<soul-d>
k done reading for today :)  i  conculde that e-readers at least this (sony prs-t1) is close to what these devices should do  few quirks in software (and ofcourse some type of sony usb cable thingy)  but reading is alot better then from lcd
<azonenberg>
So... I've already  demonstrated the ~100um resolution i'm looking for on PCBs so it should be no problem to get it on silicon for dicing
<azonenberg>
probably with nanosecond-level pulses
<azonenberg>
microsecnd*
<bart416>
I tried pulsed lasers before
<bart416>
I found them unsuitable for PCB exposure
<azonenberg>
You misunderstand
<azonenberg>
i'd do short pulses on the bluray diode for direct write
<bart416>
I doubt they'll do better at smale scale
<azonenberg>
because each pixel is so small i dont need a lot of energy
<azonenberg>
basically, figure out how much energy each pixel needs to get exposed completely
<azonenberg>
and differentiate
<bart416>
Well, the issue I found is actually the shape of the beam
<azonenberg>
how so?
<bart416>
Round beam, square pixels
<azonenberg>
I'd want a ~5um round beam
<azonenberg>
20um square pixels with rounded corners
<bart416>
You'd need significant overlap I think
<azonenberg>
Yeah
<azonenberg>
so for a 20um line i do 5um shots centered at 0, 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, 15, 17.5, 20
<azonenberg>
assumption is that the desired tophat beam will actually be a little more gaussian
<berndj>
is a laser diode's light sufficiently collimated for lithography?
<berndj>
i thought that mattered
<azonenberg>
berndj: You'd need optics
<azonenberg>
But you need optics even more with a halogen lamp :p
<berndj>
optics can't collimate a beam without losing some of the light
<berndj>
(imprecise jargon)
<azonenberg>
berndj: yes, i know
<azonenberg>
Thats why you get a nice high power source
<azonenberg>
so you can afford to lose some
<berndj>
ah ok
<berndj>
is a bluray LD a "nice high power source"?
<azonenberg>
200 mJ/cm^2 is what i need
<azonenberg>
my die is maybe 1/4 cm^2 (5mm square) at most
<azonenberg>
os i need 50 mJ over the entire die
<azonenberg>
Delivered over several minutes by a moving laser head
<azonenberg>
one milliwatt of actual energy after optics is probably enough
<azonenberg>
bluray diode is a few hundred i think
<azonenberg>
i'll probably have to pulse it to get average intensity down low enough to not overexpose
<CIA-67>
homecmos r149 | trunk/papers/ (17 files in 3 dirs) | Added first draft of project poster
<soul-d>
don't you need to move the laser realy precise with that method
<azonenberg>
soul-d: yes, or reflect it off precisely aimed mirrors
<azonenberg>
But it would let me get better resolution than i can with a normal printer
<azonenberg>
thats the whole point
<soul-d>
how did you start btw on what size  since you mention printer ? you should make entry howto  or proof of concepts ... maybe browse  site
<azonenberg>
soul-d: I'm actually doing a poster providing a summary of what's going on now
<soul-d>
din't even knew you had nyano technology :)
<azonenberg>
hoping to present at the CDMMS (capital district microscopy and microanalysis socity) meeting next month
<azonenberg>
they have their anual microanalysis and materials science poster competition
<soul-d>
oh yeah was looking at microscope alwasy wanted one  but i usaly start looking and by time im done  i need 10K +
<azonenberg>
even in the (very likely) event i do not win best poster, it should help increase awareness of the project
<azonenberg>
and mine was $1.2k including the camera
<azonenberg>
lol
<soul-d>
yeah found a site with ocassions
<soul-d>
but still pricy
<azonenberg>
amscope.com is where i got this one
<azonenberg>
Not the greatest scope, i am definitely seeing limitations
<soul-d>
netherlands here so stuck to looking local
<azonenberg>
But i could also afford it
<azonenberg>
Ah, i see
<soul-d>
im verry intrested  thats why i asked is this where digital meets chemistry :)
<soul-d>
and other fun stuff
<azonenberg>
Yep
<soul-d>
you have a list of intresting books ?  currently reading bit out of  "digital systems design with fpga"  wich starts a bit talking on the technology's behind it  but still different avenue
<azonenberg>
I've been doing most of my learning online actually
<soul-d>
k yeah din't fix wifi yet  here  so cant use ereader online  :P  thats why documents still preferred
<soul-d>
realy  like the e-ink stuff
<soul-d>
interesting at least  would be to figure out if  one in eu  / netherlands has acces to chemicals needed
<soul-d>
cause if you are i assume usa  based ?
