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<JesseW>
!help
<JesseW>
!pin foo
<JesseW>
Hm, does pinbot only listen to some people...?
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<achin>
yeah
<JesseW>
makes sense
<JesseW>
I wondered where it was pinning, but I see (from the chatlogs) it goes to the ipfs.io gateway servers
<achin>
prevents random internet strangers from forcing ipfs.io to pin 200 hours of rick asterly music videos
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<JesseW>
Since (I think) I didn't get an answer last time I asked this a couple of days ago, I'll ask again: Is the best current way to get a sense of the quantity/quality of backups of an object to use `ipfs dht findprovs`? Are there other ways?
<achin>
yes, i do believe that's the only way actually
<achin>
but you would have to run that for every hash, which could be a lot
<JesseW>
Hm. And that's just a wrapper around a command that goes out to the DHT, right? (links to more details gratefully appreciated)
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<achin>
and the other thing to keep in mind that you have no way of knowing if other providers have the hash pinned or not
<JesseW>
well, there is no technological way to know serious someone else is about continuing to make something available
<JesseW>
all we can know is whether they are *currently* making it available
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<achin>
sure. but in theory your node could ask the remote node "hey, i see you have QmFoo available. are you pinning it or not?" but such a question doesn't exist
<JesseW>
I think it would be neat to add an option to the garbage collector that caused it to avoid garbage collecting things with fewer than N providers
<JesseW>
a sort of semi-pin
<achin>
that would be neat, yep
<JesseW>
what repo should I make an issue for that in?
<JesseW>
ok, 3rd previously asked question: What else is needed for py-multiaddr to get moved out of alpha (as listed on https://github.com/jbenet/multiaddr )?
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<Vyl>
So tempted to put Time Cube on ipfs.. because.
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<knupfer>
How can I count the peers which have got a certain content?
<lgierth>
knupfer: `ipfs dht findprovs <hash>`
<lgierth>
there might be more providers for the hash, but this gives you a ballpark
<knupfer>
Ok, thank you!
<knupfer>
Does anyone now about the state of ipfs+nix? That sounds extremely promising.
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] whyrusleeping pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/vKKHk
<drastik>
so i am using this to add a file to ipfs in python and retrieve the hash
<drastik>
but it isnt working
<drastik>
ipfs doesnt even upload the file
<drastik>
i just get the usage screen
<drastik>
any ideas on what's going on?
<demize>
the ipfs or ipfs-add usage message?
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<drastik>
the ipfs usage message
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<drastik>
i just found out there is an ipfs python library so i will use this one.
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<demize>
Hah, check_output takes a single long string rather than a list.
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<Guest26163[m]>
kaboom
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<kpcyrd>
drathir: try removing `shell=True`
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<kpcyrd>
oh, wait, wrong dra*
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<lgierth>
whyrusleeping: auto-migrate works fine -- but we need juan's feedback because it might be a userspace breakage. it waits for input now while it would previously just fail and exit
<lgierth>
i'm fine with that i think, just saying he probably wants to signoff
<kpcyrd>
whyrusleeping: are the two ipns bugs you found fixed on master?
<whyrusleeping>
kpcyrd: should be, yeah
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<kpcyrd>
whyrusleeping: nice!
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<bigbluehat>
hi all...friend got confused by this line: "And zero duplication means savings in storage."
<bigbluehat>
doesn't IPFS allow anyone to "pin" copies of content?
<bigbluehat>
how does IPFS offer "zero duplication" to save storage?
* bigbluehat
needs to re-hone my pitch ;)
<xelra>
bigbluehat: If user A hashes a file and user B hashes the same file, they will have the same hash.
<xelra>
So user B will automatically become a pinner of user A's file.
<bigbluehat>
xelra: right, but how does that "mean savings in storage"?
<xelra>
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
<bigbluehat>
if I've hashed the file, I have it
<bigbluehat>
if I add it to IPFS, it doesn't disappear from my machine
<bigbluehat>
I'd have the option of trusting that someone somewhere will keep a copy
<bigbluehat>
but afaik there's no way to know if someone has and/or will
<xelra>
Read my second line again.
<bigbluehat>
correct?
<bigbluehat>
so...on disk, what happens to the local copy?
<xelra>
You still have it.
<bigbluehat>
right, so it's not saving storage at that point
<bigbluehat>
I understand the "zero duplication" wrt to identification
<xelra>
Imagine this. The same file results in different hashes.
<bigbluehat>
but duplication is actually a selling point for IPFS wrt to caching, redundancy, etc.
<xelra>
Now user A and user B have the same file. And they can pin each others file. They would have it twice then.
<bigbluehat>
"And no duplication from renamed files, means savings in storage."
<bigbluehat>
that seems clearer, yeah?
<bigbluehat>
'cause the point afaik is that the file always gets the same name when it arrives in IPFS
<bigbluehat>
so you could save file A, B, and C (if they're contents are equal) and it'll only be in IPFS one time (if you're the only one storing it so far)
<xelra>
That's additionally. Because for example for torrents, renaming a file results in a different hash. That's why you can't rename seeding files.
<bigbluehat>
gotcha.
<xelra>
Let's assume the both of use are collaboratively pinning.
<bigbluehat>
I think in the context of "high efficiency" that "zero duplication" sentence gets confusing
<xelra>
Now I add a file and then we both have it pinned.
<xelra>
Now you add a file and it is the same file I already added at a later time.
<xelra>
Now we won't have it both pinned as a duplicate, but instead we have the same pin to the same file.
