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<dignifiedquire>
good morning
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<alu>
sup
<LugariusMtrx>
hey
<alu>
what u guys using ipfs for rite now
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<LugariusMatrix>
file and webserver
<LugariusMatrix>
and home gateway
<ploop>
are directories hashes of their contents? i.e., to update a directory periodically while maintaining the same "location", one would need to use ipns?
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<LugariusMatrix>
i think so
<LugariusMatrix>
!nick
<LugariusMatrix>
!whoami
<LugariusMatrix>
dammit
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<LugariusMatrix>
can someone tell me my nick?
<ploop>
LugariusMatrix
<LugariusMatrix>
thanks
<polezaivsani>
ploop, yes
<polezaivsani>
though i'm not sure if one can embed ipns links within directory
<ploop>
but you can point ipns at a directory in order to add files to it later, right?
<polezaivsani>
sure
<polezaivsani>
that's what ipns is made for
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<ploop>
if there's a massive directory (terabytes) and it's added to, does the whole thing need to be rehashed or can a small addition to a large directory happen quickly?
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<polezaivsani>
i'd rather someone more shrewd in the subject answer this
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<polezaivsani>
i mean the directory content doesn't need to be rehashed, though i'm not sure how it's structure is stored and it may need to be
<polezaivsani>
the unchanged stuff stays the same
<ploop>
i guess it depends whether the directory is a hash of the files in it or a hash of the hashes in it
<ploop>
difference between hashing megabytes and terabytes
<polezaivsani>
it's the latter
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<ploop>
ah, that sounds good then
<polezaivsani>
yeah
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<Kubuxu>
ploop, polezaivsani: directories store filename->hash mappings
<user1969>
I am having trouble with my IPFS installation under Linux. What is wrong here?
<user1969>
$ ipfs version ipfs version 0.4.3 $ ipfs daemon --mount
<user1969>
Initializing daemon... Swarm listening on /ip4/127.0.0.1/tcp/4001 Swarm listening on /ip4/***.***.***.***/tcp/4001 Swarm listening on /ip4/***.***.***.***/tcp/4001 Swarm listening on /ip6/::1/tcp/4001
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<user1969>
API server listening on /ip4/127.0.0.1/tcp/5001 Gateway (readonly) server listening on /ip4/127.0.0.1/tcp/8080 ***.***.***.*** ERROR fuse/ipns: looking up /ipns/Q****************************************: Could not resolve name. ipns_unix.go:98 ***.***.***.*** ERROR node: error mounting: Could not resolve name. mount_unix.go:101 Error: Could not resolve name. $
<user1969>
If I delete my .ipfs folder and re-run $ipfs init then I can mount my /ipfs and /ipns folders correctly, but If I shut it down and restart it then I get the above error again.
<Kubuxu>
user1969: do `ipfs name publish QmUNLLsPACCz1vLxQVkXqqLX5R1X345qqfHbsf67hvA3Nn`
<user1969>
OK, I'll give that a try.
<user1969>
$ ipfs name publish QmUNLLsPACCz1vLxQVkXqqLX5R1X345qqfHbsf67hvA3Nn Published to QmWMu9KdiNMn5XT8VKsTj9JKH7qJUAynoK6u1eTmjWwjVb: QmUNLLsPACCz1vLxQVkXqqLX5R1X345qqfHbsf67hvA3Nn
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<Kubuxu>
yeah, and now ipfs daemon --mount shouldn't crash
<user1969>
You are correct. It does work now. That's great.
<user1969>
One last question before I go. If I leave my ipfs daemon mounted and running, even though I'm not currently using it, does this help or benefit the network?
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: how are things, is ipld ready yet? ;)
<dignifiedquire>
looks like you made good progress :)
<daviddias>
There are some things left, but the biggest slice is done and actually I'm very confident that we can ship a ton this week IPLD+Async Crypto+get that bitswap to be 1.0.0 and 1.1.0 and to work without a itch (well maybe this last part will take some days of next week)
<dignifiedquire>
awesome, that was my plan as well
<daviddias>
how was the conf?
