<kulelu88>
voxelot: writing code for it seems pretty 'simple', it uses Python. I'm not sure if IPFS has a Python wrapper
<voxelot>
np!
<voxelot>
kulelu88: there is a python wrapper, not sure if it's maintained though
<kulelu88>
voxelot: what do you use IPFS for?
<voxelot>
right now my big thing is using it to store large amounts of data in blockchains, to alieviate blockchain scaling problem #3298472 blockchain bloat
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<kulelu88>
actual blockchain data or regular data that could be stored in blockchains?
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<voxelot>
anything really, i've used it before to store meta data on registry items, identity systems can hash attributes and attach those attributes to a pubic key.
<voxelot>
I just recently built a platform that pays people to host ipfs files for someone else
<voxelot>
so uploading a file to blockchain now is just a 32 byte hash instead of the file size
<kulelu88>
it's nice to meet someone else to discuss these kinds of things with. I made the mistake of asking this stuff in channels like #bitcoin , where the level of crazy was scary
<kulelu88>
the 32 byte hash stores the link to the IPFS file?
<voxelot>
haha cool, yeah try #bitcoin-wizards, haven't been there in awhile but i knew some interesting people in there once
<voxelot>
yup, right now i'm using ethereum contracts to store 32 bytes of the 34 byte ipfs multihash
<voxelot>
evm can only store 32 so i trim the Qm multihash header off and assume sha256
<kulelu88>
is everything distributed? hosting as well? (eg. zeronet website)
<voxelot>
yup, you can access my app via localhost ipfs gatewy
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<kulelu88>
wow, that is 1 awesome project. you work on it full time?
<fleeky__>
question : i was trying to do some basic tests yesterday , added an image file, could look at it locally but when trying to access it from ipfs.io/ipfs/#hash , no dice.. is there some detail that i am missing with this part of #ipfs that i am not doing right ?
<kulelu88>
fleeky__: is the file being seeded?
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<fleeky__>
you mean pinned or is seeded a different thing <-- newb
<voxelot>
kulelu88: fulltime in my underwear on my couch haha, that's just been something I wanted to build in my free time
<fleeky__>
voxelot: your project looks pretty awesome
<fleeky__>
a simpler version of storj in a way?
<kulelu88>
fleeky__: my assumption of how IPFS works is that the file needs to be seeded to be 'seen'
<fleeky__>
i thought that i could access any hash via any gateway on ipfs ?
<kulelu88>
nice voxelot .
<fleeky__>
as in the gateway would then just point back to my computer that has the file through the dht ?
* fleeky__
just wants to do hyperbasic image and txt sharing with a few friends over ipfs as a test
<voxelot>
when you add something a provider message is sent so peers know you have something, but won't get it unless it's requested
<kulelu88>
I wish I understood more to help you fleeky__
<fleeky__>
voxelot: but i was making a request through ipfs.io/ipfs/#hash ?
<voxelot>
and yeah storj is still way better, just wanted to implement something for IPFS and ethereum
<voxelot>
actually talking to storj tomorrow to see where they are
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<voxelot>
fleeky__: right so a request sent to ipfs.io will have their daemon request that hash
<fleeky__>
yeah but it never returned the hash?
<fleeky__>
can it be explained away by a shitty network connection on my end ?
<voxelot>
which means that it couldn't find it on your machine
<fleeky__>
but i can find it locally?
<voxelot>
sometimes it takes a minute
<fleeky__>
through localhost
<voxelot>
right
<fleeky__>
went for like 10 minutes ;)
<kulelu88>
probably propagating
<voxelot>
the ipfs.io gateways are usually really fast for me on images and decent sized video
<fleeky__>
i guess i should try the test from a box with a stronger connection
<fleeky__>
it *could* be this connection which is admittedly pretty bad
<voxelot>
but i have good connections
<kulelu88>
what is your upload speed? fleeky__
<fleeky__>
the connection that i am is really really bad
<fleeky__>
so it could be that .. i was just wondering if there was even a way to verify that the hash is atleast propogated
<kulelu88>
find a peer using the same ISP that is near you
<voxelot>
but if they hvent requested it then that wont work
<fleeky__>
do you use ipfs-dht-findprovs to figure out if your connected peers have it ?
* fleeky__
reads up on the link
<fleeky__>
so the key i provide would be the hash ?
<fleeky__>
for findprovs?
