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<A124>
Does one need to set something on the API to be able to pin via the addon?
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<kii>
any one know how to use modbus? any one has taken sat/ielts/act? any one from usa/europe?
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<whyrusleeping>
dont worry, i'm still alive
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<lkcl>
hi is there someone who knows if there is anything resembling "Access Control Lists" (ACLs) on objects in ipfs?
<lkcl>
there's a specific scenario that i seek to prevent and prohibit
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<lkcl>
i was wondering if anyone has some pointers to documentation, apart from "read the source"! :)
<lkcl>
the scenario is: i specifically seek to ensure that a "directory" is writeable *only* by a specific list of pre-approved people
<lkcl>
the scenario to be avoided is: i create a "directory" and then along comes a spammer and drops 100,000 objects into it without authorisation
<lkcl>
how is that scenario currently "avoided"?
<lkcl>
that's the question i seek an answer to: any pointers greatly appreciated
<A124>
lkcl No, so far its public, encryption planed for future.
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<A124>
lkcl But a spammer cannot drop things anywhere.
<A124>
ipfs stuff is content based, so it would change hash, and ipns is based on your key. And if you mean API/Gateway security, you can wrap it with nginx or some front end webserver and implement login there.
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<A124>
So not sure what a writeable directory means in this context. Devs might have better words.
<lkcl>
A124: ah ha! ok. so... it's very much like git revisions (and branches)
<lkcl>
A124: if you don't accept that particular branch "commit" shall we say, then the spammer is just totally wasting their time
<lkcl>
A124: if i can use git terminology: only if you do a "git pull" and then make a conscious decision to accept the commit as *YOUR* master branch...
<lkcl>
i like it!
<lkcl>
A124: no i don't mean API/gateway security
<lkcl>
A124: although that's a really good idea, implement an authentication plugin which looks for a GPG public key *from ipfs*...
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<whyrusleeping>
lkcl: yeap! any questions about the ipfs datastructure can generally be mapped to the git model
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<Kubuxu>
whyrusleeping, lkcl: ACL should be something we should think about for the UnixFS IPLD model.
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<lkcl>
whyrusleeping: awesome
<lkcl>
Kubuxu: only in the context of also having an "automatic HEAD (master) update policy"
<lkcl>
Kubuxu: it should thus therefore be possible to define a list of people who "subscribe" to a particular ref-by-name, such that those people are permitted to carry out certain operations (one of which includes, "change the hash for that HEAD/master")
<Kubuxu>
there isn't any system in place for change the hash of the HEAD
<lkcl>
i cannot say that i am a fan of the POSIX filesystem security model - it's subtly flawed
<whyrusleeping>
lkcl: the POSIX filesystem model we have is just an abstraction built on top of the ipfs merkledag, its not the only way to interact with ipfs
<lkcl>
as in, "provide a chain by which people can walk to the new head reference"
<lkcl>
automatically, that is
<whyrusleeping>
ah, yeah.
<whyrusleeping>
we don't have anything like that
<lkcl>
whyrusleeping: understood
<whyrusleeping>
its coming though
<lkcl>
whyrusleeping: it's something that would be done, i should imagine, by the filesystem layer itself
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<whyrusleeping>
hrm...
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<lkcl>
as opposed to being something that ipfs inherently has as part of its protocol
<lkcl>
i am however trying to think if there's any implications for atomicity there....
<whyrusleeping>
lkcl: this can be done using a blockchain :P
<lkcl>
thinking again in "git" terms, commits are atomic and can cover the addition of "multiple objects", right?
<lkcl>
whyrusleeping: :)
<whyrusleeping>
yes
<lkcl>
ok then that's solved, you can add new objects indicating that the ACL has changed, and add a new HEAD as well at the same time
<lkcl>
*thinks*....
<lkcl>
how could you detect that that had occurred, though, and how could you receive "notification" of the changes?
<lkcl>
hmmm... that one's a bit of a headache...
<whyrusleeping>
we have pubsub :)
<lkcl>
ah ha!
<whyrusleeping>
(not in master yet, but it will be soon)
<lkcl>
just reading up on it a bit..