<dignifiedquire>
pretty cool
<dignifiedquire>
js-ipfs with pubsub and npm on ipfs are the most requested things
<dignifiedquire>
how is your cold? any better?
<daviddias>
managed to get better Friday/Saturday, throat doesn't hurt anymore, thank you for asking :)
<daviddias>
rad, congratz on the hacked on the fly prototype :)
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<dignifiedquire>
thanks :) most props go to haad for making orbit-db reall
<dignifiedquire>
*really
<daviddias>
yeah, ton of apps using it now
<daviddias>
👌🏽
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<daviddias>
dignifiedquire: do you have time to do some CR today?
<dignifiedquire>
and I have things setup and working
<dignifiedquire>
(yes in a moment)
<daviddias>
so that I create the PRs for the impl with latest version
<daviddias>
thank you
<daviddias>
sweet!
<daviddias>
is there a PR for it?
<dignifiedquire>
not yet
<dignifiedquire>
but I discovered sth
<dignifiedquire>
and that is that we only have full support for webcrypto in firefox and chrome
<dignifiedquire>
as the other browser don't implement all algorithms that we use :(
<dignifiedquire>
so I'm not sure what to do
<daviddias>
(just spent 10 minutes trying to figure out why my computer was going crazy, turns out my external keyboard and trackpad were on inside my backpad and were clicking each other )
<daviddias>
dignifiedquire: that is really good to know
<dignifiedquire>
(:D)
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<daviddias>
the 'simple' solution would be "well... those other browsers don't have WebRTC anyway", however, the thing to do in these cases is opening an issue, making that case, hear the community concerns, and try to find what is the best option
<daviddias>
we probably can have a WebCrypto shim for those browsers, no?
<daviddias>
something that can be added that exposes the same API
<dignifiedquire>
we could write one, yes
<dignifiedquire>
but that would take some time and effort
<daviddias>
once identified, it can be an open endeavour
<dignifiedquire>
it's important to note that some of these algorithms will never be added to some browsers, eg. AES-CTR is deprecated and as such will not be added to either edge or safari
<daviddias>
is npm down?
<dignifiedquire>
not for me
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<dignifiedquire>
where should I open the issue?
<dignifiedquire>
on libp2p-crypto?
<dignifiedquire>
published interface-pull-blob-store
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<daviddias>
whyrusleeping: lgierth Kubuxu did you had the chance to review and complete: https://github.com/libp2p/libp2p/pull/8 ? I would like to review libp2p's roadmap during today's call
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: so it turns out mobile android is not an issue, sauce labs just has a very old verison
<daviddias>
saw your updated comment
<daviddias>
it's less bad then :)
<dignifiedquire>
yep
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<dignifiedquire>
Chrome Mobile 39.0.0 << vs latest is like 54
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: can I get some input, on if this makes sense to merge and push as the next version for aegir?
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<dignifiedquire>
well not everything on that thread, this does not include the removal of transpilation for `dist`
<dignifiedquire>
and the question is, what do you want to wait for on this thread, x days till comment, feedback from specific people? we had all these things already suggested and open for feedback in the referenced issue where there was some feedback which seemed to be in favor of this
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<dignifiedquire>
Kubuxu: will you be able to stream later, or should I set sth up?
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<Kubuxu>
dignifiedquire: I won't be able to stream, I might be late to the sync.
<dignifiedquire>
okay
<dignifiedquire>
thanks
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<Kubuxu>
if I am not on time for the sync start w/o me
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<seharder>
@kubuxu I would like to listen in on the sync again this morning but I am unable to find the link.
<ploop>
my os doesn't have fuse, so I can't try it myself, but what happens if you mount /ipfs and then ls inside it? you get some kind of error, I assume?
<Mateon1>
ploop: It's either empty or errors out, I'm not sure as I use Windows
<whyrusleeping>
ploop: it errors
<whyrusleeping>
the /ipfs directory is unlistable
<ploop>
does that break things like `find /`?
