lgierth changed the topic of #ipfs to: go-ipfs v0.4.10 is out! https://dist.ipfs.io/#go-ipfs | Dev chat: #ipfs-dev | IPFS, the InterPlanetary FileSystem: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs | FAQ: https://git.io/voEh8 | Logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/ipfs/ | Code of Conduct: https://git.io/vVBS0
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<whyrusleeping> IsaacDunlap[m]: Yeah, the shutdown one is probably a better place to start looking at it now
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<whyrusleeping> You could put the shtudown code in a goroutine in a defer in the command. That way it runs once the command is done, but doesnt block the command from finishing. That *should* work, but its hard to tell
<whyrusleeping> That said, there is some merit in having the shutdown command wait until the daemon is actually shutdown (or wait as long as possible)
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<ajbouh> is there an IPFS recommendation for e2e encryption of file data?
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<mog> does ipfs name publish cause a complete sync of the directory? or is it just attaching hashes
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<Mateon1> mog: It only tells the network that the /ipns name (by default your peer ID) should resolve to the hash you give it
<Mateon1> Other people will still have to get the data from you
<Mateon1> But now you have an /ipns name that doesn't change when you update the content
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<lemmi> Mateon1: then you need to republish a new hash under that name
<Mateon1> lemmi: I know that, I meant the /ipns hash itself doesn't change, even though the content it points to does
<lemmi> Mateon1: oh the last sentence sounded like a complaint :)
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<NfNitLoop> *wave* I haven't looked into ipfs in a long while. It seems there's a new JS implementation since I looked. Watching this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv_Teb--1zg it seems the browser is able to communicate with IPFS? How on earth is that working? is there some server working as a gateway for them via websockets?
<Kubuxu> you can run websocket connections on your go-ipfs node (not very simple right now as it has to be ssl terminated externally), it can also communicate with js-ipfs nodes in nodejs
<Kubuxu> via websockets (IDK if the same SSL thing applies) and webrtc (node and browsers)
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<NfNitLoop> Yeah. I guess the library used in that video is doing webrtc/websocket connections to *something* but it doesn't go into detail there.
<NfNitLoop> It's presented as if "Oh look I'm just serving static files."
<Kubuxu> it does a connection to other nodes
<Kubuxu> file probably is somewhere pinned by us
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<NfNitLoop> also last time I looked into ipfs there ewas some issue (IIRC, which I may not) where ipns entries would only last for 24 hours which meant you had to redo them constantly or ipns would stop resolving? Is that right? Is that still the case?
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<Kubuxu> For your peerid, node was republishing every 12h since forever
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<Kubuxu> for `ipfs key` part it was recently fixed
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<Kubuxu> not sure if it was released or not
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<Kubuxu> yes it is in 0.4.10
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<NfNitLoop> aha. WHy does it need to be republished? Isn't it just some object findable in the DHT?
<NfNitLoop> So you still have the problem if your node is offline (and not republishing), even though the content might be cached elsewhere?
<Kubuxu> because we have to vacate data from DHT, otherwise old inaccurate entries would keep accumulating
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<NfNitLoop> aaaah, right, because they can get replaced by newer entries as you update, which invalidates the old ones. So they just have a timestamp, after which they expire?
<NfNitLoop> Once pubsub is stable, you could just expire them when new versions are published instead of relying on timeouts?
<NfNitLoop> maybe that's not reliable enough.
<NfNitLoop> If you have any one node that doesn't get the pubsub, it just serves old data for who knows how long.
<NfNitLoop> It is unfortunate to need to keep a running node w/ your key to have a mutable address space, even if the data is pinned elsewhere.
<Kubuxu> it is also protection against downgrade attacks
<NfNitLoop> Could have a sortof "internet (IPFS) archive" which periodically saves a snapshot of ipns contents so they're findable if they fall out of the DHT. Could also serve as a history for changes to those things. Hmm, fun weekend project for me maybe. :p
<Kubuxu> let's say you distribute software upgrades via IPFS, there is critical upgrade, released shortly after buggy version was released
<Kubuxu> without the timeout I could try isolating you from the network and keep feeding you the bad version forever
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<NfNitLoop> Kubuxu: aaah, interesting.
<Kubuxu> yeah, this would be awesome (and for sure something that will get done in future).
<Kubuxu> also imagine bookmarks that instead of storing one link (IPNS) also store (IPFS) just in case the IPNS disappears
<NfNitLoop> But OTOH if you isolate me from the network, I still can't get the new content because I can't get the new hash. In the case of a critical software update, sure, it's preferable to get nothing.