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<voxelot>
yeah, it just looks at the dht records and returns the peer ids of those who can serve that hash
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<fleeky__>
getting lots of dial attempt failed
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<achin>
Kubuxu: just saw your new metrics stuff for ipfs! cool! i'm looking forward to seeing new stuff to graph in prometheus
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<deltab>
seeded means there is some provider of the data online
<deltab>
oops
<achin>
scrolled up? :)
<deltab>
yeah :-)
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<whyrusleeping>
Gooood shanghainese morning to y'all
<achin>
why hello why
<achin>
what brings you to that part of the world?
<stigo>
nihao :)
<whyrusleeping>
achin: theres some ethereum conference thing going on
<whyrusleeping>
watching some talks, wearing a filecoin t-shirt
<whyrusleeping>
the usual
<achin>
cool
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<sdgathman>
I just got through explaining IPFS to a friend. He doesn't want to risk having contraband (child porn, etc) cached on his machine. Is there a way to address that other than caching only stuff you visit?
<achin>
is that explaintion not sufficient?
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<achin>
it's the right answer -- your IPFS node will never request data that you did not ask for (either directly or indirectly)
<sdgathman>
It would be nice to be less of a "leech". I talked to a Big Company guy who was planning to use a blacklist for anything the government tells them they shouldn't cache.
<achin>
yes, blacklists will work, too, but only if you trust the blacklist to be complete
<sdgathman>
I thought there might be some magic way to encrypt the data so you could only retrieve it by hash - and couldn't list the hashes in the cache.
<sdgathman>
The Big Company just needs to be able to instantly blacklist anything the government complains about.
<achin>
retrieving data by hash is the only way to retrieve data. i'm not sure i understand the encryption idea
<sdgathman>
I intuitively think there must be a data structure that allows retrieval by specific hash, but doesn't allow traversal.
<achin>
if i understand you correctly, no. an ipfs "directory" is just a list of names and the hash of the data associated with each name
<sdgathman>
I know that. This would be a internal data structure used by the cache.
<sdgathman>
So that you can't see what's in the cache - only retrieve specific hashes.
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<achin>
i'm sorry, i'm still not fully understanding your proposal
<sdgathman>
Although that doesn't really protect you from the government. They can still test whether you have the Forbidden Hash.
<achin>
say i have a cache that contains items A, B, C. you're saying that i should be able to ask for item "C" from the cache, but not ask the cache "what items do you contain?" ?
<sdgathman>
Yes
<achin>
and this cache is actually the ipfs data cache running on each node?
<sdgathman>
Whatever nodes care about it. It doesn't affect the protocol at all.
<sdgathman>
But since it doesn't really solve the Frame Up problem, it's just an interesting idea.
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<achin>
note that ipfs nodes in-general kinda act like this.
<achin>
your node can't ask my node "give me a list of all hashes you have". but you *can* ask my node "do you have this specific hash"
<sdgathman>
Sure, but when the government raids your house and takes your server, they'll go on a fishing expedition in the cache.
<achin>
in that case, they'll see everything
<achin>
how might you build an unsearchable cache? i don't know if that's possible, but it's an intriguing idea
<achin>
but as you say, it doesn't really solve the problem
<achin>
maybe you have to do something like encrypt the data with its own hash?
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<i[m]>
A tough problem imo.
<i[m]>
One that needs mathy guarantees
<i[m]>
Maybe outside the scope of the project?
<achin>
likely, yes
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<Ralith>
achin: that seems clever, but pointless if the hashes of contraband are known
<achin>
yes, but i would propose that you would never enumerate every bit of contraband
<Ralith>
yeah, it has value
<Ralith>
and I suspect there's no way to do better than that, come to think of it
<achin>
i don't know the right terms to search for, but i would bet this idea (a key/value store that encrypts each value with its hash) has been written up in some academic paper
<achin>
it would be fun to implement!
<sdgathman>
achin: thanks for the confirmation
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<whyrusleeping>
The 0.4.3 rc fixes have been merged into master
<whyrusleeping>
so anyone building off of master will notice a few more nice improvements, primarily a more reliable removal of blocks from your wantlists after requests get cancelled
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<whyrusleeping>
so happy that gx works on the shitty near-zero bandwidth wifi here
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<dignifiedquire>
whyrusleeping: that's i pretty awesome to hear
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<krzysiekj>
Hello. ipfs cat QmYwAPJzv5CZsnA625s3Xf2nemtYgPpHdWEz79ojWnPbdG returns “Error: this dag node is a directory”. Is there a command that allows displaying raw object content?
<krzysiekj>
Does ipfs cat use some heuristics to detect whether an object is a DAG object or raw object and displays either unpacked content or raw content, respectively?
