<jakethepanda>
Can I ask Filecoin questions here or only IPFS?
<aboodman>
jakethepanda: #filecoin
<jakethepanda>
Thanks man
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<lgierth>
vyzo: hey i'll roll the release without relay for now -- it's only a -pre though, so not the rc yet. rc in a week hopefully
<lgierth>
we *need* to get something with /dnsaddr support and whyrusleeping doesn't have the capacity this weekend
<lgierth>
so i'm just gonna make sure the respective go-libp2p is in and roll it as is
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<jimtendo>
Hi guys, with Youtube's recent censorship policy, I was looking at creating a YouTube clone that leverages IPFS (and js-ipfs). The idea is that it should be as decentralized as possible to prevent censorship at a global level, but should be censorable at a site level. Was thinking that IPFS "search engines" could be used and that a shared IPFS folder could contain a "meta" like file with details about the user. The users videos would appear in this same
<jimtendo>
folder. So essentially, the sites would simply be providing a search interface and that's it (with the option to "blacklist" certain folders/users that contain illegal content. Does this sound feasible? Anyone interested in working with me on this?
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<jimtendo>
The other alternative I was thinking of, if the meta file approach is unfeasible, is to implement something akin to GNUSocial's OStatus protocol, whereby users sign up on separate domains but then "PubSubHubbub" each other when new content is added.
<jfmherokiller[m]>
jimtendo: i think first you might want to look into using rabin as the chunking algorithm so that videos that possibily contain the same data are deduplicated
<jimtendo>
jfmherokiller: Haven't even heard of that. At the moment, looking at whipping up a quick POC, but if it's feasible, would definitely like to look at something like that down the line.
<jimtendo>
At the moment, I figure some people (content creators) might be willing to help host their own content. If it's being viewed by several people at once - and this might be an assumption on my part - that JS IPFS will also distribute the load via the other people viewing that video. Any idea whether that's the case?
<jfmherokiller[m]>
well im mostly curious if the choice of video file container eg avi vs mp4 vs mkv would all contain the same data just with diffrent headers
<jimtendo>
jfmherokiller: Any idea what the de-facto video standard is at the moment? Best compression, etc?
<jfmherokiller[m]>
id say mp4 is probably the most standard for the web while mkv is usually used for dvd rips
<jfmherokiller[m]>
but if you want to process the video streams i suggest something like ffmpeg
<jimtendo>
I've got to head out for a bit... I'll be back later on. If anyone is interested in helping out (even just to guide me through the workings of IPFS and what's feasible/infeasible), please PM me. I'd like this all to be open-source so that others can host their own "nodes". Just unsure how I can make it so that the DB is decentralized (hence my thought on the "meta" file which can then be searched for through IPFS). Unsure on how this will work exactly as I'
<jimtendo>
m not completely familiar with IPFS beyond simple usage.
<lemmi>
jfmherokiller[m]: unlikely you will find anything in compressed video that is similar enough to dedupe it. don't you avi, mkv is solid, webm is a subset that works better for the web, h264 is still the codec with the most reach.
<lemmi>
jimtendo: also^
<lemmi>
to get most appledevices you'll probably need mp4 as container
<lemmi>
(but there's probably not a lot of people running ipfs on a ipad 1)
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<lgierth>
js-ipfs!
<lemmi>
i always forget that's actually a thing :D
<lgierth>
it's even better in a bit when we have the circuit relay merged in both go and js
<lemmi>
(it almost shouldn't be, browsers really need to implement that instead)
<lgierth>
like, next week
<lgierth>
yeah word, goal is to have a js-ipfs node in a webextension, and eventually properly integrate these into browsers
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<lemmi>
yeah, this really need to happen for ipfs to work for the average joa aswell
<lemmi>
the roadmap, while beeing pretty coarse, sounds very reasonable.
<lemmi>
this also the point when ipfs actually gets awesome. you happen to be with a like-minded group sharing a local net? well there you go.
<lemmi>
but you all know that already, why am i even talking about this :D
<lgierth>
<3
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<jimtendo>
Anyone have any input as to how I might go about storing an index of videos in a (mostly) decentralized fashion?