<xelra>
That's deduplication.
<bigbluehat>
right.
<bigbluehat>
I follow :)
<bigbluehat>
the "fix" though is about naming, not redundancy
<bigbluehat>
it's that you're not adding duplicates just 'cause someone changed the name
<xelra>
Yes, that also.
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<bigbluehat>
so in the scenario of "high efficiency" I think highlighting the naming aspect would be clearer
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<bigbluehat>
hence my proposed "And no duplication from renamed files, means savings in storage."
<bigbluehat>
otherwise it reads like IPFS only keeps one copy on the network at any given time
<bigbluehat>
which sounds terrible
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<xelra>
That renaming doesn't affect deduplication is only a side-feature of the real deduplication feature.
<xelra>
Kinda like hardlinks, where renaming doesn't change the file, because the metadata in POSIX is tied to the hardlink.
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<lgierth>
deduplication also covers parts of files
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<bigbluehat>
gotcha.
<lgierth>
so if 2 files are 90% identical, there's the saving
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<bigbluehat>
still wondering how to make it clearer, I 'spose :)
<bigbluehat>
lgierth: oh. wait! is that new?
<whyrusleeping>
bigbluehat: that looks like a typo on the webpage
<lgierth>
bigbluehat: no that has always existed -- we chunk files into blocks of 256k
<lgierth>
if a block with that hash already exists, we're saving space
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<bigbluehat>
awesome
<bigbluehat>
whyrusleeping: great to know :)
<whyrusleeping>
er
<whyrusleeping>
wait
<whyrusleeping>
i'm rereading it
<whyrusleeping>
its right
<xelra>
lgierth: How does that happen in reality? 2 different files with the same chunks? I mean those have to be at the same point in the file also.
<whyrusleeping>
theres zero deuplication
<bigbluehat>
also (I've likely asked this in the past...), is there a way to run a "private" IPFS? like on a home network?
<xelra>
bigbluehat: ipfs-cluster is what you want.
<richardlitt>
lgierth: let me know about the changelog, I can edit it
<xelra>
It's being developed.
<whyrusleeping>
if i add a file A, and then add file B, where file B contains a large portion of file A
<bigbluehat>
xelra: awesome
<richardlitt>
What does RC mean?
<xelra>
release candidate?
<richardlitt>
that's what i thought, not sure
<xelra>
radio controlled?
<richardlitt>
Why is it a candidate and not a release?
<bigbluehat>
it's a candidate for relase
<bigbluehat>
end point (if you're talking W3C anyhow) is "Technical Release"
<richardlitt>
Why is there a candidacy process?
<richardlitt>
Specifically, for go-ipfs
<bigbluehat>
"last call" for changes?
<whyrusleeping>
no
<richardlitt>
also, o/ bigbluehat
<whyrusleeping>
last call for finding bugs
<bigbluehat>
richardlitt: hi yeah :)
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<bigbluehat>
whyrusleeping: gotcha
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<xelra>
I've started to learn Go just for messing a bit with ipfs, but just this in the tour is already brainfucking me. :)
<lgierth>
richardlitt: there's an RC process in order to weed out bad bugs. we've had a couple of these in the past few releases which would probably have been caught by an RC
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<whyrusleeping>
xelra: closures maaaaan
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<deltab>
xelra: not come across closures before?
<xelra>
No, it's my first time. I always thought the data was destroyed in the higher function.
<deltab>
I only know how it's implemented in Python: variables that are closed over aren't stored in stack frames at all but in cell objects on the heap
<deltab>
then both functions access the variable in that cell
<deltab>
local variables that aren't shared between functions are stored in the stack frame as usual, so they do get destroyed when their function returns
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<ckwaldon>
Question from the py-ipfs-api team: Does anyone have an example of a correct HTTP request to a node's REST api that adds a directory recursively? Something is (we think) wrong with our requests, but we don't have an example of what they should look like to compare with.
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<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs-api] dignifiedquire created greenkeeper-qs-6.2.1 (+1 new commit): https://git.io/vKiCA
<ipfsbot>
js-ipfs-api/greenkeeper-qs-6.2.1 a388d87 greenkeeperio-bot: chore(package): update qs to version 6.2.1...
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<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs-api] dignifiedquire deleted greenkeeper-qs-6.2.1 at a388d87: https://git.io/vKilK
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] whyrusleeping force-pushed feat/auto-migrate from 7914ee9 to fcc4f00: https://git.io/vKqv4
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feat/auto-migrate fcc4f00 Jeromy: move prompt code into daemon.go...
<knupfer>
How can I make "ipfs cat" error out if there isn't found a peer? Would I have to write a script which checks if "ipfs dht findprovs" puts out something?
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<deltab>
knupfer: set a time limit
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<Guest26265[m]>
hey! I have 2 noobs questions I would like to ask. 1st - Are the files stored along all the network, or just in some peers? If in the last one only, for example, are the files not accessible if all the peers where the files are stored are turned off? 2nd question - the files hosted in the peers are the files itself? are they somehow encrypted?
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<lgierth>
Guest26265[m]: files are stored only on nodes which added it using `ipfs add`, or which intentionally fetched them from other nodes
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<lgierth>
Guest26265[m]: there is no encryption by default, but files are split into chunks of 256 KiB, and wrapped in a tiny bit of data which describes that it's a file (or directory)
<lgierth>
any kind of data can be stored in ipfs, not just files/directories, so that's what this wrapper is for
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