<NfNitLoop> But in the case of wanting to read a wiki, slightly outdated content is better than nothing.
<Kubuxu> yes, but after 12h you will know something is up and you can raise a flag
<NfNitLoop> ah yeah.
<Kubuxu> also you can decrease the 12h to something lower
<NfNitLoop> that's fair. If you bookmark both, you can choose to read the old content.
<NfNitLoop> Are there any tools which do that currently? Or is that theoretical? :)
<Kubuxu> re: bookmarks, you could also store links to whole history
<Kubuxu> IDK any such tool but I know it would be awesome
<Kubuxu> we might try integrating something like that to Brave in close future
<Kubuxu> IPFS support for Brave is landing
<NfNitLoop> Interesting. That might get me back to using it again.
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<NfNitLoop> Would be cool if there were a standard for making IPNS URNs with fallback static hashes.
<NfNitLoop> So you could link to some content via Twitter/whatever, it gets popular and cached, your node gets knocked offline, those trying to access it after 12h get a warning that the ipns entry is expired, but they can still get at the cached content.
<NfNitLoop> y'know, that would be easy enough to wrap in a little script. static_hash/index.html w/ some JS that checks the ipns link and falls back to a static hash.
<NfNitLoop> Then you just publish the first static hash, which can get updated via ipns if it's online.
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<NfNitLoop> (Assuming you want to serve webby content.) :p
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<benjamingr_> Hey wow, this looks huge :O I'm Benjamin, I work with Node.js and I'm a developer at Peer5 (we do distributed and fair video delivery)
<benjamingr_> I ran into ipfs by looking at code moshisushi wrote - looks very nice :)
<lgierth> ah hi there!
<lgierth> aware of peer5 but have to admit i haven't tried it out myself yet -- not much of a webdev
<benjamingr_> IPFS looks really cool, if you ever need a friend to push something in Node.js let me know - I'm core and would love to help
<lgierth> victorbjelkholm dignifiedquire daviddias ^^^ :)
<lgierth> we have a growing wishlist for web platform APIs, but there's probably also a thing or two for node.js
<lgierth> i could imagine you'd also have a use for webrtc in serviceworkers in peer5?
<benjamingr_> We use WebRTC, we don't always use service workers
<benjamingr_> Most of the code in Peer5 is a lot of really smart algorithms for video delivery and connecting to peers. It's a very different concern than IPFS, I wasn't aware of IPFS but it looks really cool.
<benjamingr_> The founders of Peer5 actually built some really cool stuff for distributing files in browsers a while back https://github.com/Peer5/ShareFest - doesn't look nearly as low level as IPFS but it was still cool :D
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<daviddias> Hi benjamingr_ o/
<daviddias> Welcome! :)
<daviddias> Let's see, I've open a couple of issues in Node.js core of things that would be super handy
<daviddias> Currently following the issue on WebWorkers very closely https://github.com/nodejs/worker/issues/4#issuecomment-326108086
<daviddias> In the past I brought up that factoring out tests would be useful so that we can tests shims we use https://github.com/nodejs/testing/issues/50
<daviddias> we had to fix browserify-zlib and deal with a fork which caused a lot of confusion for a year since the bundlers would assume that browserify-zlib was complete (when it wasn't). Now that is good that dignifiedquire became a maintainer of browserify-zlib, still. Having all the tests of core running through the shims would be ideal
<daviddias> also because of the new Node.js core impl of http2 and the current existing one of https://github.com/spdy-http2
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<daviddias> One not so urgent but still valuable is related with the Node.js crypto library https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/2833 . Why don't we have RSA Key Gen exposed in the Crypto Module?
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<daviddias> actually, let me open an issue about that specifically
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<benjamingr_> Anna is going to work on easier workers this weekend :)
<benjamingr_> It's actually not hard to add threads, the question is what you mean by adding threads. Threads_a_gogo existed 5 years ago. There were two efforts to enable multithreading , with the closest to merging being https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/1159 which my friend Petka wrote
<benjamingr_> The problem is serialization which is tricky
<benjamingr_> (I tagged your crypto issue for you and pinged the team)
<daviddias> thank you!
