<lgierth>
Physes: nice, will give it a read -- why not `ipfs add` it? :)
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<lgierth>
Physes: i haven't read it carefully yet, just wanted to raise there's a conflict with the ipfs: uri scheme
<lgierth>
or, potential conflict
<Physes>
I understand the conflict, that is dealt with later on in the paper
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<Physes>
However :// is technically correct. /ipfs/ is fine for pure IPFS hyperlinks since it's a file system (Unix/web harmonization) however Nebulis as a system of smart contracts is not a file system, just a way of storing domain records to tld clusters
<Physes>
no reason why both can't exist
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<lgierth>
do you mind if i ipfs add the paper? or is it still actively worked on
<Physes>
Yes it is still under review but I don't mind adding it
<lgierth>
hah thanks
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<lgierth>
bye :( i had just finished reading
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<Physes>
Back. Is it possible to stay logged in with the same account?
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<lgierth>
yeah you can use vector/matrix, or weechat/irssi in screen, or irccloud
<lgierth>
i'll be back in a few
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<Ralith1>
riot/matrix now
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<lgierth>
Physes: nebulis it sounds pretty cool -- let us know if we can help out in any way
<lgierth>
Physes: especially about browser integration
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<lgierth>
we might also have some overlap regarding the hash addressing mentioned in the second last paragraph -- we want libp2p to get a packet switched overlay network, similar to cjdns
<lgierth>
Physes: i do disagree about the usage of the ipfs uri scheme -- the semantics will be completely different from what the ipfs:/fs: schemes do, without gaining a simplification of browser integration
<lgierth>
(it's not very complete yet, most api commands are still discussed in issues)
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<dansup>
no. It looks pretty cool, would this work with CI for tests?
<lgierth>
Physes: a fs:/nebulis/ namespace would fit in nicely with how the fs:/ipfs: scheme works
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<dansup>
thanks for the star :3
<lgierth>
Physes: the use of ipfs:// is also problematic because it ties that name to one specific naming mechanism (nebulis)
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<lgierth>
Physes: to get feedback from more people it's probably best to post in the ipfs/notes repo
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<lgierth>
dansup: yeah the goal of the core api is to have a unified interface, and tests in each language. i'm working on the go side of it at the moment
<lgierth>
so the js stuff there is gonna move into a subdirectory
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<dansup>
lgierth, nice. This is exciting, I didn't know how to handle testing with this
<lgierth>
Physes: the footnote for "now archived thread [5] on Github" on page 5 is missing
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<lgierth>
dansup: i can tell you more another day :) good night
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<dansup>
lgierth, sleep well
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<Physes>
@lgierth is there any more info about the "fs" scheme?
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<JacobGadikian[m]>
yeah-- actually, to put it plainly-- I do not "get" ipfs
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<Physes>
Yes I'm looking to work with the ipfs community is on the Nebula browser
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<JacobGadikian[m]>
can anyone tell me why IPFS is awesome?
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<JacobGadikian[m]>
with my cnfusion coming from the issue of persistence
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<JacobGadikian[m]>
I'm not saying it's not awesome, but I am saying I don't get it yet
<Physes>
@JacobGadikian uses less bandwidth than HTTP, content-address instead of geographically addressed, serverless architecture so therefore more secure and immune to censorship
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<JacobGadikian[m]>
how is it immune to censorship?
<JacobGadikian[m]>
okay I now have the firefox plugin
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<JacobGadikian[m]>
so, what should I do with this what will make me go woooooow
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<ckwaldon>
JacobGadikian[m]: Locally host the XKCD archive, use it to store massive data on the Ethereum blockchain, read up on the Mango (distributed github) project, load massive open datasets, build a neocities website and make it available via IPFS, or many other things. Because IPFS is a protocol, it's hard to point to one particular thing and say that will make it awesome. I don't know how to impress someone about HTTP either, yet HTTP
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<ion>
yet HTTP$
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<ckwaldon>
ion: Did the last few words get cut off?
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<ion>
yes
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<ckwaldon>
That last sentence was meant to be: I don't know how to impress someone about HTTP either, yet HTTP built the internet.
<ion>
I don't understand why there are still IRC clients that behave as if IRC doesn't have a message length limit.
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<ckwaldon>
Mine indicated a limit, but that I had 29 chars left. I'm using the Thunderbird IRC integration, which I suppose might not be that great.
