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<
yonkeltron >
]/quit
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<
yosito >
Is Ruby part of the C family of programming languages?
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<
centrx >
yosito, What do you mean by C family of programming languages?
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<
centrx >
yosito, The Ruby language is not based on C
02:17
<
yosito >
Ok, I didn't think so. Thanks. :)
02:17
<
centrx >
yosito, Ruby is more based on Smalltalk and Perl
02:18
<
centrx >
yosito, The reference interpreter for Ruby is written in C, but the language is not based on C.
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<
yorickpeterse >
morning
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11:25
<
apeiros >
(also asked in #ruby) lazyirc: which option parser to use for commands with subcommands (like `git subcommand --option`)?
11:25
* apeiros
tries to remember by which nick lee jarvis goes in irc…
11:25
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11:26
<
workmad3 >
apeiros: you don't fancy using Thor ?
11:27
<
apeiros >
hm, I crossed thor off my list a long time ago. but I forgot why, and things might have changed.
11:27
<
workmad3 >
apeiros: and I suspect it's ljarvis ;)
11:27
<
apeiros >
damn right you are!
11:27
<
apeiros >
ljarvis: slop & subcommands a thing?
11:28
<
apeiros >
obviously monday. brain keeps responding with Errno::Timeout and Errno::NoJuice
11:28
<
jhass >
mmmh. Errno::NoJuice. We should make a kernel patch
11:28
<
apeiros >
oh, Errno::ETIMEOUT and Errno::ENOJUICE
11:29
<
workmad3 >
apeiros: I was being generous and assumed you'd set up some aliases (a.k.a. it's monday and I didn't notice either)
11:30
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11:30
<
apeiros >
workmad3: nah, I created Kernel level methods: no_juice_error and timeout. because: fuck namespacing.
11:30
<
apeiros >
also, monday. fuck everything.
11:30
* apeiros
is in a good mood
11:32
<
workmad3 >
I can tell
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<
apeiros >
workmad3: ok, I start to remember why I don't see Thor as viable
11:36
<
apeiros >
so much code, very verbose, wow, not good
11:36
<
apeiros >
much code, very boilerplate, wow
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11:38
<
apeiros >
curious now whether I should reinvent another wheel (hello yak! I've got a razor!) leveraging 2.1 only options (since this is a 2.1 project)
11:39
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<
apeiros >
(I already have reinvented much of that wheel ~8y ago for butler)
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12:38
<
whitequark >
apeiros: slop is pretty great
12:38
<
apeiros >
whitequark: with subcommands too?
12:39
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12:39
<
apeiros >
k, will have to study the docs then. the readme examples don't show that.
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12:43
<
jtoy >
how do I add a [] method to a class?
12:43
<
jtoy >
this doesnt seem to work:
12:43
<
jtoy >
def self.[k]
12:43
<
apeiros >
def self.[](k)
12:43
<
apeiros >
the name is [], and then comes the arglist
12:44
<
apeiros >
same as for [] as instance method
12:49
<
apeiros >
hah, wanted to do this for like forever - custom yaml types :D
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13:38
<
apeiros >
being able to define a directory+files skeleton in yaml is quite nice
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14:16
<
ddfreyne >
apeiros: Do you specify content as well?
14:16
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14:17
<
ddfreyne >
apeiros: I've never considered doing it that way. Interesting.
14:17
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14:17
<
apeiros >
ddfreyne: in my case, yes. I have 3 sections in the yaml, all optional
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14:17
<
apeiros >
variables, structure, content
14:18
<
apeiros >
you can have structure+content combined (currently called "files"), but I haven't yet decided on the appropriate keyname
14:18
<
apeiros >
variables can contain interactive questions (that's what I needed custom yaml types)
14:18
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14:20
<
ddfreyne >
apeiros: Do you have an example?
14:20
<
apeiros >
ask me on the week-end :-p
14:21
<
apeiros >
(yes, I do, but not willing to show yet)
14:21
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14:21
<
apeiros >
I'll also intend to release the updated directory_template gem then, which can handle that format.