<lkcl>
dang there's a lot of people working on this project
<lkcl>
whyrusleeping: ah! one thing that's really *really* important as part of the protocol
<lkcl>
whyrusleeping: i have a feature request (i can't record it as i won't get a github account, please don't ask why)
<lkcl>
it's that when adding "encryption", that it be possible to specify, i do NOT wish to be communicated with from anyone who FORCES encryption.
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<lkcl>
just like the bittorrent "require encryption", "accept enc/unenc", "accept unencrypted only"
<lkcl>
that's not the same as "signature verification" btw!
<lkcl>
obviously.
<Kubuxu>
transport level encryption is default, also there is no option to disable it and be part of the network
<Kubuxu>
you can disable it locally for protocol testing but you won't be able to connect to the rest of the network
<lkcl>
Kubuxu: that's very very important - as in it's a showstopper - if it's not possible
<Kubuxu>
why?
<lkcl>
Kubuxu: it's absolutely critical that the communications that i be involved in be IN THE CLEAR
<lkcl>
digitally-signed, but in the clear is really REALLY important
<lkcl>
why specifically? because there exists the strong possibility that i would end up being murdered if i use anything that cannot be verified by an unknown outside third party, that's why
<lkcl>
it's the total opposite of the "secrecy" thing.
<lkcl>
the moment that i engage in "secret communications", there are people in the world who will assume that i have something to hide
<lkcl>
and, rather than take the risk that i am trying to do something which threatens them, they will just have me killed.
<lkcl>
so the answer is: it's so that i can use this kind of technology and stay alive.
<lkcl>
Kubuxu: does that make sense?
<lkcl>
now, the last thing i need is people trying to *impersonate* me, so it's also equally vital that those communications be GPG-signed (verified)
<lkcl>
but "encrypted" for me is *NOT* an option.
<lkcl>
total opposite of what people would normally expect, huh? :)
<lkcl>
back later, gotta go upstairs
<LugariusMtrx>
is there a limit of possible files in ipfs?
<Kubuxu>
Yes it is and I am not sure if it is possible to support.
<Kubuxu>
LugariusMtrx: there is not but adding file to ipfs doesn't mean it is uploaded somewhere else.
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<LugariusMtrx>
i mean the hash is 47 chars long..... what happens if they are all used?
<kudaweb>
hey
<kudaweb>
how do i see what files i have shared?
<kudaweb>
i've added files
<kudaweb>
but how can i check what the hash is?
<Kubuxu>
kudaweb: you got hash after an add
<Kubuxu>
it is probably also pinned so you can list all pinned hashes with `ipfs pin ls`.
<kudaweb>
i know but if 2 weeks pass
<Kubuxu>
LugariusMtrx: they won
<LugariusMtrx>
use the browser
<kudaweb>
i can't remember the hash :)
<Kubuxu>
LugariusMtrx: they won't be ever used ...
<kudaweb>
the webui?
<LugariusMtrx>
yes
<Kubuxu>
you can add the file again to get the hash
<LugariusMtrx>
just use the web ui
<Kubuxu>
we have something planned to make finding added hashes easier in future
<LugariusMtrx>
its the easyest
<kudaweb>
cool
<LugariusMtrx>
i have to many files, so i use the web ui
<kudaweb>
i kind of expectef 'ipfs ls' to do that for me
<kudaweb>
do i need to open any ports or anything?
<r0kk3rz>
yeah you might be having nat issues
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<kudaweb>
any documentation on getting that to work with ipfs?
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<aggelos_>
so, literally a meta-meta question... I'm having trouble following the discussion/development around changes to ipld etc. should I be monitoring the irc channel more closely? github issues?
<Kubuxu>
github, there are quite many issues about ipld
<whyrusleeping>
lkcl: thats a perspective i've actually never considered... thank you
<whyrusleeping>
aggelos_: take a look at the couple repos in the ipld github org
<kudaweb>
ipfs is brilliant but such a messy project :/
<ansuz>
oh, ipld has its own org?
<ansuz>
SQUAT ALL THE NAMES
<ansuz>
I like it
<aggelos_>
whyrusleeping: there's an ipld github org?
<whyrusleeping>
aggelos_: yeap! github.com/ipld
<kudaweb>
any idea how can i diagnose nat/connectivity issues?
