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<hipboi> there is no bootloader available for rockchips, right?
<hipboi> for now
<FergusL> well, there has to be one in the devices, right ? it's just not made available to public
<hipboi> ok, the guy from rockchips said, the bootloader will not be open
<FergusL> I think the bootloader is what causes problems most of the time to install or even boot other OSs
<FergusL> but it's been working on Rk3066...
<FergusL> but don't take my words for granted, I'm not sure
<hramrach__> hipboi: I tried to ask here and this is what I found out
<hramrach__> basically you have a bootloader in rom and nand which are fixed and you can replace the kernel
<hramrach__> iirc somebody said that u-boot support is planned but getting working kernel is higher priority
<hramrach__> also the boot sequenc for rk is rather dumb
<hipboi> :)
<hipboi> can 3066/3188 boot from external sd card?
<hramrach__> it can if you erase the flash
<hramrach__> erase enough of it to make it unbootable
<hramrach__> and only 3188
<hramrach__> 3066 cannot
<hramrach__> see the main page of linux-rockchip
<hramrach__> you can dual-boot with the recovery button. there is also a guide that advises to short pins on the flash to make it possible to write to it
<hramrach__> so you probably can install flash-disable switch ;-)
<hipboi> hramrach__, thanks :)
<hramrach__> np :)
<FergusL> that's exciting to hear !
<hipboi> hramrach__, you contribute a lot to the wiki :)
<hramrach__> ;-)
<FergusL> it's unclear to me how close one is from booting linux when replacing kernels
<hramrach__> you can install picuntu which is full distro
<hramrach__> but for experimenting you want to replace on thing at a time
<FergusL> hramrach__: you mean, if I get a new rk device, I should first try to change the kernel for example ?
<FergusL> instead of directly going to picuntu
<hramrach__> if picuntu works for you go for it
<hramrach__> but it does not support 3188 so far afaik
<FergusL> yes
<FergusL> cnxsoft reported boot on 3188 though
<FergusL> on the Tronsmart T428 iirc
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<FergusL> can someone recommend european ebay sellers for rk3188 sticks ?
<hipboi> FergusL, try aliexpress
<FergusL> aren't all aliexpress sellers based in China ?
<hipboi> FergusL, yes, China based
<FergusL> I'm looking for european sellers ! there are some on ebay
<FergusL> though I know I'd better purchase from China and wait
<hramrach__> FergusL: Europe is a lost cause
<FergusL> haha
<hramrach__> you will get rk3188 in like half a year in EU shops
<hramrach__> and like 2 models
<FergusL> but those might be fake products or fake seller location
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<FergusL> yes ?
<FergusL> significantly more expensive
<hramrach__> ofc
<hramrach__> tax
<hramrach__> good service
<FergusL> okay then that's a recommendation from you ?
<hramrach__> it's a tradeoff
<hramrach__> I buy on ebay what I cannot get elsewhere
<FergusL> geekbuying or seem to be good places too
<hramrach__> the price on e-bay varies too
<hramrach__> and most have similar to amazon
<FergusL> yes
<hramrach__> it might be somebody selling one second hand or fakes. from what I heard the latter is somewhat of a problem on e-bay lately
<FergusL> for android mini-pc ?
<hramrach__> yes, for electronics. But that was like half a year ago. I don't follow the latest e-bay fads
<hramrach__> but as a rule of thumb if the price is unbelievable don't believe it :p
<FergusL> it's funny Rk has been making dual cores again, like 3168
<FergusL> I really don't know where to get a mini stick :|
<hramrach__> it's always a difficult decision :p
<FergusL> yes !
<FergusL> ever tried geekbuying ?
<FergusL> they even seem to be supporting a bit the community
<hramrach__> no, never
<FergusL> ok
<FergusL> but sometimes I just think cubieboard or beaglebone might be just the perfect choice actually
<FergusL> because it basically just works :D
<hramrach__> depends on the features you want
<hramrach__> cubieboard has poor audio options. only analog and hdmi
<hramrach__> or USB, meh
<FergusL> depending on which card you pick, it might be much better than integrated one
<hramrach__> and possibly very bulky, too
<FergusL> yes :-/
<FergusL> i'd like to create some sort of very versatile sampler/synthesizer linux-based box for live music
<FergusL> it could be only done inside PureData which I know works fine on ARM
<FergusL> next up could be adding JACK, but that might turn out to be much trickier
<hramrach__> jack probably works
<FergusL> hum
<hramrach__> you want the visuals also or only sound?
