lgierth changed the topic of #ipfs to: go-ipfs 0.4.4 has been released with an important pinning hotfix, get it at https://dist.ipfs.io | IPFS, the InterPlanetary FileSystem: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs | FAQ: https://git.io/voEh8 | Logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/ipfs/ | Code of Conduct: https://git.io/vVBS0 | Sprints: https://git.io/voEAh
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<whyrusleeping> It was less bumpy
<kevina> whyrusleeping: :)
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<kevina> whyrusleeping: where are you now? back home?
<whyrusleeping> at my parents place in idaho for the weekend
<whyrusleeping> i'll be home home sunday night
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<kevina> oh, well i hope enjoy the visit
<kevina> you seam to travel a lot :)
<whyrusleeping> haha, this is true
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<haad> !pin QmeopHJYWMfFiiFzJm2dEk4SqCb7Jxb2aWTCs3TEfWBGnV orbit-id
<pinbot> now pinning /ipfs/QmeopHJYWMfFiiFzJm2dEk4SqCb7Jxb2aWTCs3TEfWBGnV
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<dignifiedquire> hey haad are you back?
<haad> dignifiedquire: nope. still on holidays.
<haad> dignifiedquire: doing stuff for fun today ;)
<dignifiedquire> just some holiday pinning? ;)
<haad> yup!
<dignifiedquire> did you stay home or did you go somewhere?
<haad> I'm in the North
<dignifiedquire> the cold north?
<haad> not too cold. got some snow yesterday but it melted away last night.
<haad> been mainly just inside, having a fire and chilling.
<haad> looking forward to get back to work again :)
<dignifiedquire> :D
<dignifiedquire> that's the spirit, on holidays and already looking forward to work again
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<dignifiedquire> do you think you could help me on Monday to get the orbit-db sync in anno ready? Matt and I would love to demo it at the sprint
<haad> dignifiedquire: I can try to help you yeah but can't do code for you. I think what the problem was (when I checked it last week) was the pubsub setup/connections, ie. the peers were not connected so the db syncs didn't happen.
<dignifiedquire> that's fine, just will need some help debugging, as I'm not getting errors, it just doesn't sync between two nodes, even if I explicitly connect them
<haad> dignifiedquire: I'm seeing the same behavior in orbit (playing with bots and trying to improve the connectivity), peers don't seem to connect in a deterministic way but sometimes they do and sometimes it takes ages for them to connect.
<dignifiedquire> so maybe a more fundamental issue in the go-ipfs implementation?
<haad> dignifiedquire: hmmm, if you've explicitly connect them then they *should* sync. you were using some custom version of js-ipfs-api, so I would recommend to first start by switching that to one that orbit uses. a useful debug log message is in OrbitDB.js/_onMessage() (commented out). if that log message fires, then it means pubsub is working fine and problem is in orbitdb, if not then it's connectivity/pubsub.
<dignifiedquire> okay, will test that out
<haad> dignifiedquire: I don't think it's a fundamental issue in go-ipfs, prolly just how the peer discovery works for pubsub (although I don't know how exactly that happens, whyrusleeping can tell more)
<dignifiedquire> I see
<dignifiedquire> did you push the fs fixes somehwere you were talking about before you left?
<haad> dignifiedquire: it might also have something to do with running two local nodes, so make sure you have two peers using separate ipfs data dirs and on different ports. that said, I've seen behavior where teo local nodes take > 1min to connect to each other, so...
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<haad> dignifiedquire: I fixed that history loading bug so the latest orbi-db module is what you should use (0.13.5)
<haad> dignifiedquire: are you working on it today?
<haad> like right now?
<daviddias> lindybrits: that should not fail though
<daviddias> need to check that again
<dignifiedquire> a wild daviddias appears
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<haad> \o/
<daviddias> hey hey o/ :)
<dignifiedquire> haad: well I want it to work on Monday evening, so I might do some work on it righ tnow
<dignifiedquire> hey daviddias \o
<dignifiedquire> I fixed your code ;)
<haad> dignifiedquire: what the heck, let's get it working together. it's Fun Stuff(tm) so I'll help you :)
<daviddias> the unixfsengine?
<dignifiedquire> daviddias: yes
<dignifiedquire> haad: cool :) but don't want to pressure you into anything
<daviddias> thank you :)
* daviddias flying today, will be half around
<dignifiedquire> were are you flying to this time?
<lindybrits> daviddias: I am having the same problem again this morning. I can't get any information out of a large file. Keeps telling me 'Error: This dag node is a directory'
<lindybrits> Morning all! :)
<dignifiedquire> good morning lindybrits
<dignifiedquire> daviddias: npm cloning is running again since yesterday, now it acutally stores the data in ipfs :D and does sha checksums after download :)
<haad> dignifiedquire: would it be possible to make aano use ipfs-daemon module I did? that one contains all the right versions of go-ipfs (go-ipfs-dep@floodsub-2), js-ipfsd-ctl and js-ipfs-api
<dignifiedquire> haad: that doesn't work on windows currently
<haad> dignifiedquire: are you on windows? :O
<dignifiedquire> no but one of the devs from IIIF is
<haad> dignifiedquire: I can pull in the PR that edsilv did to make it work in windows
<dignifiedquire> I already made a PR to your repos
<haad> oh
<dignifiedquire> pulling in those windows fixes
<haad> didn't see that
<dignifiedquire> so if we can get those in I should be able to switch to use ipfs-daemon
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<haad> dignifiedquire: got it. yeah I can merge those before monday so that it work on windows.
<edsilv[m]> haad (IRC): there's also this PR: https://github.com/ipfs/js-ipfsd-ctl/pull/112
<dignifiedquire> cool
<dignifiedquire> hey edsilv[m] how are things?
<edsilv[m]> dignifiedquire (IRC): good! how are you?
<dignifiedquire> pretty good :) trying to squash ALL THE BUGS
<edsilv[m]> :-)
<edsilv[m]> had a nice day in amsterdam afte rthe hague with drew and matt
<dignifiedquire> nice :)
<dignifiedquire> and now back home?
