ChanServ changed the topic of ##yamahasynths to: Channel dedicated to questions and discussion of Yamaha FM Synthesizer internals and corresponding REing. Discussion of synthesis methods similar to the Yamaha line of chips, Sound Blasters + clones, PCM chips like RF5C68, and CD theory of operation are also on-topic. Channel logs: https://freenode.irclog.whitequark.org/~h~yamahasynths
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<cr1901_modern>
Sarayan: You managed to reverse the fricking 68k with them tho
<cr1901_modern>
that's nothing to scoff at
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<m4t>
anyone know of a reliable source of ym2612 and opl3?
<m4t>
apparently the ebay seller i was going to use sells rebadged ic's or outright fakes (adeleparts2010)
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<Lord_Nightmare>
m4t: the gacha chip dispenser in that store in japan has legit chips
<Lord_Nightmare>
otherwise its a crapshoot
<m4t>
:/
<Lord_Nightmare>
you can get opl3 from old isa sound cards
<m4t>
are there really piles of NOS chips?
<Lord_Nightmare>
and ym2612 from damaged/destroyed genesis systems
<Lord_Nightmare>
nope
<Lord_Nightmare>
there's thousands possibly millions of pulled chips
<Lord_Nightmare>
mostly remarked with later dates
<Lord_Nightmare>
but actual NOS chips are extremely unlikely to exist
<m4t>
meh why do they have to remark them
<m4t>
i'd rather buy used genuine chips
<m4t>
i mean, not advertised as new
<Lord_Nightmare>
because later dates make them look "better"
<Lord_Nightmare>
at least that's what the mostly-chinese chip sellers think
<Lord_Nightmare>
for some god forsaken reason
<Lord_Nightmare>
i'd gladly pay extra if they left the damn chips alone
<Lord_Nightmare>
beyond straightening pins and cleaning up solder blobs
<m4t>
yeah
<Lord_Nightmare>
the chips from the gacha-balls in the store in japan i think are actually pulled from pcbs by the owner of that store
<Lord_Nightmare>
or friends of his
<m4t>
kinda far away
<Lord_Nightmare>
from old damaged/destroyed pcbs
<Lord_Nightmare>
i think he tests them but not sure
<m4t>
you ever tried removing labels with acetone?
<m4t>
to see if they were remarked
<Lord_Nightmare>
trying to get a legit ym2413 on ebay is _FLAT_ _OUT_ _IMPOSSIBLE_
<Lord_Nightmare>
i had to buy a yamaha pss-170 and desolder the chip to get a real one
<Lord_Nightmare>
i don't recommend doing that, pss-170 units are not easy to find anymore
<Lord_Nightmare>
i sacrificed the one i had for the greater good, since i also wanted the firmware to get dumped
<m4t>
heh
<Lord_Nightmare>
hd63B01Y0 mask hitachi 6301 mcu with internal ROM
<Lord_Nightmare>
unknown how to dump those
<Lord_Nightmare>
I'm hoping it uses visible implant ROM
<m4t>
any debug interface e.g. jtag or uart?
<Lord_Nightmare>
(offtopic: the hd63701Y0 is dumpable if the security bits are not set, but the mask HD6301Y0 is not. there likely IS some way to dump it, but we don't know it.)