<FergusL> I've seen people having issues with the internal sound and jack, but with usb soundcard it works better
<FergusL> only sound
<FergusL> basically a box at your feet, on which you plug usb instruments and microphone and with an output
<FergusL> and can control it from a phone, a tablet or another computer
<hramrach__> if you don't rely on the internal soundcard and do everything with USB it should work
<FergusL> nice to know
<hramrach__> the SPDIF on rk would be nice for output but god knows what it actually suports
<FergusL> I could even forsee a usb baseboard
<FergusL> yes...
<hramrach__> to make an internal soundcard noise-free requires good HW and SW engineering
<hramrach__> which is unlikely to happen on random Chinese board
<FergusL> sure; yes
<hramrach__> the USB drivers are common for all architectures so what works on a netbook should work on arm board, basically
<FergusL> that's what I thought yes
<hramrach__> the A10 has about half or so the performance of a cheap netbook processor
<hramrach__> you might be limited in the number of devices you can connect
<FergusL> I could go woth A10/A20 or imx6 dual/quads, but the extra cpu power from RKs is tempting
<FergusL> maybe it's just useless
<hramrach__> the rk brief says something about 16 USB endpoints
<FergusL> interesting, that is, with hub connected I guess ?
<FergusL> I dind't know the limitation could be so low, although 16 USB instruments is a LOT
<FergusL> because I do make the instruments myself, too :)
<hramrach__> and sound card and mouse
<FergusL> true
<FergusL> (well in my design, it's a completely headless box, no mouse, no kb, no screen, no nothing
<FergusL> but maybe my design idea has a lot of flaws
<hramrach__> Provides 16 host mode channels
<hramrach__> whatever that means
<FergusL> might be it, yes, haha
<hramrach__> the OTG port has 9 more
<hramrach__> hmm, the A10 datasheet says that OTG has 5 endpoints and hsot is OHCI/EHCI
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<JochenKauz> One question... why is a section on abot the repos uninteresting?
<hramrach__> because it has no info
<JochenKauz> it has much info
<JochenKauz> it has the info for finding sources
<hramrach__> it was a shopping list. no info
<JochenKauz> something xda wants to be published
<JochenKauz> what?
<JochenKauz> shopping list?
<hramrach__> like what is in hte repos, which is current on what - no info
<JochenKauz> sorry... thats something I can not agree to
<JochenKauz> if you want to build something that is the basic of everything on RK, you need this
<JochenKauz> if you don't have that info, nothing is made
<JochenKauz> you can try to make a linux, without kernel.. no way
<JochenKauz> so, sorry. thats nothing what is unimportant to know
<hramrach__> there is the list of repos on hte software page
<JochenKauz> you want to build an odys kernel... here you go... you want to build an upuntu touch... here you go
<hramrach__> but for it to be really useful you need to know which repo to use for what
<hramrach__> and that info is missong
<hramrach__> where you go?
<hramrach__> there is no link neither for odys nor ubuntu touch
<JochenKauz> you think that you are the one who should decide what is usefull or not?
<JochenKauz> ok... your turn.. no problem
<JochenKauz> we could work together... but not that way
<FergusL> hey...
<hramrach__> feel free to put the list of repos back on the main page. it's not that long yet
<FergusL> something like the omegamoon github repo directly on the main page ?
<hramrach__> but if this project is to grow you will get like dozens of repos with temp forks
<JochenKauz> I would only like to be informed.. if we make another structure... its okay.. but we should talk about it
<hramrach__> If I wanted to build a kernel which repo do I pick?