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<pinkieval>
krzysiekj: ipfs ls
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<krzysiekj>
pinkieval: ipfs ls QmYwAPJzv5CZsnA625s3Xf2nemtYgPpHdWEz79ojWnPbdG > foo and then ipfs add -n foo yields a different hash, so ipfs ls does not display raw content.
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<pinkieval>
maybe ipfs object get?
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<pinkieval>
but your ipfs add thing can't work, because ipfs is not supposed to read the content of files to know if it's a directory or not
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<krzysiekj>
ipfs object get outputs serialized object (looks like JSON), so I presume it is not the raw format.
<krzysiekj>
If ipfs add packs file into the DAG container, then is there any command to store raw file in IPFS?
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<pinkieval>
ipfs object new?
<pinkieval>
then ipfs object patch?
<krzysiekj>
ipfs object patch creates “a new merkledag object”, so it is not suitable.
<pinkieval>
why not?
<krzysiekj>
Because the purpose is to store raw data as byte stream, not a packed merkledag object.
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<krzysiekj>
ipfs object get QmYwAPJzv5CZsnA625s3Xf2nemtYgPpHdWEz79ojWnPbdG is 559 bytes in size, but ipfs object stat QmYwAPJzv5CZsnA625s3Xf2nemtYgPpHdWEz79ojWnPbdG return CumulativeSize of 6376. Strange.
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<Kubuxu>
achin: yeah, it should be much easier to do now
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<Kubuxu>
which means I should finally rework the datastore metrics
<achin>
woot
<Kubuxu>
because they are the reason for the change
<Kubuxu>
as they were the most memory hungry component in low memory mode...
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<krzysiekj>
Related question: does IPFS protocol assume that an URI in ipfs:// format always references a DAG object? Are “raw byte stream objects” allowed in the network?
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<Mateon1>
krzysiekj: It is actually `ipfs object get`, however the native format for ipfs is protobuf, so you need to `ipfs object get hash --enc=protobuf > file` and then `ipfs add file` should return the original hash.
<Mateon1>
krzysiekj: Note that this only returns a single DAG node, not the whole file, so if the file is larger than 256kB, the node will only contain links to other hashes, that actually have the data
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<Mateon1>
krzysiekj: And about your second question, an IPFS hash always contains a DAG node, but it doesn't have to be in unixfs format.
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<rugu>
Hey guys!
<krzysiekj>
Mateon1: Thanks. ipfs add returns a different hash, but I guess it is because the raw content gets additionally packed as a DAG object.
<Mateon1>
krzysiekj: Actually, I don't think it should, let me try that
<rugu>
Has anyone worked on decentralized communication before?
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<keks>
hey everyone, I want to fix the go import paths, e.g. rewrite github.com/jbenet/go-multiaddr -> github.com/multiformats/go-multiaddr
<Mateon1>
krzysiekj: Odd, it seems to be `ipfs object put --enc=protobuf filename`
<keks>
is there somewhere an easily parsable list of repos that belong to the ipfs ecosystem?
<keks>
i was thinking about a list of organizations that operate under the ipfs/libp2p umbrella as well as a simple list of their repos
<keks>
i tried using some github api cli but that didn't work so well
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<krzysiekj>
Mateon1: Well, ipfs object get QmYwAPJzv5CZsnA625s3Xf2nemtYgPpHdWEz79ojWnPbdG --enc=protobuf > foo and then ipfs object put --enc=protobuf foo yields “Error: invalid character '\x12' looking for beginning of value”.
<lgierth>
keks: we generally try to have all repos in one of these orgs: ipfs, libp2p, multiformats, ipld
<lgierth>
krzysiekj: i think you might need to use --enc=json, shells and binary data aren't the best friends
<keks>
lgierth: thanks. i'm trying to get gcli to list all repos in these orgs
<lgierth>
keks: which impots are you having problems with at the moment? i fixed one the other night
<keks>
well there is the gx imports vs github imports thing
<keks>
and then there is the jbenet/ma and manet that bites me quite often
<keks>
i'm trying to use go-libp2p-transport, which only works when you use the gx import for the utp lib
<keks>
but rewriting more stuff results in go complaining about "gx/ipfs/...".Multiaddr is not "jbenet/go-multiaddr".Multiaddr
<keks>
yeah thats what i want to do, but i want to run a script over all repos
<keks>
because fixing it in 50% of the places only makes it worse
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<lgierth>
:)
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<krzysiekj>
lgierth, Mateon1: Actually it was my mistake, used --enc instead of --inputenc.
