ChanServ changed the topic of ##yamahasynths to: Channel dedicated to questions and discussion of Yamaha FM Synthesizer internals and corresponding REing. Discussion of synthesis methods similar to the Yamaha line of chips, Sound Blasters + clones, PCM chips like RF5C68, and CD theory of operation are also on-topic. Channel logs: https://freenode.irclog.whitequark.org/~h~yamahasynths
* cr1901_modern
reads scrollback
<cr1901_modern>
Native SCSI floppy is news to me
<cr1901_modern>
cool
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<gruetzkopf>
some CNC machine
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<andlabs>
cr1901_modern: oh late but
<andlabs>
that analysis of GEMS is flawed for two reasons: 1) GEMS came first 2) they likely just borrowed voices from some Yamaha keyboard
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<andlabs>
but if you want an authoritative answer the company that made GEMS was called Technopop and they made two Genesis games, Spider-Man (the early one, not by Acclaim) and Zero Tolerance
<protosphere>
cr1901_modern: I think it's the ROM..?
<protosphere>
Only because it's a user-replaceable thing and I know you could upgrade the ROM without a ton of fuss
<cr1901_modern>
Oh, right that makes a lot of sense... any possibility you could dump it?
<cr1901_modern>
out of curiosity
<protosphere>
I don't have any hardware for that, but I'll probably want to get something eventually..
<protosphere>
I think it's been dumped but Roland are a bit bleh about people distributing their ROMs
<protosphere>
(correct me if I'm wrong)
<cr1901_modern>
Can't wait till that attitude changes
<cr1901_modern>
I have a bunch of random ROMs I dumped. My favorite is prob the 8048 firmware to an MFM hard drive that I stupidly threw out; it didn't work, but now I most certainly can't RE it lmao.
<andlabs>
good night
<andlabs>
I have the sequential midi thing now btw; will comment tomorrow
<andlabs>
also orange ribbon cables in that mk2 o.o
<SceneCAT>
evening all. silly Question: does anyone in here know or where to find good step-by-step info, or perhaps a video about: Updating the Yamaha MU128 to v2 ?
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<cr1901_modern>
I would be happy to help if I knew what a MU128 is :(
<Sarayan>
cr1901: it's a yamaha expander
<Sarayan>
we emulate (badly) the mu80 and the mu100 in mame
<Sarayan>
mu80 I haven't started the synth code yet, the main cpu is doing weird things. mu100, I don't understand the envelope management, so it sounds not so good
<SceneCAT>
thnx, but i read that link but...hmm...
<andlabs>
I do own Cubase 7 now, at the very least
<andlabs>
but maybe one day I'll try one of the older versions of it
<andlabs>
or maybe even get lucky and find C64 Master Tracks
<SceneCAT>
an Atari STe with Cubase and a C64 next to it would be nice Midi setup i guess...hehe
<Sarayan>
French :-) And yes it's my site
<SceneCAT>
aha!
<SceneCAT>
i grabbed MU128v2 stuff from your site yesterday. since i found out about it having a v2 update. no clue how to update the MU128 tho. which i recently looted and got since last friday.
<Sarayan>
kervella being the maiden name of my wife's mother :-)
<Sarayan>
it's a general midi file, you play it at the mu
<Sarayan>
bunch of sysexes that are essentially "write 7 bytes at address xxx with a checksum"
<Sarayan>
of course I'd love if you dumped your current version first, but I guess you don't have an eprom reader
<SceneCAT>
friend of mine has that
<SceneCAT>
i'd like to know how i can get the MU128 shwo SySinfo/Version....IF that's even possible.
<Sarayan>
probably, there's usually a test mode
<SceneCAT>
test mode..hmm...
<SceneCAT>
accesible via 'util' ?
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<Sarayan>
no
<Sarayan>
one second, checksing the service manual
<cr1901_modern>
"dumped your current version" of what?
<Sarayan>
cr1901: of the pre-upgrade firmware
<Sarayan>
SceneCAT: switch on while pressing play and mute/solo
<SceneCAT>
'STAND BY/ONbutton while pressing the PLAY and MUTE/SOLObuttons at one time'
<andlabs>
and I just bought a TB-03 too, and this will be my last major purchase until after I fully plan out my vacation, which I still need ot do =p
<cr1901_modern>
what's a vacation?
<andlabs>
the thing I have to do if I don't want to stop earning vacation hours
<SceneCAT>
Test Mode v1.06 98 October 2001
<SceneCAT>
guess i could use a Guide on How to Dump MU128 ROM huh? which i'll take to a friend who has Eprom Reader stuff
<cr1901_modern>
Take the ROM out. Take to friend. Put in EPROM reader. Struggle w/ reader UI. Read ROM. Upload to Internet.