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<Physes>
"our tools will also redirect two slashes ipfs:// and fs:// though this is strictly wrong for non-authority based protocols, according to W3C rules." .. can anyone explain "non-authority based protocols"?
<Physes>
Nebulis is structured as a hierarchy with root-branch-node contracts forming a tree structure. So since this is a hierarchy the :// format seems to be correct in this context
<deltab>
"Many URI schemes include a hierarchical element for a naming authority so that governance of the name space defined by the remainder of the URI is delegated to that authority (which may, in turn, delegate it further). The generic syntax provides a common means for distinguishing an authority based on a registered name or server address, along with optional port and user information."
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<deltab>
"This specification does not mandate a particular registered name lookup technology and therefore does not restrict the syntax of reg-name beyond what is necessary for interoperability."
<Physes>
In that case the authority is the Ethereum blockchain, because authority is delegated from a central contract to cluster contracts to tld's
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<deltab>
it doesn't say what an authority can or can't be beyond syntactic requirements
<deltab>
that's up to the definer of the scheme
<deltab>
as is what it means for URLs in the scheme to have or not have authority components
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<deltab>
and some scheme, such as ftp, make it optional
<deltab>
I meant file
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<deltab>
"For example, the "file" URI scheme is defined so that no authority, an empty host, and "localhost" all mean the end-user's machine,"
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<deltab>
so "this is strictly wrong for non-authority based protocols" doesn't seem particularly meaningful
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<A124>
Good European moorning. The question is... in current scope, or shall I say state, of development, how to implement a web page, that is editable by other people, like a wiki?
<A124>
And if that is/would ever be possible using gateway also?
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<pinbot>
now pinning /ipfs/QmbzBWmF7pqHC6ZkKTfGMo7gSCPXCSydvd1NveSQQZGjqS
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<pinbot>
[host 4] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/QmbzBWmF7pqHC6ZkKTfGMo7gSCPXCSydvd1NveSQQZGjqS: Post http://[fc3d:9a4e:3c96:2fd2:1afa:18fe:8dd2:b602]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/QmbzBWmF7pqHC6ZkKTfGMo7gSCPXCSydvd1NveSQQZGjqS&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&r=true&: dial tcp [fc3d:9a4e:3c96:2fd2:1afa:18fe:8dd2:b602]:5001: getsockopt: connection timed out
<ansuz>
that means clients do all the patching on the document, and use encryption so that the server never knows what you're working on
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<ansuz>
it supports text editing (via codemirror), and wysiwyg editing (via CKEditor)
<ansuz>
and we have a working (but not deployed) version that supports exporting read-only pads (which are also updated in realtime)
<ansuz>
the link Olivier[matrix] provided seems to be backed by apache wave
<r0kk3rz>
ansuz: you need to make it store to IPFS
<ansuz>
r0kk3rz: does anyone else do that?
<ansuz>
Olivier[matrix]'s link certainly doesn't, or etherpad
<ansuz>
PRs are welcome, though :)
<r0kk3rz>
not to my knowledge, but it would be cool
<ansuz>
in the meantime, we're the only ones not spying on you :)
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<A124>
Oh Olivier is gone. The point is its not over ipfs.
<A124>
Over ipfs one could just have several nodes and all new stuff would be auto replicated.
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<ansuz>
if anyone from the ipfs community wants to work at implementing something like this, we've put in the work to understand the problem space of collaborative editing without a central authority
<ansuz>
we're the only ones
<ansuz>
that app uses apache wave, so yea, you can deliver the static files, but it's still very centralized
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<A124>
The whole problem is there is no way to keep track of the new data.
<A124>
making a tree stored on ipfs available over ipns would do that. But that is ... centralized
<A124>
There needs to be such structure supported, or a mechanism which achieves same goal
<A124>
Pubsub and using the ipfs stucture "upside-down" would do that I guess.
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<A124>
Nope it would not. It would allow linked list, but not branching the way needed for collaborative authority-less thing.
<A124>
... so backlinks in a kind of way. I saw something like that discussed already in issues, but not a word about collaborative stuff.
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<fleeky_>
mmm... what about multi user approach , where the one with the private key is root and everyone else gets essentially permission keys to edit or not based on permissions , this way anyone can have the document but if they dont have the right auth it doesnt matter
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<tkorrison[m]>
Anyone involved with py-ipfs?
