<rqou>
which was what i always thought was the whole point of domain sockets
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<rqou_>
offtopic: why do so many devboards _suck_ at IO?
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<rqou_>
(context: procrastinating by watching the adafruit stream)
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<qu1j0t3>
rqou: in what way?
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<rqou>
usually some combination of *) too few IO *) not enough alternate modes exposed *) (for higher-end boards) poor signal integrity *) (for higher-end boards) too much fancy signal integrity and too few "dumb" pins
<qu1j0t3>
i've been cursing the weird gpio -> header mapping on the freedom board.
<qu1j0t3>
either i'm stupid or the schematic is mislabelled
<rqou>
lol that too
<rqou>
fpga boards tend to have this type of problem all the time
<rqou>
most arm SoC boards seem to fall into the "too few IOs" category
<qu1j0t3>
i picked this Freedom KE06Z because it should have enough for what i need
<qu1j0t3>
at least
<qu1j0t3>
if i can figure out the mappings...
<qu1j0t3>
but arduino compatibility might be a bad thing in terms of wild permutations of pins. consecutive pins are spread out on all corners of the board.
<qu1j0t3>
port pins*
<rqou>
i really hate the arduino pinout
<qu1j0t3>
yeah, i mean i just want to write an 8 bit port with 8 pins on one header, in order, this is far too much to ask.
<monochroma>
s/ pinout//
<rqou>
yeah, in general i don't like arduino
<balrog>
isn't the pinout like that because they wanted to put PWM pins together and such
<rqou>
idk
<balrog>
there's a set of quick references that's great for this
<rqou>
but not just that, there's also the "oops" pin spacing
<balrog>
yeah that part is annoying.
<balrog>
that 0.5mm space
<rqou>
and the fact that it's really really wide
<balrog>
that is for easy PTH
<rqou>
i also don't get why the "maker" world is so obsessed with PTH
<rqou>
i personally find SMD much easier
<balrog>
SMD requires more tools
<balrog>
and is more finicky
<balrog>
also paste spoils, etc
<rqou>
well, "mid-range" early-90s-ish SMD with only QFPs and maybe QFNs and no BGAs
<rqou>
this can be done without paste
<qu1j0t3>
balrog: ok but look at this permutation on one header of the freedom board - PORT B 0, B1, D5, D0, A1, D1, B4, A7. and that's even before i try and figure out why there are two PORT B pin 4's on the schematic
<rqou>
trololol
<qu1j0t3>
and this is supposed to be arduino shield compatible, but the pinout seems to be worse, unless compatibility is only physical and not port compatibility.
<rqou>
arduino-compatibles are even worse
<rqou>
a lot of them end up with artificially-limited IO
<qu1j0t3>
except i am moving off a Duemilanove and I could get my 8 bits on just 2 ports.
<qu1j0t3>
with the freedom map i can do it but the wires are permuted across four corners of the board.
<qu1j0t3>
ugh. ignore me. work is shit and i turn to my project for relaxation and the schematic is inscrutable :)
* awygle
is contractually obligated to point out how much worse QFNs are to solder than BGAs
<rqou>
with a reflow oven?
<rqou>
yeah, i think i've heard that
* qu1j0t3
close-reads awygle 's contract
<awygle>
With anything ever
<rqou>
i've been able to do them with a hot air tool
<awygle>
qu1j0t3: I work for Big BGA
<awygle>
rqou: so have I but BGA are still easier
<rqou>
i've yet to actually do a BGA
<qu1j0t3>
awygle: lol
<rqou>
i was going to repeat azonenberg's bga coolrunner test, but iirc he told me that isn't a good idea
<qu1j0t3>
so i have a stupid question, never having done smd, when you use hot air, do you glue the piece in place first?
<rqou>
no
<rqou>
i usually do either nothing or tack it in place with flux
<qu1j0t3>
well, tacking is what i meant.
<rqou>
(which is probably too much flux for a bga)
<qu1j0t3>
but the tacking would be on, like, corner pins?
<azonenberg>
If i'm hand soldering i'll sometimes solder the two corner pins first to hold it down
<qu1j0t3>
pardon my total noobness at anything that's not through-hole.
<rqou>
the way i've done QFNs is to tin the pads on the pcb
<qu1j0t3>
azonenberg: Ah!
<azonenberg>
But 99% of the time i only use irons for through hole and rework
<rqou>
and then put a ton of flux on the now-tinned pads
<azonenberg>
i strooongly prefer to use reflow for everything
<rqou>
put the chip on top
<rqou>
and heat it with a hot air tool
<qu1j0t3>
rqou: sounds good.
