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<geoah>
good morning people :D
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<neuthral>
habeeb
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<achin>
it's friday!
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<A124>
Thinking how to handle public contributions to documentation, what network, and how to handle identities. Will there be any registry, where user has to pay with CPU power or something to get identity?
<A124>
And... also which copyleft licence you recommend for documentation, snippets, and how-tos?
<lgierth>
we've been using a CC variant so far i think
<lgierth>
cc-by-sa 3.0 for the libp2p specs for example
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<A124>
Alright, thanks.
<Kubuxu>
yeah, CC-BY-SA is the one we decided for
<Kubuxu>
we started with NC too but dropped it later
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<Kubuxu>
lgierth: have you been working one the tooling more or not?
<lgierth>
Kubuxu: no -- give it a try though
<Kubuxu>
I am using mr right now. It works but the more I try to dev on separate modules of go-ipfs the more I think we should steal packages (or fork them) from Juan
<Kubuxu>
unrewritten go-ipfs doesn't build in 3 places, two of them are PRs to Juan and one of them is why working on a package ahead
<lgierth>
Kubuxu: yes i agree
<lgierth>
Kubuxu: anyhow, give gx update-tree a try :)
<Kubuxu>
I will when I have something to upgrade
<lgierth>
it's probably gonna be part of a gx-space tool or so later
<Kubuxu>
right now I will be making changes in so many places that it would be tedious even with the tool
<Kubuxu>
also: we need real captains for the multiformats repos
<Kubuxu>
PRs are stuck there for months
<lgierth>
you can also make a random local change to go-multiaddr or so to give it a try
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* zignig_
finishes putting the minature humans to bed, Friday, Beer.
zignig_ is now known as zignig
<zignig>
So... who has been bringing the ipfs awesome ?
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<lgierth>
Kubuxu whyrusleeping: go-ipfs is still leaking stuff
<lgierth>
slowly but steadily
<Kubuxu>
awesome
<Kubuxu>
what is it leaking?
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<lgierth>
memory and goroutines
<lgierth>
and FDs
<lgierth>
well FDs is hard to tell
<Kubuxu>
1. probably peers are going up too, we would have to make correction for that
<lgierth>
but definitely memory and goroutines
<lgierth>
no it's rising slowly over the course of days and weeks
<Kubuxu>
and I think me and jeromy said that the leak of memory from peer records will be slow so we are not yet saving those to disk
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<Kubuxu>
jupiter looks like leaking goroutines
<Kubuxu>
and urnaus looks high on memory but it might be running old version
<Kubuxu>
but yeah, memory is rising
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<lgierth>
go for it -- i'm heading out, paying a visit to victorbjelkholm
<victorbjelkholm>
lgierth, should we meet outside?
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<Kubuxu>
uranus is leaking in goprocess on doClose..
<Kubuxu>
lgierth: ahh
<ansuz>
comedic gold in #ipfs
<Kubuxu>
lgierth: uranus is on commit that still includes leak in bitswap, at least I think so
<Kubuxu>
s/uranus/jupiter
<Kubuxu>
all the way up :p
<ansuz>
idk how to interpret that
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<Kubuxu>
ansuz: I won't even
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<flyingzumwalt>
dignifiedquire are you around?
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<flyingzumwalt>
FYI dignifiedquire I pulled the latest anno code and ran it. Still getting `Uncaught TypeError: this.orbitdb.docstore is not a function`
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<dignifiedquire>
flyingzumwalt: I am around now
<dignifiedquire>
about to push a fixed version
<flyingzumwalt>
dignifiedquire++
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<aconz2>
can anyone point me towards more details on how blocks are split?
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<flyingzumwalt>
dignifiedquire the IIIF meeting is disbanding at the moment. I might not be able to tinker with the anno demo until next week when I'm back at home :frown:
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<dignifiedquire>
flyingzumwalt: sorry :/ trying to get it in demo state, but everytime I think it's ready sth doesn't work
<dignifiedquire>
but found some valuable information about fixing things in orbit-db to get it more ready for public use
<flyingzumwalt>
no worries dignifiedquire. It's already awesome and you already nailed it in terms of *wow* factor.