<benjamingr_> Workers are hard because of the serialization. V8 works with isolates and isolates can't share objects on the heap easily, there are tricks but the overhead is currently very big. There is no big technical reason node cluster doesn't thread at the moment but multi-processes instead
<daviddias> benjamingr_: re: threads - True, I was already around when the rave was about the cluster module. If I recall correctly it was always because a child proc could lock all the other ones as the comm was sync
<benjamingr_> Yeah, it's suboptimal, the problem is that fixing it requires changing a lot of files and a lot of time, so collaborators who've attempted to do so haven't done too well so far. Anna said she'll actually have a PR by _this Friday_ about worker support. It might take a year to land though since it'll probably be touching a gazillion files :D
<daviddias> benjamingr_: I see. What about just having workers that expose a message passing API. There would be clear parts of js-ipfs that could work completely isolated and just expose a simple message interface to announce the results or to ingest data (e.e any a unixfs file add)
<benjamingr_> It'll be a message passing API anyway (that's the best V8 can do in its current architecture)
<daviddias> benjamingr_: I see. Well, if a year is what it takes (specially with the release cycle) it is not that horrible
<benjamingr_> I'll talk to refack about the testing separation issue, it could be something we throw new collaborators at once we figure the API out which is always nice
<daviddias> rad!
<benjamingr_> I don't monitor the release cycle very carefully, I just run master :D If you need anything else feel free to ping me here, in #node-dev or via email (benji at peer5 dot com)
<daviddias> got it. Likewise! Let me know if IPFS gives you troubles, happy to help :) thanks!
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<dignifiedquire> benjamingr_: as far as I know v8 has support for sharedarraybuffer, will that be sth we can use to share memory with that solution? I am happy to do lower level handling, but having a single shared memory primitive at least would be realy great
<lgierth> victorbjelkholm: the ci.ipfs.team metrics looks exactly as the real diskspace -- metrics report 3.14 GiB avail, df -h reports 3.2G avail
<benjamingr_> dignifiedquire: you're right, SharedArrayBuffer isn't really a V8 API (it's a DOM API), there isn't an inherent problem with something like shared memory as long as it's not JS objects.
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<benjamingr_> That is, if we limit sharing to buffers it's entirely possible, and we did it with Petka's PR, hopefully Anna's PR this weekend can work
<dignifiedquire> that would be great, I will keep my eyes open for that PR
<dignifiedquire> sth else that comes to mind is how support for the planned threads wasm will factor in
<dignifiedquire> as far as I know those would be done very likely somewhere in v8 if they get support
<benjamingr_> I really hope we have this solved at the platform level at some point. The basic V8 building block is an Isolate which has a heap, you can't move things from the heap of one isolate to another or share them.
<benjamingr_> You can have two points to the same raw memory though, but that's not serialized JS and doesn't get GC etc, that's part of why things like wasm are so appealing
<dignifiedquire> (ref for anyone reading this: https://github.com/WebAssembly/threads)
<dignifiedquire> yes, it would be really nice to have a proper solution on the platform level
<benjamingr_> Node.js is always looking for collaborators and contributors if you're ever up for trying to help with that by the way :)
<dignifiedquire> thanks, I will start doing so as soon as I figure out the 48h day :)
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<benjamingr_> Haha, fair enough - I figured offering would be in order :)
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<daviddias> IPLD Deep Dives Aug 31 starting in a sec - https://github.com/ipfs/pm/issues/484#issuecomment-326244129
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<nobot4[m]> daviddias: Would IPLD have functionality like https://solidplatform.org/ ? E.g. contact info etc.
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<lgierth> not ipld itself, but you could model something like solid as a data structure that fulfill's the ipld model's requirements
<lgierth> then solid data could interoperate with other ipld-style data
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<lgierth> the main requirement is addressing data by its hash (content addressing)
<lgierth> this turns data into a directed acyclic graph (DAG), so that's a restriction on traditional semantic web data
<lgierth> so some data might have to be remodeled a bit, but the gains are so great
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<nobot4[m]> lgierth: That would be nice, thanks
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<NfNitLoop> Oops. Installed brew ipfs. Apparently I had a version 2 repo, which is old. :p Ran the repo migration steps from https://github.com/ipfs/fs-repo-migrations/blob/master/run.md, but it upgraded me to version 6, but Homebrew's ipfs only supports version 5?
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<NfNitLoop> ipfs suggests I "run a migration in reverse" to get back to v5. if I try to fs-repo-migrations -to 5, it tells me that I'm already newer than that.
<Mateon1> Yep, I think you might have to do it manually
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<Mateon1> NfNitLoop: If you manually compile the 5-to-6 repo migration, you can use the --revert flax on the binary you get
<Mateon1> flag*
<daviddias> nobot4[m]: sorry, was on the IPLD call. Will publish the recording and share the url once it is uploaded
<daviddias> NfNitLoop: what does `ipfs version` give you?
