#ipfs on 2016-09-27 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2016-09-20 18:28 lgierth changed the topic of #ipfs to: go-ipfs 0.4.3 has been released! what's changed: https://ipfs.io/blog/19-ipfs-0-4-3-released -- IPFS - InterPlanetary File System -- https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs -- FAQ: https://git.io/voEh8 -- Channel logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/ipfs/ -- Code of Conduct: https://git.io/vVBS0 -- Sprints: https://git.io/voEAh

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00:40 <elimiste1e> kvda: good question; I'd also like to know this...

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00:41 <elimiste1e> Related question: when does a node cache/store/serve content aside from when it manually requests that content?

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01:05 <apiarian> i think the "large fixed archive node + smaller mobile hot-data node" combination is a special case of the general node-group idea that's been discussed previously. any active projects working in that direction?

01:23 <apiarian> actually, thinking some more, it seems like my interplanetary game system is just a special case of a trust-based multi-node rule-based-state-mutation system that one might use to play turn-based games, or to manage the pinned objects on multiple nodes, or to maintain and distribute an object metadata repository for a search system... maybe i should generalize!

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04:38 <buhrmi_> hey guys. what's the best source of entropy

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05:44 <dignifiedquire> good morning :)

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05:54 <buhrmi_> morning dag

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09:05 <ansuz> !botsnack

09:05 <pinbot> om nom nom

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09:33 <keks> Hey everyone, I opened an issue on go-libp2p-crypto and I'd love some feedback

09:33 <keks> https://github.com/libp2p/go-libp2p-crypto/issues/8

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09:35 <keks> gotta run, bye!

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10:08 <kudaweb> what would be the easiest way to pin all objects on a particular node?

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10:40 <Mateon1> kudaweb: You can get all local hashes with "ipfs refs local", and if you're on linux, you can use xargs to pin each one. `ipfs refs local | xargs ipfs pin add`

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10:41 <Mateon1> If you don't want to pin everything under all those hashes you might want to use "--recursive false" on the pin call

10:42 <kudaweb> i want to pin content on a particular node though

10:43 <Mateon1> Hm? Do you mean pin a bunch of hashes on a remote node?

10:44 <kudaweb> yes

10:44 <kudaweb> i could be misunderstanding something

10:44 <Mateon1> Well... If you own the remote node and can execute commands, you can just run "ipfs pin <hash1> <hash2> <hash3>..." to pin a bunch of hashes

10:44 <kudaweb> i.e. i create some content on my node

10:45 <edsilv[m]1> !pin QmQU27GckXdVnFG6qezMTshjCWLzx1PL1t1fn2nrbVe5hs Fluent Interviews for British Library

10:45 <kudaweb> and then a friend wants to make sure that all my content is always supported by his node etc.

10:46 <Mateon1> kudaweb: Ah, you can give him the hash for the directory containing your content, and he can run `ipfs pin <hash>` and everything under that hash will be retrieved and pinned recursively

10:46 <kudaweb> Mateon1: yes :) i want to know if you can pin the whole node..

10:46 <kudaweb> or a directory

10:46 <kudaweb> i guess a directory is fine

10:46 <kudaweb> but pinning a node would be useful too

10:46 <kudaweb> because you're ensuring any new objects are pinned right

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10:47 <kudaweb> if i add a new file to a directory that generates a new hash right

10:47 <Mateon1> Yep

10:47 <Mateon1> So that's impossible, at least for now

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10:48 <Mateon1> Your friend could have a cron script run every once in a while to pin content you have published to /ipns

10:48 <kudaweb> so you can't list all hashes that a particular remote node has pinned

10:48 <Mateon1> But that's not the same as all the content on your node

10:48 <kudaweb> ahh that could work

10:48 <Mateon1> kudaweb: You might be interested in the `ipfs files` command

10:49 <Mateon1> It provides a semi-mutable filesystem on top of IPFS.

10:49 <kudaweb> any downsides to it compared to regular objects?

10:49 <kudaweb> thanks, one thing i haven't played with it

10:49 <kudaweb> i'll look it up

10:49 <Mateon1> It's exactly the same as regular objects

10:49 <Mateon1> It's just a convenience command

10:50 <Mateon1> It allows you to add a single file/directory to the filesystem without re-adding the whole folder

10:51 <kudaweb> ahh

10:51 <kudaweb> so you create a directory object? then use files cmd to add files to it?

10:52 <kudaweb> sorry the examples are not particulary clear, and im not sure how to init it

10:52 <Mateon1> kudaweb: It should be inited by default, to an empty filesystem (root=empty dir)

10:53 <kudaweb> ahh so by default it's blank

10:53 <kudaweb> ok got it

10:53 <Mateon1> You can then run `ipfs files mkdir /path/to/something`, and `ipfs files cp /ipfs/QmHASH /path/to/whatever`

10:53 <kudaweb> and to add files to it you need to pass an object hash to files cp

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10:54 <kudaweb> but you can't add new files to files directly (get them made into objects then added to files)

10:54 <kudaweb> i think this is just a bit of ux works that could be improved ^

10:55 <Mateon1> Well, ipfs theoretically has `ipfs files write`, but I couldn't get that to work for me

10:55 <kudaweb> ie 'ipfs files add ~/mylocal.file /myipfs.file

10:55 <kudaweb> and then add can show the newly generated hash for the mylocal.file object

10:55 <Mateon1> Anyway, we'll probably have that, as well as FUSE-mountable MFS (mutable file system, what the name will be changed to)

10:55 <kudaweb> lovely

10:56 <Mateon1> kudaweb: Yes, you can get the root hash with `ipfs files stat /`

10:57 <Mateon1> kudaweb: Here's an example of the usage: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmQjtwmw7LJpAesny2sWozxTygEaSdkdeDqg7vsmHpAkt4

10:57 <kudaweb> so it's a bit confusing that ifps files helps uses dest/path interchangeably

10:57 <kudaweb> i assume it's interchangable

10:58 <Mateon1> Well, it uses <path> when there is no source->destination, and <source> <dest> when there are

10:58 <Mateon1> So cat, read, rm use <path> and cp, mv use <source> <dest>

10:59 <kudaweb> Mateon1: `cat test | ipfs files write --create /test` worked for me

10:59 <Mateon1> kudaweb: I guess it's just a Windows thing then. It doesn't detect the pipe into the program and just shows the help message

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11:00 <kudaweb> ah i see

11:00 <Mateon1> *starts writing bug report*

11:00 <kudaweb> :)

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11:04 <kudaweb> wonder if ipfs files ls should be the default ls

11:04 <kudaweb> and ipfs add should be ipfs files write

11:05 <kudaweb> and ls should list filename + hash

11:05 <Mateon1> Probably not

11:05 <lgierth> kudaweb: the files commands are a superset of add, cat, ls, and object patch

11:06 <Mateon1> I believe the team had a discussion on this a few weeks ago

11:06 <kudaweb> oh i get that

11:06 <lgierth> the files commands always operate from exactly one root node, the files root

11:06 <Mateon1> Also, the `ipfs files` command will be renamed to `ipfs mfs` (as far as I know)

11:06 <kudaweb> it's just that the common use, or ux, is better to not even think about that

11:07 <kudaweb> it's like a technical thing that should be there but not the way you interact with it

11:07 <lgierth> it's *your* common use, not *the* common use ;)

11:07 <Mateon1> I wouldn't say I always want to add things into mfs

11:07 <kudaweb> yes yes

11:07 <Mateon1> So no

11:07 <lgierth> but i hear you, we need to make the difference clearer

11:08 <kudaweb> can we agree that files way is more immediately intuitive?