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<flyingzumwalt>
dignifiedquire next stop: demo in April, with everything working in the browser in *both* Mirador and Universal Viewer
<dignifiedquire>
:) that should be enough time to get that done
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<dignifiedquire>
flyingzumwalt: pushed a version that "works"
<dignifiedquire>
it should at least not throw errors anymore
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<dignifiedquire>
but you currently have to reload the page to get updates
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<lgierth>
Kubuxu: i think they're running 0.4.3 no?
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<lgierth>
is the internet dwntime today really so bad?
<richardlitt>
lgierth: I am trying to find a record of the pinset bug fix that went into 0.4.4.
<richardlitt>
Do you know what code was added that fixed the bug we had, there?
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<richardlitt>
I am specifically trying to add a paragraph explaining how the bug was fixed for the blog post, here https://github.com/ipfs/blog/pull/78
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<Kubuxu>
oh
<Kubuxu>
now I remember why I stopped using it
<Kubuxu>
you can't use it through global gateways if you run weechat relay without TLS
<arkadiy>
hi guys, quick question that I haven't been able to find an answer to -- is there an estimate for the total number of objects in the DHT right now?
<Kubuxu>
no that I know of
<whyrusleeping>
Kubuxu: ooooh, yeah...
<whyrusleeping>
arkadiy: a lot
<arkadiy>
hehe
<whyrusleeping>
i can try and get you an estimate if you like
<arkadiy>
it would definitely be helpful
<arkadiy>
order of magnitude would do
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<arkadiy>
like ~100M, 1B, 10B, etc
<whyrusleeping>
okay, the easiest way that i'm going to try will be to check my local leveldb datastore
<arkadiy>
yeah, you should be able to estimate by sampling local node, right?
<whyrusleeping>
arkadiy: youre talking about number of files in ipfs?
<whyrusleeping>
or number of dht records in flight?
<arkadiy>
number of routable objects, let's say
<whyrusleeping>
jbenet normally uses around 1B as his number
<arkadiy>
or number of provider records, in other words
<arkadiy>
ok
<Geertiebear>
whyrusleeping: wow that's a lot
<arkadiy>
sweet, that's helpful
<whyrusleeping>
Yeah, and you guys are all complaining about bandwidth
<whyrusleeping>
while i'm over here putting out fires making sure all that stuff stays routable :P
<arkadiy>
the mediachain dataset is approaching 50% of that :D
<whyrusleeping>
o.o
<Geertiebear>
another question, will ipfs be used for online gaming? I presume not
<whyrusleeping>
arkadiy: make sure to use at least 0.4.4
<arkadiy>
(we're not actually in provider records though)
<whyrusleeping>
i remember you encountering an issue with files losing pins
<arkadiy>
yeah
<whyrusleeping>
and we just fixed that very same bug
<arkadiy>
right now we're stepped back a bit from directly working with that and are mostly rutting around in our own corner of libp2p, with our own routing
<whyrusleeping>
arkadiy: oooOoo, fun stuff there :)
<arkadiy>
yep! announcing some early release stuff ~monday
<arkadiy>
very very primitive but a good foundation
<arkadiy>
I will have one more question for you (re: go-datastore) when you have a few moments
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<whyrusleeping>
sure sure
<whyrusleeping>
wassup?
<whyrusleeping>
re: monday release: <3 awesome!
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<keks>
btw github is back
<keks>
kindof...
<whyrusleeping>
hrmm
<keks>
who needs css anyway?
<whyrusleeping>
ooooh, lol
<keks>
whyrusleeping: when github got their act together, can you look at the floodsub pr?
<whyrusleeping>
keks: yeah, definitely
<keks>
nice, thx
<whyrusleeping>
sorry about my lack of attention lately, been head down working on ipld nonsense
<i[m]>
I want my package manager built on ipfs :(
<whyrusleeping>
i[m]: me tooooooooo
<whyrusleeping>
thats why i made gx
<i[m]>
And by my package manager I mean the one I'm continuously dreaming of.