<daviddias> better `ipfs version --all`
<NfNitLoop> May be easier to just use my backup and go 2->5 again. But I'm filing an issue about it on fs-repo-migrations. It shouldn't upgrade you past what your ipfs supports!
<NfNitLoop> go-ipfs version: 0.4.10-4679f80
<NfNitLoop> Repo version: 5
<NfNitLoop> System version: amd64/darwin
<NfNitLoop> Golang version: go1.8.3
<nobot4[m]> daviddias: thx
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<NfNitLoop> also have a weird issue where the 3-to-4 migration fails on the first pass but succeeds on the 2nd. *shrug*
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<Kubuxu> we are preparing for new release so migration for not yet merged PR is there
<Kubuxu> I suppose you built if from source
<Kubuxu> if that is true: build the `ipfs-5-6`
<Kubuxu> `ipfs-5-to-6`
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<Kubuxu> and run it with `./ipfs-5-to-6 -revert -path=$YOUR_REPO_PATH`
<Kubuxu> sorry you got cough in that
<Kubuxu> it is better to download migrations from https://dist.ipfs.io
<Kubuxu> NfNitLoop: ^^
<NfNitLoop> ah, thanks. the ipfs cli only told me that I needed to run a migration, so I had to google how to do that. (after trying to find an `ipfs migrate` command that doesn't seem to exist.)
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<NfNitLoop> could use some better error messages there directing folks to the right tool.
<Kubuxu> hmm
<Kubuxu> if you started ipfs daemon it would do it for you
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<Yunho> hi
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<NfNitLoop> Kubuxu: Oh? It would've done the migration w/o having to download a separate tool? Yeah that was not obvious at all. -_-
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<Kubuxu> it would download it from `dist.ipfs.io` via IPFS
<Kubuxu> IIRC
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<NfNitLoop> Hmm, ipfs dns -r ipfs.nfnitloop.com tells me "not a valid domain name". I do have a TXT record there, though. but it's on ipfs.nfnitloop.com, not a _dnslink subdomain. Did that behavior change, or did I get it wrong long ago when I was playing with that? :p
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<Kubuxu> hmm it should work
<NfNitLoop> does it work for you?
<Kubuxu> try: ipfs name resolve -r ipfs.nfnitloop.com
<Kubuxu> ipfs dns IIRC resolves only domain names, and you have /ipns/PeerID here
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<NfNitLoop> yep. I tried -r and it says "not a valid domain name".
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<Kubuxu> ipfs name resolve instead of `ipfs dns`
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<NfNitLoop> Yeah, there I get a "could not resolve name" because that key fell out of the DHT looong ago. (I haven't re-learned how to publish it again. Or figured out what it used to point to. Still digging through my pinned objects trying to figure that out. :p)
<NfNitLoop> doh. ipfs repo stat gives: Error: strconv.ParseFloat: parsing "": invalid syntax
<NfNitLoop> Maybe my repo's not in a good state after all those upgrades?
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<Kubuxu> ghr
<NfNitLoop> ghr?
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<Kubuxu> ghr, please report issue to go-ipfs and reference what has happened.
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<NfNitLoop> yay /ipns/ipfs.nfnitloop.com/ works again. Riveting content. :p (Just reacquainting myself with how things work.)
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<NfNitLoop> it'd apparently been almost 2 years since I've played w/ this stuff.
<NfNitLoop> ipfs tells me I can't rename the "self" key. Why? The key is only used for publishing IPNS stuff, right?
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<NfNitLoop> I'd love to have it tell me that I must enter a --key when I sign things in case I want to have multiple keys.
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<whyrusleeping> short update on recent libp2p work: https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/issues/4029
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<NfNitLoop> Do things go poorly if you have two nodes that share a key?
<whyrusleeping> NfNitLoop: yeah, that won't end well
<whyrusleeping> the 'self' key isnt just used for publishing stuff
<whyrusleeping> its your nodes identity key in the network
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<NfNitLoop> OK, what if they've got different "self" keys, but share a "my-site" key?
<NfNitLoop> So I can publish updates from either my laptop or my server?
<whyrusleeping> thats fine, you can share keys other than 'self'
<whyrusleeping> thats an intended use case
<NfNitLoop> Why does my node need a keyed identity (vs. just a random ID) on the network?
<whyrusleeping> i'm not sure i understand the question
<NfNitLoop> I guess I'm really just asking -- what does "self" get used for other than publishing ipns entries?
<NfNitLoop> You say it's the ID, but you generally don't need pub/priv keypairs for an "ID" unless you're going to sign/verify things by that.