<A124>
fleeky_ Good idea. The point here is resolving of the documents in the first place.
<fleeky_>
resolving in what sense
<A124>
When you can do that it would allow unlimited public branching.
<A124>
Which means one could pick any branch or autoselect deepest with highest discounted trust score
<A124>
fleeky_ How do you save something to ipfs and point to it, then update it?
<A124>
You don't. Thats the problem. Unless its ipns which is central authority.
<A124>
Which in turn means centralized
* A124
tss badum.
<fleeky_>
i thought with ipfs you build a tree of hashes for version control for instance
<fleeky_>
i could be wrong i only tangentially keep track of this stuff hah
<A124>
fleeky_ Unless I am wrong you can only build up.
<A124>
(Without changing the address) .. but then the lower ones do not include links to parents, so its worthless
<A124>
Which means there is a crucial need to backlinking, and blockchain pubsub maybe too.
<A124>
Or not blockchain, but pubsub with history.
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* A124
goes see himself out to ZeroNet, made by single developer. Where other people can actually contribute to content done by someone else.
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<lgierth>
there is backlinking -- if your tree is /ipfs/Qmfoobar, and the node your at is /ipfs/Qmfoobar/a/b/, you can do a simple ../
<lgierth>
you can't get from arbitrary hash A to arbitrary hash B
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<A124>
lgierth There is no backlinking in merkle dag
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<lgierth>
i understand what you mean, but there is one specific way of backlinking, which admittedly doesn't work for all use cases
<lgierth>
if you leverage link names, e.g. /ipfs/Qmfoobar/a, instead of discarding them and directly using a's hash, you can walk around to a certain degree, within that tree
<lgierth>
that's why e.g. the gateway's directory listings use link names
<A124>
lgierth Its unusable for colaboration
<A124>
Aka branching of a wiki.
<A124>
You add a post/modify existing, sign it with key. Then even people can build web of trust for information.
<Kubuxu>
this is very inefficient but can be optimized with jump links and so on
<A124>
Kubuxu But then I need to each time use the new hash
<Kubuxu>
you use pubsub + ipns to distribute this new hash
<A124>
ipns is central authority
<A124>
It just needs to be done.
<Kubuxu>
yes but you can create local view depending on others ipns records
<Kubuxu>
creating sort of WoT
<A124>
If IPFS wants to compete except for file storag
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<A124>
But you have to keep list of other IPNS records and update them
<Kubuxu>
WoT is huge branch of research on its own
<A124>
Kubuxu No, that does not need to get done.
<A124>
Backlinking or equivalent does
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<Kubuxu>
what do you mean precisely by backlinking?
<A124>
And if its all signed, WoT could merely be custom thing..
<A124>
Kubuxu Merkle in reverse, so you can post update to document and find update by original address
<Kubuxu>
that is possible from academia point of view
<A124>
Possible in current implementation?
<Kubuxu>
hardly possible in untrusted evil network
<A124>
Thats the point of branching
<Kubuxu>
as anyone can spam hundreds if not thousands or links to your documents
<A124>
And signing.
<Kubuxu>
when you add signing you are back to central authority
<A124>
Anyone can spam thousands comments on every board on zeronet
<A124>
Yet it works.
<Kubuxu>
because nobody has done it yet
<A124>
No, signing is done by the one that publishes the object
<A124>
That is not central, just another key of the node/identity
<Kubuxu>
there are two models of pubsub: content or topic
<A124>
You can filter people.
<Kubuxu>
content based pubsub bases on updates to given document
<A124>
As all is signed
<A124>
Is pubsub only realtime?
<A124>
Basicaly unless this is done IPFS is a failure
<Kubuxu>
topic based pubsub bases on listening to topic, the topic usually is public key but could be also just plaintext
<A124>
Except file delivery
<Kubuxu>
pubsub isn't only realtime afail
<A124>
Anyone can spam pubsub
<Kubuxu>
s/afail/afaik
<Kubuxu>
current one yes but in future it will probably be moved to fully topic based with signing and if you want topic based you have to deal with it being spammed
<Kubuxu>
I am the best person to discuss it.
<A124>
Which is the same problem
<A124>
So again fail
<lgierth>
"basically unless X is done the way i like, IPFS is a failure" :) do you have something mind how we could achieve the kind of backlinking you're looking for?