<i[m]>
+1
<i[m]>
waaant
<i[m]>
Is it on git? I'd like to check it out
<whyrusleeping>
Yeah, gx is at github.com/whyrusleeping/gx
<i[m]>
Someday when git stops getting ddos'd
<whyrusleeping>
its more of a generalized package management system built on ipfs
<keks>
whyrusleeping: in ipld, do links become part of the object (and thus adding links changes the hash) iiuc that's not the case with current merkledag
<i[m]>
I <3 Rust, and would like to be able to point cargo to ipfs instead of crates.io
<whyrusleeping>
keks: changing links changes the object both in ipld and the current protobufs
<whyrusleeping>
i[m]: dude, write gx-rust
<keks>
oh okay.
<whyrusleeping>
i[m]: that would be so cooool
<arkadiy>
whyrusleeping: mainly curious about design motivations for that interface, particularly stuff like key manipulation and scanning -- seems somewhat at odds with being a "minimal" interface that can be backed by e.g. memcached
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<arkadiy>
not sure where the best place to discuss this is
<arkadiy>
we'd like our datastore (rocksdb backed) to be compatible but the interface seems like a *lot* of work to implement
<arkadiy>
and certain things (scans) we can't even support (we run rocks in point lookup mode w/o sorted keys), but I'm not sure why we need to
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<wak-work>
whyrusleeping: any timeframe for getting gx to be self hosted on ipfs?
<wak-work>
i guess i could do it myself if i wanted to
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<Geertiebear>
So I'm interested in implenting ipfs in C, I've read the specs, and linked papers on github, any other tips for starting out? (afaik there isn't a c implentation already in development)
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<Kubuxu>
no GH for me
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<ansuz>
I'm starting to move more stuff to git-ssb
<dansup>
ansuz, thank git
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<ansuz>
hi patcon :D
<arkadiy>
Kubuxu: if you use opendns GH resolves fine, btw
<patcon>
hey ansuz! i'm here to see how bustling this place becomes while the internet collapses ;)
<richardlitt>
:D
<A124>
How would one go about downstream caching from multiple nodes?
<A124>
In an efficient manner, so that the node caches each get the same hits?
<A124>
Speaking of HTTP Gateways.
<A124>
Mateon1 What is attack map?
<Mateon1>
A124: It's a live world map showing attacks detected by Norse. It's cool to watch fireworks go from china and russia (+ a bit from US) everywhere.
* whyrusleeping
back
<keks>
ansuz: do you think we can make a demo of git-ssb while this goes on?
<Kubuxu>
yeah, me and my friends think that they changed the target of the 1.5Tbps+ DDoS under which OVH was for almost two weeks
<Kubuxu>
got to love IoT
<Kubuxu>
(ip cameras connected to fiber links).
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<whyrusleeping>
wak-work: i've been avoiding making gx be self hosting just because of the annoying logistics issues that causes
<whyrusleeping>
i think if we get 'go get' working with gx, then i'd be more comfortable self hosting
<A124>
So attack map is down due to an attack?
<whyrusleeping>
otherwise it makes it hard for new users to get and install gx
<whyrusleeping>
arkadiy: you mean the query interface?
<Mateon1>
A124: And I guess, that means the Norse corp protection isn't very good, as I'd imagine they use their own service to protect their own website
<wak-work>
whyrusleeping: that makes sense
<i[m]>
It's DNS not services
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<wak-work>
whyrusleeping: it's too bad the dependency resolution in go doesn't have a good way to handle mirroring
<keks>
so what's the ip addresses? can't we just put the into /etc/hosts?
<whyrusleeping>
seriously though. go's package management realllly rustles my jimmies
<Magik6k>
I use snode to insert data, so I don't thing you need to do that
<A124>
Mateon1 You can? Socks?
<Magik6k>
*think
<Mateon1>
A124: That implies all (browser) traffic going through the pi, and I really don't want to do that at the moment.
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<Kubuxu>
ansuz: yes
<ansuz>
lol
<ansuz>
thanks Kubuxu
<ansuz>
oh wow
* ansuz
starting to see Kubuxu trolling
* ansuz
proud
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<dignifiedquire>
npmjs is down :(
<i[m]>
Everything is rekt.