<whyrusleeping>
ploop: it doesnt break running 'find /', but you wont see anything in that dir
<Mateon1>
`find`, `du` and similar usually just skip a directory on error
<ploop>
oh
<Mateon1>
So no breakage here
<Mateon1>
skip + warn on stderr, or something
<Mateon1>
(applies to `rm`, `mv`, pretty much any file utility I can think of)
<richardlitt>
========================== IPFS Hangouts: All Hands Call =========================
<Mateon1>
Just a note, I'll be very passively participating
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<jophish>
Hi all
<jophish>
my girlfriend is a video editor and often has to send large files with clients. At the moment she uses products such as google drive for this. Is there a sensible use case for ipfs here?
<whyrusleeping>
jophish: yeah! we use ipfs for sending videos around
<Mateon1>
That depends, are the video files sensitive? IPFS doesn't have it's security model proven, and it's possible for people to see requested hashes on the network.
<whyrusleeping>
^
<jophish>
I'll have to ask about that. I guess the files themselves would be encrypted which is one part of that problem solved
<jophish>
Please correct me if this is wrong; wouldn't it be necessary to keep her computer serving the files on and connected to the network all the time when people want to download the files?
<jophish>
It's probably not going to happen that her clients install an ipfs daemon :)
<jophish>
oh, and also a http gateway for them to use
<jophish>
which thinking about it is tantamount to just running a http server herself
<jophish>
I guess it's not a use case ipfs is trying to solve
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<Mateon1>
jophish: A new protocol called Filecoin is planned, it will allow to incentivize pinning, so nodes will be paid to store your hashes. Right now, you have to keep some sort of server running, but you can then request the hashes from ipfs.io
<whyrusleeping>
ooooh, aaron == kumavis ?
<whyrusleeping>
that makes way more sense now
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<jophish>
Mateon1: cool
<jophish>
thanks :)
<jophish>
I really hope this takes off
<richardlitt>
Sorry guys, my internet is not good enough at the moment. :(
<richardlitt>
Waited around all morning on Saturday for the internet guy, who never came. Thought it would be better by now with the DDoS over, but I guess I can't use the internet in this location. Will read the notes.
<Mateon1>
I have to drop from the call. I'll catch up on YT
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<flyingzumwalt>
Mateon1++
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<ploop>
what is the actual process that happens to a file to get its "ipfs hash"? it seems to always start with Q and doesn't seem to be just base64 of sha256 or anything
<lgierth>
ploop: it's base58 of sha512, with two multihash bytes in front
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<flyingzumwalt>
nicolagreco the conversation in the issue seemed inconclusive because daviddias didn't answer your question, so I figured I should check rather than assuming it was off the schedule.
<nicolagreco>
flyingzumwalt: oh I just re-read, it really was
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<flyingzumwalt>
we discussed IPLD briefly -- dignifiedquire will post some examples of IIIF annotations (and maybe IIIF canvases & manifests) where it's not clear how to persist the JSON-LD to IPLD without making the JSON-LD invalid.
<nicolagreco>
I have been caught up with the IPLD writing :(
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<nicolagreco>
flyingzumwalt: I am happy to discuss that async
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<flyingzumwalt>
nicolagreco++
<flyingzumwalt>
for these reading groups it really would be great if we had some way to share annotations & highlights on PDFs and Web pages. I know lots of people talk about doing that but do any of the existing annotation tools actually work for that use?
<nicolagreco>
can we set up a "research" session for next week?
<nicolagreco>
so that we discuss a joint effort to do research
<nicolagreco>
?^
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<flyingzumwalt>
sounds good nicolagreco, though monday's calls are getting long -- starting next week we're re-instating an "apps" call to cover orbit and other distributed apps.
<A124>
flyingzumwalt PDF -> HTML -> Anotate online must be fairly easily, so there is, not sure if public.