<A124>
so then people will have to implement backlinks by scanning topic and contructing it in memory
<A124>
... "smart"
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<A124>
Good point. There was talk about including that in dht
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<Kubuxu>
yup, we all spent a lot of time thinking about content based pubsub, and we all had enlightenments on how to do it, so then someone could bring us back on the earth of evil network.
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<Kubuxu>
I am not saying that it is impossible, just right now we don't know how to do it.
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<Kubuxu>
and we all would love to have it
<A124>
In my opinion a service that would be like IPNS except it would do this backlinking would be ideal
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<r0kk3rz>
Kubuxu: is there a github issue on this?
<A124>
So only for what backlinks are needed they will be published and signed.
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<computerfreak>
would be nice, if u could share the ipns private key with collaborators and use one ipns public key per topic
<A124>
Thats closed variant of what I just said, except its inherent in ipns not separate
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<Kubuxu>
computerfreak: this should be possible when we finish IPLD, multikey and keystore
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<computerfreak>
Kubuxu: cool, is there any idea how soon this will be? waiting for such thing since years :P
<A124>
Cool thing, but unless public can be part its a problem.
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<A124>
So the decentralized model is excluding web apps and platforms.
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<Kubuxu>
what do you mean by: but unless public can be part its a problem ?
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<A124>
Well, if you cannot support apps that are decentralized, it is a thing from point of traction perspective and adoption of ipfs
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<A124>
Sorry to be vague on what I say... I tend to be, sadly.
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<computerfreak>
also cool would be to have sub folders in ipns, which can be updated seperately and with additional rights. so one folder where anyone with its own ipns-key can publish too, one where only users with shared private key can post and one where only the original author can post .
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<computerfreak>
and for communicating: subscripe to ipns folder from 'sender' and link to local ipns fodler as 'receiver' and the other way around
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* Kubuxu
just updated fs:/ipns/bin.ipfs.ovh fixing few bugs, including fix to 'just text' button
<A124>
computerfreak subfolders are doable by just using hashes
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<A124>
After all, its merkle.
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<computerfreak>
A124: i know, but not with additional rights or update subfolders alone without signing full ipns again
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<computerfreak>
its not possible to add something, just al lagain
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<A124>
That is not a problem.
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<A124>
But better interface for doing so is needed yeah.
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<A124>
Technicaly its there though, except the "different keys"
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<A124>
computerfreak But there is this thing... you can have multiple keys.
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<computerfreak>
rly? multiple ipns is already here?
<A124>
So you can (I think?) point one ipns to a list of other ipns
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<M-erwin>
Question: I am currently trying to implement multistream-select in such a way that it will work in a cloud environment. I would like to use HTTP2 loadbalancing but that would not be possible as the multistream header at the beginning would not be accepted. Would it make sense to solve this by indicating in the multiaddress that the endpoint is a multistream-select HTTP2 endpoint and maybe sending an extra header indicating it
<M-erwin>
from the client side?
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<computerfreak>
so its possible to create 'moderated groups' already hm ?
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<M-erwin>
A lot of woulda's :/
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<A124>
computerfreak its not "multi" its merely generating multiple keys.
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<A124>
Thats just a feature of crypto.
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<A124>
Kubuxu To answer computerfreak thing: Can ipns point onto ipns?
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<Kubuxu>
no
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<A124>
*shucks* thanks.
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<computerfreak>
damn
<lgierth>
M-erwin: interesting, a scheme like /ip4/1.2.3.4/tcp/123/http2/and/so/on *might* work -- best to post in the multiformats/multiaddr repo to get more feedback
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<A124>
computerfreak Technically possible, but it would be delegation of trust, so not sure if a good thing to to, or such.
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<A124>
computerfreak zeronet can do all this btw.
<lgierth>
M-erwin: or mh, multistream-select sits right above the transport, so you might need http2 as a libp2p transport
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<computerfreak>
yeah i know zeronet, its nice but content is not addressed like here , and no browser-only sulution like js-ipfs
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<A124>
computerfreak there are proxies, and... a portion of people use ipfs for files.