<i[m]>
I'm going to take a nap at my desk.
<wak-work>
right
<Geertiebear>
So err
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<Geertiebear>
I'll repeat my question, how would I start with implementing ipfs in C?
<Mateon1>
Geertiebear: With multiformats and libp2p
<arkadiy>
whyrusleeping: hmm godocs is having trouble pulling down code from GH, maybe right now is not the best time to discuss :)
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<Geertiebear>
Mateon1: Yes, I thought starting there would be appropriate, what I don't understand is the "self-describing" part of the multiformats, what does it mean to be "self-decribing"?
<Mateon1>
Geertiebear: The first few bytes describe the format of the following bytes. Read the specs
<Geertiebear>
Oh that makes more sense, thanks
<Kubuxu>
there is already c-multihash, which is encoding and decoding hashes into multihash format
<Geertiebear>
Oh? where?
<Kubuxu>
multiformats/c-multihash
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<Mateon1>
For example, in multihash (hex): 0x 12 20 00112233445566778899aabbccddeeff00112233445566778899aabbccddeeff - 0x12 is a hash identifier, I believe that's sha256 or something similar; the second byte, 0x20 means the length of the hash is 32 bytes, with the following 32 bytes being the hash
<keks>
whyrusleeping: echo 192.30.253.112 github.com | sudo tee -a /etc/hosts
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<keks>
might be slow because that server is probably in europe but well, at least something
<Geertiebear>
Mateon1: Oh nice
<Geertiebear>
Do we have a common build system that we use for C? Or is that not decided upon yet?
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<Kubuxu>
I have no idea, when I was writing c-multihash I was using pure make
<Geertiebear>
Hm
<Geertiebear>
I love using CMake, but im not sure if people are well-versed in it?
<Geertiebear>
woops that question mark wasn't supposed to be there
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<Kubuxu>
don't look at me, I probably won't be touching C impl in any shape or form for a long time
<Geertiebear>
Oh
<Kubuxu>
IMO, it is too early for ipfs implementation in C
<ansuz>
if you write anything in C, somebody will come around and ask you why you didn't use a memory safe language
<ansuz>
eg. Rust
<Kubuxu>
js is hardly able to get feature parity and to follow dev of Golang impl
<Magik6k>
npm is dead too for me lol
<Magik6k>
GG mr. internet
<Mateon1>
Kubuxu, Geertiebear: I have to agree that it's still too early. A lot of things are still changing. We weren't(aren't?) really sure what varint format to use in multiformats until recently (and it's still not documented anywhere)
<Geertiebear>
Why is the implentation written in Golang actually? I feel like such a fundamental thing like a protocol should be written in a lower-level language, or is it just temporary, so that it can be changed as the spec changes, until we reach something solid?
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<Mateon1>
Geertiebear: High level langs are easier to change, Go is relatively fast, but the syntax is god awful
<Mateon1>
(imo)
<Geertiebear>
Node.js confuses the hell out of me
<Geertiebear>
but yeah I guess I can see why then
<ansuz>
tl;dr no matter what language it was written in, nobody would be happy
<ansuz>
therefore go
<Geertiebear>
haha
<Mateon1>
Actually, a lot of things in Golang are absolutely awful
<ansuz>
programmers are the most miserable people around
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<ansuz>
optimize for people other than programmers
<Mateon1>
The way packages work is terrible in Go - If I want to find a function implementation, I have to search all the files in a package separately, or get an IDE with tons of bloat
<ansuz>
and crypto-nerds are the absolute worst demographic when it comes to programmers
<ansuz>
kudos to ipfs devs for putting up with them
<ansuz>
you get used to it once you're potty-trained
<A124>
Mateon1 Same symptoms. Once you get to know go you might change stance. Go did confused the hell out of me the first time.
<Geertiebear>
I think it's kind of a sense of nationalism for the languages you know
<ansuz>
^
<Mateon1>
A124: First, how does Go's type system even work? Why map[string]string? What does that mean? How does that make sense?