11:08 <kudaweb> hmm or at least familiar

11:08 <Mateon1> Not really, only if you think of IPFS as a sort of dropbox/onedrive, but I don't think we should

11:08 <lgierth> yeah i agree it's the intuitive thing for file syncing

11:08 <kudaweb> yes but for adoption it would be useful to present it as such

11:09 <kudaweb> and then have the 'advanced' features be discoverable

11:09 <lgierth> oh ipfs's goals are much much more than just p2p file syncing :) that's just a side-effect feature, actually

11:09 <kudaweb> i explained to a friend and he got some concepts really quickly

11:09 <Mateon1> I think the confusion mostly stems from file related naming for the merkle object commands

11:09 <kudaweb> he said a day later, this is pretty much like a giant brain

11:10 <lgierth> haha :)

11:10 <Mateon1> It should be "read" and "links", not "cat" and "ls"

11:10 <Mateon1> (does ipfs cat even catenate?)

11:10 <kudaweb> cat is not for catenation

11:11 <lgierth> i think the source of confusion is the big global immutable namespace vs. individual mutable namespaces

11:11 <lgierth> cat - concatenate files and print on the standard output

11:11 <kudaweb> oops

11:11 <lgierth> :)

11:11 <kudaweb> im not sure what i was thining of

11:11 <lgierth> ipfs cat /ipfs/hash1 /ipfs/hash2 [...]

11:11 <kudaweb> it's late

11:11 <kudaweb> haha

11:12 <lgierth> it should obviously be for printing cats

11:12 <lgierth> but that's for the utopian future :(

11:12 <kudaweb> that we can agree on

11:13 <kudaweb> maybe even breaking out the ipfs files into it's own command..

11:13 <lgierth> but about mutability/immutability and files naming: for me it's helpful to think of the immutable global namespace as "the filesystem" part of ipfs

11:13 <lgierth> and on top of that there's various ways of having mutable namespaces

11:13 <lgierth> /ipns, the files api, etc.

11:14 <kudaweb> various? i thought it was only done through ipns

11:14 <kudaweb> ah i see

11:14 <kudaweb> of course

11:14 <lgierth> the files api is only visible to a single node, ipns is discoverable by others

11:15 <lgierth> and there's variations to /ipns, like dnslink (and more in the future)

11:15 <lgierth> dnslink allows /ipns/example.com

11:15 <kudaweb> ahh

11:15 <Mateon1> I wish there was a way to permanently bind your ipns address to your mfs

11:16 <kudaweb> it'd be cool to be able to access another node's files too

11:16 <kudaweb> going back to bbs kind of feel

11:16 <kudaweb> :)

11:17 <lgierth> you can `ipfs name publish $(ipfs files stat --hash /)`

11:17 <Mateon1> I guess I need to dig around in others' IPNS things again, lol

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11:17 <Mateon1> lgierth: Only in a linuxy/POSIX shell

11:17 <lgierth> hah yeah true

11:17 <lgierth> maybe a --publish flag for files commands

11:18 <Mateon1> Well, thankfully xargs exists on Windows

11:18 <Mateon1> so: ipfs files stat --hash / | xargs ipfs name publish

11:20 <kudaweb> is publishing to ipns a bit slow?

11:20 <kudaweb> ipns name publish seem to be hung

11:20 <kudaweb> ah just got through then

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11:23 <Kubuxu> kudaweb: yeah, it isn't fast

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11:26 <lgierth> Kubuxu: about resolving a gx update cascade, i was thinking: while len(reposWithChanges) > 1 { repo = somRepoWithoutChangedDeps(reposWithChanges) && commitAndPR(repo) && publish(repo) && updateHashInDependants(repo) && del(reposWithChanges, repo) }

11:27 <lgierth> to bubble up the updates through the tree

11:27 <Kubuxu> publish before PR

11:28 <lgierth> it can probably be generalized to a "just updates all things"

11:28 <lgierth> right haha

11:28 <Kubuxu> and you can have one repo updated more then one time

11:28 <lgierth> i was thinking that with this alg ^ you can bring it down to one update per repo

11:29 <lgierth> because it makes sure that all dependencies of that repo have already been updated before it gets to it

11:29 <lgierth> it gathers a list of things to update, and then goes through all of them and starts with the ones that don't depend on any other of the work items

11:29 <Kubuxu> If you walk the dep tree from the depth to root

11:29 <lgierth> yeah that's what i'm trying

11:30 <Kubuxu> that would work

11:30 <lgierth> the subset of the dep tree that we have in mr

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11:30 <Kubuxu> <3

11:30 <Kubuxu> I am already using your mr config

11:30 <lgierth> me too, loving it :)

11:30 <Kubuxu> and I can't wait for it to be fully automated

11:31 <lgierth> it's terrible yak shaving but it's gonna save us soo much time

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11:31 <Kubuxu> hmm, the tcp-transport isn't registered

11:31 <lgierth> oh that might have been after i generated it

11:32 <Kubuxu> or no

11:32 <Kubuxu> it is here

11:32 <Kubuxu> interesting

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11:33 <dignifiedquire> so it sounds like mr is pretty cool?

11:33 <lgierth> i like it

11:33 <Kubuxu> ahh

11:33 <lgierth> i like `mr run git <foo>` better than `mr foo` but otherwise it's pretty good i think

11:33 <dignifiedquire> how easy is it to add custom commands?

11:33 <lgierth> i'm not gonna tell anybody that it's written in perl

11:33 <lgierth> very

11:33 <lgierth> very easy

11:34 <Kubuxu> you can do that in the config...

11:34 <Kubuxu> lgierth: in readme for it: it is essential to run gx install over all pakcages

11:34 <lgierth> yup noticed that too a few minutes ago

11:34 <dignifiedquire> cool

11:34 <lgierth> gx deps need better error output for that :)

11:35 <dignifiedquire> going to try to do a big symlinking tomorrow :)

11:35 <lgierth> "need all deps to be present, run gx install and try again"

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11:35 <lgierth> heh what you gonna symlink

11:35 <dignifiedquire> npm dependencies, that's what eats all

11:35 <dignifiedquire> my time currently

11:36 <lgierth> i've moved from symlinking individual repos to symlinking the ipfs/ipld/multiformats/libp2p/gxed org dirs into gopath/src/github.com

11:36 <lgierth> haha

11:36 <dignifiedquire> so that local versions use each other

11:36 <dignifiedquire> rather than the ones on npm

11:36 <lgierth> oh that

11:36 <lgierth> yup

11:37 <lgierth> i spent some time making that feature work in bundler -- it was there but didn't actually work

11:37 <lgierth> a codebase held together by ducttape and acceptance tests

11:38 <dignifiedquire> it should be relative straight forward for this, if it is a local repo and in the deps list do a link, and repeat everywhere

11:38 <Kubuxu> shiet

11:39 <Kubuxu> I have just screwed up my user session.