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<M-erwin>
lgierth: Ok, that is also a solution. I am working on a project in the energy sector and we are trying to incorporate IPFS / libp2p, but we have to cut corners some times, while also trying to stay compatible in the long run
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<A124>
computerfreak for solving a lot of stuff a lot of time is needed. Till then ZeroNet does its job for messages.
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<computerfreak>
u ever heard of morph.is ?
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<computerfreak>
i di zeronet yeah , wanted to do some kind of 'sozial net' :P
<banana_>
hey is there any official lib for libp2p / ipfs for android and iOS devices?
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<jbenet>
banana_ the short answer is that you can build everything for both android and iOS, but the software is not tuned with resource constraints yet (big thing we need to do). there's mounting interest in a distribution tuned for mobile.
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<banana_>
jbenet : Hi, I am trying to implement some features that heavily rely on the lib-p2p protocl used by ipfs. I have seen a repo for kotlin (android) but not sure if its
<banana_>
support by the ipfs team.
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<jbenet>
ligi knows most about android, i think. he demoed a cool build running on android and everything. check his repos or ask him.
<jbenet>
we're going to be supporting android and iOS officially and directly after we get the resource constraints stuff in, because that's a prereq for lots of use
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<chipee>
Hi everyone! I hope everyone is doing well.
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<chipee>
I have a little question: Is know if it is possible to have an IPFS instance inside a freeBSD jail?
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<Physes>
is it possible to publish to multiple ipns keys or is it just one per node?
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<lgierth>
Physes: go-ipfs will be able to publish more than one key in the mid-term future, until then there's this little tool: github.com/whyrusleeping/ipns-pub
<Physes>
great
<Physes>
you need go installed globally for this?
<Mateon1>
Hey, I want to ask. Is it possible to connect to an IPFS peer having only the IP address, but not the peer ID?
<Mateon1>
IP+Port, not just IP
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<lgierth>
Mateon1: yes but you'll have to write code
<lgierth>
and you can't verify that the connection wasn't MitM'd
<flyingzumwalt>
!pin QmNRjXPgt4MzVorJXbs8XfGn4H1MXt6cUKpdvmhubNdwVc How Bit Torrent Replicates Files.m4v
<pinbot>
now pinning /ipfs/QmNRjXPgt4MzVorJXbs8XfGn4H1MXt6cUKpdvmhubNdwVc
<Mateon1>
I don't really care much as long as it's an actual IPFS node. If it's malicious and it doesn't serve content it doesn't really hurt me, but it might abuse the dht, don't know how bad that could be
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<Mateon1>
Assumming no unknown vulnerabilities, what's the worst thing a malicious node can do? What if it's the only node I'm connected to?
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<OstlerDev>
Hey there everyone! I have been working with IPFS for a bit of time now and I absolutely love it! I am however having issues when attempting to upload to an IPFS server when it is behind an Nginx proxy server. I get the error "net::ERR_INCOMPLETE_CHUNKED_ENCODING" when uploading to that server from a JS web interface. Does anybody in here have any ideas as to what might be wrong with either the Nginx proxy server, or with IPFS that it does
<OstlerDev>
not like being behind a proxy?
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<chipee>
exit
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<chipee>
Hi everyone,
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<lgierth>
OstlerDev: only if it's behind nginx? any special proxy_* set in the nginx conf?
<chipee>
I would apreciate if I can get some hint with seting up ipfs please.
<chipee>
ipfs init do nothing?
<OstlerDev>
lgierth I am only getting the issue when it is behind nginx. When I use the direct IP and only the http protocol it works perfectly, I am not 100% sure how our server admin setup nginx, but it masks the server to be ipfs.alexandria.io on port 443 instead of 5001
<OstlerDev>
It seems to be connecting and uploading just fine, but gives an error if the file is above I believe 50mb
<OstlerDev>
I believed it to be a limit set in the nginx config, but I am unsure, that is what I am looking through now. I just wanted to check to see if there were any know issues or bugs with IPFS being proxied behind nginx.
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<chipee>
is it possible I have installed ipfs inside a freebsd jail?
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<lgierth>
OstlerDev: eeeh better bind :8080 instead of :5001 -- the latter is the api and you very likely don't want it publicly accessible
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<lgierth>
i'm not 100 % sure how the api handles chunked encoding
<lgierth>
the gateway (:8080) should work fine with nginx
<lgierth>
there's also a limited api on :8080/api, and you can enable Gateway.Writable in the ipfs config if you want to POST stuff to :8080/ipfs
<OstlerDev>
Does posting to the gateway work just the same as the API? (or roughly similar?)