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<bigbluehat>
flyingzumwalt: hypothes.is is the best one I know of (atm)
<bigbluehat>
(full disclosure: I used to work there :) )
<flyingzumwalt>
bigbluehat ah yes! someone mentioned hypothes.is to me last week but I couldn't remember the name.
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<bigbluehat>
yeah. domain hacks ftw! ;)
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<dignifiedquire>
whyrusleeping: got a second?
<whyrusleeping>
probably
<whyrusleeping>
i'm just being scatterbrained right now
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<whyrusleeping>
so whats up
<dignifiedquire>
I was wondering about the sharding pr
<dignifiedquire>
I saw you rebase it, but it seems to be conflicting still
<dignifiedquire>
have you pushed that yet?
<dignifiedquire>
and also is it usable for experiments, or should I wait?
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<dignifiedquire>
A124: thanks, it's pretty long (currently trying to do 1 paper per week so not sure we can manage that, but adding it to the list :)
<whyrusleeping>
Yeah, i need to rebase again
<whyrusleeping>
but it should be usable for experiments
<flyingzumwalt>
dignifiedquire I invited aeschylus and edsilv to dial into next Monday's all-hands for the demo of anno
<richardlitt>
A124: Thanks for the feedback.
<dignifiedquire>
A124: thank you
<A124>
I had people questioning me about the version and why not to use the one on page.
<A124>
Welcome.
<dignifiedquire>
flyingzumwalt: sounds good, better get it wokring till then :D
<dignifiedquire>
though that might be tricky given haad is away this week
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<dignifiedquire>
we will seee
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<richardlitt>
A124: Anything you particularly feel is confusing?
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<richardlitt>
There's been a lot of generic "The GitHub repositories are hard to navigate," but I'm not sure how to make them more accessible on that alone.
<A124>
richardlitt You read the github comment, right?
<A124>
Well, there are a lot of repos and often a problem that you think is go-ipfs is in another repo.
<richardlitt>
What's your name on GitHub? donothesitate?
<A124>
And some issues are filed twice or even more (or they were in past)
<A124>
Yeah.
<richardlitt>
"Very hard to navigate, hard to find relevant answers, documentation and materials" - this is useful, but it's hard for me to judge how to improve it
<richardlitt>
Part of the problem, I think, is that a lot of the code is segmented into different repositories because it benefits the code to be factored out this way, but that doesn't benefit newcomers
<A124>
Somehow implementing a search, which I mentioned. I have no other specific idea around that. Not even irc logs are useful. I wanted pdf link I discussed and had to pull my own logs.
<richardlitt>
That's part of the reason I try to have project directories in the main repos
<richardlitt>
Have you tried using GitHub search, across IPFS?
<richardlitt>
What if I wrote a guide or had a video showing how to more effectively use GitHub search?
<A124>
Also there is reddit, ycombinator etc. Fulltext search would be really beneficial, as google seems not to care, and other search engines replace ipfs with other words.
<richardlitt>
For instance: `user:ipfs is:open is:issue CRDT`
<richardlitt>
What does GitHub search not provide, there?
<A124>
Not sure if video, or document or both, alot of people tend to skip videos, And yes, I did try that.
<richardlitt>
(Sorry if this is coming off as hard to read - I am honestly trying to figure out a better way forward)
<richardlitt>
Hmm. That's not good.
<richardlitt>
Specifically (as an example), what were you searching for?
<A124>
Had semi successful experience with code search also. I knew where to look for the version fix for the website, and the repo is small, else it would take long time or grepping the local copy.
<A124>
A lot of things, I do not remember. Both things about current implementations, future implementations, bugs, things broken.
<A124>
Example how to exactly do a file upload with curl (found that and modified a testing server unit test code)
<richardlitt>
hmm
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<A124>
Which was not even on github, and forgot the name. The fragmentation is terrible, and I am no newcommer.
<A124>
One of the few people that actively tries to keep in loop that is not a dev.