14:23
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14:26
<
yorickpeterse >
man my code is totally webscale
14:27
<
yorickpeterse >
what nokogiri parses in 300 ms takes 14 seconds in Rubby
14:27
<
apeiros >
you pipe to /dev/null?
14:27
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14:27
<
apeiros >
that kind of webscale
14:27
<
yorickpeterse >
yeah
14:27
<
benlovell >
roflscale
14:27
<
yorickpeterse >
but at least memory is stable as intended
14:27
<
yorickpeterse >
I even have a graph to prove it!
14:28
<
apeiros >
well, that's only 5-6 orders of magnitude
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14:31
<
yorickpeterse >
webscale
14:31
<
yorickpeterse >
TO HACKERNEWS
14:31
<
yorickpeterse >
that's with a streaming parser btw
14:32
<
yorickpeterse >
and only 11MB of XML input
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14:34
<
yorickpeterse >
also :<3: Gnuplot
14:34
<
yorickpeterse >
:heart:
14:34
<
yorickpeterse >
DAMN IT
14:34
<
yorickpeterse >
Oh shit, I didn't load that plugin
14:34
<
yorickpeterse >
hmpf
14:35
<
yorickpeterse >
THERE
14:36
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14:37
<
apeiros >
srsly, 60 LoC for encrypt/decrypt?
14:37
<
yorickpeterse >
what the fuck
14:37
<
yorickpeterse >
where's tarcieri when you need him
14:37
<
yorickpeterse >
aka the Ruby crypto batman
14:37
<
apeiros >
yeah, I guess I'll ping him
14:37
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14:37
<
apeiros >
also not sure whether CBC wasn't the one considered broken
14:38
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14:38
<
apeiros >
(that'd be the other reason people fail at encrypting sh*t - no consumable source for what's considered broken nowadays)
14:38
<
yorickpeterse >
gnufied: meh
14:38
<
whitequark >
ECB is trivially broken
14:38
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14:38
<
whitequark >
but CBC without authentication is harmful too
14:39
<
gnufied >
yorickpeterse: it uses CBC
14:39
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14:39
<
gnufied >
having said that, by default it stores key and encrypted data side by side.
14:39
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14:39
<
apeiros >
gnufied: I converted that into Encryption.encrypt data: data, password: password
14:40
<
apeiros >
and .decrypt with same args
14:40
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14:40
<
apeiros >
as far as I've read on the web, storing the IV along with the data is fine. curious to hear a knowledgable persons thought on that.
14:41
<
whitequark >
IV (nonce) is public
14:41
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14:41
<
whitequark >
it exists because most ciphers are not secure if you can force the sender to encrypt a known plaintext
14:42
<
apeiros >
yeah, understood it that way too. ensure same message encodes differently every time.
14:42
<
apeiros >
i.e., have it random
14:43
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14:43
<
whitequark >
you can use sequential IVs too, if the size of IV is too small (e.g. 4 bytes)
14:43
<
whitequark >
I think random IVs + birthday paradox is how WEP got so ridiculously easy to break
14:43
<
apeiros >
I use AES-256-CBC
14:43
<
apeiros >
with 16 byte IV
14:43
<
whitequark >
it's really not hard to get a collision with random 4-byte IVs
14:43
<
apeiros >
using openssl's random_iv method for it
14:44
<
whitequark >
(or just generate 4b of packets for that matter)
14:44
<
whitequark >
that sounds fine
14:44
<
whitequark >
I personally would use RbNaCl though
14:44
<
apeiros >
ah, heard about that one. it's from tarcieri?
14:44
<
apeiros >
seems like
14:45
<
whitequark >
it's a wrapper for djb's state of the art crypto library
14:45
<
apeiros >
as in: no openssl involved
14:46
<
yorickpeterse >
gnufied: I know, we use Strongbox
14:46
<
apeiros >
"Does it have a lock with a checkmark? -> Sure, here you go" rofl
14:46
<
whitequark >
that, and djb is well-known for creating both good ciphers and writing good code
14:46
<
apeiros >
so djb writes libsodium?
