 14.3MHz
<cr1901_modern> 36 cycles makes sense for OPL2- 9 channels, 4 cycles per channel. Do you have any idea why the wait becomes 32 cycles in OPL3 mode
<nukeykt> It's 32 external cycles, which equals to 4 internal cycles. Unlike earlier chips YMF262 does not use shift register
<nukeykt> It uses RAM
<cr1901_modern> But we experimentally verified that it requires 36 external cycles in OPL2 mode
<whitequark> cr1901_modern: yes, it's down, i can bring it up
<cr1901_modern> whitequark: Ahhh I was just wondering... I'm going to bed soon
<cr1901_modern> nukeykt: >(7:05:27 AM) cr1901_modern: But we experimentally verified that it requires 36 external cycles in OPL2 mode <-- Ignore this message, I messed up
<nukeykt> It also does not depend on OPL3 mode bit
<whitequark> nukeykt: it does.
<cr1901_modern> nukeykt: When the chip is in OPL2 mode, whitequark had to wait 144 cycles (36*4) between writes for music to play properly.
<whitequark> nukeykt: if NEW=0, unless I wait exactly 144 cycles after address AND data, the chip ignores at least some writes.
<whitequark> waiting 128 cycles after address and data is not enough. waiting 128 cycles after address and 144 cycles after data is not enough. waiting 136 cycles is not enough.
<whitequark> I am completely confident in this findings as I've spent many hours figuring out what exact condition is required for correct OPL2 playback.
<nukeykt> really? I dunno how it's possible given OPL3 uses RAM unlike OPL2
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<whitequark> well check it yourself if you don't believe me
<cr1901_modern1> Of course I would time out
<whitequark> I use the exact same code for driving it in OPL2 mode and OPL3 mode
<whitequark> in OPL3 mode, 32 cycles appears always enough
<whitequark> 32/32 for address/data
<whitequark> in OPL2, that is definitely not the case.
<cr1901_modern1> incidentally, 144 cycles at 14.3MHz is still less time than an actual OPL2 chip has to wait (84 cycles @ 3.58 MHz)
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<cr1901_modern1> Possible that the OPL2 portion checks the RAM less frequently?
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<cr1901_modern> nukeykt: Was the opl3 code you linked also based on REing die images?
<cr1901_modern> (It's gonna be a... huge mess if your opl3 takes 32 cycles regardless of mode while wq's opl3 takes 32/144 cycles)
<nukeykt> v1.8 is partially based on die shor RE
<nukeykt> EG and rhythm mode for example
<cr1901_modern> I see... Is there any possibility you could test your own OPL3 in OPL2 mode for cycle counts? I'd like a point of comparison. >>
<cr1901_modern> (And by that I mean "I pray to God they match")
<nukeykt> Not soon. Last time i did Yamha FM RE work was about one year ago
<cr1901_modern> I didn't mean die image RE :). I meant hooking it up your OPL3 to a microcontroller or FPGA and deliberately writing to it faster than 144 cycles and seeing what happens
<cr1901_modern> (the rabbit hole never ends)
<nukeykt> BTW last year i was REing vrc7 and found some interesting things about it
<whitequark> cr1901_modern: is up
<nukeykt> I recall if you connect pin 15 to ground VRC7 will enter to debug mode. In this mode VRC7 will have 9 voices and it's possible to dump internal ROM.
<cr1901_modern> whitequark: thanks
<nukeykt> in default mode vrc7 is hardlocked to rhythm mode and thus it's 6 channel only
<cr1901_modern> nukeykt: We were going to do a ROM stain and/or delayer to get to the VRC instruments
<cr1901_modern> if there's no need to do that, that's great
<nukeykt> I dumped only melodic instruments, no rhythm mode ones yet
<cr1901_modern> Well this was anticlimactic lol
<cr1901_modern> Why hadn't I heard about this before now :o
<Sarayan> nukeykt: that is extremely cool
<Sarayan> nukeyet: think you can do it on the 2413?