<aggelos_>
well it was half a rhetorical question :-)
<whyrusleeping>
kudaweb: its a bit spread out, yeah. But i'm curious if you have specific examples of it being messy
<whyrusleeping>
(i hope thats the right link, chinese internet makes this difficult)
<ansuz>
whyrusleeping: you're in China?
<whyrusleeping>
aggelos_: but admittedly, i have a rough time keeping track of everything... i(we)'ve been trying to figure out better ways to do it recently
<whyrusleeping>
ansuz: yeah, we went to the ethereum devcon in shanghai
<kudaweb>
whyrusleeping: yea maybe you guys are organising it ok but there's so much information that it's not possible to make sense of it immediately
<aggelos_>
whyrusleeping: kk, thanks for the pointers!
<whyrusleeping>
kudaweb: yeah, definitely agreed that theres a ton of information. not sure about calling it 'too much' at this point, i feel it might be just a symptom of suboptimal organization
<ansuz>
whyrusleeping: isn't there an ETC conference organized to take place at the same time in China?
<ansuz>
personally I lean towards favouring an immutable blockchain
<whyrusleeping>
aggelos_: for sure :) feel free to ask me if you have any other questions about how to get information about the project.
<whyrusleeping>
ansuz: well, the blockchain has been immutable. No mined blocks have changed, there was simply a split. both chains are immutable
<aggelos_>
whyrusleeping: well I was also interested in finding out what ipfs's story is re: all the dht attacks (the text in the draft whitepaper seems to gloss over the academic attacks)
<aggelos_>
searching around on github got me very few hits re: sybil, eclipse etc
<whyrusleeping>
aggelos_: yeah, we definitely have dht things to improve on. But that stuff in general is a "Hard Problem"
<whyrusleeping>
We partially implement S-Kademlia
<kudaweb>
so if other nodes are connecting to me, can i access the files through their publically exposed ipfs.io/ipfs/hash
<kudaweb>
?
<whyrusleeping>
and are planning on rolling out more of the features of that paper as needed (dev time is the limiting factor)
<whyrusleeping>
kudaweb: yeap!
<whyrusleeping>
asssuming they actually expose it
<aggelos_>
whyrusleeping: I know, though possibly the don't affect all use cases the same; plus, authenticated data means no corruption etc
<kudaweb>
this is the directory that im sharing QmPdkQf2joCNepJWJT78voz8QBuCS3TnyPm6nqgq8Bq37P
<aggelos_>
whyrusleeping: well the paper talks design, not so much design decisions/considerations
<kudaweb>
how do i access it, i know other peers are sharing it
<kudaweb>
i have 136 peers connected to me
<ansuz>
is there a daemon mode where I can run without dht functionality?
<ansuz>
like if I only want to work locally
<damongant>
ansuz, empty our the Addresses/Swarm array in ~/.ipfs/config
<damongant>
and it wouldn't bind
<ansuz>
ahh
<ansuz>
no command-line flag?
<damongant>
and probably also kill all the bootstrap nodes
<damongant>
not that I'd know
<ansuz>
this would only be temporary, while I'm tethered to my phone
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<damongant>
sounds like it'd be easier to just firewall it off in that case
<damongant>
maybe a little overkill ansuz, but how about sandboxing the ipfs daemon without internet connectivity?
<whyrusleeping>
Kubuxu: also, use mars.i.ipfs.team:9444 for pinning packages
<Kubuxu>
yeah, true
<whyrusleeping>
(i need a real domain for that)
<kudaweb>
how would you go about having object metadata|tags, and then have those tags searchable?
<whyrusleeping>
kudaweb: thats a "Hard Problem" (tm)
<kudaweb>
dang
<whyrusleeping>
so, the basic problem we're looking to solve here is search
<whyrusleeping>
theres a good amount of stuff discussed on github about searching and indexing ipfs
<whyrusleeping>
in my opinion there are a few options
<whyrusleeping>
the first, is to start making an indexer, that is a cluster of nodes scattered around, listening for content announcements on the dht
<whyrusleeping>
those nodes should then pull and index each object they hear about
<kudaweb>
would you just run a key/value db on the side
<whyrusleeping>
probably for now, yeah
<whyrusleeping>
later we could make it distributed
<kudaweb>
yup
<whyrusleeping>
but i'm really a rapid prototyping sort of guy
<kudaweb>
content annoucements?