14:46
<
whitequark >
no, djb writes nacl
14:47
<
whitequark >
unfortunately he's not really good at packaging and distributing code
14:47
<
whitequark >
nacl isn't even a library, it's a collection of arch-dependent C files
14:47
<
apeiros >
so IYHO, nacl > openssl?
14:47
* apeiros
also curious how libressl vs openssl will develop
14:48
<
whitequark >
apeiros: absolutely, if you don't need TLS compat
14:48
<
apeiros >
for this, I don't
14:48
<
apeiros >
it's for the insane people who want to store secrets in git
14:48
<
apeiros >
so they can at least encrypt all of it with a single master key
14:48
<
whitequark >
the foundation (nacl & libsodium) is very solid. there may be issues with binding but I bet there's 10x as much with the openssl binding.
14:48
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14:48
<
workmad3 >
apeiros: did you look at git-crypt for that?
14:49
<
apeiros >
slightly less insane than storing plaintext secrets in (potentially public) repos
14:49
<
apeiros >
workmad3: no. doesn't seem to be part of std git?
14:49
<
workmad3 >
apeiros: no, it's a separate thing that does exactly what you just said :)
14:50
<
workmad3 >
works pretty transparently by setting up a git filter for encrypting/decrypting files as they're modified in the working directory
14:50
<
gnufied >
BTW, I am working on a memory profiler for MRI. it uses "postponed job" api for freeobj hooks, to keep track of heap as objects are created and destoyed. my plan though is to build a super simple and powerful profiler like yourkit.
14:50
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14:50
<
apeiros >
doesn't seem to be a fit (right idea, though, would be nice if git added that to its core)
14:51
<
gnufied >
so the profiler data itself will be available via a socket connection and a frontend can consume that
14:51
<
apeiros >
workmad3: problem is, I don't want non-ruby dependencies
14:51
<
apeiros >
workmad3: or at least minimize them (I already have a couple)
14:51
<
workmad3 >
ah, ok :)
14:52
<
gnufied >
so far my architecture looks like:
14:52
<
gnufied >
main_app -> C extension -> zeromq server -> msgpack
14:52
<
gnufied >
on client side
14:52
<
apeiros >
but since I'll investigate signed commits this WE, I'll also look into git-crypt. might be a good fit at work.
14:52
<
gnufied >
Qt app -> msgpack -> plot stuff
14:54
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14:54
<
workmad3 >
grr... having trouble compiling ruby on ubuntu 14.04...
14:54
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14:54
<
gnufied >
if anyone has worked with zeromq before, the API seems nice enough. but it has tons of gotachas. been wondering, if should have gone with plain sockets
14:55
<
whitequark >
I'm planning to use zmq
14:55
<
whitequark >
(although on ocaml and with protobuf instead of msgpack; ocaml-msgpack is just insane)
14:55
<
gnufied >
which mode of messaging you will be using?
14:55
<
|jemc| >
gnufied: just joined, so I may have missed a few key messages - what are your gotcahs you're running into with 0mq?
14:56
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14:56
<
whitequark >
gnufied: pubsub and req/router
14:56
<
whitequark >
|jemc|: I really wish there was a way to get the curve pubkey
14:57
<
whitequark >
I'm even willing to write all the code if someone tells me how to design it properly--I'm not an expert on zmq internals
14:57
<
gnufied >
Ijemcl, I am just talking about documented ones for now.
14:57
<
gnufied >
close the message once done, use multipart if message is big enough
14:58
<
gnufied >
those are from C side though. admiteddly ruby bindings simplify a lot of stuff, but I am not using those
14:58
<
|jemc| >
whitequark: yes, the codebase is somewhat unapproachable
14:59
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14:59
<
|jemc| >
gnufied: I assume you've already looked at czmq?
14:59
<
|jemc| >
(which provides higher-level c bindings?)