<haad> edsilv[m]: can't use that atm as 0.4.4 doesn't contain pubsub (there's a custom bin for that, version floodsub-2)
<haad> edsilv[m]: but eventually yeah
<edsilv[m]> still in amsterdam - my partner sophie is at the netherlands film academy so I spend a lot of time here
<haad> edsilv[m]: btw saw blokdust the other day, that's you right? it looks awesome!
<edsilv[m]> haad (IRC): yeah! plus Luke Twyman and Luke Phillips
<edsilv[m]> I want to make an electron version with IPFS as data store at some point
<edsilv[m]> would be awesome
<haad> absolutely
<haad> edsilv[m]: would it make sense to make it multi-user, as in real-time collaborative?
<edsilv[m]> that would definitely be cool
<haad> edsilv[m]: cool. let's get the anno demo to show the power of real-time collab and perhaps you'll get an idea how to do that in blokdust in a similar fashion.
<edsilv[m]> yeah - excited about anno
<edsilv[m]> and orbit, and everything basically
<haad> :D
<haad> haha yeah, me too! so many cool things happening in the IPFS realm
<haad> and things are finally starting to work in a good way
<edsilv[m]> btw, was thinking that the linux subsystem for windows could be an option for windows 10 users
<edsilv[m]> it's basically ubuntu on windows
<dignifiedquire> haad: this is what I get when using orbit-db@latest, haadcode/js-ipf-api and ipfs-daemon
<dignifiedquire> oh I just realized the default settings of ipfs-daemon don't enable cors
<haad> dignifiedquire: CORS
<haad> dignifiedquire: yeah
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<haad> dignifiedquire: you can pass in the CORS settings to ipfs-daemon like this https://github.com/haadcode/ipfs-daemon#options
<dignifiedquire> 👍
<dignifiedquire> haad: now just getting the "orbitdb.min.js:32 Uncaught (in promise) TypeError: Cannot read property 'root' of null"
<Polychrome[m]> About pub/sub, I've been sitting on Google and looking for documentation for awhile - still not quite sure that I understand how it would work on IPFS: I understand that it can be used to subscribe to 'update' events, but what do the events describe? A change in a file? Won't changing a file cause it to get a new hash entirely? Or does this means you can subscribe to a 'parent' hash that contains multiple files that can
<Polychrome[m]> change? etc'.
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<haad> dignifiedquire: argh, that's the fs module, need to init it :/ hold on, I'll dig up an example
<dignifiedquire> Polychrome[m]: most of the info around pubsub is collected here: https://github.com/libp2p/pubsub
<haad> Polychrome[m]: in short: you can send any data over pubsub. "ipfs pubsub pub <topic> <data>", eg ipfs pubsub pub hello "this is the data"
<Polychrome[m]> So this moves IPFS away from being just a P2P file distribution system into being able to send arbitrary data coupled to event broadcasts.
<haad> dignifiedquire: did that ^ work for the error?
<dignifiedquire> haad: still the same error, I'm guessing because the instance I have in my script is a different than in the minified file?
<Polychrome[m]> Meaning I could use this to put a chat system or even a multiuser game over IPFS.
<haad> Polychrome[m]: correct, that's why it's in libp2p project
<Polychrome[m]> Interesting~
<haad> dignifiedquire: yup, make sure to have orbitdb in vendor/
<dignifiedquire> but how dow I access the "fs" that is inside orbit db to initalize it
<dignifiedquire> or should I pass my fs instance to orbitdb?
<haad> Polychrome[m]: for a chat system, we have been working on Orbit https://github.com/haadcode/orbit, you might want to check that out if you're interested in that kind of stuff
<Polychrome[m]> Thanks!
<haad> dignifiedquire: hmmm... I do it globally in orbit, ie. webpack takes care of it
<dignifiedquire> right, I'm trying to use the dist file
<dignifiedquire> this html5-fs module is really annying
<haad> dignifiedquire: right. shit, that won't work for you then I guess :/
<haad> dignifiedquire: hmmm, perhaps html5-fs and the init code should be included in the dist file of orbitdb?
<dignifiedquire> yeah, so I'm thinking you could have two `cache.js` files, one for the browser and for node
<dignifiedquire> and then add the `browser:`mapping in package.json
<haad> dignifiedquire: this is a huge pain in the ass, the fact that there's absolutely no good way to do fs in browser+node
<dignifiedquire> haad: you could use the same modules we use in js ipfs
<haad> dignifiedquire: I tried wy back but there was something that didn't work so I ended up using what's there now
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<Polychrome[m]> I'm guessing this won't be good enough for a shooter game but for anything that has more casual movement where it needs to be fluid but mishaps are negligible..
<haad> dignifiedquire: let me try to fix that in orbit-db so that the dist bundle includes the init code (ie. dist/ is for browser, src/ is for node). meanwhile, to get further you can try to disable the fs.write/read lines from the dist file (note that that would disable the history loading but at least you can try if pubsub works)
<dignifiedquire> haad: I'm just testing out if I can get the the modules from js-ipfs to work :)
<haad> Polychrome[m]: the goal is to make pubsub fast enough for a shooter, or video conf, or whatever. eventually though, it's definitely not shooter-fast yet.
<dignifiedquire> currently waiting for a fresh npm install on orbit-db :D
<haad> dignifiedquire: what are the modules in js-ipfs for fs?
<dignifiedquire> fs-pull-blob-store and idb-pull-blob-store
<geoah> Morning all! :) I was wondering if you know of any working being done to use libp2p for graph/log replication between specific peers.
<geoah> I'm trying to find a way to share structured data between nodes in a way where they can be updated (using append only logs).
<haad> dignifiedquire: right, I don't want to have those as deps in orbit-db :/
<geoah> Something like orbit-db but only sharing data with specific peers and keeping them up to date. In theory something like an append-only log for each one-way peer-peer relation.
<geoah> I'm trying to write up some docs about this, but before I dig myself too deep I wanted to ask if I'm missing an already ongoing attempt at this.