<cr1901_modern> I'm gonna run out of stuff to analyze... T_T
<cr1901_modern> (I'm curious about 2413 as well)
<nukeykt> I dunno. No ym2413 die shot available afaik, only ym2413b which is impossible to read
<Sarayan> no you're not:
<cr1901_modern> nukeykt: How'd you figure out pin 15 was a test pin? And has that pastebin been shared on other forums yet?
<nukeykt> vrc7 die shot re. Nope i didn't post it anywhere as i was working solely
<cr1901_modern> Fair. Most synth fans seem to join a few forums
<cr1901_modern> nesdev, spritesmind
<cr1901_modern> most of the ppl in here I know from hellsite- err, Twitter
<Sarayan> damn, the 2413 does not seem to have enough pins for a test one
<cr1901_modern> perhaps a delayer/stain is necessary after all
<cr1901_modern> I wonder how close kevtris' manual tables are
* cr1901_modern writes a script to check
<Sarayan> kev did a 2413?
<cr1901_modern> no, he did vrc7 in like '99
<Sarayan> ahhh
<whitequark> i'll delayer/stain all of the yamaha chips i'll get
<whitequark> it's honestly easier that way
<whitequark> the per unit cost is very low after all
<cr1901_modern> nukeykt's table is given in 8-bit units for each operator parameter
<cr1901_modern> kevtris' table maps to actual registers
<cr1901_modern> so I need to bit shift one of them to convert to the other
* cr1901_modern fires up an IPython notebook
<cr1901_modern> nukeykt: Is it okay to put this table on sipr0n wiki if I give you credit?
<nukeykt> yes
<cr1901_modern> tyvm
<cr1901_modern> screw it, I'm not going to bed right now
<Sarayan> wq: almost no yamaha chips have an implant rom in them, thankfully
<cr1901_modern> nukeykt: In your struct... what are dc, dm, et, and ksr?
<cr1901_modern> the rest I can tell
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<cr1901_modern> oops
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<cr1901_modern> nukeykt: In your struct... what are dc, dm, et, and ksr? I can tell the rest from context
<cr1901_modern> tl is, I assume, total level
<nukeykt> dc, dm is waveform
<nukeykt> et is envelope type iirc
<nukeykt> ksr is key scale rate
<cr1901_modern> Oh, and "am"
<nukeykt> amplitude modulation
<cr1901_modern> ahh okay, nesdev calls this tremolo
<cr1901_modern> and et seems to be called "sustain"
<cr1901_modern> array order is [carrier, modulator]?
<cr1901_modern> hmmm, looks like [modulator, carrier]
<nukeykt> mod carrier most likely
<nukeykt> Yeah it's mod and carrier
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<cr1901_modern> For the first instrument, kevtris got really damn close
<cr1901_modern> l_oliveira: To bring you up to speed, today we learned that VRC7 has a debug mode. nukeykt found it and dumped the instrument table
<cr1901_modern> Now I'm comparing to what kevtris got
<l_oliveira> oooo
<l_oliveira> that's outstanding
<l_oliveira> has anyone tried that with a OPLL chip?
<l_oliveira> well, there is newer revisions of the OPLL chip which could have that feature in them. like the SMD version for example
<cr1901_modern> nukeykt: your table minus kevtris' table
<cr1901_modern> source upon request
<cr1901_modern> I'd say kevtris did pretty good, considering it was 20 years ago
<l_oliveira> a sea of matches
<cr1901_modern> some of the sustains and tls are off, but it looks pretty good
<nukeykt> It's worth noting that in debug mode VRC7 changes it's pinout: Pin 4 -> /CS, Pin 27 -> /IC, Pin 28 -> /WE, Pin 19 -> A0. Also at least pins 2 and 47 somehow affect debug mode
<cr1901_modern> weird...
<l_oliveira> how you enable it?