<whyrusleeping>
dht provider RPCs
<whyrusleeping>
when you add content to ipfs, you announce to the network you can provide it
<kudaweb>
so you have content, and you have the search db listing hash and their keywords
<kudaweb>
right
<whyrusleeping>
yeap!
<whyrusleeping>
and once we have that basic system set up
<kudaweb>
but every time i publish i knew object
<kudaweb>
i would have to make the manual entry to the search db
<whyrusleeping>
we can make metadata objects that a basic object containing a set of keywords, and then a single link to stuff its describing
<kudaweb>
*a new object, sorry getting late
<kudaweb>
cool, so is there a notion of object types coming in now?
<kudaweb>
ie this object is a metadata object
<whyrusleeping>
kinda, yeah
<Kubuxu>
no but you can have link metadata
<whyrusleeping>
there is a unixfs metadata object
<r0kk3rz>
whyrusleeping: solve crawling, and then existing search systems can be used
<whyrusleeping>
but its not really used right now
<whyrusleeping>
r0kk3rz: yeah, fair
<kudaweb>
link as in ipns?
<Kubuxu>
as whyrusleeping said: crawl by listening to DHT records, have X nodes in different parts of keyspace and they should be able to get most records
<Kubuxu>
the more nodes in the network the more nodes you will neeed
<kudaweb>
where can i read about unixfs metadata?
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<Kubuxu>
current unixfs isn't really speced out format I think, but I might be wrong
<whyrusleeping>
kudaweb: eh... theres not much documentation on it since we don't use it
<Kubuxu>
with IPLD you could embed metadata inside transparent links
<kudaweb>
thanks whyrusleeping
<Kubuxu>
also it could be interesting way of tracking someone
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<kudaweb>
i think if the common way of creating objects is through web ui you can avoid the problem by just creating the object through js-api and sending the textual metadata to the db
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<cosmos>
r0kk3rz: ok, how to realise a Twitter alternative?
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<whyrusleeping>
cosmos: take a look at Planet Express
<r0kk3rz>
_mak: yeah it seems to be using ethereum for head tracking, instead of something like ipns
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<whyrusleeping>
r0kk3rz: yeah, axic is really big into the ethereum crowd (he was here at the conference this week)
<whyrusleeping>
it makes sense to use ethereum for that
<whyrusleeping>
as the blockchain is a lot more permanent than ipns
<whyrusleeping>
though to that end... i have an experiment that stores ipns records in the ethereum blockchain
<whyrusleeping>
:D
<Kubuxu>
whyrusleeping: about 0 transports and protocol wrapping: it might be something worth investigating for future: in cjdns you would have buffer structure where lower levels can preallocate space
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<Kubuxu>
* about 0 copy transports
<Kubuxu>
so you don't have to copy the buffer to wrap it into a header
<whyrusleeping>
yeah, i did that a bit with msgio
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<Kubuxu>
One would have to use ReaderWritterCloserAllocator interface or something like that
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<r0kk3rz>
whyrusleeping: if the shoe fits :)
<WardCunningham>
I'm working on ipfs images in federated wiki this morning (its 7:45 am here)
<WardCunningham>
I'm wondering what kind of latentcy I can expect retrieving an image throught the gateway.
<whyrusleeping>
WardCunningham: first time any gateway loads it, it might take a little longer. Depending on the latency between the node who has the image and the gateway node you hit
<WardCunningham>
What would cause an `ipfs add` one place to not be visible at all somewhere else?
<WardCunningham>
... I'm reading issue.
<whyrusleeping>
Kubuxu: yeah... i saw that
<whyrusleeping>
gonna take a look at it this week
<Kubuxu>
connectivity issues (NAT, not compatible transports for example IPv4 vs v6)
<Kubuxu>
or DHT queue
* whyrusleeping
currently working on gx
<Kubuxu>
<3
<Kubuxu>
any work on gx is awesome
<WardCunningham>
I'm not knowledgeable about dht. Is ipfs unusual in its implementation?
