<bart416>
Cause that's what the guy who ruined my old fpga board is paying me
<bart416>
lol
<azonenberg>
Definitely go for the spartan-6
<azonenberg>
and lol, how did he do that
<bart416>
Good question
<bart416>
He borrowed it for a few weeks and got a text earlier today that he'll pay me 150 euro for it cause he ruined it lol
<bart416>
won't the spartan 3e allow bigger logic circuits though?
<bart416>
That particular 6 has less equivalent logic cells :(
<azonenberg>
hmm, the lx16 vs the 3e 1200 *looks up*
<bart416>
I'm a bit worried about it
<bart416>
Cause I'm looking at building another oscilloscope
<bart416>
This time with 4 8 bit 100 MSa/s FPGAs to achieve 300-400 MSa/s
<azonenberg>
well, the lx16 is def better than the 500k cell s3e
<azonenberg>
Looks like the lx16 is, gate wise, about equivalent to ~900k cells of 3e
<azonenberg>
Except the lx16 has more block ram than even the 1200 3e and probably more mults too
<azonenberg>
so it basically becomes a tradeoff, would you rather have a few more slow cells in the 3e, or more block ram, more mults, and faster cells in the 6
<azonenberg>
i'd go for the 6 unless i was area limited
<azonenberg>
s3 is really pretty much obsolete
<B0101>
hi azonenberg
<azonenberg>
hi
<B0101>
well, what do I look for when I choose a FPGA board?
<azonenberg>
Depends on what you're trying to do and how much budget you have :p
<B0101>
Well, I am want to build a CPU on a FPGA (I am looking for fast speed and more memory for cache)
<azonenberg>
A cpu
<azonenberg>
that's a pretty broad term
<azonenberg>
i've seen 4-bit toy cpus in 800 gate CPLDs
<azonenberg>
and full 32 bit designs on big fpgas
<azonenberg>
all the way up to full ARM cores
<azonenberg>
so what kind of cpu do you want? Not necessarily architecture, more along the lines of speed/capabilities
<azonenberg>
i designed an 8-bit 3-stage pipelined core that ran at 85 MHz on a 50k gate spartan-3a
<azonenberg>
with room to spare
<B0101>
as I said, I want a CPU with a fast speed, and more cache memory
<azonenberg>
Define fast
<azonenberg>
50 mhz? 500?
<B0101>
around 700MHZ to 1 GHZ
<azonenberg>
Good luck lol
<azonenberg>
FPGAs are meant for parallelism, not speed
<azonenberg>
you'd need one of the ridiculously expensive ones for that
<azonenberg>
like, five figurep rice tag
<azonenberg>
if its even possible
<azonenberg>
Typical clock rates for entry-level FPGA designs are O(100 MHz)
<bart416>
The trick with a FPGA is that you don't have to work in a synchronous fashion
<B0101>
ok
<bart416>
But essentially you're limited by your amount of LUTs
<azonenberg>
hi ashaw
<ashaw>
hey azonenberg
<ashaw>
so you are doing electron beam lithography
<ashaw>
?
<azonenberg>
ashaw: not e-beam
<azonenberg>
Optical projection
<ashaw>
how are you making the mask?
<azonenberg>
Laser direct-write with a bluray diode is on the longer term todo list
<azonenberg>
Right now I print my masks out at 200um design rules (10x actual size) on laser printer transparency
<azonenberg>
then reduce optically with a microscope objective and project onto the die
<azonenberg>
align
<azonenberg>
and expose
<azonenberg>
You mean, design?
<ashaw>
no
<ashaw>
process
<azonenberg>
I make the GDS in glade or klayout, then export to dxf and print appropriately scaled
<ashaw>
cool
<azonenberg>
Right now my lambda is 4.233...  microns
<azonenberg>
which is 1/600 inch (resolution of my printer) divided down further by my 10x objective
<ashaw>
yay
<azonenberg>
design rule is five lambda min feature size
<ashaw>
I have been looking at making a LDI machine
<ashaw>
with 1um resolution
<azonenberg>
i'm working on shrinking down 4x further, to 1.058um lambda and the same 5 lambda design rule, using a 40x reduction
<azonenberg>
been having yield issues
<azonenberg>
LDI = ?
