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<rqou> i just learned about an amazing technology
<rqou> negative capacitance FETs
<rqou> cc azonenberg
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<cr1901_modern> negative impedance converters are nothing new?
<rqou> not the same thing
<rqou> a FET with a region of effective negative capacitance by adding ferroelectric material to the gate
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<awygle> Oh yeah I saw that when I was doing fram research a while back
<awygle> My device physics is not good enough to really appreciate it though
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<awygle> I guess adding more FETs would make a net faster or something?
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<rqou> i don't understand the physics too well either
<rqou> but apparently the negative capacitance can make the FET "better" because you get effectively "more" gate voltage
<rqou> apparently "how to combine with a FRAM process" is still an open question
<rqou> but that's definitely something that they want to do
<rqou> ferroelectric materials are weird
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<cr1901_modern> "more" gate voltage _range_, or higher magnitudes possible relative to gnd?
<rqou> more effective voltage
<rqou> imagine a voltage divider with capacitors
<rqou> now make one of them negative
<cr1901_modern> oh, so you make voltage appear "from thin air"?
<rqou> kinda
<rqou> except it's not "from thin air"
<cr1901_modern> of course, I'm just handwavy tonight
<rqou> the dissertation talk i attended specifically discussed this
<rqou> there were concerns of "where did the energy come from?"
<rqou> but essentially the tl'dr as far as i understood it is:
<rqou> when you charge and discharge a normal MOS cap, the energy is just wasted
<rqou> but the ferroelectric material can capture and retain some of that energy
<pie_> ah
<awygle> A sci fi book I read once described these super-thermoelectric materials as having "intrinsic potential" and I thought of ferroelectrics immediately
<awygle> That stuff is magic
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<pie_> heh
<pie_> magnets
<pie_> how the fuck do they worj
<awygle> YIL that the fly height of a modern hard drive is 0.8nm
<awygle> Which seems pretty unlikely
<cr1901_modern> Totally unrelated (not really): I wonder what is the minimum distance we are capable of moving our finger (in millimeters) in response to a neural stimuli?
<rqou> i don't know about that, but minimum detectable surface height variation is ridiculously small
<qu1j0t3> probably somebody has measured it.
<cr1901_modern> Basically: How lightly do I have to touch the head of a modern hard drive to not break it :P?
<rqou> apparently humans use a lot of superresolution techniques (vision definitely does)
<pie_> any yet birds still hve better eyes apparently
<pie_> ok *somme* animals at least
<lain> I recently learned something fascinating about vision.. apparently different parts of the brain process it in their own way, separately
<cr1901_modern> superresolution techniques?
<lain> there were some tests where people with functioning eyes but no /vision/ were able to run through a room avoiding obstacles
<lain> if they walked, they ran into stuff, because the part of the brain responsible for instinctive object avoidance wasn't doing anything
<cr1901_modern> that's... weird ._.
<lain> iirc it was only applicable to people who lost normal vision through some sort of brain .. thing
<Bike> Oh, I know about that! Though I forgot the name off the top of my head.
<lain> but this is why for example athletes can react to things faster than their conscious mind can process the visual input
<Bike> It's actually just an example of more general problems where people sort of lose self-check capability.
<lain> because a completely separate, specific-purpose part of the brain is reacting to the input at a higher rate
<Bike> Though I think the obstacle thing might have failed a replication lately
<lain> oh? interesting :D
<Bike> yeah let me see if i can find a link
<Bike> "anosognosia" is the general term
<Bike> wait. no i completely misread this. that's unrelated
<lain> there's also the whole split brain stuff, which is just insane :D
<Bike> which is not to say that there aren't lots of pathways. Did you know that in addition to rods and cones, there's a third kind of light sensitive cell that just feeds circadian rhythms?
<lain> huh, I did not know that!
<cr1901_modern> There's also fourth color cones IIRC?
<Bike> tetrachomacy, yeah.
<Bike> i mean they're pretty rare.
<awygle> That's x-linked right? Or something like that?
<pie_> TIL shrimp see EVERYTHING https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_shrimp#Eyes
<pie_> our shrimp overlords
<Bike> well, they see everything badly.
<jn__> they're like managers
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<pie_> lol
<pie_> too bad
<pie_> they have the technology
<awygle> Also worth a Google - cuttlefish
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<rqou> hmm, google knows that when i search "berkeley library catalog" i want oskicat and not the public library catalog
<rqou> the power of machine learning(tm)
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<pie_> azonenberg, my sister asked me to get her some winter gloves for her birthday, given that youre the local not die bz going outside expert, zou have any recommendations?