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<richardlitt>
I wonder how to help there,
<richardlitt>
Maybe better man files? With more examples?
<richardlitt>
Or better tutorials? Fragmentation is hard to fix
<A124>
Yes, that also, and a list of all platforms IPFS is represented on.
<A124>
I could write it, but have no platform, currently searching for a suitable platform for myself. For IPFS Discourse should with some caveats work very well.
<A124>
And the actual "yet another account" barrier does eliminate the worst noise, so it is actually beneficial.
<richardlitt>
I'm not sure that moving is the best option.
<richardlitt>
I think that's just pushing off the reckoning later. What we need to do is reconsider how all of our documentation is done, across the board.
<A124>
People that do not mind github will not mind discourse, but those that mind github mind not mind forum (compared to developer site they have no idea how to use)
<A124>
I did not propose moving, except the google groups (who does even use that?)
<dignifiedquire>
for tutorials I would expect sth like gitbook works pretty decent?
<richardlitt>
That's not true; there are people in that thread who don't like Discourse.
<richardlitt>
To be honest, no one really uses the Google Groups. I am for removing it.
<dignifiedquire>
there is some history with the GG
<dignifiedquire>
jbenet: can tell you more, but I don't remember anymore
<dignifiedquire>
if we have discourse we probably can drop it, not sure if we can do that before
<richardlitt>
Which is why we keep it. But it shouldn't be linked anywhere, at this point. It is for those who like email - but that's not actually helpful, because we don't actively maintain it
<kevina>
I am not a super big fan of Discourse. If we do use it I propose it be for users not developers...
<dignifiedquire>
kevina: why?
<whyrusleeping>
kevina: yeah, its ideally for user issues
<whyrusleeping>
any code related things will remain on github issues
<richardlitt>
Has ipfs/support not worked?
<whyrusleeping>
"help my ipfs is broken" or "help, i cant install anything" would be issues for discourse
<A124>
Yeah, I'm aware that some people oppose that. As yet another platform, not as they dislike Discourse. I was hesitating myself, but since using Discourse it proved at least in our case easy clean way to manage community.
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<kevina>
We can't avoid github and I rather not things be spread out any more then they have to.
<richardlitt>
A124: That's not the impression I got from that thread.
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<kevina>
Basically (in my view) Discourse should be for support, not development.
<A124>
Well, the decision is on you guys, I just chimed in with opinion, and I spend effort to have as objective and as less biased opinions I can in regards of technical things.
<dignifiedquire>
richardlitt: github issues are hard to navigate as soon as there are pages and pages of them, simple search isn't always enough, as that would mean you know exactly what you are looking for
<richardlitt>
dignifiedquire: fair
<richardlitt>
A124: And seriously, thanks!
<A124>
kevina: That's what I said/meant ;)
<richardlitt>
Just trying to figure this out. There is a problem, and it does need to be helped. :)
<dignifiedquire>
kumavis: thank you :)
<A124>
I am the user / third party dev. And if life permits, I would be there.
<dignifiedquire>
kevina: yes, discourse would be used for support + discussions which are more open ended
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<kevina>
A124: Glad we agree
<A124>
We have several places we write information down, instead all publicable stuff could be in Discord.
<A124>
I mean... Discourse, sorry.
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<kumavis>
dignifiedquire: how does the reading group work? meet at some time to discuss or just in chats?
<A124>
And there could be community contributor/(insert name) category that would be for such people amassing community FAQ and howtos.
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<dignifiedquire>
kumavis: current idea is, every monday a new paper is started, everyone tries to read it when they have time during the week and post notes, comments and questions about it in the issue
<dignifiedquire>
flyingzumwalt: suggested using https://hypothes.is/ for notes though
<dignifiedquire>
I haven't looked at that yet though
<whyrusleeping>
I think we're all on the same page about discourse being for support and not development. Anyone disagree?
<kevina>
dignifiedquire: (in my option) it depends on how open ended, I would prefer to keep more technical discussions on GitHub
<kevina>
especially if the discussion is on existing code
<kevina>
in any case you won't get any strong objection from me :)
<richardlitt>
nicolagreco: Are you on the ipfs-users google group?