<azonenberg>
laser direct write?
<ashaw>
Laser direct imaging
<azonenberg>
Ah
<azonenberg>
Yeah, thats on my todo list as well, if you'd like to collaborate let me know
<azonenberg>
my idea was to use it for contact masks
<ashaw>
cool
<ashaw>
My idea is to directly print onto the wafer
<azonenberg>
I considered that
<azonenberg>
the problem is alignment if you are doing >1 mask level
<ashaw>
but?
<azonenberg>
and direct writ eis slow
<ashaw>
yeah
<azonenberg>
so i figure i'll do what the real fabs do except laser instead of ebeam for making the mask
<azonenberg>
The other thing i need to do is build myself a stepper/scanner
<ashaw>
there is a way around doing i pixel at a time
<azonenberg>
put servos on the stage so i can move the field around the die/wafer
<ashaw>
I want to point the laser head at a DLP picoprojector and reduce
<ashaw>
doing structured imagin
<azonenberg>
very interesting
<ashaw>
g
<ashaw>
yeah you print a line about 1000 pixels long
<ashaw>
at once
<ashaw>
I've been workign at driving the projector from an FPGA
<ashaw>
and modifying the potics
<azonenberg>
very nice
<azonenberg>
if you get it working can i use you as a mask shop? ;)
<ashaw>
mabe, I am in australia though
<azonenberg>
Cheaper than photronics :p
<azonenberg>
And i want to build one of my own in the longer term
<azonenberg>
do you plan to share designs?
<ashaw>
of course
<ashaw>
also it is going to be designed with a removable reducer
<ashaw>
so you can also use it to image PCBs
<azonenberg>
very interesting
<azonenberg>
Are you using a prebuilt projector and sending hdmi out from the fpga?
<ashaw>
no
<azonenberg>
and what drives the fpga - a GDS?
<azonenberg>
gerber?
<azonenberg>
bitmap?
<ashaw>
at the moment procedurally generated images
<azonenberg>
ok
<ashaw>
on the FPGA
<azonenberg>
which fpga btw?
<ashaw>
a virtex 6 demo board.
<azonenberg>
shiny
<ashaw>
greatly underutalised
<ashaw>
yeah
<azonenberg>
is using an xc6slx45 atm
<ashaw>
I have a couple other projects
<azonenberg>
virtexes are too expensive
<ashaw>
one that needs the space
<azonenberg>
I see
<azonenberg>
you can get spartans that big, most likely
<azonenberg>
Just not as fast
<ashaw>
240K gate?
<azonenberg>
240k cell? oh
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
spartan6 maxes out at 150 i think
<ashaw>
yeah
<azonenberg>
what are you building that big?
<ashaw>
that is the standard dev size
<ashaw>
an Out-Of Order, dual issue MMIX CPU
<azonenberg>
out of order execution? Oh joy lol
<ashaw>
yeah
<ashaw>
I think cool.
<azonenberg>
And superscalar
<ashaw>
yep
<azonenberg>
I'm having enough trouble debugging pipeline glitches on my single-issue in-order mips1 core lol
<azonenberg>
good luck
<azonenberg>
Of course i havent worked on it in a while
<azonenberg>
been too busy with my current project, a JPEG encoder
<ashaw>
i have been working on this for 2 yes
<ashaw>
cool
<azonenberg>
100 MHZ at one cycle per pixel
<azonenberg>
on s6 -2 speed
<ashaw>
fun!!!
<azonenberg>
seems to work in simulation, i'm hookign up the final glue for a bare-metal test now
<azonenberg>
block ram for source data, serial port printing out encoded results, etc
<ashaw>
My goal is to get a 1um design rule home fab process done, with a cost of less than $20 000
<azonenberg>
I would love that, i'm limited to 20 right now by my optics
<azonenberg>
the 40x objective on my scope doesnt quite focus right
<azonenberg>
and immersion litho should hit 1um but i'm having trouble with that too
<azonenberg>
LDI would help that greatly
<azonenberg>
i could use the scope to align but use a contact mask for the actual exposure
<azonenberg>
imagines friend coming over in 10 years and seeing an 8-inch karl suss mask aligner in the living room
<azonenberg>
the cardboard thing in the middle is the spatter shield
<azonenberg>
then a 2x4 frame, an electric drill
<ashaw>
it is 1.40 am here
<azonenberg>
and a sanding wheel with some masking tape on it
<azonenberg>
i see, where you at?
