ChanServ changed the topic of ##yamahasynths to: Channel dedicated to questions and discussion of Yamaha FM Synthesizer internals and corresponding REing. Discussion of synthesis methods similar to the Yamaha line of chips, Sound Blasters + clones, PCM chips like RF5C68, and CD theory of operation are also on-topic. Channel logs: https://freenode.irclog.whitequark.org/~h~yamahasynths
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<cr1901_modern> Sarayan: You managed to reverse the fricking 68k with them tho
<cr1901_modern> that's nothing to scoff at
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<m4t> anyone know of a reliable source of ym2612 and opl3?
<m4t> apparently the ebay seller i was going to use sells rebadged ic's or outright fakes (adeleparts2010)
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<Lord_Nightmare> m4t: the gacha chip dispenser in that store in japan has legit chips
<Lord_Nightmare> otherwise its a crapshoot
<m4t> :/
<Lord_Nightmare> you can get opl3 from old isa sound cards
<m4t> are there really piles of NOS chips?
<Lord_Nightmare> and ym2612 from damaged/destroyed genesis systems
<Lord_Nightmare> nope
<Lord_Nightmare> there's thousands possibly millions of pulled chips
<Lord_Nightmare> mostly remarked with later dates
<Lord_Nightmare> but actual NOS chips are extremely unlikely to exist
<m4t> meh why do they have to remark them
<m4t> i'd rather buy used genuine chips
<m4t> i mean, not advertised as new
<Lord_Nightmare> because later dates make them look "better"
<Lord_Nightmare> at least that's what the mostly-chinese chip sellers think
<Lord_Nightmare> for some god forsaken reason
<Lord_Nightmare> i'd gladly pay extra if they left the damn chips alone
<Lord_Nightmare> beyond straightening pins and cleaning up solder blobs
<m4t> yeah
<Lord_Nightmare> the chips from the gacha-balls in the store in japan i think are actually pulled from pcbs by the owner of that store
<Lord_Nightmare> or friends of his
<m4t> kinda far away
<Lord_Nightmare> from old damaged/destroyed pcbs
<Lord_Nightmare> i think he tests them but not sure
<m4t> you ever tried removing labels with acetone?
<m4t> to see if they were remarked
<Lord_Nightmare> trying to get a legit ym2413 on ebay is _FLAT_ _OUT_ _IMPOSSIBLE_
<Lord_Nightmare> i had to buy a yamaha pss-170 and desolder the chip to get a real one
<Lord_Nightmare> i don't recommend doing that, pss-170 units are not easy to find anymore
<Lord_Nightmare> i sacrificed the one i had for the greater good, since i also wanted the firmware to get dumped
<m4t> heh
<Lord_Nightmare> hd63B01Y0 mask hitachi 6301 mcu with internal ROM
<Lord_Nightmare> unknown how to dump those
<Lord_Nightmare> I'm hoping it uses visible implant ROM
<m4t> any debug interface e.g. jtag or uart?
<Lord_Nightmare> (offtopic: the hd63701Y0 is dumpable if the security bits are not set, but the mask HD6301Y0 is not. there likely IS some way to dump it, but we don't know it.)