11:39 <dignifiedquire> there is also an approach where you use a shared node_modules folder, which might be even easier

11:39 <Kubuxu> by killing ssh-agent

11:39 <dignifiedquire> Kubuxu: you keep breaking your computer;)

11:40 <Kubuxu> That is what you get for doing everything in a way it shouldn't be done

11:40 <Kubuxu> I should do: `alias pkill="echo nope"`

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11:40 <Mateon1> That's why I haven't switched to Linux yet. Ironically, it's process management that's lacking.

11:41 <Mateon1> I don't think there's a linux equivalent to Process Hacker 2

11:41 <Mateon1> (Also, OneNote, but I can use a VM for that)

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11:45 <Kubuxu> I have theory that I am semi good at fixing things because I am just awesome at breaking them

11:46 <Kubuxu> Mateon1: depending on what kind of separation you wnat

11:46 <Kubuxu> s/wnat/want

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11:46 <Kubuxu> but I am considering running my shells in lxc or something like that to prevent that

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12:06 <lgierth> Kubuxu: go-multihash doesn't even have a package.json yet :)

12:06 <lgierth> same for multicodec

12:07 <lgierth> and a couple others

12:07 <ansuz> isn't that a js thing?

12:07 <lgierth> gx uses it too

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12:08 <ansuz> interesting

12:09 <ansuz> oh, gx is whyrusleeping's thing

12:09 <ansuz> is he flying today?

12:09 <lgierth> no idea :)

12:09 <ansuz> when do you leave for Toronto?

12:09 <lgierth> but i hope so

12:09 <lgierth> ehh next week sunday i think

12:09 <ansuz> I want to visit the toronto mesh people

12:09 <lgierth> yeah 9th

12:09 <ansuz> oh, in time for thanksgiving

12:10 <lgierth> yeah i hear everything will be closed on monday

12:10 <ansuz> yea

12:10 <ansuz> you might see people waddling around

12:10 <ansuz> <3 gluttony holidays

12:11 <lgierth> hahaha

12:11 <ansuz> y'all have an airbnb or something?

12:11 <ansuz> know what part of town you'll be in?

12:12 <lgierth> some fancy hotel this time

12:12 <ansuz> marriot?

12:12 <ansuz> that would be a good one

12:12 <lgierth> lol might be

12:12 <ansuz> yonge and bloor is right near utor

12:12 <lgierth> we're doing 5 days heads down

12:12 <lgierth> and then i'm free to do w/e

12:13 <ansuz> yea, poutinery tour

12:13 <lgierth> mmmh poutine

12:13 <ansuz> I miss toronto lately

12:13 <lgierth> we still don't have at least acceptable poutine in berlin

12:13 <ansuz> fall in paris isn't as fun

12:14 <lgierth> toronto is very likable

12:15 <ansuz> especially now with toronto mesh doing things

12:15 <ansuz> that was half my motivation for coming here, more going on

12:15 <ansuz> and then they go and decentralize all the things

12:15 <lgierth> right?

12:15 <ansuz> smh

12:15 <lgierth> when i left my hometown, 5 months later my friends squatted a house

12:16 <lgierth> as if they had just waited for me to leave :P

12:16 ilmu has joined #ipfs

12:16 <ansuz> terrible

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12:17 <Kubuxu> lgierth: they have them in PR

12:17 <lgierth> then they got another house so that one could be destructed for a grass strip

12:17 <Kubuxu> we had them but not int the git tree

12:17 <lgierth> and now the third house they're in is gonna be destructed for a grass strip too

12:17 <lgierth> joke's on them lol

12:17 <Kubuxu> lgierth: you can review those RPs

12:17 <Kubuxu> PRs

12:17 <lgierth> Kubuxu: ah good to know

12:18 <lgierth> okay one thing that mr lacks, is good output control

12:18 <lgierth> it's not really easy to get `jq .name` from all repos :/

12:19 <lgierth> it writes its info output to stdout :/

12:20 <Kubuxu> there is minimal and quiet

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12:20 <Kubuxu> quiet = no output at al

12:20 <Kubuxu> and minimal doesn't do what we want

12:21 <Mateon1> What do you mean by `jq .name`?

12:21 <lgierth> getting the package name from gx's package.json

12:21 <lgierth> jq is a tool for working with json

12:22 <Mateon1> I know about hq

12:22 <Mateon1> jq*

12:22 <Mateon1> I'm pretty familiar with it

12:22 <lgierth> mr -m run sh -c 'cat package.json | jq .name'

12:22 <Kubuxu> jq .name package.json :p

12:22 <lgierth> whatevaaaa

12:22 <Mateon1> So, what's wrong with the output?

12:23 <lgierth> mr interleaves the commands' output with its own output

12:23 <lgierth> so now i can go and parse stuff :/

12:23 apiarian has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]

12:23 <lgierth> doesnt help with scripting it :)

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12:23 <lgierth> Kubuxu: as you're so smart, can you tell me a shell command for removing empty or whitespace-only lines from stdin?

12:24 <Mateon1> What about some stderr/stdout juggling?

12:24 <lgierth> Mateon1: it writes its info output to stdout :)

12:24 <Mateon1> lgierth: grep . , awk /./

12:24 <Kubuxu> grep -v '^$'

12:24 apiarian has joined #ipfs

12:25 <lgierth> mr -m run sh -c 'cat package.json | jq -r .name' | grep -v "mr run" | grep -v "package.json" | grep .

12:25 <Mateon1> . will not match line ending characters, so that removes empty lines

12:25 <Kubuxu> I figured out the go-reuseport bug

12:25 <lgierth> yay

12:25 <Kubuxu> but I don't know what is the proper way to fix it

12:25 <lgierth> thanks Mateon1, grep . fits nicely

12:26 <Kubuxu> the runner thread self locks it self

12:26 <Kubuxu> I think

12:26 <lgierth> Kubuxu: seccomp per goroutine would be nice :)

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12:26 <lgierth> nope main goroutine, you're not gonna do any networking

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12:27 <Kubuxu> I mean, the queue get so big that the runner can add onto that queue

12:27 <Kubuxu> so it waits for the queue to be freed

12:27 <Kubuxu> but it is the runner

12:27 <Kubuxu> that frees the queue

12:27 <Mateon1> I wonder how viable it is for me to singlehandedly implement IPFS in Haskell

12:28 <Mateon1> The multiformat specs are kinda buggy atm, so I'm not sure about parts of it

12:28 <lgierth> Mateon1: start with the multiformats libs :)

12:28 <lgierth> oh would be great to write issues for these problems

12:28 Guest52361[m] has joined #ipfs

12:28 <lgierth> especially for multihash as we're preparing an RFC draft for it

12:29 <Mateon1> I'm not sure whether this was fixed or not, but the issue is still open: Multihash base32

12:30 <Mateon1> Wait, not multihash but something else

12:30 <lgierth> multivase i think

12:30 <lgierth> multibase

12:30 <lgierth> about base32 padding eh

12:31 <lgierth> Kubuxu: go-multicodec-packed's package is called multiformats it seems :)

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12:33 <Mateon1> Gah, the issues with libs... A multihash lib in Haskell already exists, except it's coded in a rather crappy way (hard to use in other programs/libs)

12:34 FrozenFox has quit [Changing host]

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12:35 <lgierth> Mateon1: file issues :)

12:35 ilmu has joined #ipfs

12:35 <lgierth> ipld is also a good place to start

12:35 <lgierth> or libp2p

12:35 <lgierth> all of these are building blocks for ipfs, and also useful for other projects

12:36 <Mateon1> I'll look into the libp2p spec, but it's way more complex than the multiformats

12:36 <Mateon1> I'm not sure whether we have an actual 'multiaddr' program

12:36 <Mateon1> We have a library for the representation of multiaddresses in haskell, but that's nearly useless

12:37 <lgierth> go-multiaddr-net has a cli tool

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13:06 <Kubuxu> Ok, I know it is linux single poller code that is broken

13:06 <Kubuxu> but I don't know where

13:06 <Kubuxu> I mean I have no idea

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13:49 <richardlitt> Anyone feel like merging readme edits?