<azonenberg>
its ten in the morning
<ashaw>
sydney
<ashaw>
australia
<azonenberg>
that would do it
<azonenberg>
Have you used subversion?
<ashaw>
yeah
<ashaw>
but prefer mecurial
<ashaw>
or git
<ashaw>
but not for any of this stuff.
<ashaw>
all on paper
<azonenberg>
well the project is on svn now, switching to git in the longer term is a possibility but svn was what most of the folks working on it preferred
<azonenberg>
send me your google code email address  and i'll add you to the project
<ashaw>
alexis.shaw@gmail.com
<azonenberg>
Added
<ashaw>
cool
<ashaw>
I think that a simple atom beam setup can be made
<azonenberg>
I want a SEM/FIB at some point
<azonenberg>
thats further out
<azonenberg>
in case you havent guessed my dream home includes a class 1000 cleanroom :p
<ashaw>
mine an ISO class 3 room
<azonenberg>
whats that in the powers-of-ten scale?
<azonenberg>
100?
<ashaw>
1
<azonenberg>
oh, nice
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
My school has a class 100
<azonenberg>
but i dont think i need that good for 1um design rules on prototype scale fab
<azonenberg>
gotta keep costs down :p
<ashaw>
my final goal is to have a 350nm process at home
<azonenberg>
Mine too :)
<azonenberg>
Good to see somebody who actually is interested in doing lab work, a lot of the folks here are bouncing off ideas but not really doing much
<azonenberg>
the main people doing hands-on work are me, B0101, and swkhan
<ashaw>
I just do not have a garrage atm
<azonenberg>
swkhan is mostly doign thin film work at nasa ames, not as much microfab
<ashaw>
I am at college
<azonenberg>
dorm? small apartment?
<azonenberg>
is a grad student
<ashaw>
single room
<azonenberg>
oh
<azonenberg>
i'm sharing a large apartment with four undergrads
<azonenberg>
nice big common/living room
<azonenberg>
that's turned into a pretty well equipped lab
<azonenberg>
The last tenants, the landlord tells me, had a stripper pole in that corner
<azonenberg>
right about in the same spot i have a 4-inch wafer probing station
<azonenberg>
lol
<ashaw>
I am thinking of renting some industrial spacew
<ashaw>
as soon as I have got my set of test gear
<azonenberg>
If you can afford it, i highly recommend it
<azonenberg>
will help keep neighbors off your back
<ashaw>
yeah
<CIA-67>
homecmos r144 | wiki/CurrentStatus.wiki | Edited wiki page CurrentStatus through web user interface.
<azonenberg>
They didnt even use any argon, pure nitrogren gave a better mix
<azonenberg>
"Silicon nitride films (from 500 to 7500Ã… in thickness) have been deposited on silicon and silicon dioxide by reactive sputtering of a silicon cathode in a N2 glow discharge"
<azonenberg>
"Argon and nitrogen gas mixtures resulted in excess silicon incorporation in the deposited nitride films. "
<azonenberg>
so you use pure N2 for stoichometric nitride and add argon if you want to be Si rich
<azonenberg>
am i missing something here? if so, please tell me
<ashaw>
Oh, cool
<ashaw>
so you sputter rather than CVD the Si3N4
<azonenberg>
Yes, thats the whole point
<azonenberg>
no need for silanes or other nasty gases
<azonenberg>
just a little N2 and optionally some argon
<azonenberg>
You can also sputter SiO2 but i forget if its usually a SiO2 target or reactive of Si + O2
<azonenberg>
Evaporation is preferred as no gases are required at all
<azonenberg>
For materials we cant evaporate, or need step coverage, sputter
<azonenberg>
But CVD is top of the no-no list
<azonenberg>
with spin coating obviously as the first choice
<ashaw>
no, there is one worse
<ashaw>
epitaxey
<azonenberg>
Lol
<azonenberg>
When swkhan comes back let her vent for a while
<azonenberg>
she's been battling ALD of ZnO for weeks now
<ashaw>
ald?