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15:01
<
gnufied >
yes, I did see it mentioned. but I am yet to see api provided by czmq, will look tonight
15:01
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15:01
<
apeiros >
that's what I made from that silly gist
15:02
<
whitequark >
apeiros: please do not allow user to change algorithm
15:02
<
whitequark >
it is a very easy way to shoot yourself in the foot
15:02
<
|jemc| >
from our end, we've started to become a bit concerned with zeromq's stability; in our unit tests that create and use and destroy lots of sockets in a short period of time we've been getting some libzmq internal assertion failures
15:02
<
|jemc| >
that was on v4 stable, and latest git head seemed to "solve" those problems and introduce others
15:03
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15:03
<
crankharder >
is there a difference between %w() and %w[] ?
15:03
<
apeiros >
whitequark: I'll document that one should not change. providing a default
*hopefully* suffices to avoid people using bad schemes
15:03
<
whitequark >
crankharder: no
15:03
<
|jemc| >
I put "solve" in quotes, because I crawled the commit history and never saw a commit dedicated to solving the issue
15:03
<
whitequark >
apeiros: no. you should not even allow the change.
15:03
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15:03
<
apeiros >
whitequark: that somewhat kills upgradeability
15:04
<
apeiros >
I guess I could encode the used algorithm with the data
15:04
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15:04
<
whitequark >
yes, that sounds much better.
15:04
<
|jemc| >
gnufied: I haven't used czmq myself - but if I was doing these things from c, I would likely be using czmq
15:04
<
apeiros >
1 byte should suffice for all the needs ever (256 possible algorithms)
15:05
<
whitequark >
or just encode it with a string
15:05
<
whitequark >
so it'll be readable to anyone reading the data dump
15:05
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15:05
<
apeiros >
they need to know iv vs. data anyway
15:05
<
gnufied >
|jemc|: cool.
15:06
<
whitequark >
apeiros: actually, now that I think about it, use AES-GCM.
15:06
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15:07
<
whitequark >
or the other alternatives to AES-GCM he lists, but AES-GCM is not too bad itself afaik
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15:15
<
apeiros >
needs a check whether the library is outdated (digest/algorithm index not available --> outdated)
15:15
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15:17
<
whitequark >
s,CBC,GCM, and you'll be fine :p
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15:21
<
apeiros >
yeah, that'll be my short test for upgrading encryption :)
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15:22
<
ironcamel >
is there a document for best practices for releasing a ruby gem?
15:24
<
yorickpeterse >
boom, basic pull parsing API
15:24
<
yorickpeterse >
Took me a week to come up with a proper idea, only an hour or two to implement it
15:24
<
apeiros >
whitequark: now with Encryption.upgrade(data: data, password: pw) :)
15:24
<
apeiros >
simply decrypts and re-encrypts the data
15:26
<
apeiros >
whitequark: blargh: RuntimeError: unsupported cipher algorithm (AES-256-GCM)
15:27
<
apeiros >
gtg, commute
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15:32
<
whitequark >
apeiros: wtf, openssl seems to not have any authenticated modes at all
15:32
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15:32
<
whitequark >
either i am wrong or it is amazingly shitty
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15:52
<
havenwood >
whitequark: works for me with `OpenSSL::Cipher.new 'aes-256-gcm'` but not `OpenSSL::Cipher::AES.new(256, :GCM)` or `OpenSSL::Cipher::AES256.new(:GCM)`
15:53
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15:55
<
havenwood >
(linked against openssl 1.0.1g)
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16:03
<
apeiros >
whitequark: I guess I need to read up what "authenticated mode" means. I thought that was when you supply a password. but it sounds like that's not it.
16:03
<
whitequark >
apeiros: 15:52 < havenwood> whitequark: works for me with `OpenSSL::Cipher.new 'aes-256-gcm'` but not `OpenSSL::Cipher::AES.new(256, :GCM)` or `OpenSSL::Cipher::AES256.new(:GCM)`
16:03
<
whitequark >
apeiros: authentication protects the ciphertext from tampering
16:03
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16:04
<
apeiros >
hm, I guess OpenSSL 1.0.1f 6 Jan 2014 is pre heartbleed
16:04
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16:04
<
whitequark >
e.g. with some modes, you can change e.g. "DEPOSIT $000100 TO apeiros" to "DEPOSIT $100000 TO apeiros" without knowing either the key or full message
16:04
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16:04
<
apeiros >
yeah, seen that, thanks to your awesome irclog :D
16:04
<
whitequark >
authentication would detect that, plain CBC would not
16:04
<
apeiros >
kind of integrity check
16:04
<
whitequark >
integrity, exactly.