<jimtendo>
At the moment, thinking of having each node "scrape" IPFS and look for a meta file. That meta file could have a signed signature for a whitelisted node.
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<aboodman>
jimtendo: i read your post above
<aboodman>
this is a class of problem which afaik is currently difficult to solve in a decentralized fashion
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<aboodman>
the problem is how to create a data structure (the index) which is the union of lots of nodes' data, and keep it updated, and prevent malicious interference, and so-on
<aboodman>
i think for some cases (perhaps this one, if it is simple enough, and the index is small enough) it can be done on ethereum. though that is still fairly expensive.
<aboodman>
i'd be interested in seeing what you come up with or hearing if i'm missing some way to do this.
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<lgierth>
the nodes could maintain a CRDT structure together
<aboodman>
interesting idea. would that prevent malicious interference?
<lgierth>
i'm not sure it's possible with the current pubsub impl on its own, as you'd need nodes to sign their additions to the crdt
<lgierth>
and on the reading end you'd need to filter out any not-allowed additions
<aboodman>
right
<aboodman>
would readers have to revalidate the entire index?
<lgierth>
only if the list of allowed writers changes
<lgierth>
as long as it doesn't change you can cache the result
<aboodman>
lgierth: is something written anywhere about this approach
<lgierth>
i just came up with it
<lgierth>
as in, i just made it up
<lgierth>
or do you mean generally CRDTs and ipfs?
<lgierth>
that was the blog.ipfs.io dnslink set to a hash that wasn't actually completely pinned
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<TheGillies>
What are some interesting channels to pubsub to>
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<toddWannaCode>
Hey I am a coding noob who recently came across IPFS while researching cryptocurrencies. And I have a doubt. Will IPFS work on regular browsers that we have now or do they need to add support for IPFS specifically?
<A124>
toddWannaCode There is JS version of IPFS node, so it can be a regular browser. Given by addon or the page itself does include that. Some browsers are itnerested in integration also. Some already do. And of course you can just run a gateway and use addon to redirect.
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<toddWannaCode>
A124, ah okay. Do you guys have any sourcee recommendation that I should read to understand how the various projects like IPFS, libp2p, IPLD ties together?
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<TheGillies>
how do i get orbit to show uport qr code?
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<moshisushi>
whyrusleeping: are you interested in external contributions to js-ipfs? just picked that one because it looked like a good starting poing
<moshisushi>
point*
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<ilyaigpetrov>
lidel: how may I make this library better? What stops you from using it in your next extension?
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<Noxarivis[m]>
Why we don't have something like Zeronet?
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<r0kk3rz>
what do you mean Noxarivis[m] ?
<Noxarivis[m]>
I mean something like zeronet on IPFS
<pierce>
like the nice pretty browser? that would be nice
<r0kk3rz>
thats still not very descriptive...
<Noxarivis[m]>
r0kk3rz: well, do you know zeronet
<r0kk3rz>
yes
<Noxarivis[m]>
I mean they have a mobile client and social networks and messaging. .. and ipfs doesn't
<r0kk3rz>
now we're getting somewhere
<r0kk3rz>
we have messaging, you could possibly build social networks too
<r0kk3rz>
but ultimately, people need to build these things
<Noxarivis[m]>
Yeah, that's the problem
<Noxarivis[m]>
Noone does that
<Noxarivis[m]>
And if you mean Orbit with "messaging" I can't agree that much
<Noxarivis[m]>
I am worried that IPFS cant catch up
<Noxarivis[m]>
I have kind of "nothing"
<pierce>
I also think that IPFS has a bit too much focus on backend, and not enough frontend demo apps to show off the things that it can do. ZeroNet has gotten really nice in the past few years, but technologically there's nothing there that IPFS couldn't do as well.