<azonenberg>
atomic layer deposition
<ashaw>
ah
<azonenberg>
its a form of epitaxial CVD
<azonenberg>
apply one precursor, form a monolayer on your targert
<azonenberg>
purge chamber
<azonenberg>
apply other precursor, let it react, purge
<azonenberg>
repeat
<ashaw>
ouch
<ashaw>
why?
<azonenberg>
it lets you control thickness extremely accurately, and if you are on the right substrate produce a monocrystalline epitaxial film
<azonenberg>
But its also a pain to get working apparently lol
<ashaw>
I mean why does whe want to do it?
<azonenberg>
No idea, its apparently part of a larger project at the lab
<azonenberg>
which i know very little about
<ashaw>
Oh cool.
<ashaw>
It does look like if we can get CMP worked out, It will make a lot of other things easier
<azonenberg>
Agreed
<azonenberg>
Including polishing of cross section samples
<azonenberg>
One problem i'm having for cross sections is that my photoresist is soluble in some component of ted pella diamond paste lol
<azonenberg>
i dont know what it is, the msds says "proprietary nonhazardous water-based formula"
<azonenberg>
But it takes my resist right off
<azonenberg>
fast enouhg that there is definitely chemical action as well as mechanical going on
<azonenberg>
i wanted to measure undercut in a TEM image
<ashaw>
why not sputter over the mask
<azonenberg>
I have a couple of ideas
<azonenberg>
The point is, that was one of several problems i had polishing
<azonenberg>
another is contamination
<azonenberg>
Large polishing compound gets stuck on the surface
<azonenberg>
and causes deep scratches when i try a fine polish
<azonenberg>
i think i need to sonicate to get it off
<ashaw>
what is your finest polish?
<azonenberg>
60nm colloidal silica is the smallest
<azonenberg>
next up is 250, 500nm diamond
<ashaw>
yeah, that is probably too big
<ashaw>
need finer
<azonenberg>
Too big?
<azonenberg>
For what
<azonenberg>
You can always get smaller CMP slurry
<azonenberg>
bear in midn these are spherical particles too
<azonenberg>
So 20nm will not give you a 20nm surface finish, it'll go smaller
<ashaw>
oh yeah.
<ashaw>
forgot.
<azonenberg>
the diamond is rough, i think
<azonenberg>
might be crystalline chunks
<ashaw>
colloids can be rought too
<azonenberg>
the silica is round in most cases specificlaly though
<azonenberg>
its made for that purpose
<berndj>
azonenberg, i'm really glad you guys got your vacuum chamber back (albeit sans chemicals), but also bummed about both the primary and secondary miscarriages of justice
<berndj>
by secondary i mean the "obstruction of justice" thing
<azonenberg>
It was pretty ridiculous
<azonenberg>
Especially taking a whole year
<azonenberg>
the raid was last november
<azonenberg>
It drove him out of school, he had to take a full time job to pay legal fees
<azonenberg>
all this because the local cops wanted to save face rather than admitting "sorry, we misunderstood"
<berndj>
malicious prosecution would be exactly right!
<azonenberg>
Yeah, but the deal prevents him from suing
<berndj>
a DEAL?
<azonenberg>
the alternative would have been going to trial
<berndj>
oh that.  yes, that's another major flaw with justice systems
<azonenberg>
which would have been an acceptable risk in normal cases
<azonenberg>
But one in which it's you vs a police department that doesnt want to screw up publicly...
<azonenberg>
Doesnt usually go well for the defendant
<berndj>
so the deal was, "here, we'll convict you of obstruction of justice, and in return you promise not to sue us"
<azonenberg>
Yeah
<berndj>
pfft
<azonenberg>
well, more precisely by accepting the deal its considered a conviction so he loses the right to sue
<berndj>
i imagine you guys just want it all to be over
<azonenberg>
its the equivalent of a guilty plea
<berndj>
but i'd be cooking up revenge fantasies getting hold of ACLU etc
<berndj>
that's just so broken!