<dignifiedquire> haad: they are probably smaller than html5-fs
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<dignifiedquire> got all tests passing :)
<haad> geoah: right now there's no support for that in orbit-db but you could do it couple of ways: 1) use a pubsub topic (ie. orbit-db database name) that is unique to those two peers or b) replace orbit-db-pubsub with one-peer-to-one-peer mechanism or c) use the specific orbit-db data stores or ipfs-log and manually call .sync()/.join() to merge the database between two peers. does that make sense?
<haad> dignifiedquire: push! show me the code! :)
<dignifiedquire> :D
<dignifiedquire> haad: just making sure the build runs
<haad> k
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<dignifiedquire> haad: could you please merge this? https://github.com/haadcode/logplease/pull/4
<Polychrome[m]> haad, well if its good enough for a game that doesnt need milisecond reactions, it should be fine for now :D
<haad> dignifiedquire: can you rebase that against master first?
<dignifiedquire> haad: done
<haad> Polychrome[m]: yeah, for that use case it'll work today.
<Polychrome[m]> Now to get this working with Unity...
<haad> dignifiedquire: merged, will publish an updated version as soon as npm i finishes...
<dignifiedquire> so tomorrow?
<geoah> haad: I need to dig a bit deeper into ipfs-log but I think it makes sense! :D I'll dig a bit deeper into the orbit spec/implementation thanks! :)
<geoah> haad: orbit is currently js only right?
<haad> Polychrome[m]: ooooh! you working in Unity with this? I'd be more than happy to help you to get it working. used to work in Unity *a lot* (ex-game dev here)
<haad> geoah: correct. there's a (start of) go implementation here https://github.com/keks/go-ipfs-colog but I'm not sure how usable it is atm
<dignifiedquire> haad: there is da code https://github.com/haadcode/orbit-db/pull/134
<Polychrome[m]> Unity is my preferred platform for game development, yes :) Help to get the lib running with this would be very appreciated.
<geoah> haad: awesome thanks -- I still have some issues regarding how the permissions will look like in the graph and I'll get on orbit ;) thanks :D
<haad> dignifiedquire: "bundle.js:425 Uncaught TypeError: fs.openSync is not a function" :/ let me see what's going on... using webpack2-beta.25, that should support the "browser" field right?
<dignifiedquire> you will need that new logplease version
<dignifiedquire> or you mean when building logplease?
<haad> Polychrome[m]: Unity <3 :)
<haad> dignifiedquire: after build + running the examples
<haad> dignifiedquire: ...in the browser
<dignifiedquire> hmm that's odd it was fine before, let me check
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<dignifiedquire> -.- I am an idiot
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<dignifiedquire> sorry about that
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<dignifiedquire> making a new pr
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<haad> k
<dignifiedquire> this fixed the example for me
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<haad> dignifiedquire: thank you! published 1.2.9
<dignifiedquire> sweet
<lindybrits> subl
<dignifiedquire> haad: got anno loading without errors with the blob-store pr above
<lindybrits> wrong screen meh
<dignifiedquire> lindybrits: irc does not proxy to the terminal yet
<dignifiedquire> ;)
<lindybrits> hahaha :)
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<haad> dignifiedquire: cool! what's the next error? :)
<dignifiedquire> no error, but it doesn't persist after a refresh currently
<haad> right...
<dignifiedquire> trying to figure out if that is a bug in the cache or somewhere else
<dignifiedquire> okay found it, bug in my cache changes
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<haad> dignifiedquire: does it work now on refresh?
<haad> dignifiedquire: I got html5-fs working in the orbit-db distributable also.
<haad> dignifiedquire: gonna make a release with that and check your PR later and decide if I wanna keep html5-fs or switch to the blob-store stuff
<Polychrome[m]> haad: silly question, since I haven't used IPFS for anything past sharing files via terminal - do I need libp2p in C# for Unity integration? Or is there some other clever way to get this working?
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<haad> Polychrome[m]: tbh I have no idea. I guess you can include the ipfs.js distributable file and that comes with libp2p.
<Polychrome[m]> Suppose I could give javascript a shot.
<haad> Polychrome[m]: but then you can't use ipfs via C# I suppose but have to use js to call it (not sure if Unity has some C#<-->JS interop these days)
<Polychrome[m]> I've never really touched javascript on Unity so I wouldn't know! Sticked with C# pretty firmly there.
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<haad> I miss C#...
<haad> been writing JS exclusively for some time now, and ~50% of my time goes to solve issues with the environment and NOT writing actual code...
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<dignifiedquire> oh boy
<dignifiedquire> I forgot to actualy load the cache after retrieving it form disk :D
<dignifiedquire> haad: sweet, now loading from cache :)
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<dignifiedquire> haad: wanna try syncing between two machines?
<dignifiedquire> haad: but, but js makes you soooo productive
<haad> ;)
<haad> dignifiedquire: cool! yeah let's try to get us both connected. does it show the annotation changes in real-time now?
<dignifiedquire> no not yet, but it should log to the console when new data comes in
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<haad> k
<haad> dignifiedquire: does the latest commit have all the changes?
<dignifiedquire> haad: yes, just that I have it linked to my orbit-db fork with blob-store
<haad> dignifiedquire: ok that's fine, I think I can use my local version too
<haad> dignifiedquire: pulled and I can see the annotations on refresh
<dignifiedquire> that's sth
<dignifiedquire> can you see mine?
<haad> (using my local version of orbit-db though, with html5-fs but that doesn't really matter)
<haad> dignifiedquire: I press the big plus at the beginnig, use the first page and draw a circle. on refresh there's no items at the beginning and I have to do the same but this time the annotation I added is there. is that the expected result?
<dignifiedquire> yes
<dignifiedquire> only that it should show you mine
<dignifiedquire> but it seems there is no sync happening between us
<haad> dignifiedquire: we're prolly not connected
<dignifiedquire> what's your id?
<A124> You testing orbit(-db)? If I can help, just tell me.