<ansuz>
nationalism always works out for the best, as we know
<Geertiebear>
When I went from Java to CPP I was so confused at why header files existed
<Mateon1>
All I found on the internet was user defined types
<ansuz>
I'd guess that means it's a map that takes a string as an index and returns a type string
<ansuz>
I don't know go, though
<ansuz>
s/index/key
<A124>
Yes, maps have keys and values.
<ansuz>
seems simple enough
<A124>
Map was what I used for my very first program. It filters files that I already processed previous time to massively reduce IO.
<Mateon1>
I mean, I'm exxagerating, but that syntax is confusing as heck.
<ansuz>
and yet I guessed what it meant with no prior knowledge
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<A124>
I would like to find a person that got to the length to know Go and still complain about same thing. That would be interesting discussion.
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<Kubuxu>
^^ ++
<Kubuxu>
map[key]value
<ansuz>
personally, I would much rather write javascript to go
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<Kubuxu>
wait till you discover that set is `map[key]struct{}`
<Mateon1>
Also, the type []string means list of strings, is that because [] means implicitly (u)int indexed?
<Geertiebear>
omg
<ansuz>
but I'm not going to question other people's choices of language
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<ansuz>
IPFS is building software that lots of people use
<Kubuxu>
[]type is just how go defines array's/slices
<ansuz>
so they win
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<Geertiebear>
ansuz: I think one should question someones choice of languages for technical reasons, since some languages are better in some cases
<ansuz>
and you lose if you think they're wrong because we're not using your software
<ansuz>
full stop
<ansuz>
:D
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<Kubuxu>
really, IMO, Go was and still is the best choice for what go-ipfs is.
<Kubuxu>
C, too low level, same with C++.
<ansuz>
and if not, it probably doesn't matter
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<Kubuxu>
C# too much connected with M$ and limited platforms
<i[m]>
If it's not ASM it's too high level.
<Kubuxu>
Java, runtime is enormous.
<Mateon1>
i[m]: lol
<A124>
#JavaScript: "Hey, wanna go out?" #Golang: "You're not my type." #JavaScript: "What's a type?"
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<Geertiebear>
Kubuxu: Is go-ipfs just an overview of what the implementation would look like, but still remain usable?
<Mateon1>
A124: Javascript does have types
<Geertiebear>
A124: lol
<Kubuxu>
Geertiebear: there is no official spec of whole ipfs protocol stack
<Mateon1>
The 'var' just means it's dynamic types, not enforced syntactically
<ansuz>
Kubuxu: you folks really have to do something about your community
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<ansuz>
it's getting out of hand
<i[m]>
I /only/ code with cosmic rays and a magnetic needle.
<ansuz>
too much hipster
<ansuz>
^^ i[m] knows
<Mateon1>
i[m] C-x-M-x-butterfly
<Geertiebear>
Kubuxu: I know
<Kubuxu>
i[m]: I prefer, graphene and anti-carbon
<Geertiebear>
ansuz: the whole project relies on people being hipster, since its a whole new idea :D
<ansuz>
there are valid reasons to adopt new technology other than being edgy
<ansuz>
but ok
<Geertiebear>
ofc
<ansuz>
tho, if you feel like completely discounting all of the social reasons for adopting tech, go ahead
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<ansuz>
but your opinion is informed by naive assumptions
<ansuz>
:)
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<Geertiebear>
it err
<Geertiebear>
wasn't meant seriously
<Geertiebear>
;D
<ansuz>
ofc
<ansuz>
twas merely a jest
<ansuz>
moi aussi
<ansuz>
toujours
<Geertiebear>
I don't into french
<ansuz>
bah oui
<Geertiebear>
ur
<Geertiebear>
croissant
<Geertiebear>
baguette
<Geertiebear>
ou
<Geertiebear>
oui*
<keks>
|Ma
<keks>
args
<ansuz>
keks: ikr?
<keks>
wanted to type something, typed wrong, wanted to hit backspace, hit enter
<Geertiebear>
rip haha
<A124>
This is dev talk not 4chan.
<ansuz>
Not Even Once
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<keks>
Mateon1: if you want to find a function definition in Go, the easies way is to host your own godoc. if you are actually doing work in go and not just reading other peoples code this is really handy
* keks
is reading backlog
* A124
should try that.