<azonenberg>
It is
<azonenberg>
I've been busy over the last year trying to make sure nobody will ever be able to do the same to me
<azonenberg>
reading up on the fire code, zoning ordnances
<azonenberg>
hazmat disposal policies
<azonenberg>
msds book and documented lab policy in a visible place
<azonenberg>
running by the book even more than some labs on capmus
<azonenberg>
campus*
<berndj>
good thing obstruction of justice isn't a criminal offence though - i'm surprised though, did i get that right?
<azonenberg>
Not exactly
<azonenberg>
Obstruction is a misdemeanor
<azonenberg>
he pled to *attempted* obstruction
<berndj>
but not a felony?
<azonenberg>
which is some kind of hypothetical offense that is not actually illegal
<berndj>
omg, it's even weirder than i thought
<azonenberg>
so basically he has no crimes on his record but by virtue of being a paper conviction (and paying a token fine to drive the point home)
<azonenberg>
he cant sue
<azonenberg>
And he cant come out and say he was innocent afterwards
<azonenberg>
Since i was not a defendant, i can :P
<berndj>
spam your senator or something!
<azonenberg>
he tried, no response
<azonenberg>
he was being branded a terrorist in the media
<azonenberg>
ended up changing his name and moving halfway across the country
<berndj>
omglolwtf
<azonenberg>
i am not kidding
<azonenberg>
they basically did their best to ruin his life so they wouldnt have to admit they made a mistake
<berndj>
i keep tellin ya, you're in the wrong country
<ashaw>
berndj, where are you?
<berndj>
south africa
<azonenberg>
you suggest we move to a police state like the UK or a communist dictatorship like NK?
<azonenberg>
It's not a good situation but i think its not quite as bad
<berndj>
no, i suggest you move to a quasi third-world country
<azonenberg>
Lol
<azonenberg>
If i did that i'd probably end up designing weaponry for some warlord
<berndj>
we're actually more like a quantum superposition of a first and third world country
<azonenberg>
not doing useful research
<ashaw>
yeah I get that
<berndj>
with coefficients 0.1 and 0.9, respectively
<ashaw>
oh and btw, we beat you in the tri nations
<berndj>
yeah, we always choke and leave thing up to the tailenders
<ashaw>
right.....
<berndj>
doesn't follow sport, hence doesn't care
<azonenberg>
lol
<ashaw>
doesn't either, just wanted to try to make conversation
<berndj>
the dirty little secret most south africans don't know is that australia regularly nukes us in rugby, one of our first-tier sports, whereas in australia i gather it's just something you play if no other team picks you
<berndj>
really quite a minority sport.  could be wrong of course
<ashaw>
yeah union is minority
<ashaw>
but still big enough
<berndj>
which end are you? west? east?
<azonenberg>
enough about sports :p
<ashaw>
east
<ashaw>
sydney
<berndj>
ashaw, is it easy(ish) to get high-tech supplies in sydney?
<ashaw>
of what kind?
<berndj>
Si wafers, for argument's sake. or semi devices that aren't a 2N3055
<ashaw>
I can get a lot of ICs and stuff, element14 has an office here.
<ashaw>
but silicon wafers not so much
<ashaw>
and like everyone PCBs go to china
<berndj>
i can get common stuff here, but it seems like anything more than that, and it's order from overseas time
<berndj>
we do still have pcb houses though.  probably even 4-layer
<ashaw>
we have them here, but sooo expensive
<berndj>
azonenberg, what sort of chemicals did you guys not get back?
<azonenberg>
berndj: common solvents, drain cleaner (why?), fluorescent dye, and some concentrated HNO3
<ashaw>
so like stuff you can buy at a hardware store
<azonenberg>
Yes
<azonenberg>
the hno3 was ACS grade
<ashaw>
yeah
<azonenberg>
But stuff like acetone and denatured alcohol
<ashaw>
so a hardware store and a drug store
<azonenberg>
Yep
<azonenberg>
They considered it dangerous
<berndj>
claim that the chemicals were yours and sue them for that
<azonenberg>
They claimed that they were destroyed "because they were dangerous"
<berndj>
lol. are these people even human?
<ashaw>
have you got propper chamical storage atm?
<azonenberg>
His response to the judge on hearing that was "Better send hazmat over to the hardware store. I heard they're stockpiling the stuff"
<azonenberg>
ashaw: Relatively, yes
<ashaw>
up to code?