<nukeykt> Connect pin 15 to ground
<cr1901_modern> what is pin 15 normally?
<cr1901_modern> N/C?
<nukeykt> +5v
<cr1901_modern> is there a separate rail I hope?
<cr1901_modern> err separate pin that _also_ provides 5V*
<l_oliveira> well, it's common that pins documented as power supply are not actual power pins lol
<nukeykt> I dunno, i've desoldered vrc7 from tiny toon cartridge
<l_oliveira> YM2610 has something like that
<cr1901_modern> It's funny... Tiny Toon's soundtrack is actually really good
<cr1901_modern> it would've been REALLY kickass if it used VRC7
<cr1901_modern> In case you want your own Sound Blaster clone
<l_oliveira> It's Tiny Toon2 that uses a VRC7 chip in for the mapper. They have no ceramic oscillator on that cart so the FM part is dead
<l_oliveira> "dead"
<l_oliveira> Sadly I no longer have a PC with ISA slot
<cr1901_modern> ahhh
<l_oliveira> Tiny Toon was VRC4 if I am not mistaken
<cr1901_modern> I meant the second one
<l_oliveira> ya
<cr1901_modern> the one w/ the mansion as the final stage
<l_oliveira> I think they had these games released in USA under Nintendo MMC3
<l_oliveira> both Tiny Toon games
<l_oliveira> I remember hacking some VRC2-4 games to MMC3 a couple years ago
<l_oliveira> I had to "grow" the chr rom because the MMC3 bank granularity was worse (2KB) than the VRC mappers (1KB)
<l_oliveira> had to repeat some banks D:
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<l_oliveira> out of curiosity, a lot of the instruments on the VRC7 are identical to the OPLL, no? About half of them?
<ValleyBell> whitequark: I agree with nukeykt that major differences between OPL3 NEW=0 and NEW=1 and very doubtful.
<ValleyBell> Especially because it always renders all 18 FM channels.
<whitequark> ValleyBell: then drive it yourself and see
<whitequark> mine is datecode 9528 EAMC and i've personally desoldered it from a historical Aztech card
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<ValleyBell> I'll try to do some checks with my SB16 when I have access to my old computer the next time.
<ValleyBell> My main point against "the NEW bit modifies timing" is, that there is no reason to implement this additional "feature". From what we know about OPL and OPN chips, the compatibility flags are usually just simple address/data masks.
<cr1901_modern> How do you know the OPL3 always processes all 18 channels if the upper channels are masked off?
<l_oliveira> likely because it behaves like two OPL2 in that mode?
<l_oliveira> someone mentioned it is not two physical OPL2s on the die, which makes sense. There's no point have two OPL2s in the die, one operator logic block can do all 18 channels in sequence
<l_oliveira> so it just need to do 18 channels instead of nine (run twice the speed of the one on the original chip?)
<cr1901_modern> Wohali: How long do you think we should accept new submissions on the form? Certainly we have more than enough... another 24 hrs maybe?
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<cr1901_modern> ej5: How much is a bracket hole punch again (No need for a db15 version)?
<cr1901_modern> also, good evening
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<ej5> uhh check amazon, it's not that bad
<cr1901_modern> ej5: Brands Are Not Your Friends
<cr1901_modern> Aaaaanyways, personally GHIDRA being written in Java is not a dealbreaker for me
<Lord_Nightmare> sarayan: the 2413 does have a test mode of sorts i've been told, but its less than useful for dumping the ROM
<cr1901_modern> I've dealt w/ a few decent Java programs- Areca, jEdit
<cr1901_modern> Better Java than being written in Electron >>
<cr1901_modern> /me grumbles as Atom takes 20 minutes to update 4 packages
<TD-Linux> cr1901_modern, I think it being in Java is a positive
<TD-Linux> less likely to get pwned via your own debug tool :)
<cr1901_modern> heh
<TD-Linux> also it can be upgraded to scala later :^^)
<cr1901_modern> scala insisted on including not only batteries, but also the kitchen sink, and the deed to that mansion that's been unused for 30 years
<TD-Linux> that's kinda the point
<Lord_Nightmare> ej5: if you install ghidra remember to disable the java debug thing they accidentally left enabled
<Lord_Nightmare> ask balrog how to do it, they accidentally put a * in a file which should have had 'localhost' instead
<Lord_Nightmare> so any computer on the local lan can connect as a java debugger to ghidra
<cr1901_modern> Oh, balrog's used ghidra?