<Mateon1>
keks: declaration/implementation in code, not description of what it does
<keks>
then...click the function name in the docs and it will show the code
<Mateon1>
Godoc was useless for me to figure out how Go gets ips for network interfaces
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<keks>
hmm, i'll try to reproduce
<keks>
(not what you think)
<Geertiebear>
lol
<Aranjedeath>
js = weak type system
<Aranjedeath>
v weak
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<Mateon1>
keks: Regarding clicking the function name... It does work for "InterfaceAddrs", but it's a wrapper function over the undocumented function called "interfaceAddrTable", which is also probably a wrapper func
<ansuz>
ohai Aranjedeath
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<ansuz>
Aranje: did someone tell you if you showed up here you'd get a free iPad?
<ansuz>
don't believe it, it's a scam
<Mateon1>
And that's another thing I dislike about Go... Checking for errors after every single function call... Slightly insane, if you ask me
<Mateon1>
Just get a proper try{}catch{}
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<Geertiebear>
ansuz: only reason im here
<Geertiebear>
: )
<ansuz>
heh
<Aranjedeath>
ohai ansuz
<ansuz>
Aranjedeath: I think ipfs should be rewritten in fortran
<ansuz>
I met lots of PhDs today who used it for scientific computing
<Aranjedeath>
I am here to recommend it be done entirely in javascript
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<ansuz>
Aranjedeath: it is done in javascript
<ansuz>
your wish is my command!
<Aranjedeath>
so that we can feed it into v8 and turn it into asm over the course of its runtime
<Mateon1>
I was recently surprised about a "Win an iThing" banner I saw at one of the sites I use that wasn't blocked by my adblocker. It turns out that site was hosting a yearly contest on it's forums.
<ansuz>
Mateon1: it's a scam
<ansuz>
even if you actually get an iPad
<Aranjedeath>
lol
<Mateon1>
Probably, even if you get iThings for free, they steal your soul-- I mean, data
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<ansuz>
no, it's more abstract than that
<Aranjedeath>
just like photos don't capture the soul, neither does data
<ansuz>
it represents the platonic ideal of a scam
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<keks>
Mateon1: I guess it boils down to preference. hint: you can do ?m=all to show unexported functions in godoc. that way you find interfaceAddrTable and see it is no wrapper
<Mateon1>
keks: Not in Zeal, and I am having trouble browsing the online docs so no ?all for me
<keks>
anyway, this is getting silly. I for one hate reading JS
<Mateon1>
Fair enough, JS has some terrible things, and people enforce those terrible things with linters. For example, "standard.js" tries to enforce "no semicolons" and when that would break something because a line started with (), [] or ++/--, it asks to PREPEND the offending line with a semicolon
<Mateon1>
Heresy
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<Aranjedeath>
I'm just going to keep recommending everyone write everything in js so it gets vacuumed into turbofan
<aeschylus>
How can I confirm that floodsub is present?
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<dignifiedquire>
aeschylus: download for your os, and then extract and then run with ./ipfs daemon --enable-pubsub-experiment
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<dignifiedquire>
it will fail to start if pubsub is not abailable
<aeschylus>
I got it mostly working, but it wasn't being picked up in my path despite changing it and refreshing .zshrc
<aeschylus>
Using the hard path to the more recent version to run it, the command ran, but there was already a repository there, asking me to migrate it.
<flyingzumwalt>
kubuxu do you have a recommendation for nuking your current installation?
<aeschylus>
./ipfs config replace config.json
<aeschylus>
Error: setting private key with API is not supported
<flyingzumwalt>
oh. sorry kubuxu. i see you already answered.
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<Kubuxu>
aeschylus: you have to either remove PrivKey value from the config.json
<Kubuxu>
or the manual way is to copy and replace it into ~/.ipfs/config
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<flyingzumwalt>
FYI world: if you want to nuke ipfs but don't know where the datastore is, run `ipfs config show` and look for the Datastore.Path You want to delete the parent directory of that path. Example: my Datastore.Path is ~/.ipfs/datastore so I would want to delete ~/.ipfs
<flyingzumwalt>
On windows, that path is different.