<whyrusleeping> its used to set up encrypted channels between you and other peers
<NfNitLoop> aaaah, cool. Didn't realize the transport was encrypted.
<whyrusleeping> yeap! by default
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<NfNitLoop> I suppose that's good enough reason. anything else?
<whyrusleeping> thats why ipfs addresses contain your peer ID
<whyrusleeping> or 'a' peer ID
<whyrusleeping> so when you connect to a peer, you can be certain that the connection isnt being MITMed
<whyrusleeping> (or if it is MITMed, they cant eavesdrop)
<whyrusleeping> the peer ID is the hash of the public key
<NfNitLoop> I thought IPFS addresses were just content hashes? /ipfs/$hash
<whyrusleeping> (or in the ed25519 case, its the full public key)
<whyrusleeping> ipfs refs (called CIDs) are
<whyrusleeping> but a multiaddr, like /ip4/1.2.3.4/tcp/4001/ipfs/QmFooBarBAz
<whyrusleeping> is describing a particular peer you want to talk to
<NfNitLoop> aah, yeah, haven't mucked around w/ any of that. the seed & autodiscovery stuff is working fine so far.
<NfNitLoop> is there a way from the CLI to get metadata about a piece of ipfs data? (ex: is address $x a file or a directory? How big is it?)
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<NfNitLoop> Oh hey I'm reading https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmNZiPk974vDsPmQii3YbrMKfi12KTSNM7XMiYyiea4VYZ/example#/ipfs/QmP8WUPq2braGQ8iZjJ6w9di6mzgoTWyRLayrMRjjDoyGr/data/readme.md which is by whyrusleeping. :p That last bit -- I don't understand why `ipfs cat` doesn't work there. what's the unixfs data format? Does it just include a file name? (I'd assume that would be in the parent DAG node's list.)
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<whyrusleeping> NfNitLoop: yeah, `ipfs cat` works on files, and crafting a completely raw block in that way means that `ipfs cat` doesnt know how to interpret it
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<whyrusleeping> it will try to read the file structure and fail
<whyrusleeping> though since writing that doc, we added a cid type for 'raw' blocks
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<whyrusleeping> so you can add a flag to the ipfs block put command and get something that *is* able to be catted
<NfNitLoop> what "file structure" is there other than "here's some bytes"?
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<whyrusleeping> NfNitLoop: theres some metadata that says this object is a file, or a directory, or a symlink, or a directory shard
<NfNitLoop> aaah, and writing just a block skips that stuff.
<NfNitLoop> but you use that for hashing blocks of larger files?
<whyrusleeping> and for files, the file object contains the file sizes of its subblocks
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<NfNitLoop> I notice that ipns/ stuff takes a long while to resolve. Do people tend to avoid it for that reason?
<NfNitLoop> What's the biggest/most-interesting content currently hosted in IPFS?
<alu> virtual worlds? :thinking:
<miflow[m]> well theres for example viewly or dtube,
<miflow[m]> orbit rocks too
<DuClare> Do people actually use it?
<DuClare> It looked like an abandoned tech-demo :)
<DuClare> I managed to connect with two or three people when I pasted the link on an IRC channel. Then it crashed browsers *grin*
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<miflow[m]> for me atleast :/
<NfNitLoop> https://orbit.chat/#/channel/ipfs seems kinda dead. :p
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<NfNitLoop> also, if I can't run it on my IPFS node, how distributed is it really?
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<DuClare> But why can't you?
<DuClare> Anyway, webrtc has its limitations
<DuClare> It needs a signal server at the very least
<NfNitLoop> well, maybe I can. https://github.com/orbitdb/orbit only has instructions for using the central orbit.chat though.
<NfNitLoop> hmm, found viewly and dtube sites, but neither really mention how to use them via my ipfs node.
<NfNitLoop> maybe they're just using them internally?
<miflow[m]> dtube is very young, it currently uses ipfs.io iirc
<NfNitLoop> uses it how?
<miflow[m]> someone said an browserextension will oveload the gateway url with your ipfs node, later
<miflow[m]> the content is pulled through the ipfs.io gateway, instead of your node, so u can use it without a node currently
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<whyrusleeping> DuClare: yeah... it would be really nice to have webudp type stuff
<DuClare> Yeah. And something more persistent than what webrtc does now. Like, let all the people with the know-how configure their routers to redirect the right port
<DuClare> Then clients could directly connect to each other and remember ports & ips
<DuClare> After an initial session with a seed node
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<ogd> kyledrake: random question, is the list of all neocities subdomains public?
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