16:04
<
apeiros >
weird that modes which don't have that even exist
16:05
<
apeiros >
I mean… wtf?
16:05
<
whitequark >
hahahaha
16:05
<
whitequark >
well, they're basic building blocks for authenticated modes
16:05
<
whitequark >
but openssl exposing them to users is almost malicious
16:05
<
apeiros >
unless… the intended feature is plausible deniability, but that's unlikely
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16:05
<
whitequark >
authentication provides plausible deniability
16:05
<
whitequark >
well, some modes of authentication
16:06
<
whitequark >
ugh. not like that
16:06
<
whitequark >
it's more of a problem with public-key systems
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16:07
<
whitequark >
so there are in principle two distinct operations, signing and authentication. signing confirms the identity of the sender and the integrity of message
16:07
<
whitequark >
whereas authentication only confirms integrity, i.e. a valid authenticator can be created by the recipient
16:07
<
whitequark >
note that not everyone uses the terminology the same way. the statements above come from djb's writings
16:09
<
whitequark >
I don't think plausible deniability is an issue with secret-key systems but I may be wrong. I mean, if the key is wrong and you get back garbage, it's not "plausible"
16:09
<
whitequark >
whereas with public key systems if you can prove that the receiver could have easily forged the authenticator, sure
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16:15
<
apeiros >
`if the key is wrong and you get back garbage, it's not "plausible"` that's why I meant "it's unlikely"
16:15
<
apeiros >
thanks for the explanation!
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16:24
<
eam >
speaking of almost malicious design in security software, libc crypt()'s behavior of falling back to weaker hashes is :(
16:25
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16:25
<
eam >
"secret".crypt("$6$saltysalt$") on a modern linux -> sha512. But try it on osx and you get DES. In general, if a requested hash isn't implemented it appears to fall back to something weaker
16:26
<
eam >
pretty much the opposite of what anyone should want
16:26
<
apeiros >
I wish more people were fans of "explode loud and early"
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16:27
<
apeiros >
I hate software which silently does the wrong thing. worse so if it does despite explicitly being asked not to.
16:27
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16:27
<
katlogic >
Time to market, quick and dirty rules this rotten world.
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<
ddfreyne >
eam: Oh, ouch.
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16:32
<
apeiros >
katlogic: I somewhat doubt this applies to a tool like crypt()
16:32
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16:32
<
apeiros >
there it's just bad design decisions
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16:53
<
imperator >
anyone else get systemstackerrors from using load in irb?
16:53
<
imperator >
works the first couple times, then starts crapping out
16:53
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16:54
<
imperator >
C:/Ruby200-x64/lib/ruby/2.0.0/irb/workspace.rb:86
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17:03
<
apeiros >
whitequark: out of CBC-HMAC-SHA1, CFB, CFB1, CFB8, CTR, ECB, OFB and XTS (listed by OpenSSL as available with AES-256), which one to choose?
17:03
<
apeiros >
whitequark: as far as I understand, CBC-HMAC-SHA1 would be with authentication?
17:03
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17:11
<
apeiros >
just that it doesn't work :(
17:11
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17:11
<
apeiros >
supplying it as the algorithm successfully encrypts, but fails at decrypting with "OpenSSL::Cipher::CipherError: "
17:11
<
apeiros >
(yes, that's without an actual message after the classname :-S)
17:12
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17:12
<
apeiros >
currently scouring the web whether it needs additional work on my part
17:13
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17:14
<
wallerdev >
if you supply the same parameters for encrypting and decrypting, make sure it didnt modify your parameters when encrypting
17:14
<
apeiros >
wallerdev: it works fine with AES-256-CBC
17:14
<
apeiros >
but not with AES-256-CBC-HMAC-SHA1
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17:15
<
wallerdev >
yeah i just know in C the AES algorithm destroys your IV parameter that you send in so you have to respecify it haha
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17:24
<
whitequark >
this is horrible.