13:49 <richardlitt> lgierth? :D

13:50 <richardlitt> https://github.com/libp2p/go-libp2p-transport/pull/3

13:50 <richardlitt> https://github.com/libp2p/go-libp2p/pull/72

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13:54 <victorbjelkholm> you know your internet connection is bad when you can barely connect to irc...

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14:02 <richardlitt> :D

14:02 <richardlitt> Where are you, victorbjelkholm?

14:04 <victorbjelkholm> richardlitt, Aero, Denmark

14:04 jedahan has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]

14:04 <richardlitt> Nice.

14:04 <victorbjelkholm> small island with like 6000 people living here, with mobile internet, good stuff

14:04 <richardlitt> lgierth: Got a 504 on project-repos.ipfs.io. Not sure why?

14:04 <richardlitt> That sounds pretty nice. Why are you there?

14:04 <victorbjelkholm> can't even load google maps to show location :/

14:04 <victorbjelkholm> richardlitt, getting married!

14:04 <richardlitt> Oh yeah!

14:04 <victorbjelkholm> Tomorrow!

14:04 <richardlitt> Wooo!

14:05 <richardlitt> Exciting man. :) That's awesome.

14:05 kobigurk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]

14:05 <victorbjelkholm> Yeah, good stuff! Perfect place for it as well, super cozy here

14:05 Kane` has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]

14:05 <richardlitt> :D

14:05 <richardlitt> Do you have family there?

14:05 <victorbjelkholm> would be thinking of moving here if the internet was better and it didn't snow during the winter :p

14:05 ppham has quit [Remote host closed the connection]

14:05 <victorbjelkholm> no, just they are not very strict about documents and stuff :D

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14:09 <sdgathman> victorbjelkholm: you could organize a community wifi mesh, and a wifi link to mainland internet paid for by subscription.

14:10 <victorbjelkholm> sdgathman, not a bad idea, but think the general population on this island (have seen around 3 people under 40) would actually care

14:10 PseudoNoob has joined #ipfs

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14:11 <sdgathman> A lot of us old guys care. I still have the 1974 academic papers on the first internet nodes.

14:12 <victorbjelkholm> sdgathman, you happen to live on a remote island with 90% being "old" and caring about having good internet access?

14:13 <victorbjelkholm> Point being that I think people are content with crappy internet here, but that's just a guess so maybe I'm wrong

14:13 ashark has joined #ipfs

14:15 <sdgathman> My dad lives a remote mountain, with no broadband service. He started experimenting with some wifi links, and then a young guy decided to make it a business and negotiated the permits on mountain ridges for wifi relays.

14:16 <sdgathman> So now he serves all the remote customers in Lyons Valley via a wifi mesh, and a few links on ridges to connect with "main land".

14:17 <sdgathman> Mountains are just as effective as water at discouraging cable/fios companies.

14:18 <sdgathman> I'm working from that isolated mountain valley now - and I can see the ridge top antenna that makes it possible.

14:19 <sdgathman> Each house has a mesh router, and one or more wifi radios with parabolic antennas to connect with houses and/or the ridge.

14:20 <sdgathman> Signing up a new customer involves surveying the terrain to figure out how they are going to get line of sight to an existing customer.

14:21 <sdgathman> The customers only "see" the ethernet jack. The mesh routers are maintained by the proprietor.

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14:25 roberto__ is now known as robcat

14:25 <fleeky> sdgathman: what kind of specific hardware are you using

14:25 <fleeky> and what typical types of places are you mounting the hardware to

14:25 <sdgathman> Not me, the young proprietor.

14:26 <fleeky> just something ive been interested in designing an open source version of

14:26 <sdgathman> The routers and disk antennas are mounted on the roof of the houses.

14:26 <fleeky> so im curious what kind of feature set is usefull

14:26 <sdgathman> dish

14:26 <fleeky> ah so not natural formations

14:26 <sdgathman> The houses are isolated, with one on each local mountain peak.

14:27 <sdgathman> So I'm looking across a valley to the nearest neighbor maybe a mile away.

14:27 <fleeky> i wonder if doing stuff like that increases the chance of lightning strikes on houses

14:27 <sdgathman> The antennas all have heavy grounds.

14:27 <fleeky> so microwaves ?

14:27 <sdgathman> Yes

14:27 <fleeky> ahh

14:28 <sdgathman> One antenna is pointed at the nearest neighbor.

14:28 <fleeky> is the hardware proprietary ?

14:28 <fleeky> a friend of mine has 80 acres and we keep fantasizing about creating a mesh network ar world inside his forest

14:29 <sdgathman> They are off the shelf outdoor wifi routers, but I don't know exactly what kind of firmware he is running.

14:29 <fleeky> but we also want to build / design opensource relays from top to bottom ideally

14:29 <fleeky> ahk

14:29 <fleeky> anyways i have to do way more research on it

14:29 <sdgathman> But the feature set is similar to the (proprietary and ironically named) OpenMesh product.

14:29 <fleeky> so its nice to talk to someone who is already doing something similar

14:29 <fleeky> haha openmesh is proprietary, funnty

14:30 <Mateon1> I've recently been thinking about a community mesh network, but I have no idea how to set things up.

14:30 <fleeky> so your talking about mile+ ranges with your antennas ?

14:30 <sdgathman> OpenMesh uses the open BATMAN protocol for the mesh, and will even relay BATMAN packets for open source nodes.

14:30 <fleeky> Mateon1: in urban areas i think in a way its harder

14:30 <fleeky> due to all the other signals

14:30 <Mateon1> I mean, my home is kinda meshy, but only in a reduncancy perspective.

14:30 <fleeky> batman packets??

14:31 <fleeky> lel

14:31 <sdgathman> But the OpenMesh routers are centrally configured from the company, and refuse to operate if the global internet is down. :-(

14:31 <fleeky> sdgathman: i am really interested in designing standalone stuff that you can just place in the wilderness

14:31 <fleeky> high powered microwaves probably wouldnt work very well though

14:31 <apiarian> mikrotik!

14:31 <fleeky> since the power req would be too high for any solar / wind / hydro stuff possibly

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14:32 <r0kk3rz> sdgathman: if you think thats funny you should read the morph.is page

14:32 <sdgathman> These are not high powered microwave (back to the mountain valley).