<JochenKauz> the omegamoon blog entry made us oin the top of google search now
<hramrach__> heh
<JochenKauz> It's easy
<JochenKauz> you have a tablet
<JochenKauz> if you want to build a kernel... look at the repos
<JochenKauz> there you find the description what kernel are possible
<JochenKauz> we have 12 or 15 kernels to build, perhaps more... the other ones are for 6 kernels, or perhaps more
<hramrach__> like there is no repo that you would recommend?
<hramrach__> or need special kernel for each device?
<JochenKauz> no.. you need to pick the one that match your tablet
<JochenKauz> you need special kernel for every device
<hramrach__> that's rather lame and unusual for LInux
<JochenKauz> hardware is so much different, you can not try to
<JochenKauz> yes, but thats RK
<JochenKauz> its a design, and every distrivutor can order what he whants
<hramrach__> can't the hardware be detected?
<JochenKauz> I've made from my sources round about 8 different tablets
<JochenKauz> no
<JochenKauz> its an old kernel
<JochenKauz> some things can be loaded
<hramrach__> you can build them into kernel and just not use
<JochenKauz> but LCD, RAM size, Touch... did not work
<JochenKauz> as an example
<hramrach__> it's not like the device has 4M ram
<JochenKauz> something I'm working at these days
<JochenKauz> you have an toch GT801
<JochenKauz> touch
<hramrach__> ok
<JochenKauz> it has hardware dependig fw that is loaded into the controller at boot time
<JochenKauz> this is dependig on Screen resolution, or the driver you have
<JochenKauz> this fw is compiled into the kernel
<hramrach__> so you cannot change screen resolution?
<hramrach__> you have to pre-load some firmware that sets it?
<JochenKauz> and to make it really simple... in the touch you can define an offset... that must match the driver
<JochenKauz> yes
<JochenKauz> I'll realy hate this
<JochenKauz> I've been working on one kernel now for 4 weeks
<JochenKauz> only the touch is the problem, but no sources are available
<JochenKauz> I've made a disassamble to get the right FW, but how to find the drivewr for this FW
<JochenKauz> now, with the help of my crew, we find a driver that could match, but we have to patch the FW
<JochenKauz> hopefully thats it
<JochenKauz> it is an really another world like normal Linux
<JochenKauz> if you want look at our repos, look at arch/arm/amch-rk29/board*
<hramrach__> the AW kernel works on every device that has the same platform
<JochenKauz> arch/arm/mach-rk29/board*.c
<JochenKauz> there you find so many differences in the inits... its horrible
<hramrach__> like difference in pin assignemnt or completely different code?
<JochenKauz> its all different... pin's... different screen resolutions, differnt battery... mostly different structs
<JochenKauz> on one board the sensor is on i2c1, then on i2c2
<hramrach__> so just config differences
<JochenKauz> the you must reservate the ram for the gpu, according the screen resulution
<hramrach__> or jsut reserve a lot
<JochenKauz> do you have 2 cams, or one, or nothing
<hramrach__> plus there is kernel arguments
<JochenKauz> yes, but all rk2918 do have the same
<JochenKauz> we got it to work with 6.2
<JochenKauz> not more
<JochenKauz> for rk3x... notzhing more than 4.4
<hramrach__> 6.2 and 4.4 what?
<JochenKauz> gcc
<JochenKauz> 4.
<hramrach__> yeah, gcc versions :/
<JochenKauz> so thats the point... our repos are the key to get an running version of the kernel... without that.. no Android could be run on an RK based device
<JochenKauz> its an hard job to find something.. but RK does not publish anything
<hramrach__> but without the info about picking the repo and gcc you still do not get a kernel built
<hramrach__> the README in hte repo is still the generic Linus readme
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<JochenKauz> All Infos are in the makefile
<JochenKauz> there you find the toolchain to be used
<JochenKauz> if someone want,, the info is there
<JochenKauz> we talk about kernel building, not compile an easy hello world
<AutoStatic> Hello
<JochenKauz> we surely have to gave more infos about compiling kernels, but at this point now, all we publish is for experts or enthusiasts
<JochenKauz> HI
<AutoStatic> Hi JochenKauz
<AutoStatic> FergusL: I'm working on a similar idea. Not a synth but a guitar stompbox.
<FergusL> ha great !
<FergusL> Rk powered ?