<SceneCAT>
oh wauw, if ROM is in a socket.....easy
<superctr>
if rom is DIP, desolder rom, solder socket, dump it, put it in socket
<superctr>
still easy
<superctr>
if it's SMD then it is a different story
<SceneCAT>
also replace a fesh Batt. while at it i guess... did that with the MU80 recently. coz that kept showing Low Batt. ...so the MU80 now has a batt Socket and fresh batt...
<SceneCAT>
oh nice, according to the Service Manual....the mu128 does have a batt. holder..yaay
<cr1901_modern>
Sarayan: Your desire to rewrite your tools notwithstanding, I have a q re: 68k and OPN REing... >>
<cr1901_modern>
How do you RE the ROM (microcode, sin LUT) connections without losing your mind? I know in the sin LUT case the actual numbers are known, but it's nice to verify
<cr1901_modern>
But it's 256 entries you have to do by hand ._.
<cr1901_modern>
And I imagine the 68k microcode ROM is even worse
<superctr>
image processing?
<superctr>
i think MAME has historically used "typing monkeys" for decapped ROM analysis, but i don't know if that was ever done for those chips
<cr1901_modern>
I should've been more specific
<cr1901_modern>
Yes those exist too
<cr1901_modern>
I meant after the ROM is vectorized, are there any shortcuts to extracting ROM contents other than "mentally apply 0, 1, 2..., 256 to the input and see how the circuit reacts, using the vectorization as a guide"?
<l_oliveira>
hi guys
<cr1901_modern>
superctr: FWIW, I can't actually do ROM RE well without vectorizing, I know plenty of ppl can but I'm not one of them
<SceneCAT>
o/ l_oliveira ....hehe
<cr1901_modern>
hello
<l_oliveira>
back when this chip analysis stuff was starting I remember one guy I know was working out some image analysis algorithm to extract bit patterns from rom regions, I think he somewhat had consistent results with that. Is that the vectorization part you're talking about?
<cr1901_modern>
No by vectorization I mean "open the die in Inkscape or image editor of choice and draw rectangles"
<l_oliveira>
the idea was kind of 'OCR' the ROM from high res chip images
<cr1901_modern>
I would not trust OCR personally, considering whenever I draw rectangles, I have to blow up the image well beyond the resolution of my monitor to infer details and edges
<ValleyBell>
With the correct offsets, my TG100 tool can convert all the demo tracks.
<ValleyBell>
The format didn't change between the TG100 and the MU128
<ValleyBell>
also: use "scp -p" in order to keep the date
<ValleyBell>
(I do this a lot.)
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<andlabs>
"Recomposer is a MIDI sequencer that was very popular in Japan, especially on the PC-9801 and X68000. Some games (like Granada on the X68000) even used raw RCP files in their games."
<andlabs>
oh good, that means this is what motoi sakuraba used
<andlabs>
so that's another thing to add to a yja saved search list I'm too lazy to create
<andlabs>
I wrote this tool to convert music from late MegaDrive Wolfteam games. (The ones with PCM support.) But it can also convert songs from X68000 Wolfteam games.
<andlabs>
I thought they all just used Cube but apparently that was just Granada
<andlabs>
also why did CRV change everything from Cube/Noriyuki Iwadare to Cube/random name here
<andlabs>
"Currently, only ZMD v1 files are supported. The games I used for testing were Cyber Block Metal Orange EX and Magical Block Carat on the X68000. ZMD v2 (Asuka 120% Burning Fest.) doesn't work correctly yet due to unknown commands. ZMD v3 is quite different from v1/v2, so that might be done by a separate tool." 1) Reverie detected 2) that ISN'T hitoshi sakimoto's sound driver?
<ValleyBell>
Asuka 120% is working in my local repo
<ValleyBell>
I just haven't pushed the changes yet
<ValleyBell>
also, Recomposer is what almost everyone used, apparently
<ValleyBell>
There are at least 3 custom sound formats that have traces of RCP somewhere
<ValleyBell>
like using the same note format or using the same command byte for MIDI controllers and pitch bends
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<ValleyBell>
MsDRV: RCP command bytes at 0xDD to 0xEE and same note format
<ValleyBell>
Wolfteam formats: sequence data is stored in "measures" that end with RCP-style 0xFD byte, also same note format
<ValleyBell>
(I thought there was another one, but I might misremember.)
<Lord_Nightmare>
andlabs: if you need to borrow an mt-32 i had several of them, one of which i sacrificed for the la32 decap, and the others aren't being used right now
<Lord_Nightmare>
I'm in the us
<ej5>
are MT-32s still fairly common?
<cr1901_modern>
There's a CM-32P module on Ebay w/ an undumped ROM. But only sells to UK
<cr1901_modern>
looking for someone to buy and dump it (w/ reimbursment AIUI)