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<lgierth>
ah good to know
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<keks>
script worked pretty well, preparing PRs
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<lgierth>
nice
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<lgierth>
another thing to check is whether package.json has the correct dvcsimport set
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<keks>
lgierth: good point, didn't do that yet
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<victorbjelkholm>
is there any examples on usage of the "ipfs dht" commands?
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<lgierth>
victorbjelkholm: i often use it to debug hanging fetches. ipfs dht findprovs <hash>, that spits out peerids for use with ipfs dht findpeer <peerid>, which gives you multiaddrs for ipfs swarm commands
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<victorbjelkholm>
lgierth, yeah, I guess that works for a specific use case, I'm looking more general. Was expecting I could put stuff there with `ipfs dht put <key> <value>` and then `ipfs dht get <key>` to get the value, but can't get it to work
<lgierth>
victorbjelkholm: i think there was a discussion about dht get/put somewhere
<lgierth>
eeh get and put exist, haha
<krzysiekj>
It looks that actually the simples way to interact with raw data is the ipfs block command. And you can put raw byte streams into IPFS by executing ipfs block put.
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<lgierth>
krzysiekj: but make sure to do your own chunking. there's a limit on blocksize that bitswap will transfer
<lgierth>
victorbjelkholm: well give it a try and see what doesn't fit yet -- we can improve on it. also write up what you do :)
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<krzysiekj>
lgierth: That’s not an issue currently. We’re designing a system of electronic documentation managament which will have somewhat similar properties as IPFS (data stored as Merkle trees for timestamping and tampering prevention), but…
<krzysiekj>
… data distribution will be probably done differently, especially because IPFS has no permission system.
<lgierth>
krzysiekj: word -- sounds great
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<lgierth>
krzysiekj: did you check out libp2p? :) many more transports coming, circuit switching, packet switching
<krzysiekj>
The system of content-based addressing (multihash) in IPFS looks attractive and I was wondering whether it is possible to use it without being tied to the IPFS’s DAG object format. From what I’ve read it looks however that it would be an abuse.
<krzysiekj>
lgierth: Not checked lib2p yet, will take a look. :)
<lgierth>
you're totally encouraged to use multihash with whatever you're dealing with
<lgierth>
actually we ran into the very problem you're describing ^ (being locked into a specific data format) while integrating IPLD into IPFS
<lgierth>
they're a format for content-addressing *any* data
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<HansMeiser[m]>
Hi Guys
<victorbjelkholm>
lgierth, ah, I did, and content I put in, I can't get back, not sure if I'm understanding correctly or if I'm using it incorrectly
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<krzysiekj>
lgierth: Well, as Mateon1 wrote, “an IPFS hash always contains a DAG node”, so if I point someone to an ipfs:// address, then the first thing he will do after fetching the object will be unpacking it according to the IPFS format.
<lgierth>
victorbjelkholm: can't get on the same machine? you might have to `ipfs dht provide`
<krzysiekj>
Similarly: I can return some raw data in response to a HTTP request, but it would be a violation of HTTP.
<victorbjelkholm>
lgierth, yeah, same machine. Provide with my key (testing with "/ipns/Qmd8NQQCMdQfBDMMecvjLkv2EJVJ6SJSfmmvj7xGETLVXN") gives me: Error: selected encoding not supported
<lgierth>
krzysiekj: not anymore with CIDs -- note that ipfs:// is only a legacy scheme and doesn't represent how paths work in ipfs
<lgierth>
krzysiekj: the actual scheme is fs:, e.g. fs:/ipfs/<hash>
<lgierth>
the /ipfs and /ipns namespaces define certain semantics, but they don't care what the data actually is
<lgierth>
it has always been just merkledag+protobuf, but soon it's IPLD
<lgierth>
or any other kind of data
<lgierth>
the CIDs are a means of dealing with that
<ion>
ipfs:// with two slashes shouldn't exist anywhere
<lgierth>
(note that the gateway currently always expects unixfs objects)
<lgierth>
yeah wherever you see people use ipfs://, explain that it's fs:, without the slashes
<lgierth>
ipfs:// has two slashes so it's a uri scheme which requires an authority (host), but that concept doesn't exist in ipfs. no-slash schemes don't have an authority
<krzysiekj>
lgierth: I will dig into the topic, sounds great. :)
<ion>
ipfs://ipfs/hash will also break all relative links
<ion>
Well, absolute within IPFS, but relative from the point of URIs
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<lgierth>
heh yeah because the path is /hash and the host is ipfs
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<keks>
is there a good way to update all gx repos that are influenced by a change? i changed multiaddr and now need to change basically every package
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<Kubuxu>
keks: no, that is the problem we are having currently
<Kubuxu>
:.