<AutoStatic> Yup, rk3066 based
<FergusL> nice !
<AutoStatic> ot a MK808 and some UG802 clone
<JochenKauz> cool
<AutoStatic> RT kernel runs on it
<FergusL> my idea could certainly have some stomp buttons and pots
<FergusL> ohhhh
<FergusL> that's great news
<AutoStatic> So I can achieve real low latencies
<AutoStatic> Well, it's not very stable
<AutoStatic> :(
<JochenKauz> what kernel you use?
<AutoStatic> But when it runs, it runs ok
<AutoStatic> jeremy@rk3066:~$ uname -a
<AutoStatic> Linux rk3066 3.0.36-rt58 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Thu Jul 4 13:18:23 CEST
<FergusL> what softwares are you using ?
<AutoStatic> JACK + Guitarix
<JochenKauz> is the sourse available?
<JochenKauz> source
<AutoStatic> Not yet, I made quite a mess out of it
<AutoStatic> The RT patchet didn't apply cleanly so I had to do quite some by hand
<AutoStatic> But I'll upload it one of these days
<FergusL> yes pleade !
<JochenKauz> but you've got a 36er kernel source?
<FergusL> do you use a screen with it ?
<JochenKauz> based on BQ?
<AutoStatic> Yes, 3.0.36
<AutoStatic> Form the Galland github
<JochenKauz> ok
<AutoStatic> Yes, with a monitor, but I'd like to use it headless
<AutoStatic> But WiFi is a PITA on the MK808
<JochenKauz> my colleague is working on 3.10 mainline at this time
<AutoStatic> Oh great!
<JochenKauz> yes
<hramrach__> 3.10 has DT
<AutoStatic> DT?
<hramrach__> so hopefully at least something becomes configurable then
<JochenKauz> they are commiting changes for RK to Linus at this time
<FergusL> AutoStatic: same here the goal is to have it headless
<AutoStatic> I read about that yes
<FergusL> first one would have to ssh on it
<AutoStatic> FergusL: yeah but then the problem is, how do you connect to the device?
<FergusL> but then maybe a webapp by a server ran by the device itself
<AutoStatic> Yes, with guitarix that's possible
<FergusL> well with wifi, but I know it's a hard part on those cheap things...
<AutoStatic> You can run one instance in a headless way and another with a GUI on a different machine and with some Avahi trickery they can communicate
<FergusL> first, a warning : I don't own any of these, I only have googled about it for long nights but never bought one
<FergusL> I was thinking about a js webapp and the server modifies all with OSC or midi signals
<AutoStatic> You mean a RK based device?
<FergusL> (or puredata, in my case)
<FergusL> yes
<AutoStatic> Ah ok
<AutoStatic> Well, you have to pick the right model
<FergusL> so forgive me if I miss crucial points :)
<AutoStatic> No problem :)
<FergusL> absolutely, that's what we were talking about with hramrach__ earlier
<AutoStatic> The MK808 has a Wifi adapter that connects via SDIO
<AutoStatic> So basically via the SD card controller
<FergusL> now that the Rk3188 starts to be linuxified, I'm tempter...
<FergusL> hu ?!
<FergusL> okay, didn't know that
<JochenKauz> it should be possible to connect a midi connector.. or not?
<AutoStatic> Yes, no problem
<FergusL> you still need the usb adapter !
<AutoStatic> Or directly on the board you mean?
<JochenKauz> only one hint... we've got ubuntu touch running on Rk2918
<FergusL> JochenKauz: tablets, that is ?
<JochenKauz> on our supported tablets
<JochenKauz> Odys RK2918
<FergusL> what is "our" ?
<JochenKauz> and if someone has another tablet, I could try to make a kernel
<FergusL> I'm a bit afraid by the Rk based tablets
<JochenKauz> we support the following tablets
<FergusL> AutoStatic: how did you know I have this project ? you were'nt there !
<FergusL> oh, got it :)
<AutoStatic> This channel is being logged
<FergusL> okay, then maybe you saw that I'm also making the instruments
<AutoStatic> Yes, what kind of instruments is that about?