<dignifiedquire> A124: still very much in the debugging phase, will let you know if there is sth to do :9
<dignifiedquire> :)
<dignifiedquire> haad: ^^
<haad> dignifiedquire: /ip4/84.240.116.18/tcp/4002/ipfs/QmepB35hRuiji9DSzADHofvycwMGhTsGxPEF6v6YymH3NA
<dignifiedquire> failed to connect :'(
<haad> dignifiedquire: whatÃ?s yours?
<haad> dignifiedquire: I can sync the changes between two peers locally now
<dignifiedquire> /ip4/46.5.20.17/tcp/4001/ipfs/QmNQULYGdUptRUGwUjYP1pQDdvqCrVosWisqp5QaF783iV
<dignifiedquire> haad: that's cool
<dignifiedquire> so it works if the clients are connected at least
<haad> dignifiedquire: seeing the "synchronized" and "data" events
<dignifiedquire> and is the contente there when you refresh? from the other side?
<haad> dignifiedquire: can't connect to you either :/
<haad> dignifiedquire: yup!
<dignifiedquire> schweet
<haad> dignifiedquire: I created server2.js which is the same as server.js but with 5002 as port(s)
<dignifiedquire> nice
<dignifiedquire> you can use /#5002 to connect to it
<dignifiedquire> you saw that probably
<haad> dignifiedquire: also, add: res.ipfs.id().then((id) => console.log(id)) to the then after initializing the daemon (and add res to the function signature of then) so you can easily get your daemon id
<haad> dignifiedquire: yup! using #5002 to connect to the other daemon's UI
<dignifiedquire> sounds good
<haad> dignifiedquire: ok. what's the next step? refresh the UI on "data" event?
<haad> ...so that we can see the changes in real-time (at least locally)
<dignifiedquire> yes
<haad> dignifiedquire: let me know when I can pull.
<dignifiedquire> will, do, need to figure out how to tell mirandor to refresh
<haad> A124: if you want to help me testing Orbit, you could clone haadcode/orbit-textui and hop on, see if we can connect
<r0kk3rz> haad: irssi-alike ui, nice :D
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<haad> :)
<haad> irssi 4ever <3
<r0kk3rz> i dropped it for weechat a while ago, but whatever :P
<haad> yeah, can understand, it's not the easiest/best ux but you know, been using it too long to switch
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<r0kk3rz> it looks like a nice minimal orbit example though
<haad> whyrusleeping: I'm working on improving peer discovery/connectivity for orbit atm. I did a hack where I make the clients request a certain object (hash) from the network on connect. not sure if that helps. is there anything I (or you) can do to speed up the peer discovery for pubsub or otherwise?
<haad> r0kk3rz: I did a quick even more minimal example yesterday: https://github.com/haadcode/orbit-bot/blob/master/index.js. hope that helps.
<r0kk3rz> even smaller, excellent
<dignifiedquire> haad: just pushed a commit that makes syncing show up
<dignifiedquire> there is no refresh on the same image, but if you use the navigation arrows to go back and forth new ones will sho up
<dignifiedquire> *show
<dignifiedquire> edsilv[m]: what was Andrews irc nick again?
<dignifiedquire> ah right he is probably asleep
<edsilv[m]> dignifiedquire (IRC):
<edsilv[m]> aeschylus
<haad> dignifiedquire: will pull
<haad> dignifiedquire: works! I only need to toggle the annotations on/off
<dignifiedquire> :)
<haad> dignifiedquire: this is extremely cool! \o/
<dignifiedquire> yes
<haad> the amazing part is that this is some existing db thingy that just takes orbit-db as its backend and things work
<dignifiedquire> edsilv[m]: ^^
<dignifiedquire> haad: yes you did an awesome job making orbit-db so generic
<dignifiedquire> we just need to make sure it's easier to use for people and well documented and then it will be super easy for developers to replace their databases with orbit-db
<dignifiedquire> and just like that migrate to ipfs
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<haad> dignifiedquire: yup! docs will be one of the first things I'll do once I'm back
<edsilv[m]> amazing!
<dignifiedquire> haad: it would be great if we can align on api docs to use the same thing for js-ipfs and the orbit ecosystem
<haad> dignifiedquire: let's get it update in real-time?! ;)
<haad> dignifiedquire: I've been thinking documentation.js, it looks pretty :)
<dignifiedquire> haad: yes me too, I'm planning on making a custom ipfs theme for it though
<dignifiedquire> so if you just write jsdoc for orbit-db you can use that then :)
<haad> yup
<dignifiedquire> haad: I don't know how to make mirandor do that, it might not even be able to currently
<haad> oh ok
<dignifiedquire> aeschylus should hopefully come online later this afternoon and he should be able to tell us
<dignifiedquire> haad: going to some other stuff now, one thing I would love to do is wrap what I have now into an electron app, so it's easiert to use
<dignifiedquire> so I might look into that next week
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<haad> dignifiedquire: ok. ping me if you manage to make it real-time today.
<dignifiedquire> haad: I shall scream it from the roof
<haad> :)
<dignifiedquire> and thank you for all the help :)
<haad> np, like said this is the fun stuff :)
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<mib_27s812> how does one tell the daemon to always dht-provide some hashes on startup?
<mib_27s812> it seems to forget on restart...
<haad> mib_27s812: 'ipfs dht provide <key>' might help you
<mib_27s812> I am asking how do I make the above sticky
<mib_27s812> i.e. to srvive server reboots and whatnot
<haad> not sure if that's possible via configs etc. you might have to script it/do it programmatically atm...
<haad> mib_27s812: wanna open an issue in ipfs/go-ipfs and ask/request it as a feature?
<mib_27s812> understood, will do in a bit
<mib_27s812> thanks!
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<r0kk3rz> dignifiedquire: that looks very cool :D
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<kegsay> Restarting the matrix.org freenode bridge again. Apologies for the disruption.
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<A124> Please someone fix the gateways.