14:32 <fleeky> sdgathman: well thats not so good

14:32 <fleeky> whats the power draw ?

14:32 <Mateon1> fleeky: Directional wifi antennas! Except in order to have bidir connection you need two of them

14:32 <Mateon1> And they are extremely expensive

14:32 <fleeky> Mateon1: pringles cans ,,,, pringles cans everywhere

14:32 <sdgathman> Yes, the mesh in this mountain valley uses directional wifi antennas.

14:33 <sdgathman> These are parabolic dishes.

14:33 <fleeky> see the cost needs to be brought down for real mesh networks to make sense

14:33 <Mateon1> Also, I read a bit on the routing protocols

14:33 <fleeky> thats where open source manufacturing could come into play

14:33 <Mateon1> It doesn't seem to me that batman is a good idea

14:33 <Mateon1> it will scale very poorly after a certain point

14:33 <fleeky> i would say dont worry about protocols

14:34 <fleeky> worry about how to create cheap hardware with lower power req first

14:34 <i[m]> Or cheap hardware with moderate power requirements?

14:34 <sdgathman> My personal project (neighborhood mesh) uses BATMAN locally, but cjdns as the overlay mesh.

14:34 <Mateon1> fleeky: Raspi zero on solar + atheros wifi adapter?

14:34 <fleeky> i[m]: yeah thats a start

14:34 <fleeky> Mateon1: yeah , in a few months i hope to start doing some experiments

14:34 <i[m]> Rpi is not hardware I would use in production for anything.

14:34 <i[m]> Oh for just a PoC?

14:35 <i[m]> That's groovy then.

14:35 <fleeky> the only problem with rpi is they have shit network performance

14:35 <i[m]> Which is a dealbreaker when talking meshnet.

14:35 <i[m]> imo

14:35 <Mateon1> Well, you won't find another board for 5 dollars + cables

14:35 <fleeky> for something like this ideally you would have a soc with gig ethernet and 5 ghz wireless stuff

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14:35 <Mateon1> Actually, just 5 dollars + microUSB cable

14:35 <fleeky> i[m]: yeah agreed

14:36 <fleeky> Mateon1: i think to just get something up and running the rpi's would be a great starting point

14:36 <fleeky> and it will definitely be one of the places i start with

14:36 <i[m]> You'd be stuck at usb2.0 network speeds.

14:36 <i[m]> iirc

14:36 <Mateon1> I wonder if my network counts as a mesh... I have a triangle in there :P

14:36 <sdgathman> A friend of mine runs a WISP in rural Virginia, and he uses Ubiquity routers for pt-to-pt wifi links, and indoor linux boxes to do the heavy routing.

14:36 <fleeky> i[m]: that said , maybe the use cases would be fine

14:37 <fleeky> also even though there is no gige in rpi , wireless modules with higher performance are available for a lot of soc's

14:37 <fleeky> also on top of all of this, you can also just bury ethernet cable everywhere

14:37 <fleeky> and then just have cheap / shitty wifi hotspots placed intelligently

14:38 <fleeky> if you are burying ethernet everywhere, you might as well also bury power lines

14:38 <Mateon1> What about PoE?

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14:38 <sdgathman> fleeky: burying ethernet cable in this mountainous region would be totally cost prohibitive.

14:38 <fleeky> and if you are doing trail making in the forest , it would be easy to bury that stuff along the trail

14:38 <i[m]> It's totally not though.

14:38 <i[m]> Cables have to be deep.

14:38 <i[m]> Which means a trencher.

14:38 <fleeky> sdgathman: just talking about all the different approaches

14:39 <i[m]> Fuck.

14:39 <fleeky> do they really have to be deep ?

14:39 <i[m]> Whoops sorry.

14:39 <i[m]> Yeah they do, fluctuations in temp will cause wear on the cables.

14:39 <i[m]> And then there's only so far you an run a cable.

14:39 <fleeky> when you are pulling water from a spring , for instance its not like the water pipes need to be super deep there are lots of possibilities

14:39 <fleeky> i[m]: yes 150 ft for cat5

14:39 <sdgathman> Buried cable works well for typical suburban tract houses.

14:40 <i[m]> Does the spring freeze?

14:40 <fleeky> but if you are building a mesh network in a forest , 150ft spaced wifi hotspots might work

14:40 <i[m]> In the US and I would think the mountains the ground would freeze up.

14:40 <sdgathman> But those tracts are usually already served by cable companies.

14:40 <i[m]> I think satellite is still king for remote internet.

14:40 <i[m]> Unfortunately.

14:41 <sdgathman> Too high latency.

14:41 <fleeky> also in terms of digging and laying cable

14:41 <fleeky> you *could* try to develop a robot that would do it for you ;)

14:41 <i[m]> sdgathman agreed but physics is a mofo.

14:41 <fleeky> i mean , why not try to make a tiny tunnel making earthworm robot at that point haha

14:41 <fleeky> could dig tunnels and lay cable at the same time,

14:42 * fleeky goes and looks for some broken power drills

14:42 <sdgathman> Attach the robot to the head of the cable, and feed it power through the cable.

14:43 <fleeky> yep

14:43 <fleeky> obviously this would be a crazy project to undertake

14:43 <fleeky> but it would be fun to play around with the idea

14:43 <fleeky> if you had a robot like that

14:43 <fleeky> you could lay ethernet / fiber whatever

14:43 <i[m]> You could rob a bank.

14:43 <fleeky> you could very quickly build whatever infrastructure you want

14:43 <i[m]> +1

14:43 pfrazee has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]

14:43 <i[m]> Then you have whatever funding you need.

14:43 <fleeky> why rob a bank when people will pay you money to use your network : )

14:44 <fleeky> .. or rob the bank, and have people pay to use your network (that would be the american way)

14:44 <i[m]> Murica

14:44 <fleeky> f'yea

14:44 <i[m]> I don't have fast internet /and/ I pay out the butt for it.

14:44 <i[m]> 1Gbps at work is amazing.

14:45 <fleeky> until people really start to think about how to build there own infrastructrues you will always have shitty things

14:45 <fleeky> tunnel bot sounds like a cool project though HMMM

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14:46 <sdgathman> You have to change the drill bits, but then the length of a cable run is limited also.

14:46 <fleeky> sure ofcourse

14:47 <fleeky> but when building a network like this, having lots of access nodes is good imo

14:47 <fleeky> also in the beginning you would probably be steering the robot yourself

14:48 <fleeky> well , i guess for a tunnel bot there wouldnt really be steering

14:48 <fleeky> it would just go straight

14:48 <i[m]> But roots, boulders etc.

14:48 <fleeky> actually no , you can get flexible drill bits

14:48 <fleeky> so actually you could have it move

14:49 <i[m]> I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.

14:49 <fleeky> there would have to be a design phase to figure out different types of drill bits and such

14:49 <i[m]> Bits are so expensive too.

14:49 robcat has quit [Quit: robcat]

14:49 <i[m]> For metalwork like lathes and what not they're really expensive.