<Kubuxu>
://
<keks>
hm okay
<keks>
yeah that takes a lot of time
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<Kubuxu>
Yeah, but I might have idea about making it easier.
<pinbot>
now pinning /ipfs/Qmez5jG2HYFz6W4S7uEJkjyZDBPBaKKwThV5G2BnggNypj
<Kubuxu>
hmm looks like pollux might have problems with connections
<achin>
can anyone point me to some docs or code that describes how ipfs records which objects are pinned directly, and what objects are indirectly pinned? (and are indirect pins reference counted?)
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<Kubuxu>
achin: I don't have any docs: we store pin root hash, that links all pinned files
<pinbot>
[host 4] failed to grab refs for /ipfs/Qmez5jG2HYFz6W4S7uEJkjyZDBPBaKKwThV5G2BnggNypj: Post http://[fc3d:9a4e:3c96:2fd2:1afa:18fe:8dd2:b602]:5001/api/v0/refs?arg=/ipfs/Qmez5jG2HYFz6W4S7uEJkjyZDBPBaKKwThV5G2BnggNypj&encoding=json&stream-channels=true&r=true&: dial tcp [fc3d:9a4e:3c96:2fd2:1afa:18fe:8dd2:b602]:5001: getsockopt: connection timed out
<achin>
does IPFS have a good home for these types of "internal" documentation?
<lgierth>
achin: dump it in ipfs/faq i'd say
<achin>
k
<lgierth>
as a preliminary inbox for wtfm
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<achin>
bonus points for rendering that stuff as nice html, and host on ipfs itself
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<achin>
i'll add a "write faq entry about pinning and GC" to my todo list
<lgierth>
my last try with wtfm was like 2 years ago, with fedwiki :)
<lgierth>
achin: kk so we'll direct future gc questions to you haha
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<Kubuxu>
:p
<achin>
clever lgierth i see what you did there
<Kubuxu>
achin from now on is out GC manual :p
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<achin>
it would be interesting to explore an out-of-tree pinning/GC solution that involves reference counting. the trade off is that recursively pinning an object requires more time and space, but later you can look at any given hash and know instantly if it can be GCd
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<chriscool>
Hi everyone!
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<lgierth>
alu: not in freenode i think, try #seattlemeshnet in efnet. they don't have regular meetings though since it's only 2 people left ;)
<lgierth>
pretty good people though
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<asdfsdfsdfs>
What is inpm? README is docless.
<asdfsdfsdfs>
Does it mirror npm locally or something?
<asdfsdfsdfs>
Will it let me use npm offline?
<asdfsdfsdfs>
I live in middle of woods and don't have internet 99% of the time, but would like to tinker with npm packages. :O
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<asdfsdfsdfs>
Gotta boogie. Could someone please add some docs to that readme?
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<lgierth>
voxelot: inpm is your iirc? ^
<voxelot>
lgierth: i wrote ippm haha, similar but a bit different than daviddias registry mirror which i believe became ipfs-npm
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<voxelot>
asdfsdfsdfs: yeah it creates a local mirror to ipfs so it's good if you're around a bunch of other node devs locally since it registers to ipfs hashes and ipfs can do mdns lookups
<voxelot>
could be help you in the woods
<voxelot>
in the same way ipfs does with working in remote places
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<voxelot>
also you cache modules in ipfs so when you are offline you can still install
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<voxelot>
actually it looks like inpm is older than registry mirror, daviddias would know what's up with that repo
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<lgierth>
yeah we finally need to get registry-mirror together. the only things missing are 1) directory sharding 2) polish
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<voxelot>
ohh right, sharding
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<lgierth>
whyrusleeping had a prototype of sharding a while ago
<lgierth>
hopefully in 0.5.0 :)
<zero-one>
sharting prototype
<wak-work>
sharding between many ipfs daemons?
<keks>
i guess such that not every ipfs node needs to store all the most current hashes of every module
<achin>
needed for the same reasons -- keep things small
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<achin>
in [1], i manually sharded^H^H^^H^H^H^H^Hchunked based on a hash of the name. it would be fun to experiment with using the same trie that whyrusleeping implemented (or trie the PR itself)
<Kubuxu>
not using it right now and the experiment will be running on all nodes soon (tm) as all of them will have metrics
<lgierth>
Kubuxu: is it on master?
<lgierth>
then neptune and mercury have it now
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<Kubuxu>
yes
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<Aranjedeath>
hey I'm going to report something I'll nominally call a bug: whatever ipfs does that listens on port 4001: it sets its own soacceptqueue, and it sets it to 128 irrelevant of what the OS has set
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