<azonenberg>
For home use, certainly
<ashaw>
so double containered
<azonenberg>
solvents / acids / flammables separated by significant distance
<ashaw>
so double containered
<azonenberg>
I have trays under most
<azonenberg>
working on getting everything
<berndj>
waitaminute... this all got as far as being in front of a judge, who didn't then dismiss the case??
<ashaw>
trays made of?
<azonenberg>
ashaw: glass
<ashaw>
aaah
<azonenberg>
berndj: yes
<azonenberg>
he did not
<berndj>
jeepers!
<berndj>
impeach!
<azonenberg>
he dismissed some charges but not all
<ashaw>
which ones were not dismissed?
<azonenberg>
the obstruction, which was related to him refusing to leave his home when ordered to do so by an officer who had entered it illegally (without a warrant) and with no obvious reason
<ashaw>
right
<ashaw>
what were they affraid of?
<azonenberg>
Why were they there? why did they ask him to leave?
<berndj>
ashaw, i was in aus a few times and i got the impression something like this could easily happen in aus too.  comment?
<azonenberg>
why didnt they drop charges whe nthey realized he was harmless?
<berndj>
seemed like a pretty police and rules-centric country
<ashaw>
yeah, I'm trying to set up a lab here.
<ashaw>
but getting arround the regs is hard
<azonenberg>
ashaw: re trays, i know i am not up to osha codes because i dont have an eyewash (though i do have a shower in the bathroom a 10 sec run away
<ashaw>
will have to rent commercial spave
<azonenberg>
But its not a workplace
<azonenberg>
so osha doesnt have jurisdiction
<azonenberg>
and secondary containment, while advisable, is not required for private homes
<ashaw>
OH&S?
<azonenberg>
I have it on most of the stuff
<azonenberg>
not the large cans of hardware store solvents
<berndj>
i hope that besides lab managers, you also count lawyers among your friends, azonenberg !
<azonenberg>
when they run out i'll be replacing them with much smaller volumes of higher purity
<ashaw>
and what about disposal?
<ashaw>
how are you dealing with that?
<azonenberg>
ashaw: stored in properly labeled containers and then disposed of depending on the material
<ashaw>
cool
<azonenberg>
Acid and base waste with no toxic stuff like heavy metals is neutralized to pH 7 +/- 0.5
<azonenberg>
diluted 10:1 with water and drain disposed
<ashaw>
I would prefer that PTFE trays were used instead of glass
<azonenberg>
everything else is taken to an official dipsosal site
<ashaw>
yeah
<azonenberg>
and i dont have ptft atm but i will be getting it for the HF
<ashaw>
all really complicated and annoying.
<azonenberg>
bear in mind that my local grocery store stores the hf on metal shelving
<ashaw>
At least they did not see the analytic glass and say he was running a drug lab
<azonenberg>
ashaw: they tried
<azonenberg>
tested samples of everythign he had
<azonenberg>
but he was smart enough to not keep any drug precursors around
<azonenberg>
not even in tiny amounts
<azonenberg>
so they had no basis
<azonenberg>
i do the same here
<ashaw>
yeah
<ashaw>
I mean it is so hard to have an analytic chemistry lab without being able to do that stuff
<azonenberg>
Yeah
<azonenberg>
The other thing in my favor is that my landlord is a retired police chief
<ashaw>
and when you get to precursers of percursers
<azonenberg>
Who knows full well what i am doing
<azonenberg>
and is completely fine with it
<ashaw>
Yeah, political help
<azonenberg>
i even showed him the MSDS book a few times to be 100% up front and make it clear i was hiding nothing
<azonenberg>
One of his problems is that he was less open about what he was doing
<ashaw>
right
<azonenberg>
i want it to be clear from the start i have nothing to hide
<berndj>
omg i have atoms in my house! i can make drugs!
<azonenberg>
which a drug lab would never do
<ashaw>
it is a bit more than that berndj
<ashaw>
he would have volumetric glassware
<ashaw>
and analytic balances
<cheater>
who are you guys talking about
<azonenberg>
cheater: friend of mine who got himself raided last year
<azonenberg>
because the neighbor saw vacuum gear and called the police on him
<cheater>
was he actually making any drugs
<azonenberg>
cheater: no, he was doing semiconductor research lol
<azonenberg>
They never actually officially claimed they thought he was a drug lab as they had no evidence
<berndj>
so what DID they claim???