14:49 <fleeky> laser sintering

14:50 <fleeky> thats the other more important part of stuff like this

14:50 <fleeky> open source micro manufacturing

14:50 <fleeky> there are people adapting cartesian 3d printers to do stuff like pick and place , pcb etching , assembly , on top of 3d printing

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14:51 <fleeky> that robot is probably the more important robot to build

14:51 <i[m]> Affordable pick and place machines would be fantastic.

14:51 <fleeky> i[m]: one moment

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14:51 <fleeky> http://delta.firepick.org/

14:51 <fleeky> this

14:51 <fleeky> is badass

14:52 <fleeky> shit like this is the real near term future until we get to things like molecular manufacturing haha

14:52 <i[m]> Ooooh, that is pretty sweet.

14:52 <i[m]> And you can actually /buy/ it.

14:52 <i[m]> Desktop lithography

14:53 <fleeky> yep

14:53 <fleeky> thats the future

14:54 <fleeky> that said , it probably breaks constantly haha

14:54 <i[m]> Can you imagine the failure rate? Lol

14:54 <fleeky> yeah exactly

14:54 <fleeky> but still

14:54 <i[m]> looool

14:54 <fleeky> bleeding edge ..

14:54 <i[m]> One step at a time.

14:54 <fleeky> also this hasnt been possible before at this price range ..

14:54 <fleeky> as soon as i get some space and money i will be working on this stuff

14:55 kenshyx has quit [Quit: Leaving]

14:55 <fleeky> really in the end most robots are just a bunch of copper and magnets and circuits

14:55 <fleeky> for instance i really want to make a 'dc-motor' printer

14:55 <fleeky> and then with firepick delta you can build all the potentiometers and microcontrollers you want

14:56 <fleeky> the only things you have to buy at that point are all the components like chips / caps / etc

14:56 <fleeky> and raw material

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14:57 <M-flyingzumwalt> WOAH! edsilv is serving 3D models from IPFS. Check out this sample: http://universalviewer.io/examples/?manifest=https%3A%2F%2Fipfs.io%2Fipfs%2FQmPXKbC96wb6zuUhd8m2HDoovZUqi3gFHbbL9W8vAEQX8a%2For_7694_1595.json&locale=en-GB#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0

14:57 <fleeky> watttt

14:57 <fleeky> awesome

14:57 <fleeky> new thingiverse ;)

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15:01 <dignifiedquire> M-flyingzumwalt: that's aweso

15:01 <dignifiedquire> me

15:01 <richardlitt> That is pretty cool.

15:02 <Mateon1> Well, new bug discovered

15:02 <Mateon1> The UV link only works if IPFS station is disabled

15:02 Boomerang has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]

15:03 <Mateon1> Goddamn CORS

15:03 ilmu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

15:03 <Mateon1> How do I set an ACAO header allowing everything on the public gateway part of my daemon?

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15:06 <sdgathman> I went and looked at the wifi links here. There is a small wifi device inside a weatherproof plastic housing at the focus of the antenna. It is connected via poE to a typical linux router box indoors.

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15:12 <fleeky> making the weatherproof housings is probably the easy part

15:12 <fleeky> just some silicon sealing and some half decent 3d printed enclosures will do the same

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15:14 <Mateon1> I need help, how do I properly set Gateway.HTTPHeaders? Setting it to a list of strings (["Access-Control-Allow-Origin: *"]) did nothing

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15:15 <fleeky> sounds pretty reasonable as something that could theoretically be made using diy methods

15:15 <victorbjelkholm[> Mateon1: try setting the env var API_ORIGIN to * before starting the api

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15:16 <Mateon1> Gah, how the hell does the Go type system work? I broke my config, lol

15:16 <Mateon1> But seriously, map[string][]string

15:17 <fleeky> sdgathman: hmm the banana pi actually has gig e network interface, but only one :(

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15:18 <Mateon1> Oh my god, this is maddenning

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15:19 <Mateon1> I want to debug the network with Chrome's dev tools, but it stops capturing network messages as soon as the DOM content is loaded

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15:19 <Mateon1> And as far as I can tell there is no way to change that, and I have to spam click the record button until things actually work

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15:33 <Kubuxu> whyrusleeping: why trying to debug the go-reuseport I got this race

15:33 <Kubuxu> http://hastebin.com/uxecibupah.go

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15:40 <ReactorScram> Is there any known bug where IPFS creates a lot of small files with Unicode / Chinese names

15:40 <ReactorScram> I found like 20 - 30 such files in my source code dir all with the same "date modified" and all I can think is that was when I was running IPFS yesterday

15:41 <ReactorScram> well 52 files exactly

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15:43 <Mateon1> ReactorScram: That sounds similar to the filesystem corruption I experienced on an SD card recently

15:43 <ReactorScram> :(

15:43 <ReactorScram> Well this is a hybrid drive so 1 TB spinning + small flash

15:44 <Mateon1> I had many files with weird names, unrealistic sized, invalid data, etc.

15:44 <ReactorScram> Well the sizes look okay, they're all 2 - 25 KB ish

15:44 <ReactorScram> But it's garbage binary data and the occasional Adobe XMP file

15:44 <ReactorScram> I don't use XMP anywhere in my code

15:45 <Mateon1> Well, I'm not aware of anything in IPFS that could cause that. It should only really work within it's ~/.ipfs directory

15:46 <Mateon1> Try checking for bad sectors, I'm not sure how that would work with a hybrid drive, though

15:46 <ReactorScram> there was one referencing some "webui" file and that made me wonder

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17:06 <Kubuxu> and also gogo-protobuf which is dep for 8 others

17:06 <Kubuxu> !pin QmVsHZSaohNEZrzNuBPi9z63iiJxWc2rvN4PZKqJXQ9oU5 gogo-protobuf

17:06 <pinbot> now pinning /ipfs/QmVsHZSaohNEZrzNuBPi9z63iiJxWc2rvN4PZKqJXQ9oU5

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19:14 <dignifiedquire> !pin QmWqqMtfALxjnwbVAHQ73ky7dzM1ftKyvwhBaWCcx9SwiB blog

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19:15 <dignifiedquire> !botsnack

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19:18 <lgierth> !befriend dignifiedquire

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19:18 <ansuz> !befriend ansuz

19:19 <ansuz> !pin *

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19:28 <lgierth> !befriend dignifiedquire admin

19:28 <pinbot> Hey dignifiedquire, let's be friends! You can admin

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19:37 <cubemonkey> Hey all. Wondering if I might get some input. When running "$ ipfs init", I get, "bash: /usr/local/bin/ipfs: No such file or directory" I couldn't find any code in repo which has this phrase in it.

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19:38 <ansuz_> cubemonkey: that's your system not being able to find the binary

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19:39 <cubemonkey> ansuz_: Weird, but OK. Was hoping that wasn't the case. ;-) Thanks.

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19:47 <lgierth> ansuz: the ping timeouts are following you from cjdns

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19:50 <ansuz> lgierth: things hype-side are fine

19:50 <ansuz> freenode gettin' ddos'd by internet dildos again

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19:52 <cubemonkey> lgierth: which ipfs: /usr/local/bin/ipfs

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19:53 <ansuz> maybe it's not executable?