<m4t> would need to gain control of the chip's execution somehow
<Lord_Nightmare> (another possible attack is glitching it, since the mode pins are exposed, so put it in internal-rom-plus-expanded mode, and stick a trojan ROM on the external bus, then clock and power glitch it to try to get the PC into the external address area
<m4t> sounds pretty hardcore
<Lord_Nightmare> (this attack works on the gameboy and most likely will work on the hd6301y0 too)
<Lord_Nightmare> yes, exactly: gain control of execution
<Lord_Nightmare> these chips long pre-date jtag or common debug interfaces
<Lord_Nightmare> some of the motorola mc68hc05 series had a debug interface using SPI serial (the one used on the playstation mechicon does)
<Lord_Nightmare> but this is older than those
<Lord_Nightmare> mc68hc05 i think was ~1987, while the hd6301y0 i think is 1985
<m4t> "Item was non-working fake, but refund issued quickly & without question." 1pcs YM2612 New and ORIGINAL YAMAHA Encapsulation DIP-24 (#170828627839)
<m4t> poop
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<cr1901_modern> I believe my YM2151s are legit, but I bought them in 2015
<cr1901_modern> not sure how much the situation has changed since then
<cr1901_modern> Broken Genesises aren't difficult to come buy
<cr1901_modern> tho*
<andlabs> yes and you will quickly find that a YM2151 will not work on a Genesis
* cr1901_modern coughs
<cr1901_modern> oops
<cr1901_modern> Those were in fact two separate thoughts I swear
<cr1901_modern> I do want a few YM2612s to play with, but I keep putting off buying broken Genesises to get them (and the 68k) from
<andlabs> =P
<andlabs> roland dep-5 effects processor came in
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<andlabs> still need to get a MIDI interface and an audio interface
<m4t> i have a couple that i intended to build a synth with, then bricked the bootloader on the debug chip of my kinetis board and got discouraged
<m4t> had a jtag going only to find out it was write protected
<m4t> about a yr ago i found someone locally with soldering skillz and they managed to put a TINY replacement chip i bought for it on
<m4t> then i programmed it via jtag, voila, good as new
<andlabs> I know I might write a VGM player for the FB-01
<m4t> im looking at the ym2612s now and they definitely are dirtier than you'd expect new chips to be
<m4t> gonna try to get some PCBs for this ordered first tho https://github.com/emukidid/SNES_APU_SD/tree/master/PCB/apu_mega_shield
<cr1901_modern> A USB MIDI interface to one of the synths is in my plans. In fact, I def have enough dev boards around to build one. Just inability to solder and... learning how the hell MIDI works is stopping me :P
<m4t> that's as far as i got...decoding notes and velocity coming from a keyboard into the kinetis thru a midi shield (arduino compatible)
<cr1901_modern> Pretty sure MIDI has messages for setting hardware parameters tho. I got a MIDI controller for my bday in May to futz around. Which I still haven't opened
<m4t> yep it sure does
<m4t> even uploading firmware and stuffs
<m4t> it was one of those bite off more than you can chew kinda things
<Foone> whitequark: what's the URL to your logging bot? does it log #discferret?
<cr1901_modern> No, and irclog.whitequark.org
<Foone> ahh.
<cr1901_modern> If it logged discferret you would see _whitelogger in there
<cr1901_modern> (or __whitelogger or ___whitelogger or ____whitelogger :P)
<whitequark> i can add #discferret but the topic would need to say that it's logged
<cr1901_modern> Foone: Sorry for all the DM spam, I forgot already that you were tagged in
<cr1901_modern> whitequark: philpem, the channel owner of discferret left for the night. Dunno when he'll be back. Oops
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<balrog> whitequark: philpem had his own logger
<balrog> but it's dead
<whitequark> okay
<whitequark> added
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<balrog> whitequark: I can update the topic
<balrog> done
<Sarayan> hi you two
<balrog> hello Sarayan
<Sarayan> still in hk wq?
<whitequark> yes unfortunately
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<cr1901_modern> andlabs: At least you and fseidel appreciate Star Cruiser. And yes, the intro is mindblowing on Genesis, though I'm not sure if it's a fully 3d software pipeline (MVP texture etc) or not
<andlabs> it is.
<andlabs> the game is 3D
<andlabs> it's not just that intro
<cr1901_modern> I know that, but e.g. Toy Story has 3d doom-like levels and if you watch the video on how it's done, it's not doing MVP/real time "pixel-addressable framebuffer to tile", but using tricks to completely avoid the need to convert to tile in the first place.
<cr1901_modern> Even SuperFX does "pixel-addressable framebuffer to tile" in hardware
<superctr_> the gameboy game X was originally supposed to be a NES->SNES game i think
<superctr_> it would probably have looked a bit like that too
<cr1901_modern> Oh right, I forgot about X
<cr1901_modern> that _is_ in fact a 3d game with a full 3d pipeline
<cr1901_modern> but also Dylan Cuthbert is magic and I have no idea how he did it (other than using log tables to turn all mults into adds)
<andlabs> probably some amount of Mode 7 assistance
<superctr_> not on the gameboy :p
<superctr_> though tbf even in the SNES demo the floor is entirely solid color, there is no need for mode 7
<Lord_Nightmare> elmar krieger's 'stunt race fx demo' for gameboy is also pretty impressive, i'm curious how that was done
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