<A124> Put there a timeout. For example even a non valid hash just waits forever: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/HASH
<A124> Which is kind of a deal for public gateway.
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<A124> I agree it should be handled client side, but in some cases sadly is not, so conflicted about this.
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<lgierth> there has been a timeout of 30min for over a year
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<A124> Not sure what to reply even. HTTP sucks. HTTP/2 sucks less.
<A124> Any info about the Discourse?
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<Mateon1> A124: If I recall correctly, ipfs.io stops the connection after 30 minutes
<Mateon1> Also, shouldn't `/ipfs/HASH` throw imediately due to invalid format?
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<Mateon1> Yup
<lgierth> Kubuxu: got any clue about the merkledag.Node => ipld-node.Node switch?
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<lgierth> I'm wondering where to find the struct that fulfills the ipld-node.Node interface
<lgierth> ah yep that would still be merkledag.Node
<lgierth> good good
<lgierth> eeh merkledag.ProtoNode
<lgierth> eeh merkledag.ProtoNode
<lgierth> oops
<hsanjuan> kubuxu: im confused about your comment https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/pull/3325#issuecomment-256895264 . What is protobuffed right now? I see that when `ipfs add file` the data in the DAG object is protobuf'ed at least.
<Kubuxu> you have first layer of protobuf, that is {Data, Links[] }
<Kubuxu> and then second that describes unixfs
<Kubuxu> IIRC
<lgierth> yes
<lgierth> unixfs is a protobuf-encoded data structure on top of merkledag
<Kubuxu> the old protobuf-unixfs format, and IPLD can coexist with CIDs
<lgierth> afaik we don't have any other unixfs so far
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<lgierth> Kubuxu: yes but that doesn't touch unixfs
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<hsanjuan> let me change the question. What is hello world! encoded as above?
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<lgierth> unixfs protobuf
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<Kubuxu> ahh
<lgierth> with type=file i guess
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<Kubuxu> you responded it yourself, it was re: Kubuxu: got any clue about the merkledag.Node => ipld-node.Node switch?
<lgierth> ah heh, yep
<Kubuxu> hsanjuan: the Data in that is protobuf
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<Kubuxu> you can also do: ipfs block get on the same hash
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<Kubuxu> to see one more layer of wrappinng
<lgierth> i already figured that out :) it's still merkledag.ProtoNode which now fulfills the new ipld-node.Node interface
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<Kubuxu> hsanjuan: this is .proto of what you see in Data over there: https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/blob/master/unixfs/pb/unixfs.proto
<hsanjuan> kubuxu: block get doesn't really show other than the Data. So if I understand right, you say that encoding the Data is the only thing protobuf is used for?
<Kubuxu> and this is .proto of the whole object you sent: https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/blob/master/merkledag/pb/merkledag.proto you can see binary format if you use `ipfs block ...`
<Kubuxu> and unixfs.proto is stored inside merkledag.proto/Data
<hsanjuan> kubuxu: ok, is it called unixfs because in the end IPFS can simulate a unix filesystem or bc there is something unix-specific that im missing?
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<Kubuxu> the first one
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<Kubuxu> it is just an fs, I don't really know why it was called unixfs
<mib_d867f6ac> when one feeds a protobuf to `protobuf_producer | ipfs object put --inputenc=protobuf` the resulting hash is of the data parsed and reassembled in an order not necessarily matching what the producer supplied on stdout
<mib_d867f6ac> therefore the resulting base58 does not match
<mib_d867f6ac> is there a way to disable this, or the producer needs to essentially mimic what ipfs-go does?
<lgierth> mib_d867f6ac: are you using merkledag/pb/merkledag.proto?
<hsanjuan> kubuxu: so in the end the idea of that pull request is to be able to replace what now uses merkledag.proto with cbor?
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<hsanjuan> i mean, to offer it as an option
<mib_d867f6ac> lgierth: yes, but the producer library I use orders things by "id" in the stream, instead of how they appear in the protofile
<mib_d867f6ac> lgierth: so data comes first, and links come second
<Kubuxu> yes, offer as an option, but not for unixfs AFAIK
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<lgierth> mib_d867f6ac: that is a problem then :)
<Kubuxu> just for `ipfs dag` command
<mib_d867f6ac> lgierth: right, so I guess I will have to do some frame reordering myself, or fix the library, or something
<hsanjuan> kubuxu: whats the difference between `ipfs object` (which manipulates DAG objects) and `ipfs dag`?
<lgierth> Kubuxu hsanjuan: yes unixfs will still be protobuf, only merkledag is replaced by ipld+(cbor|x)
<mib_d867f6ac> lgierth: but tldr: ipfs-go will output fields in exactly the order they are specified in the corresponding .proto files yes? i.e. links first data second
<mib_d867f6ac> ?
<hsanjuan> kubuxu: is just the way of saying that `ipfs dag` deals with objects following the "new" IPLD format?
<lgierth> mib_d867f6ac: eeh i'm not 100% sure. best to check with `ipfs block get <hash>``
<mib_d867f6ac> errr s/output/calculate the final hash based on/
<Kubuxu> hsanjuan: `ipfs object` calls does calls very specific for the old format
<mib_d867f6ac> lgierth: this is the behavior I am observing right now, I am more asking is this stuff stable
<mib_d867f6ac> I want to produce a graph of objects entirely outside of ipfs and only feed it the result object by object
<Kubuxu> current object format is `Links[], Data`, and `ipfs object` is prepared only for that
<Kubuxu> `ipfs dag` is being created with IPLD in mind, where links can be anywhere and so on.
<lgierth> mib_d867f6ac: maybe it's best if you build ipld instead of a merkledag structure (merkledag = links+data as protobuf)
<lgierth> then you also don't need to produce protobufs
<mib_d867f6ac> but ipld is still in development right?
<mib_d867f6ac> I wanted to play with stuff that already works ( i.e. can be browsed via ipfs.io/ipfs/...