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19:55 <lgierth> i've seen this error when the ipfs binary didn't match my system

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19:57 <cubemonkey> lgierth: yeah, that's what I thought too, but it seems to match my system: Linux li336-99 4.7.0-x86_64-linode72 #1 SMP Thu Aug 4 15:15:18 EDT 2016 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

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19:58 <cubemonkey> lgierth: file /usr/local/bin/ipfs /usr/local/bin/ipfs: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, not stripped

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20:00 <cubemonkey> ansuz: it's definitely executable - all directories are accessible to the user account as well.

20:00 <Kubuxu> cubemonkey: ldd /usr/local/bin/ipfs

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20:01 <cubemonkey> Kubuxu: not a dynamic executable

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20:02 <Kubuxu> hmm "dynamically linked" and "not a dynamic executable"

20:02 <Kubuxu> I get:linux-vdso.so.1 (0x00007ffc65e37000)

20:02 <Kubuxu> libpthread.so.0 => /usr/lib/libpthread.so.0 (0x00007f9248595000)

20:02 <Kubuxu> libc.so.6 => /usr/lib/libc.so.6 (0x00007f92481f7000)

20:02 <Kubuxu> /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007f92487b2000)

20:03 <cubemonkey> OK, weirdness... Going back to the original source to download a new copy.

20:03 <Kubuxu> which system are you using?

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20:04 <cubemonkey> Kubuxu: Linode hosted Ubuntu 16.04.1 LTS

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20:04 <Kubuxu> interesting

20:05 <lgierth> yeah weird... i've seen this error when i tried to run a glibc-linked ipfs binary in a musl system

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20:06 <Kubuxu> can you send result off: `ldd /usr/bin/true`

20:06 <cubemonkey> It's a hosted system - who knows what kind of "special features" they have going on.

20:06 <Kubuxu> s/off/of

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20:10 <cubemonkey> Kubuxu: Not at /usr/bin/true. Is in /bin/true: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 26364 Feb 18 2016 /bin/true*==nd spits the same error:

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20:10 <cubemonkey> Kubuxu: ldd: bin/true: No such file or directory

20:11 <cubemonkey> Either way - looks like it's definitely /not/ an ipfs issue.

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20:14 <cubemonkey> Kubuxu: fat finger syndrome going on today. ldd /bin/true does return a list of libraries.

20:14 <cubemonkey> linux-gate.so.1 => (0xf77bd000) libc.so.6 => /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 (0xf75f6000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x565bf000)

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20:15 <lgierth> thats glibc. you can compare these *.so paths with the ones from `ldd ipfs`

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20:15 <lgierth> or generally check that all the *.so files mentioned by ldd ipfs are present

20:16 <achin> clearly IPFS needs to power elon musk's Interplanetary Transport System

20:18 <cubemonkey> lgierth: yeah, there's no libraries listed by ldd. Says straight out, "not a dynamic executable".

20:18 <cubemonkey> Haven't tried downloading a fresh copy yet. Doing that next.

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20:28 <cubemonkey> lgierth: yup. Fresh download, fresh install, and no joy.

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20:37 <cubemonkey> OK, looks like the 386 version works, but the x64 version does not.

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20:38 <lgierth> cubemonkey: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmZdfyDTV9xcKfcPnwuCn4eFzhZojHCyp3mwXttdLqAAtQ

20:38 <cubemonkey> ooo - my first legit ipfs link..!

20:38 <lgierth> the first is v0.4.3, the second is master from a few days ago built from source

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20:39 <cubemonkey> cool, ok

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21:11 <Kubuxu> cubemonkey: for me it looks like linode gives you 32-bit subsystem (libs, loader and so on) on a 64bit machine and/or kernel

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21:14 <dignifiedquire> !pin QmWqqMtfALxjnwbVAHQ73ky7dzM1ftKyvwhBaWCcx9SwiB blog

21:14 <pinbot> now pinning /ipfs/QmWqqMtfALxjnwbVAHQ73ky7dzM1ftKyvwhBaWCcx9SwiB

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21:16 <pinbot> [host 4] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmWqqMtfALxjnwbVAHQ73ky7dzM1ftKyvwhBaWCcx9SwiB: Post http://[fc3d:9a4e:3c96:2fd2:1afa:18fe:8dd2:b602]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmWqqMtfALxjnwbVAHQ73ky7dzM1ftKyvwhBaWCcx9SwiB&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&r=true&: dial tcp [fc3d:9a4e:3c96:2fd2:1afa:18fe:8dd2:b602]:5001: getsockopt: connection timed out

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21:18 <lgierth> it's always this one host jupiter -- i'm not sure what's up with it

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21:18 <dignifiedquire> it's the sad host ;)

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21:27 <achin> do all the ipfs gateway nodes run ipv6?

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21:29 <lgierth> achin: sadly still not yet -- nobody's gotten to configuring the ipv6 addrs on most of them

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21:29 <lgierth> they do have addresses but aren't using them

21:29 <lgierth> oh or are you asking about these fc00::/8 addresses above?

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21:30 <achin> no, but that's what made me wonder about global ipv6 addresses to the gateway nodes

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21:30 <achin> and to what extent ipv6 could be a solution to ipfs users behind restrictive NATs

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21:32 <lgierth> we should start asking people with nat problems whether they have ipv6 so we can try it with someone

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21:32 <achin> i fear too many commercial ISPs are not yet supporting ipv6

21:33 <lgierth> setting up the addresses isn't that much work, nobody has gotten to it is the whole story

21:33 <lgierth> i head a few in the US are doing pretty well?

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21:33 <lgierth> there's regular state-of-ipv6 threads on HN

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21:33 <lgierth> we're still very far from critical mass :(

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21:35 <achin> my old ISP told me they aimed to have fully ipv6 country wide (i'm in the US) by october of this year

21:35 <lgierth> someone on HN suggested everybody use passive aggressive error messages like youtube does... not "can't connect", but "can't connect because your ISP doesn't support IPv6"

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21:35 <achin> but i wasn't working when i switched ISPs. my new one doesn't seem to support it (but i need to ask them directly about it)

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21:43 <flyingzumwalt> !pin QmSfrHWhaxBR3eWcjfE9K9HMZswbozSEnJzgHoZP24NT6W Facilitators-Guide-Agenda-Planning-excerpts.pdf

21:43 <pinbot> now pinning /ipfs/QmSfrHWhaxBR3eWcjfE9K9HMZswbozSEnJzgHoZP24NT6W

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21:45 <pinbot> [host 4] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmSfrHWhaxBR3eWcjfE9K9HMZswbozSEnJzgHoZP24NT6W: Post http://[fc3d:9a4e:3c96:2fd2:1afa:18fe:8dd2:b602]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmSfrHWhaxBR3eWcjfE9K9HMZswbozSEnJzgHoZP24NT6W&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&r=true&: dial tcp [fc3d:9a4e:3c96:2fd2:1afa:18fe:8dd2:b602]:5001: getsockopt: connection timed out

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21:57 <achin> boo, i just learned verizon doens't support ipv6 at all, with no public timeline. time to get my HE tunnel up and running again

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22:13 <JosiahHaswell[m]> Is there a simple way to determine whether a given node represents a directory? I'm not finding one looking through the code