<m4t>
would need to gain control of the chip's execution somehow
<Lord_Nightmare>
(another possible attack is glitching it, since the mode pins are exposed, so put it in internal-rom-plus-expanded mode, and stick a trojan ROM on the external bus, then clock and power glitch it to try to get the PC into the external address area
<m4t>
sounds pretty hardcore
<Lord_Nightmare>
(this attack works on the gameboy and most likely will work on the hd6301y0 too)
<Lord_Nightmare>
yes, exactly: gain control of execution
<Lord_Nightmare>
these chips long pre-date jtag or common debug interfaces
<Lord_Nightmare>
some of the motorola mc68hc05 series had a debug interface using SPI serial (the one used on the playstation mechicon does)
<Lord_Nightmare>
but this is older than those
<Lord_Nightmare>
mc68hc05 i think was ~1987, while the hd6301y0 i think is 1985
<m4t>
"Item was non-working fake, but refund issued quickly & without question." 1pcs YM2612 New and ORIGINAL YAMAHA Encapsulation DIP-24 (#170828627839)
<m4t>
poop
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<cr1901_modern>
I believe my YM2151s are legit, but I bought them in 2015
<cr1901_modern>
not sure how much the situation has changed since then
<cr1901_modern>
Broken Genesises aren't difficult to come buy
<cr1901_modern>
tho*
<andlabs>
yes and you will quickly find that a YM2151 will not work on a Genesis
* cr1901_modern
coughs
<cr1901_modern>
oops
<cr1901_modern>
Those were in fact two separate thoughts I swear
<cr1901_modern>
I do want a few YM2612s to play with, but I keep putting off buying broken Genesises to get them (and the 68k) from
<andlabs>
=P
<andlabs>
roland dep-5 effects processor came in
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<andlabs>
still need to get a MIDI interface and an audio interface
<m4t>
i have a couple that i intended to build a synth with, then bricked the bootloader on the debug chip of my kinetis board and got discouraged
<m4t>
had a jtag going only to find out it was write protected
<m4t>
about a yr ago i found someone locally with soldering skillz and they managed to put a TINY replacement chip i bought for it on
<m4t>
then i programmed it via jtag, voila, good as new
<andlabs>
I know I might write a VGM player for the FB-01
<m4t>
im looking at the ym2612s now and they definitely are dirtier than you'd expect new chips to be
<cr1901_modern>
A USB MIDI interface to one of the synths is in my plans. In fact, I def have enough dev boards around to build one. Just inability to solder and... learning how the hell MIDI works is stopping me :P
<m4t>
that's as far as i got...decoding notes and velocity coming from a keyboard into the kinetis thru a midi shield (arduino compatible)
<cr1901_modern>
Pretty sure MIDI has messages for setting hardware parameters tho. I got a MIDI controller for my bday in May to futz around. Which I still haven't opened
<m4t>
yep it sure does
<m4t>
even uploading firmware and stuffs
<m4t>
it was one of those bite off more than you can chew kinda things
<Foone>
whitequark: what's the URL to your logging bot? does it log #discferret?
<cr1901_modern>
No, and irclog.whitequark.org
<Foone>
ahh.
<cr1901_modern>
If it logged discferret you would see _whitelogger in there
<cr1901_modern>
(or __whitelogger or ___whitelogger or ____whitelogger :P)
<whitequark>
i can add #discferret but the topic would need to say that it's logged
<cr1901_modern>
Foone: Sorry for all the DM spam, I forgot already that you were tagged in
<cr1901_modern>
whitequark: philpem, the channel owner of discferret left for the night. Dunno when he'll be back. Oops
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<balrog>
whitequark: philpem had his own logger
<balrog>
but it's dead
<whitequark>
okay
<whitequark>
added
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<balrog>
whitequark: I can update the topic
<balrog>
done
<Sarayan>
hi you two
<balrog>
hello Sarayan
<Sarayan>
still in hk wq?
<whitequark>
yes unfortunately
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<cr1901_modern>
andlabs: At least you and fseidel appreciate Star Cruiser. And yes, the intro is mindblowing on Genesis, though I'm not sure if it's a fully 3d software pipeline (MVP texture etc) or not
<andlabs>
it is.
<andlabs>
the game is 3D
<andlabs>
it's not just that intro
<cr1901_modern>
I know that, but e.g. Toy Story has 3d doom-like levels and if you watch the video on how it's done, it's not doing MVP/real time "pixel-addressable framebuffer to tile", but using tricks to completely avoid the need to convert to tile in the first place.
<cr1901_modern>
Even SuperFX does "pixel-addressable framebuffer to tile" in hardware
<superctr_>
the gameboy game X was originally supposed to be a NES->SNES game i think
<superctr_>
it would probably have looked a bit like that too