<Kubuxu>
dht shouldn't really be an issue
<Kubuxu>
unless as I said: the adding ipfs node is adding lots and lots of files then the dht might lag behind the add operations
<whyrusleeping>
WardCunningham: nah, the only interesting part about ipfs and its dht is how much we abuse it compared to other networks dhts
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<WardCunningham>
I was suppose to code some timeout logic yesterday. Instead I read ipfs docs all day. Lots to read, and fun too. But today I code.
<WardCunningham>
Thanks.
<Kubuxu>
were they any good? We constantly try to improve them.
<WardCunningham>
I especially liked the examples. Saw whyrusleeping as author of many.
<whyrusleeping>
WardCunningham: :) glad you liked them!
<whyrusleeping>
let me know if anything needs updating, or any other examples you'd like to see
<WardCunningham>
Mostly I learned the breadth of things I could be doing with ipfs. My goal of the moment is so modest. But one must start somewhere to learn from experience.
<WardCunningham>
It just ocured to me that I should write a gist for things that I don't understand, then I could show you what experiment isn't working for me.
<WardCunningham>
I'll try that now.
<whyrusleeping>
That would be really useful
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<whyrusleeping>
I'm very happy to write on any topic people are interested in learning more about
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<WardCunningham>
I wrote a test script for remote ipfs add followed by local ipfs cat.
<WardCunningham>
and it hangs indefinitly. I was expecting a timeout after 30 seconds.
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<WardCunningham>
By indefinitly, I mean at least 30 minutes. I'm that far into my test.
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<Kubuxu>
ipfs cat has different timeout than the gateway
<Kubuxu>
I think the cat has no timeout
<r0kk3rz>
is the gateway using ipfs-js?
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<M-flyingzumwalt>
edsilv and I had an interesting conversation on the Internet Archive's slack about decentralized web services. I think a lot of people on this channel would want to chime in (and know about he conversation) so Re-posted the conversation as a gist here: https://gist.github.com/flyingzumwalt/02fbf076fbe778b55c66ae3d6bef8927
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<M-flyingzumwalt>
haad daviddias ^
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<victorbjelkholm>
Kubuxu, correct, cat has no timeout, at least in go-ipfs
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<victorbjelkholm>
WardCunningham, the quit you've seen with the message "Killed" is probably because of out-of-memory killer, you should be able to find something mentioning oom in /var/log/*
<WardCunningham>
Ah, will go look now.
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<victorbjelkholm>
try taking at look at the exit code next time it happens (echo $?) (oom uses 127 what I know), and also try monitoring the memory usage
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<victorbjelkholm>
whyrusleeping, if you're looking for more examples, I'd like to see an example on how to use go-ipfs as a lib from golang, I have something like this now: https://gist.github.com/VictorBjelkholm/89ecd9cbbc750aae9a8c3b3f008bff08 but missing to actually print out the right data, instead of all data
<victorbjelkholm>
WardCunningham, ah, you mentioned you run it on Digital Ocean? They don't have any swap by default, so if you run out of memory, OOM-killer will start killing off stuff. I know I had the same problem before adding swap
<WardCunningham>
that must be it.
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<WardCunningham>
any idea how much swap to allocate?
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<victorbjelkholm[>
WardCunningham: I've gone with 1GB and haven't had any issues since
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<ianopolous_>
does it make sense for someone to try adding a directory using the ipfs add command (like ipfs add -r $dir) in the http api? or is that just for the cmd line?
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<cosmos>
r0kk3rz: ansuz: whyrusleeping: haad: morph.is what i mean :)
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<victorbjelkholm>
ianopolous_, you'll have to provide the directory + files yourself to add, maybe you can take a look at how js-ipfs-api handles it, if you're used to reading JS code
<ianopolous_>
victorbjelkholm: I've looked at js-ipfs-api, but they don't seem to handle this in the ipfs add command (correct me if I'm wrong)
<victorbjelkholm>
otherwise I would recommend trying to run some basic add with recursive option turned on, and inspecting the traffic to see the actual data sent, I don't think we have the exact format specced out yet
<victorbjelkholm>
ianopolous_, ah, yeah, a bit confusing but basically what gets passed into the add command needs to be an array of objects (which are files and directories [basically recursive])
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<A124>
WardCunningham killed is unix ... the core kills process for a reason, for example out of memory.
<A124>
Pulbishing on top of IPFS, thinking how. Maybe orbit.
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