22:14 <pinbot> [host 2] failed to pin /ipfs/QmWqqMtfALxjnwbVAHQ73ky7dzM1ftKyvwhBaWCcx9SwiB: 504 Gateway Time-out

22:14 <pinbot> [host 6] failed to pin /ipfs/QmWqqMtfALxjnwbVAHQ73ky7dzM1ftKyvwhBaWCcx9SwiB: 504 Gateway Time-out

22:14 <pinbot> [host 7] failed to pin /ipfs/QmWqqMtfALxjnwbVAHQ73ky7dzM1ftKyvwhBaWCcx9SwiB: 504 Gateway Time-out

22:14 <pinbot> [host 0] failed to pin /ipfs/QmWqqMtfALxjnwbVAHQ73ky7dzM1ftKyvwhBaWCcx9SwiB: 504 Gateway Time-out

22:14 <pinbot> [host 5] failed to pin /ipfs/QmWqqMtfALxjnwbVAHQ73ky7dzM1ftKyvwhBaWCcx9SwiB: 504 Gateway Time-out

22:14 <pinbot> [host 1] failed to pin /ipfs/QmWqqMtfALxjnwbVAHQ73ky7dzM1ftKyvwhBaWCcx9SwiB: 504 Gateway Time-out

22:14 <pinbot> [host 3] failed to pin /ipfs/QmWqqMtfALxjnwbVAHQ73ky7dzM1ftKyvwhBaWCcx9SwiB: 504 Gateway Time-out

22:14 <pinbot> pin 0/8 successes -- https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmWqqMtfALxjnwbVAHQ73ky7dzM1ftKyvwhBaWCcx9SwiB

22:14 <pinbot> pin 7/8 successes -- https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmSfrHWhaxBR3eWcjfE9K9HMZswbozSEnJzgHoZP24NT6W

22:14 <lgierth> JosiahHaswell[m]: in code, or on the cli? generally the data field of a directory object is a specific protobuf

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22:15 <lgierth> JosiahHaswell[m]: e.g. ipfs object data QmUNLLsPACCz1vLxQVkXqqLX5R1X345qqfHbsf67hvA3Nn

22:15 <JosiahHaswell[m]> In the code

22:15 <JosiahHaswell[m]> Ok. That'll work--thanks!

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22:16 <achin> i think you have to attempt to decode the data as a unixfs.pb.Data structure.

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22:17 <lgierth> JosiahHaswell[m]: also in go-ipfs, unixfs/io.NewDagReader() will return ErrIsDir

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22:21 <JosiahHaswell[m]> @Igierth Off the top of your head, do you know the approximate maximum size of node.data?

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22:22 <achin> in theory, unbounded

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22:23 <lgierth> const inputLimit = 2 << 20

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22:23 <lgierth> 2 MB for links+data

22:23 <JosiahHaswell[m]> Hmm. I was hoping it might be a single 8KB block with references or something

22:23 <achin> will bitswap refuse to transfer stuff larger than that, lgierth ?

22:24 <lgierth> achin: yeah, i think the maximum allowed block size is 4 MB

22:24 <achin> ahhh, very interesting. has that limit been there for a while?

22:24 <lgierth> yeah like forever. it was bumbed from 2 to 4 recently i think

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22:25 <JosiahHaswell[m]> So, determining whether a node is a directory could be a very expensive operation

22:25 <achin> ok! so this was the problem in the wikipedia experiments, i think. the nodes were wayyyy bigger than 4MB

22:25 <lgierth> note that merkledag chunking usually takes care of it

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22:25 <lgierth> lol haha yes

22:25 <achin> but we can't chunk the links

22:25 <lgierth> that, and the sheer performance hit of copying huge nodes everytime a link is added

22:26 <lgierth> achin: yeah that's what directory sharding is gonna be for

22:26 <lgierth> pending review from jbenet

22:26 <achin> so i guess it would be cool if ipfs refuses to construct a node that it knows will be un-bit-swappable

22:26 <lgierth> it does in most cases -- but not e.g. `ipfs object patch add-link`

22:27 <lgierth> and the files api also just lets you create arbitrarily large dirs

22:27 <achin> ah. i can't recall if i patched together this directory, or if i let ipfs-add make it

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22:29 <M-flyingzumwalt> !pin QmSfrHWhaxBR3eWcjfE9K9HMZswbozSEnJzgHoZP24NT6W Facilitators-Guide-Agenda-Planning-excerpts.pdf

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22:30 <JosiahHaswell[m]> Would it ruin anything to add some additional metadata about a node in, for instance NodeStat?

22:31 <lgierth> something like BytesRemaining? :)

22:31 <JosiahHaswell[m]> I was just thinking about like, node type.

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22:33 <JosiahHaswell[m]> I'm looking through the Fuse stuff right now, but it wouldn't be great if you tried to CD into a 4 Gb movie file, or something

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22:33 <JosiahHaswell[m]> And didn't have a short-circuit mechanism

22:34 <lgierth> it would just fetch the root node of that, not the whole merkledag

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22:35 <JosiahHaswell[m]> Is that what will happen if I check the protobuf's data?

22:35 <lgierth> if you already have the protobuf, you have the object

22:36 <lgierth> the bulk of the 4GB will be in child nodes (chunking)

22:36 <lgierth> ah mh, the chunking happens underneath object

22:37 <lgierth> kevina probably knows more ^

22:37 <JosiahHaswell[m]> Ok. I'll give it a try and see what happens =)

22:38 <kevina> I might, but I am not sure I am following...

22:39 <lgierth> dealing with large objects sensibly

22:39 <kevina> and the question is?

22:39 <JosiahHaswell[m]> How expensive is io.NewDagReader in the worst case?

22:40 <kevina> Not sure looking...

22:40 <JosiahHaswell[m]> Well, actually, I guess since node.data is already populated by the time you called that, whether there's a cheap way to determine if a node is a directory

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22:43 <kevina> Unfortunately, there is no cheap way, you have to download the block.

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22:43 <kevina> But if it is a huge file you don't need to download the entire file, just the first block.

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22:44 <kevina> Well in theory. I don't know what io.NewDagReader does, I have not really worked with that code.

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22:45 <JosiahHaswell[m]> Ok. I'm giving it a try on some pretty big files to see what happens. My files are usually between 100 MB and 1 GB

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22:46 <JosiahHaswell[m]> If it turns out to be a problem, would storing additional metadata in *NodeStat cause an obvious problem?

22:47 <lgierth> it depends on the metadata -- nodestat is being derived from the node itself

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22:49 <JosiahHaswell[m]> Eh. So, the real question would be how expensive dag.Get() is. Presumably you could populate at least the type (e.g. Data_Directory, Data_File, Data_Raw, etc.) upon dag.Add()

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22:50 <JosiahHaswell[m]> But since getting a node eagerly populates its data field...

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22:50 <JosiahHaswell[m]> Might be a moot point unless that behavior changes, which would require big changes everywhere

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23:45 <Physes> I was looking for feedback on this memo for Nebulis. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uthmG3Fuf5qiNFdvcKDfmfTzcltPZeneoY2LSSM5B0Y/edit?usp=sharing

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23:46 <Physes> Nebulis is a DNS which uses Ethereum and IPFS, launching on the testnet soon

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