<lgierth> the integration with go-ipfs is in development, ipld itself is pretty solid
<lgierth> mib_d867f6ac: you can't even browse any non-unixfs structure build off merkledag
<mib_d867f6ac> I am aware - this is what I am building ;)
<lgierth> you can through the api though, ipfs.io/api/v0/andsoon
<lgierth> interesting, making the gateway able to handle non-unixfs stuff?
<mib_d867f6ac> no
<mib_d867f6ac> I am building a unixfs-defined DAG, but entirely outside of ipfs itself
<mib_d867f6ac> again - because of the already-available ecosystem
<lgierth> aah i see
<lgierth> then you need protobuf one way or the other
<Kubuxu> mib_d867f6ac: ipfs object put adds wrapping
<lgierth> back to the compatibility question: merkledag and unixfs aren't gonna change and aren't gonna go away
<Kubuxu> I think
<hsanjuan> ok thanks kubuxu! :)
<Kubuxu> or not
<mib_d867f6ac> correct, and while semantically my protobufs are exact replicas
<Kubuxu> sorry it does
<mib_d867f6ac> the wire-frame order turned out to vary
<mib_d867f6ac> so I am making sure that what ipfs-go does is essentially set-in-stone
<mib_d867f6ac> which... I guess it has to be, otherwise all preexisting links will break
<Kubuxu> yeah, we are reparsing it, which will change the order
<lgierth> i'm gonna say if it changes, that's a breakage of user space and thus a bug
<mib_d867f6ac> Kubuxu: right, also links say that both size and name are optional
<mib_d867f6ac> but the re-wrapping adds in a name of "" and a size even if I didn't supply it
<mib_d867f6ac> so I had to match that too
<mib_d867f6ac> the re-parsing makes things way more involved than I originally expceted ;)
<lgierth> mib_d867f6ac: it'd be super cool if you could write up your findings -- how to construct a unixfs merkledag compatible with ipfs
<Kubuxu> the current format wasn't designed to be general purpose
<Kubuxu> that is why we are implementing IPLD currently
<mib_d867f6ac> right - and when it is all done and settled, and the gateways understand it: I will switch to IPLD
<mib_d867f6ac> but I want to try to build something on top of ipfs today ;)
<mib_d867f6ac> lgierth: I will do so in due course, yes, currently just experimentation
<lgierth> i think master should already understand ipld
<lgierth> it just doesn't default to it yet
<Kubuxu> it won't
<lgierth> mh ok
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<Kubuxu> lgierth: or it should work
<Kubuxu> but only if you link to the file or raw objects
<Kubuxu> s/objects/raw leafs/
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<mib_d867f6ac> huh... apparently the way merkledags are serialized is *against* google's own spec:
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<mib_d867f6ac> on the wire the data must go first and the links second
<mib_d867f6ac> yet what ipfs-go does is the other way around: all links go first, data goes last
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<mib_d867f6ac> probably worth documenting this for 3rd party implementors
<mib_d867f6ac> lgierth: ^^
<mib_d867f6ac> Kubuxu: ^^
<Kubuxu> Interesting,
<Kubuxu> we are using gogo/protobuf for protobuf encoding
<mib_d867f6ac> worse
<mib_d867f6ac> it has been changed https://github.com/gogo/protobuf/issues/42
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<mib_d867f6ac> so when you upgrade go-ipfs' bindings all the merkledag-based stuff will break :/
<Kubuxu> it won't break, the hashes will change
<Kubuxu> of new files
<mib_d867f6ac> ah so things do not get rewrapped when nodes speak to each other
<mib_d867f6ac> it's just on the initial data=>dag conversion
<Kubuxu> yes
<mib_d867f6ac> hrm... so I suppose if I rebuild my local ipfs-go with an updated gogo/protobuf, the mismatch with the other library I use to encode protobuf will go away
<mib_d867f6ac> will try shortly
<mib_d867f6ac> .oO( would still be nice to be able to insert objects without any rewrapping though )
<mib_d867f6ac> that is "here is a valid protobuf of a merkledag - store as-is and give me a hash I can match against what I produced and supplied"
<Kubuxu> I think you can do that with `ipfs block` api
<mib_d867f6ac> ahhhh trying...
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<mib_d867f6ac> nope...
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<mib_d867f6ac> or hm... perhaps it works
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<mib_d867f6ac> ahhhhhh it worked from the start
<mib_d867f6ac> but because I used `object get` instead of `block get` I was getting the rewrapped result back
<mib_d867f6ac> and nothing was matching
<mib_d867f6ac> argh!
<mib_d867f6ac> so yes - go-ipfs takes stuff as-given
<mib_d867f6ac> orry for the noise
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<Twryst> Hello ipfs peeps! Is ipfs at the point where it could reasonably be used as the backend to an android app?
<Twryst> I'm wondering about an ipfs-driven vine replacement
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<dignifiedquire> Twryst it is pretty ready on the desktop but mobile optimizations are not there yet
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<Twryst> @dignifiedquire Hm... yea I see a year-old google group question Juan answered about it now, thanks. For any app making use of IPFS right now, for users to also host data requires them running the ipfsdaemon on their machine (with associated install process, etc) and not just, say, installing a chrome browser extension or anything simple like that, then?
<A124> twryst For mobile platforms, use on gateway vs use of ipfs is not much of a difference.
<A124> And there is a site that does Vine like stuff.
<Twryst> oh interesting, where can I find it? @Al24
<Twryst> (also ty both)
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<lgierth> twryst: yeah you can use the gateway (ipfs.io or your own) or api (ipfs.io/api or your own), and then just flip a switch once go-ipfs is good enough for phones
<lgierth> twryst: also ligi has been running go-ipfs on android, so you can try it out and see for yourself if it's good nough for your use case
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<hsanjuan> whyrusleeping: lets put the consensus interface in github? I'd like to work on libp2p raft probably next week. Do you think hashicorp raft is a good option (adding a libp2p network transport to it)?
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<lgierth> hsanjuan: better to put it on swarm than directly on a transport
<whyrusleeping> hsanjuan: yeah, i think hashicorps raft is probably good
<whyrusleeping> i'd check to see what impl is used in etcd first though
<whyrusleeping> i'll do a writeup of the interface today
<whyrusleeping> er
<whyrusleeping> wait
<whyrusleeping> i did that?