<lgierth>
you can POST /ipfs with file content, or PUT /ipfs/Qmexistingobject/link to get the same wrap-with-directory behaviour as `/api/v0/add?w`
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<lgierth>
in both cases you get a Location header on the response
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<lgierth>
the api at :5001 exposes almost all of ipfs, e.g. diagnostics commands, peers lists, etc.
<lgierth>
i can make your node connect to specific other nodes with that (or disconnect)
<lgierth>
or disallow specific nodes from connecting
<lgierth>
change the config
<lgierth>
etc. pp.
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<OstlerDev>
Yeah, using the API externally was never the solution I preferred, however it was what was requested by the boss. Is there documentation on what you are explaining to me right now about posting to /ipfs and using PUT to place it into an existing folder?
<lgierth>
OstlerDev: not yet -- we're working on extracing the gateway into its own package so that we can iterate on it faster
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<OstlerDev>
Alright, thanks for your help! I will look into the solution you provided to see if it works for us.
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<lgierth>
you can also safely tell the boss that the ipfs devs strongly discourage publicly exposing the api :)
<OstlerDev>
I just did :)
<bmoriarty>
wow cool company OstlerDev, Increasingly thinking this is a space I want to work in
<OstlerDev>
If you want to check it out more bmoriarty head over to alexandria.io
<OstlerDev>
Plenty of cool stuff and code ;)
<bmoriarty>
Yeah, I checked it out!
<OstlerDev>
We also have a Slack chat if you want to keep informed about what is going on, or if you just want to chat with other devs
<fleeky_>
apparently we should all be thinking about how to get an ipfs node to MARS now ;)
<bmoriarty>
Hmm, sounds cool! I'm going to keep exploring this space (ipfs and what it enables) before jumping in too much lol, I just found ipfs today after researching for my own product idea and finding that ipfs is very similar
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<bmoriarty>
gotta determine whether this is just a fad interest or a potential passion
<bmoriarty>
Its been a while since I felt such intrinsic motivation towards development. I *think* I'm going to try to start comtributing
<lgierth>
yay :)
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<chipee>
ls
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<kulelu88>
is IPFS VC-funded? (or the company behind it)
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<chipee>
I realy don't understand why ipfs init don't give any output?
<kvda>
where can i look up what the ipfs.io gateway does?
<chipee>
~/.ipfs is never created
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<kvda>
does 'ipfs' by itself show the command list?
<chipee>
nop
<kvda>
did you compile it from source yourself?
<kvda>
what does 'which ipfs'
<kvda>
do
<kvda>
*show
<chipee>
/sbin/ipfs
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<lgierth>
kvda: ipfs.io is just the same gateway as localhost:8080, but with nginx in front for ssl
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<kvda>
so i'm unsure about the date flow
<lgierth>
kvda: i think on freebsd the binary is called go-ipfs because ipfs is a firewall utility
<lgierth>
eeeh chipee ^
<kvda>
ah
<kvda>
so when i access a hash through the ipfs gateway the data is going through the ipfs gateway right
<lgierth>
yeah
<kvda>
how would you connect directly to ipfs without the gateway? js-ipfs-api?
<chipee>
man ipfs give the help off ipfs not the firewall
<kvda>
like what webtorrent does..
<kvda>
is that possible, or do you have to have a gateway at the moment?
<lgierth>
chipee: oh ok. so the binary itself seems to work if i understand correctly. weird then, maybe worth to file an issue. what exit code does it return with?
<lgierth>
kvda: js-ipfs is nearly ready
<chipee>
ah you are right @lgierth. I needed to rename te binary in /usr/local/bin/ipfs to /usr/local/bin/go-ipfs
<kvda>
ah great, thanks lgierth
<lgierth>
kvda: it already works browser-to-browser, but we're still working on browser-to-go-ipfs
<chipee>
thanks
<lgierth>
cheers
<kvda>
ohh excellent, browser-to-browser would already be useful
<chipee>
I would not have find alone. Thanks guys
<kvda>
nw chipee
<lgierth>
we should really be calling it go-ipfs from the start in the freebsd release
<chipee>
Sould I report that issue somewhere?
<chipee>
just to keep track and help other users
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