<JochenKauz> Odys... Loox, Xpress, Next, NEO X8, NEO X7, BQ-Kepler2, BQ-Pascal2, Arnova AN8CG3, M820c3G, Hyundai H900
<JochenKauz> and brandnew Meying M11HD
<FergusL> JochenKauz: didn't heazr much about the rk2918, is it single core 1Ghz ?
<JochenKauz> we made it 1.1GHz
<FergusL> AutoStatic: mainly percussions because it's what I play, I'm maling pressure sensors with carbon-loaded paper
<JochenKauz> but yes single core A8
<AutoStatic> Oh cool!!
<AutoStatic> ANd you probably connect them via USB?
<hramrach__> anybody hs the power to change topic?
<FergusL> but I'm slowly progressing
<FergusL> AutoStatic: depends, right now it's Arduino so yes, but it could be directly serial
<AutoStatic> That's possible but then you need a RK board that has serial connectors
<FergusL> I realy like the idea of a small wooden or metal box with inside, a stick pc + small usb sound card for good inputs + usb hub + microcontroller with some pots and buttons
<FergusL> yes, I think most have these
<FergusL> one just needs to find the right pads !
<AutoStatic> Sound good!
<FergusL> great to find someone with the same ideas
<JochenKauz> we are also working on rk30 and rk31 kernels.. so to get an 3.0.36er kernel that work on mk808... nice try... cause the 3.10... is next the door
<JochenKauz> and it could help us to get mainline to work
<FergusL> what is "we" ? do you own a society ? or is it the community in general ?
<JochenKauz> so if anyone want to help us,,, all help is appreciated
<AutoStatic> FergusL: I'm going to build it inside a Hammond/Eddystone enclosure with an USB soundcard. But then I need to get the PC stick stable first
<JochenKauz> we are Crew RKTablet
<FergusL> oh okay JochenKauz
<hramrach__> JochenKauz: do you have a web other than the github one?
<JochenKauz> we are 4 Kernel Builders and 2 Android Roms maker
<JochenKauz> yes
<FergusL> AutoStatic: software-wise you mean ?
<AutoStatic> And kernel-wise
<AutoStatic> Well, software is not relly the issue
<JochenKauz> we have a forum and a blog
<FergusL> AutoStatic: I see
<hramrach__> oh, the one on arctablet
<JochenKauz> if you want to meet us.. we are on arctablet..
<FergusL> I'm a linux user, I'm not that new but I must confess that tweaking and compiling kernels is something I've never done !
<hramrach__> ominous looking andriod there :)
<AutoStatic> FergusL: for the RK based devices it's quite simple.
<JochenKauz> and we are present on xda
<hramrach__> german?
<JochenKauz> and it would be a pleasure for us to meet you there
<JochenKauz> international
<JochenKauz> its basically german... but in english.. no problem
<FergusL> I visited this website for the first time today, but didn't understand much on the first page !
<FergusL> AutoStatic: what music genres are you mostly playing ?
<JochenKauz> only ask..
<JochenKauz> We could answer, if we are able to
<JochenKauz> @FergusL... what was the problem?
<JochenKauz> what did you not understand?
<FergusL> JochenKauz: oh it's simply me not knowing much ! got confused by the product names and acronyms
<AutoStatic> FergusL: Indierock
<FergusL> I see
<FergusL> JochenKauz: has anybody tested flashing linux on the rk3188s ?
<FergusL> tablets, that is
<JochenKauz> FergusL: ahh okay.. not easy its very hardware depended
<FergusL> yes ! I just got that now, now I understand better :)
<JochenKauz> no, not yet.. only rk3066
<AutoStatic> hramrach__: gcc 4.6.2 also works for rk30xx sources
<JochenKauz> no
<JochenKauz> kernel does not work with 4.6.2
<FergusL> (AutoStatic where are you from ?)