<lgierth> yes
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<whyrusleeping> right
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<lgierth> uuugh jupiter is going crazy with goroutines
<whyrusleeping> lgierth: :/
<whyrusleeping> what version is it running?
<lgierth> aaand open fds, mem ok
<whyrusleeping> goro dump pls?
<lgierth> they're all 68d8a298c58ed950bd44118cc5e6d1ffc2def395 since tuesday or so, the storage hosts are older
<lgierth> yup in a sec
<lgierth> none of them looks particularly good regarding memory
<lgierth> all 2G+
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<hsanjuan> whyrusleeping: etcd uses its own raft implementation, and even though they say they allow custom transports, I don't get to see how that is configured. There is a transport interface as part of a rafthttp package, rather than being separated as it should...
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<hsanjuan> but this was a very quick look to the code
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<whyrusleeping> hrm...
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<whyrusleeping> okay
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<A124> ... Is someone doing any web archival on top IPFS, or distributed? I mean archive.org can host stuff, but it has strict rules if you upload, not strict when they themselves archive stuff. And you can archive Terabytes and people cannot use it, as most just cannot use WARC archives.
<lgierth> A124: search github for "ipwb"
<A124> Already familiar, thank you.
<A124> Theorethicaly the content should remain, but also you got to store all data. And headers would be replicate (as they include IP of the fetcher)
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<Kubuxu> lgierth, whyrusleeping: check out has-caching metrics board, any idea why the Has request rate at the input is perfectly in sync?
<lgierth> Kubuxu: eeh no idea
<Kubuxu> that is quite intriguing
<whyrusleeping> why is neptunes rate so high?
<whyrusleeping> its someone using neptune directly for requests or something?
<whyrusleeping> do we have a way to tell if a request gets made against an individual gateway vs the round robin?
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<Kubuxu> you mean on the output?
<lgierth> we don't feed the host header used into the metrics
<lgierth> too high cardinality
<Kubuxu> The neptune had bloom filter disabled.
<Kubuxu> I wanted to see the difference.
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<whyrusleeping> mmm... its my dial sync code somehow...
<whyrusleeping> fuckin p2p networking logic
<lgierth> verschlimmbesserung?
<whyrusleeping> yeah, that
<whyrusleeping> (actually, what does that one mean)
<lgierth> improvioration
<lgierth> when you fix it on one end, and break it on the other
<whyrusleeping> i also dont know that word
<whyrusleeping> ooooh
<whyrusleeping> yes
<whyrusleeping> yes
<whyrusleeping> yes
<lgierth> that was improvement + deterioration
<lgierth> degrovement
<whyrusleeping> lol
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<lgierth> or literally, imbadprovement
<whyrusleeping> alright, i'll work on improving that next week when i have my big monitors back
<M-hash> "refucktoring"
<i[m]> lol
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<whyrusleeping> M-hash: yes, thats the word for it
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<whyrusleeping> plugged the hole in the dam with my finger, and now the water started flowing over the top
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<lgierth> whyrusleeping: can i go restart jupiter? it looks like solid linear growth in goroutines and fd for ~4h btw
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<whyrusleeping> Yeah, do it
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<whyrusleeping> Kubuxu: review thingssss
<Kubuxu> I reviewed few already
<whyrusleeping> oh
<whyrusleeping> i see
<whyrusleeping> thanks :)
<Kubuxu> what you want me to review still
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<whyrusleeping> the block put format changes for now
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<Kubuxu> review my stuff too
<whyrusleeping> which ones?
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<Kubuxu> I have like 2 on your todolist
<whyrusleeping> oh!
<whyrusleeping> okay
<Kubuxu> and even more scattered
<lgierth> Kubuxu: as for the gateway errors PR, it needs a rebase, wait until the coreapi PR is merged since they conflict
<Kubuxu> lgierth: sure
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<lgierth> your ping thing is ready in the security-notes.md PR
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<Kubuxu> I've seent
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<whyrusleeping> lgierth: hows the coreapi PR going?
<whyrusleeping> need anything from me there?
<lgierth> just give it a last sanity check whether the interfaces make sense
<lgierth> i figure we can fix it up soon (tm) too
<lgierth> if there is anything
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<whyrusleeping> link?
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<lgierth> do i get a cookie for good tests?
<whyrusleeping> you do!
<whyrusleeping> unfortunately its a cookie for aol.com
<whyrusleeping> and its not really that useful to anyone
<lgierth> :/
<lgierth> i just came up with a way to make the calls api.Unixfs().Add(...)
<whyrusleeping> oooooo
<whyrusleeping> make it feel like javascripts?
<lgierth> with the next PR... that'll be for PUT and and a few object functions
<whyrusleeping> Kubuxu: lgierth reviewed the things that were asked of me :)
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<lgierth> i'm doing the blog post thing *cough*
<lgierth> anything i should take a look at afterwards?
<daviddias> dignifiedquire: since you approved the changes here: https://github.com/ipfs/js-ipfs-api/pull/398, which require https://github.com/ipfs/interface-ipfs-core/pull/78, should I assume that approval is for both?
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<whyrusleeping> lgierth: if you wanna review the cbor PR
<whyrusleeping> that would be pretty helpful
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<dignifiedquire> daviddias: merge if ci is green
<daviddias> all right :D
<LugariusMatrix> i researched some time and im kinda confused, there are all this projects that are kinda the same, ... and seeing a solutions to our problem is like seeing in fog.... to much of it. Sia, Storj, MaidSafe, IPFS and all thease
<LugariusMatrix> now what is a solution to what
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<LugariusMatrix> and my biggest question is, where do i store important documents for the puplic
<whyrusleeping> lgierth: jupiters logs didnt show any weird panics or stack traces did they?