<pie_> s/z/y
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<awygle> TIL about DOH - DNS over HTTP
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<pie_> not even http over dns? :P
<awygle> It's to prevent institutions from blocking or diverting DNS traffic as an instrument of policy, apparently
<qu1j0t3> LOL
<qu1j0t3> as if that would ever happen
<balrog> awygle: I've seen A LOT of that
<balrog> (diversion of DNS)
<balrog> but I'm seeing more and more of blocking at firewall level (using a transparent/"invisible" proxy)
<awygle> balrog: meaning packet inspection at the HTTP layer?
<balrog> awygle: comparing IPs/hostnames against e.g. Palo Alto Networks' PAN-DB
<balrog> and then providing forged traffic if it's a banned site
<awygle> balrog: ah
<balrog> (which of course breaks with HSTS)
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<awygle> Seems like there are ways to solve that as long as the adversary wants to allow _some_ internet traffic
<rqou> https://twitter.com/iangcarroll/status/940281927789146112 PKI is just a protection racket, news at 11
<rqou> especially EV
<rqou> although i do have to admit that the marketing of EV was quite impressive at convincing people it definitely added value and wasn't just a racket
<rqou> they even got browser people to add special codepaths just for them
<qu1j0t3> yeah it stank
<awygle> Our security consultant guy just gave a presentation about why we should own our PKI. I was impressed that he didn't respond to "but our customers trust the cert vendors" with "then our customers are idiots"
<rqou> at least I'm glad we finally killed the shady-as-heck formerly-Israeli CA with the green website
<cr1901_modern> I hope the person who created that acronym was a Simpsons fan
<rqou> why?
<cr1901_modern> Oh I was talking about awygle's "TIL" and didn't scroll to see that I'm 40 minutes behind
<pie_> i mean if you have any traffic thats not deep inspected you basically have a pipe to the outside world
<pie_> and even then you might have a really slow one xP
<awygle> rqou: which was that?
<rqou> StartCom
<awygle> Ah
* awygle doesn't really follow this stuff
<rqou> startcom always gave off a feeling of being super sketchy, but they were free
<rqou> they got acquired by the chinese ca WoSign
<rqou> which operated it "in a manner not inconsistent with my expectations from a chinese company"
<rqou> but apparently that pissed off "infosec" people enough for them to force-distrust them
<qu1j0t3> lol rqou
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<rqou> what? it's true
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<awygle> https://youtu.be/o7CYATVZTmE relevant to our conversation weeks ago about caps
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<cyrozap> So I was reading this article (https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/why-power-lines-anime-electrical-infrastructure) which I found via HN (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15904630), and then suddenly, "The Tumblr _Power Lines in Anime_ is dedicated to appreciating the truly lovely and surprisingly ubiquitous depictions of mundane power lines that appear in a large number of Japanese animation
<cyrozap> series. The blog is run by Tumblr user whitequark, who first started to notice the trend while watching a romantic comedy anime."
<cyrozap> whitequark: It was kinda weird seeing your name pop up in a non-FPGA-related article :P
<cyrozap> even though this is probably a normal thing for people who have done a lot of stuff online under the same name.
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<rqou> azonenberg: are the final slides for the bitstream re talk public?
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<awygle> monogatari powerlines best powerlines
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<fouric> evangelion's are obviously better
<Zorix> i vote evangelion too
<zino> Lain
<lain> hello yes this is lain
<awygle> I don't remember the power lines in eva tbh
<rqou> not dog? :P
<lain> :P
<zino> Heh, yea, I cast my vote for Serial Experiments Lain, not you specificly. :)
<fouric> username checks out
<awygle> I haven't seen that yet :-/
<fouric> neither have i, although a friend who has gave it a poor rating
<zino> It's good. For convoluted I have credits on the Italian release of that. I do not speak a word of Italian. :)
<lain> lol
<fouric> zino: lololololol what why how
<zino> I have an italian fried who needed some help doing image analysis and research on some scenes when he did the translation.
<fouric> that's pretty cool!
* fouric wants some Italian Fries now
<fouric> cyrozap: when i first saw the article, i thought it was a different whitequark
<fouric> then i checked the tumblr and found their twitter
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