17:24
<
whitequark >
please ping @bascule on twitter
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17:52
<
sonne >
is there a way to make a proper duplicate of an object? i tried .dup and .clone, but every time i edit the copy the original one gets edited as well
17:52
<
sonne >
is there a more proper way than serializing/unserializing?
17:53
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17:54
<
apeiros >
sonne: I think you're confusing .dup for a deep copy
17:54
<
sonne >
apeiros, i must admit i haven't been able to find clearer information..
17:54
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17:55
<
apeiros >
sonne: dup will indeed duplicate your object. it does NOT by default copy its contents too.
17:55
<
apeiros >
sonne: if it's your own class, implement a proper #initialize_copy
17:55
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17:55
<
sonne >
apeiros, it's a hash
17:55
<
sonne >
i'm trying to run a delete_if() on a copy of it so the original is not altered, but i can't figure out how to make such a copy
17:56
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17:56
<
apeiros >
sonne: well, dup is sufficient for that
17:56
<
apeiros >
if your original is also altered, you do something else wrong…
17:56
<
apeiros >
>> h1 = {a: 1, b: 2}; h2 = h1.dup; h2.reject! do |k,v| v>1 end; [h1, h2]
17:57
<
apeiros >
I suspected you mutated some of its values. and then .dup won't help:
17:57
<
sonne >
maybe i fizzled something by playing with irb
17:57
<
sonne >
i'll try reassigning the original hash to another name...
17:57
<
apeiros >
>> h1 = {a: "x"}; h2 = h1.dup; h2[:a].upcase!; [h1, h2]
17:57
<
apeiros >
sonne: reassigning does not copy.
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18:01
<
sonne >
apeiros, sec
18:01
<
sonne >
what am i doing wrong?
18:01
<
apeiros >
sonne: you dup a, you do not dup a[:c]
18:01
<
apeiros >
the hash within the hash is a different object
18:02
<
apeiros >
as said, dup does not copy contents of an object. it only copies the object itself.
18:02
<
sonne >
so i should make a... deep deep copy?
18:02
<
apeiros >
you'd need a deep copy. but deep copies are a flawed concept.
18:02
<
apeiros >
proper classes would probably serve you better.
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18:03
<
sonne >
what do you mean?
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18:06
<
|jemc| >
joshsz: pt.call(x) instead of pt(x)
18:06
<
joshsz >
|jemc|: the []s work as an alias to call
18:06
<
joshsz >
haha, I see, dur
18:06
<
|jemc| >
joshsz: but you're not using that inside the second Proc
18:07
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18:07
<
joshsz >
see, I knew it was something dumb. Thanks!!
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19:04
<
cout >
I'm confused.
19:04
<
cout >
Can someone explain to me?
19:05
<
cout >
(specifically, the world)
19:05
<
cout >
(it doesn't make sense)
19:05
<
centrx >
The world? You mean Object/BasicObject?
19:06
<
cout >
no, the real world
19:06
<
cout >
the one that Object is supposed to be abstracting.
19:06
* imperator
is very confused
19:06
<
cout >
ruby world makes so much sense. clean, well organized.
19:06
<
cout >
real world is... crazy
19:07
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19:08
<
centrx >
crazy? is that a gem?
19:08
<
cout >
oh dear I hope not
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19:23
<
apeiros >
cout: gem install world; ruby -e 'World.instance.clean_up!'
19:23
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19:23
<
apeiros >
also check out .sanitize!
19:24
<
cout >
help me my world disappeared everything is gone
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<
apeiros >
cout: you used the fez wrong!
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19:34
<
cout >
I thought it went nicely with my bowtie..
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<
Lewix >
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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20:27
* apeiros
beams the batman signal into the sky, so batman can rescue Lewix
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<
ratmav >
is to_json deprecated?
21:48
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21:58
<
TTilus >
ActiveRecord::Serialization#to_json, yes
21:58
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22:01
<
TTilus >
it is ActiveSupport::JSON.encode now, i guess
22:01
<
TTilus >
for railsters
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<
whitequark >
apeiros: how much is algorithm changed wrt/ AS::MessageVerifier?
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