<lgierth> i haven't checked
<lgierth> yet
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<whyrusleeping> LugariusMatrix: the first three projects you listed are made to incentivize others to store files for you. ipfs its just the base layer for moving files around p2p and content addressibly
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<lgierth> whyrusleeping: nothing in docker logs ipfs 2>&1 | grep goroutine
<whyrusleeping> lgierth: okay, thanks :)
<lgierth> logs go back ~6h
<whyrusleeping> oh
<whyrusleeping> hrm
<LugariusMatrix> whyrusleeping (IRC): thanks.... so IPFS might not be the perfect thing for me
<whyrusleeping> i would be interested to see the logs around when that growth happened
<whyrusleeping> LugariusMatrix: that depends on your use case
<whyrusleeping> if you tell us a bit more about that we could likely help out
<lgierth> whyrusleeping: that'd be ~6h
<lgierth> ~14:25 utc to be precise
<lgierth> and the logs go back to 9:59 EDT which should be 15:59 UTC
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<whyrusleeping> ah
<whyrusleeping> so we probably missed the logs for when the failure happened
<lgierth> eh wait
<lgierth> yeah
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<lgierth> !pin /ipfs/QmXarD5t3EDffn4nRtqVTcd6bJq5v5wFTErcLFxtg5MYk2 blog-preview
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<LugariusMatrix> whyrusleeping (IRC): Well, for example. I have 100 GB music i want to share around the world, it should be avariable even if my BananaPro computer fails
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<lgierth> filecoin will be an incentivization layer on top of ipfs
<lgierth> just note that ipfs isn't a place for anything that might violate copyright (see our code of conduct https://git.io/vVBS0)
<LugariusMatrix> yeah of course
<LugariusMatrix> so , Filecoin and Safecoin are both only are theoretical concept right now
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<lgierth> i'm not up-to-date with safecoin, but at least filecoin hasn't been released yet
<LugariusMatrix> well, Maidsafe is kinda alpha, there is a filelimit and so on, both Filecoin and safecoin are only blueprints, but what project should i support
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<A124> _might violate_
<A124> By law that is everything you have not produced yourself, and even if you did it cannot contain anything.
<lgierth> A124: it't not about the by-law definition, it's about keeping distractions away from the project
<A124> What do you mean distraction exactly in this case please?
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<lgierth> it's roughly the same as with porn: we know a copyright violation when we see it
<lgierth> and we have better things to do than wrestling with copyright lawyers, and battling ipfs=piracy press
<A124> Yes, I understand that. Right.
<lgierth> LugariusMatrix: again i'm not super familiar with maidsafe, but it seems it's focused on storing-my-files use cases, while ipfs tries to build useful protocols at all abstraction layers, which also work nicely without the ipfs protocol on top
* A124 is personaly tired of all those specific services that do not cooperate and then die.
<lgierth> there's a lot of collaboration between ipfs and ethereum though
<lgierth> and between ipfs and non p2p/blockchain projects
* whyrusleeping is a collaboration pusher
<lgierth> openbazaar and mediachain use ipfs/libp2p too
<lgierth> and i admit we also have strong opinions on many things :)
<LugariusMatrix> well Maidsafe tries the same in a different way
<LugariusMatrix> i may have to wait and try out
<lgierth> what i mean with "useful protocols at all layers" are things like ipld, libp2p and multiformats which we've derived from ipfs
<lgierth> and ipfs is just one specific thing to do on top of that stack
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<LugariusMatrix> yeah i know, Maidsafe is kinda combining all this at once
<lgierth> and i'm convinced that even if ipfs itself fails, at least one of these three will keep a life of its own
<lgierth> just because each of the is really useful on its own
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<LugariusMatrix> yeah, lets wait for save- and filecoin
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<dignifiedquire> ipfs rocks
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<lgierth> right?
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<whyrusleeping> Kubuxu: lgierth review pls: https://github.com/libp2p/go-libp2p-swarm/pull/4
<whyrusleeping> hsanjuan: kevina: if you guys are around wouldnt mind an extra eye or two on the lock ordering here
<whyrusleeping> no need to understand the rest of the swarm code, the dial_sync stuff is pretty isolated
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<lgierth> whyrusleeping: n1
<whyrusleeping> ?
<lgierth> ice one
<lgierth> *nice
<whyrusleeping> lol
<lgierth> this lag - full house at c-base
<whyrusleeping> ooooh, fun times
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<lgierth> !pin QmRFTtbyEp3UaT67ByYW299Suw7HKKnWK6NJMdNFzDjYdX examples
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<kevina> whyrusleeping: okay I can take a look. I tend to try to even avoid the possibility of dead lock in the code I write by sticking with short lived mutex and just dealing with the possibility of possibly inconstant state. :)
<whyrusleeping> in which case?
<kevina> that was a general comment, not particular to this pull request.
<whyrusleeping> oooh, okay
<kevina> for example, not really sure if it works here, but I try to have a single global mutex that I only hold for a very short time
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<whyrusleeping> heh, that might work in *some* cases
<whyrusleeping> but mutexes aint cheap
<whyrusleeping> no matter how small of a time you hold them
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<kevina> a mutex should be very cheap if there is no contention
<kevina> that is where "the very short time" part comes in
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<kevina> "All modern thread implementations can handle an uncontended mutex lock entirely in user space (with just a couple of machine instructions) - only when there is contention, the library has to call into the kernel."
<kevina> I assume the go mutex code can also. :)
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<whyrusleeping> assuming its a single uncontented thread running on a single core, yes
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<Kubuxu> whyrusleeping: as we were bitten by it int his place
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<Kubuxu> is it possible to share memory by communicating
<Kubuxu> instead communicating by sharing memory
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<whyrusleeping> thanks rob pike
<whyrusleeping> i'd prefer not to
<whyrusleeping> it makes the code a bit more unweildy
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<dansup> lol
<lgierth> !pin /ipfs/QmdxMMSjgtFLbKgkMikkc8reW3AWKBkBjSMFRNdYRhj1zd website
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<dignifiedquire> yeah after hours and hours I have a working windows installation 🎉
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