<hramrach__> it probably depends on the kernel
<AutoStatic> gcc version 4.6.3 (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.6.3-1ubuntu5)
<JochenKauz> we have not founf a toolchain that boots
<AutoStatic> That's what I use to compile
<hramrach__> maybe it does with 3.0.36
<JochenKauz> no
<AutoStatic> Yes it's about 3.0.36
<JochenKauz> we got it only to work with 4.4
<hramrach__> you use old sources
<JochenKauz> there is a bug in 4.6.x that prevents it from booting
<hramrach__> linaro has heavily patchd compilers, too
<AutoStatic> Which kernel sources are you referring to?
<JochenKauz> we have really new toolchains... but optimized for A9 they do not work
<JochenKauz> you can find all sources on our git
<hramrach__> oh, there is 3.0.36 too
<JochenKauz> basically the bq curie
<JochenKauz> yes
<JochenKauz> and the only toolchain that work is 4.4
<JochenKauz> we tried different others
<JochenKauz> but no way
<JochenKauz> we have an linaro 4.6.. don't work
<AutoStatic> Well, the source I hae compile and run fine with 4.6.3
<AutoStatic> But they're old as hramrach__ pointed out
<hramrach__> no, that's probaly about the same
<JochenKauz> we always compile our own toolchain, but also others don<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<#t come up
<hramrach__> saw 3.0.8 in the repo but that's for rk29
<JochenKauz> we go 3.0.8 up to rk3066
<JochenKauz> we've just released 4.2.2 on rk2919 with 3.0.8
<JochenKauz> only some minor problems
<JochenKauz> does not work
<FergusL> where should I start to understand more all this ? apart from getting one of thos goddamn sticks haha
<AutoStatic> FergusL: you're Linux savvy right?
<FergusL> yes, kinda
<FergusL> kind of programming savvy too
<AutoStatic> Ah ok, wish I was :)
<AutoStatic> You're opting for a rk3188 based stick, so a quad core one?
<FergusL> still not sure, even more given how few people have started looking at it
<AutoStatic> And what is it that you'd like to understand? How to build a kernel for it? How to get Linux on it?
<AutoStatic> For now I'd go for a rk3066 based stick, they're cheaper but powerful enough for your goal I think
<FergusL> hm... I think my comment was regarding how I feel when I look the kernel repos, I'm a bit lost, how to know what device it's for ? what arch ?
<AutoStatic> AH ok
<FergusL> yes, maybe after all, my only reason is to get more power
<AutoStatic> Arch is ARM
<FergusL> yes, I meant, where in the repo or the source tree can I find something like arch = armv7 something
<FergusL> but initially that was a simple comment, I think I'll slowly figure out things if I decide to jump in and start trying
<AutoStatic> You can't
<AutoStatic> the repositories contain the complete kernel source, for all architectures
<FergusL> Oh, okay
<FergusL> then it must be in the... hm... "kconfig" or something that one sets this
<FergusL> I'd like to get this one, Omegamoon wrote that people were starting to work on the S400
<AutoStatic> So as soon as you run something like 'ARCH=arm make menuconfig' and save your config file it's an ARM config
<AutoStatic> Yeah, read about the S400
<FergusL> (but as usual, it's ebay, is it fake ? etc...)
<AutoStatic> I'm getting my hands on a rk3188 based device soon too
<FergusL> cool
<AutoStatic> et it via geekbuying or
<hramrach__> you need a repo that has config for your board :S
<FergusL> haaa nice, I asked early about comments on these stores
<FergusL> earlier* though I think dx doesn't have the 3188 yet
<AutoStatic> They have
<FergusL> sorry, they have indeed
<hramrach__> but only sticks, no boxes
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<FergusL> yes
<FergusL> was it with you that we talked about the boxes ?
<AutoStatic> dx has no boxes, geekbuying has
<FergusL> interesting*
<AutoStatic> Definitely
<AutoStatic> It has ethernet
<FergusL> yes, and I always thought boxes fits "our" design idea better
<AutoStatic> It also has two USB ports (and OTG)
<FergusL> but I suspect a constant portion of the available Rk (and others) product with such low prices are uber-cheap
<AutoStatic> Yes, but's that to be expected. It's a bit hit and miss
<AutoStatic> The latter has twice as big NAND
<FergusL> yep, noted that
<AutoStatic> hramrach__: What do you mean with "Linux on Rockchip devices has no configuration mechanism." (
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