<balrog> I’ve poked at it
<balrog> No time to use it
<Lord_Nightmare> once the full ghidra source gets posted, i wonder if we'll start seeing dev forks and stuff
<Lord_Nightmare> adding more cpus to it would be extremely useful
<Lord_Nightmare> it also has some bugs with a few cpus
<cr1901_modern> I hope 68k isn't one of them
<cr1901_modern> (it probably is one of them)
<Lord_Nightmare> yes, it is. theres one bug in 68k which someone posted an issue about
<cr1901_modern> since the encoding is utterly horrifying in exchange for everything else being great
<cr1901_modern> Guess there had to be a tradeoff somewhere...
<Lord_Nightmare> I think the 68k bug report even has a patch in it
<TD-Linux> Lord_Nightmare, the java debug thing is off by default
<TD-Linux> and you can't even enable it without fixing typos in the shell script :)
<cr1901_modern> the best 68k disassembler I've ever used was posted in Dr. Dobb's in like 1994
<cr1901_modern> written in C and is smart enough to detect basic blocks
<cr1901_modern> I've done a bit of sleuthing to try and contact/thank the author, but he disappeared by 2002
<TD-Linux> Lord_Nightmare, hopefully they will maintain upstream well enough that we can just send prs
<TD-Linux> if they don't, another upstream will emerge
<TD-Linux> cr1901_modern, ghidra already supports 68k
<cr1901_modern> TD-Linux: >(6:19:40 PM) Lord_Nightmare: yes, it is. theres one bug in 68k which someone posted an issue about
<TD-Linux> I've used it, it works quite well
<cr1901_modern> ahhh
<TD-Linux> lol the 68k bug is from someone else at moz
<cr1901_modern> I was looking at a RF5C68 PCM driver back in December, curious how it worked/scheduled samples
<TD-Linux> the decompiled output is very good considering that most of the code I've looked at so far has been handwritten asm
<cr1901_modern> whitequark: Remember all the good music from Sanic 3? This is what it sounds like when you convert it to OPL3:
<ej5> heh, i was going to use it for 6502, 8051, and 68k RE work
<ej5> also balrog do you have the ghidra localhost fix?
<TD-Linux> ej5, in replace address=* with address=
<TD-Linux> but this fix isn't important because the java remote debugger is off
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<cr1901_modern> 34 simultaneous users is a new record :D
<ZirconiumX> I definitely wouldn't complain
<ZirconiumX> Even if I don't yet know enough to contribute anything useful
<cr1901_modern> It's not like I've done anything all that useful in the past few months either lol
<TD-Linux> ej5, btw the code I re'd in the demo was here
<fseidel> oh wow, is this disas brand new?
<fseidel> I've been looking for a good IPL disassembly for a while
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<cr1901_modern> fseidel: Have you signed up/talked to the computer club yet?
<fseidel> I poked our IRC channel, waiting to hear back from people
<fseidel> apparently we have an original SB card in each of the 2 DOS machines we use to screen PC demos, but some individuals may be interested
<ej5> TD-Linux, thanks
<Wohali> cr1901_modern: up to you, usually a week or two is good, the more the merrier
* cr1901_modern nods
<cr1901_modern> Wohali: I was just worried- the more ppl there are, the more shipping has to be done (but maybe that's not an issue for you)
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<Wohali> if it hits >100 that'll be onerous
<cr1901_modern> ~25 people, 40 boards right now