<azonenberg>
first, that his 100ml of HNO3 was a life-threatening danger to everyone on the block :p
<cheater>
was it?
<azonenberg>
then that it could have reacted badly with the solvents stored 20 feet away
<azonenberg>
then finally started grasping at straws
<azonenberg>
and said that when the officer told him to leave the buliding he hadnt done so
<berndj>
did they propose an actual reaction that could have led to, say, HCN?
<azonenberg>
nope
<azonenberg>
they alleged they could have "produced an exothermic reaction"
<ashaw>
what like aluminium
<ashaw>
that his windows were made of
<berndj>
they should have just convicted him of BEING an exothermic reaction
<ashaw>
and rust
<azonenberg>
the theory was that if the hno3, drain cleaner (poor quality h2so4) and acetone had mixed
<azonenberg>
it had maybe a 10% chance of causing a small fire
<azonenberg>
Stored some distance apart, separate shelves, etc
<ashaw>
rught???
<azonenberg>
when that claim fell apart they finally reduced their claims to the obstruction
<azonenberg>
which he couldnt defend against
<cheater>
lol, damn cops.
<ashaw>
and the risk that the iso got tooo hot was not higher
<azonenberg>
it was his word against the officer
<ashaw>
do yuo have video cameras up arround your house?
<azonenberg>
ashaw: i have a bunch of webcams but nothign deployed atm
<azonenberg>
you suggest i stream any such encounter to a secure offsite location?
<ashaw>
yep.
<cheater>
yes
<azonenberg>
That was my plan as well actually
<cheater>
but make sure to have a lot of notification
<ashaw>
I have a server in luxemburg where I could keep a 2 loop if you want
<cheater>
plaques that inform about cameras
<azonenberg>
i have my own offsite backups etc
<cheater>
otherwise in some places the recording might be illegal
<berndj>
cheater, do you need that though if it's on your own premises?
<azonenberg>
And in NY its legal given the consent of one party
<azonenberg>
Me
<cheater>
you do
<cheater>
in germany you do, at least
<berndj>
not like he'd be filming the street
<cheater>
since i moved here i was surprised by a few laws
<cheater>
doesn't matter berndj
<berndj>
yeah but germany is a bit meschugge sometimes :)
<cheater>
law is law
<cheater>
yes
<ashaw>
Sighneage is good though
<berndj>
is german
<cheater>
so check with your local laws
<cheater>
you mean signage?
<ashaw>
"warning CCTV in use"
<cheater>
yes
<berndj>
good idea either way, i agree
<cheater>
resolves any ambiguous legal situation
<ashaw>
Only has to be a couple stickers on windows
<berndj>
could even prevent overzealous cops from going too far in the first place - might make them think a bit harder about what they do
<ashaw>
yeah
<berndj>
but watch out for evidenciary rules
<berndj>
germany for example might not permit footage stored in another country!
<berndj>
(just guessing)
<azonenberg>
i have in-country servers that are pretty hard to find
<ashaw>
keep a buffer on site in case they pull the phone line
<azonenberg>
ashaw: I do not expect a full on response like that, we arent talkign a hostage situation here
<ashaw>
and have a backup mobile connection
<ashaw>
you never know with the USA
<ashaw>
really
<azonenberg>
For that matter, now that its been a year since his raid i think the odds of anyone bothering me are low
<berndj>
just reading about all this, i have to conclude that america is fscked
<cheater>
it is
<berndj>
it is, for all kinds of reasons, but this is another one that mainstream media don't cover
<berndj>
i spy with my little eye a fixed rubik cube in azonenberg's lab
<berndj>
can't say i'm surprised
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
Was never actually that good at them
<berndj>
i geeked out on them when i was a kid
<berndj>
used to be able to do it semi-consistently <60s
<berndj>
what is that thing that looks like an electric drill, but has a flexible tube running from the chuck into a cardboard box???
<ashaw>
the spin coater.
<ashaw>
it is an electric drill
<azonenberg>
the cardboard is a spatter shiedl
<azonenberg>
*shield
<berndj>
ah! and a flexible coupling hose type thing?