<whyrusleeping>
kevina: status update on filestore stuff? What do i need to look at next?
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<lgierth>
richardlitt: re: repos hard to navigate -- i think a prominently placed "jump to github" drop-down button on the website would help a lot. it'd link to the entry repo for each org
<richardlitt>
I think there's a bigger issue
<richardlitt>
Which is that we put a lot of effort initially into ipfs/ipfs
<richardlitt>
But _no one lands there._
<lgierth>
yeah :)
<lgierth>
that'd be a way of landing there
<lgierth>
one more way to get people to the entry repos is setting the "homepage" of every repo and every org to the respective entry repo
<arkadiy>
it's just the foundation right now but a solid one :) pleasure building on top of libp2p!
<arkadiy>
I think we've unearthed a couple of bugs in the process, gonna open issues
<lgierth>
<3
<lgierth>
yes please
<lgierth>
so good to hear from you :)
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<arkadiy>
we ended up not being interface compatible with go-datastore unfortunately, would love to bring that to the table
<arkadiy>
all the statements are IPLD compatible CBOR, tho
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<arkadiy>
lgierth: the bug seems related to go-libp2p-swarm but there's not really any open issues on that repo, should I open against the main go-libp2p?
<lgierth>
yeah go-libp2p when in doubt
<lgierth>
nevermind go-datastore, it's awesome that you're shipping -- i hope we can make it work in the future
<dignifiedquire>
my guess is that it is not detecting the right format for some reason, so the cmd never returns the requested block
<Codebird>
BananaMagician: Files are split into segments, together with index objects that contain a list of segments that comprise the file.
<Codebird>
(Only really big files need more than one index object)
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<Codebird>
A peer might not have all the segments for a file, if if you attempt to retrieve that file it will contact other peers in order to request any that it lacks.
<dignifiedquire>
whyrusleeping: oh I have an idea
<dignifiedquire>
you are changing the `put` default format aren't you?
<dignifiedquire>
but the test assumes the default is protobuf
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<lgierth>
whyrusleeping: admin team :D
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<whyrusleeping>
lgierth: eh?
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<whyrusleeping>
dignifiedquire: oooooo
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<whyrusleeping>
yeah
<whyrusleeping>
thats why
<whyrusleeping>
should the put default stay at CIDv0 protobuf?
<lgierth>
go-libp2p-nat needs the admin team
<dignifiedquire>
if you don't want a breaking change, I'm afraid so
<lgierth>
whyrusleeping: it has the neat side-effect of making all admin team members watchers as well. otherwise they aren't affiliated with the repo in any way
<dignifiedquire>
whyrusleeping: maybe open an issue for discussion? I could see benefits to both
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<BananaMagician>
Is there a good explanation of ipfs because nothing i've read makes sense
<seharder>
whyrusleeping: Today during the call you mentioned that it would be good to write some examples. Can you steer me to something specific.
<richardlitt>
whyrusleeping: <3
<whyrusleeping>
seharder: Yeah! I'm really just looking for small writeups of examples of doing basic things with ipfs
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<lgierth>
watching at 1.5x :)
<lgierth>
i like it
<seharder>
I will work swapping out the datastore this week.
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<BananaMagician>
Is it possible to have a hash collision and get the wrong file than what you really wanted
<lgierth>
seharder: kevina is also working on a datastore
<lgierth>
not redis, but he's pretty good into it
<seharder>
BananaMagician: A hash can only represent one file
<BananaMagician>
seharder: Im not sure if my question makes sense but i mean does there exist 2 files which resolve to the same hash
<seharder>
seharder: not if everything is working properly
<lgierth>
BananaMagician: as long as the hash algorithm doesn't have severe vulnerabilities, it's safe -- ipfs uses sha512 which won't be attackable in years, and even then we can easily switch algorithms thanks to multihash