<Noxarivis[m]>
That doesn't solve the problem
<Noxarivis[m]>
If there would be at least a cross platform messenger
<Noxarivis[m]>
Or a social network
<Noxarivis[m]>
Using ipfs feels lonely
<Noxarivis[m]>
I mean we even still rely on this crappy irc chat to be able to communicate
<r0kk3rz>
ipfs *is* backend though, realistically users should never even know its there
<pierce>
yeah, the target audience is like, sysadmins who want to make mirroring stuff easier. It's a very different crowd than people using ZeroNet
<ilyaigpetrov>
ipfs doesn't have decent messaging, only plans as I know
<Noxarivis[m]>
For me IPFS is still a Torrent alternative
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<r0kk3rz>
do zeronet have plans for a js implementation? thats a fairly big part of the ipfs roadmap
<Kythyria[m]>
Well, that is fundamentally what shape it is.
<Kythyria[m]>
> I mean we even still rely on this crappy irc chat to be able to communicate
<Kythyria[m]>
... you're using Matrix though
<pierce>
(yay matrix, yay encryption, yay authentication)
<Noxarivis[m]>
kythyria: yeah, in an irc room basically
<Kythyria[m]>
Well, more in a matrix room that happens to be mirrored to an IRC channel.
<Kythyria[m]>
There's no hairpin
<Noxarivis[m]>
kythyria: fine
<Noxarivis[m]>
Then we sill rely on IRC and Matrix to communicate
<Kythyria[m]>
I'd be surprised if IpfsChat was able to work as well as matrix.
<Kythyria[m]>
What with the whole "must tolerate there being no even slightly stable nodes" thing that comes with P2P nature.
<r0kk3rz>
yeah, but matrix is federated... which sucks
<Kythyria[m]>
It's actually conceivable that you could run a matrix client on your phone.
<Kythyria[m]>
A P2P system, no.
<Noxarivis[m]>
kythyria: ? What do you mean?
<Kythyria[m]>
A P2P based system has no nodes that are stable enough to hold on to messages across your nodes disconnecting, and requires every node to talk to a large number of other nodes in order to maintain the coherence of the network.
<Kythyria[m]>
And no, your phone is not stable enough even if you leave it on all the time.
<Noxarivis[m]>
Zeronet works tho
<r0kk3rz>
well, you can run it similar to a federated system if you wanted. with servers
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<Noxarivis[m]>
How do you explain that
<Kythyria[m]>
Unless, maybe, you have a phone with a hyperspace transmitter that can punch through about fifty metres of rock, metal, concrete, and people.
<Kythyria[m]>
(and matching receiver, obviously)
<pierce>
does zeronet do the messaging on the DHT?
<r0kk3rz>
proper p2p doesnt mean no servers, its just servers are clients
<Noxarivis[m]>
pierce: no, zeronet sadly still rely on torrent trackers
<Kythyria[m]>
I'm not surprised.
<pierce>
with all this ethereum integration, using whisper messages over the ethereum network seems like the idea way to do messaging, then you can build the client in web3.js and you get all that for free.
<jfmherokiller[m]>
i dont think zeronet even tries to merge the swarms
<Kythyria[m]>
I suspect zeronet works by having a large number of users whose machines are stable, and highly redundant storing of messages on third-party nodes.
<Noxarivis[m]>
Zeronet has up to 40.000 users daily
<Kythyria[m]>
pierce: How long does that retain messages for if the recipient is offline?
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<pierce>
kythyria: with whisper you can set messages to be ephemeral, or pay a small fee to have it persist for a certain amount of time
<Kythyria[m]>
Ah.
<Kythyria[m]>
So it's expensive.
<Noxarivis[m]>
Messaging on Zeronet works with storing all messages
<Kythyria[m]>
(also, a server/client system will always be able to be more efficient than a P2P one, assuming comparable competence of implementation)
<Noxarivis[m]>
Like an own blockchain
<Kythyria[m]>
(at least for the clients)
<pierce>
it uses the same network as ethereum, messages are stored in the mempools, but never get rolled into the blockchain
<r0kk3rz>
Kythyria[m]: routing is coming soon, so i expect you will be able to put ipfs into a client mode
<r0kk3rz>
where you choose a bootstrap node as your gateway
<lidel>
ilyaigpetrov, I think you may want to invest some time to polish README.md -- I know it sounds like a dry feedback, but good README builds trust and people are more likely to try using your library. Right now you have some nice technical examples, but it lacks a paragraph or two at the beginning stating what your library does. You may want to take some inspiration from