<azonenberg>
Yes, i am
<azonenberg>
But most of the materials i've been using are not hard to get hold of
<azonenberg>
HCl, NaOH
<azonenberg>
Distilled water, acetone
<azonenberg>
the trickiest one is photoresist
<azonenberg>
oh, and hydrogen peroxide (3% aka drugstore grade)
<soul-d>
got those  is it the same as for pcb ?
<azonenberg>
the resist?
<soul-d>
yeah
<azonenberg>
I am using liquid resist sold for PCBs
<azonenberg>
I dilute it 50% with acetone to reduce the viscosity and thin the layer
<azonenberg>
then spin coat
<soul-d>
i think a shop in uk sold it to  in a brush type thingy
<soul-d>
or marker
<azonenberg>
That wont work, you need to be able to do an even film
<azonenberg>
Mine is sold as a liquid
<azonenberg>
apparently its made in a spray can too, which is less good but if you spray it on and then spin coat you can probably get it nice and even
<soul-d>
yeah i assumed it's a liquid inside ?  and just  tip to dispersi it evenly
<azonenberg>
Yes
<CIA-67>
homecmos r150 | trunk/papers/003_Poster/Poster.odp | Continued work on poster
<azonenberg>
Presenting an updated version of this (need to finish the references and add pics from my experiments being conducted this coming week) next month
<soul-d>
what is thecnical grade HCLÂ Â egg % ?
<azonenberg>
soul-d: Good point
<azonenberg>
32%
<azonenberg>
added
<azonenberg>
I need to shrink the text down by a bit, there's a little much
<azonenberg>
and font should be larger
<azonenberg>
For scale this will be printed on a 3x4 foot poster
<soul-d>
yeah  same  for the KOH also % missing but i think you can get that at 99,9% ?
<azonenberg>
The KOH is powder
<azonenberg>
so almost pure
<soul-d>
yeah  draining cleaner stuff i think oposite of naoh
<azonenberg>
there may be some impurities but its not like a dilute solution
<soul-d>
would be first place for me to look for chems
<azonenberg>
Lol
<azonenberg>
Yeah, thats why mems is easier than cmos
<azonenberg>
cmos is much more sensitive to trace metal impurities
<azonenberg>
i am seriously skeptical as to how much i could do cmos wise without buying "real" trace metal grade supplies
<soul-d>
ok so for cmos youd be bussy purifing resources or buying :P
<azonenberg>
bipolar transistors might be a little less sensitive
<azonenberg>
i have to read up more on BJTs
<soul-d>
i like your spin coater makes it  more home doable already :P  understood more of the alliance programs i already had on system tried to install  glade but need fresh linux install again
<soul-d>
it worked  but it also crashed a bit donno how realiable it is :)
<azonenberg>
Yes, its not very reliable
<azonenberg>
I use it because i havent had the time to learn any package that's more open and reliable
<azonenberg>
But as long as i  can export my design to GDS
<azonenberg>
i can open it up in another tool
<soul-d>
i think i had that mentor grapics progam somehwere around
<soul-d>
but definetly not open
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
yeah
<soul-d>
i always download packages that are expensive just for fun :)
<soul-d>
might come in ahndy some day :)
<azonenberg>
lol
<soul-d>
woulnd know where it is  though :)
<soul-d>
but you can't write it in vhdl ?
<soul-d>
or hdl language ?
<azonenberg>
You can do that for digital circuits but you still have to design the cell library
<azonenberg>
and compile your design to cells + wiring
<soul-d>
so comb drive is just cause of the pattern  but what does it do ?
<azonenberg>
soul-d: it's pretty much the mems equivalent of a solenoid
<azonenberg>
was chosen as the first actual device to build because its relatively simple