<azonenberg>
Anything you can do to make physics do the work for you is good
<rqou>
this procedure does _not_ work for BGAs
<azonenberg>
For BGAs, you can do the same thing without tinning the pads
<azonenberg>
Smear them with flux then hot air the BGA down
<rqou>
but the amount of flux i put down can cause voids or other issues
<azonenberg>
the balls are sufficient solder
<rqou>
you need to put a lot less than i do
<azonenberg>
Yes, you dont want a huge amount :p
<azonenberg>
And, depending on the size of the BGA, you're better off using an oven to assemble the board than hot air
<azonenberg>
i prefer to only use hot air for rework and not for a new design
<rqou>
you also don't want the flux that some friends managed to order that is slightly conductive
<rqou>
:P
<rqou>
it's such a huge pain to deal with too because simple washing doesn't fix it thanks to surface tension
<rqou>
guess how that was discovered? :P
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
You're supposed to use no-clean flux for stuff like this
<rqou>
i think it was supposed to be no-clean
<rqou>
i don't have the name, but iirc it was some liquid flux from kester
<rqou>
i personally use a paste flux from mg chemicals that i bought ages ago
<cr1901_modern>
How do I know if I have no-clean/non-conductive flux?
<rqou>
it works fine except cleaning it is even worse
<rqou>
cr1901_modern: you measure it? :P
<cr1901_modern>
rqou: That doesn't help me?
<balrog>
rqou: it sounds like you got water soluble flux
<rqou>
iirc for the one i was having trouble with you could literally dip multimeter probes into it
<balrog>
no clean flux is much harder to clean but isn't conductive
<rqou>
yeah, well it wasn't particularly water-soluble either :P
<cr1901_modern>
I have tacky flux from Radio Smack
<cr1901_modern>
I mean it's worked fine in the past, but Idk if it's "no clean"
<rqou>
although imho the _worst_ flux is rosin
<cr1901_modern>
yup, it's rosin flux
<cr1901_modern>
just checked
* rqou
should throw out my shitty rosin-core not-even-eutectic solder i bought from the Shack ages ago
<Zorix>
i use mg chemicals flux and kester solder
<qu1j0t3>
rqou: send it to me!
* qu1j0t3
giggles
<rqou>
why?
<qu1j0t3>
i, uh
<qu1j0t3>
i'd probably use it on my equally shitty protoboards
<Zorix>
use the cheaper less performing solder for things like soldering wires together or connectors where it doesnt matter quite as much
<qu1j0t3>
with this shitty iron, it'd be a match made in heaven
<qu1j0t3>
yeah
<qu1j0t3>
i am sure it still has uses
<rqou>
i sure love living in the land of FREEDOM!, AR-15s, and still-no-lead-ban :P
<Zorix>
i need to find a good no clean alcohol based flux dispenser.. i got one of those ink bottle ones but they dont seal air tight so it evaporates
<Zorix>
there is a lead ban actually..
<Zorix>
domestic lead production
<rqou>
why hasn't T*ump repealed it yet? :P
<Zorix>
not exactly a ban but epa requirements that are so restrictive that it forced closed all the production facilities
<Zorix>
heh
<qu1j0t3>
but that was the _old_ EPA
<Zorix>
you dont actually want that stuff here anyways
<Zorix>
sure but once its closed its not like they will start it up again
<qu1j0t3>
so things will be back to normal pollution levels soon!
<Zorix>
heh
<rqou>
nah, we'll just put it in Flint :P
<qu1j0t3>
#notReallyFunny
<qu1j0t3>
they still don't have water...
<Zorix>
let the overseas people deal with it
<rqou>
apparently most lead production happens in China
<rqou>
no surprise there
<azonenberg>
Zorix: I normally use a syringe to dispense my sticky flux
<azonenberg>
i dont use thin runny flux
<azonenberg>
for solvents, i use dropper bottles
<Zorix>
ah
<Zorix>
ill have to use a dropper bottle then
<azonenberg>
i dont recommend them for flux, you cant control it enough
<azonenberg>
the drops are pretty large
<Zorix>
was thinking about it but wasnt sure if the alcohol or solvent would attack it
<Zorix>
hmm
<azonenberg>
a syringe lets you dispense micrograms at a time precisely where you need
<azonenberg>
Most of my dropper bottles are approaching ten years old though, and the rubber is starting to degrade
<azonenberg>
Not sure if from solvent effects or just old
<Zorix>
hmm
<azonenberg>
but hey, ten year lifetime is pretty good
<Zorix>
yea
<azonenberg>
i dont mind replacnig the dropper once a decade :p
<Zorix>
but see i use the no clean alcohol based flux mostly
<rqou>
my friend used needle-tipped bottles for runny flux
<rqou>
but i still hate it
<azonenberg>
i use sticky no-clean flux
<rqou>
it gets everywhere and all the bottles end up sticky after a while
<azonenberg>
I hate using needle bottles
<azonenberg>
we have them at work
<azonenberg>
they're a nightmare
<rqou>
yeah, my sticky flux is loaded in a syringe
<azonenberg>
me and monochroma ended up buying some of my favorite flux in syringes so we didnt have to use it :p
<rqou>
syringes are surprisingly useful
<rqou>
too bad they occasionally get labeled as "paraphernalia" by idiots
<azonenberg>
rqou: yeeah
<qu1j0t3>
:(
<azonenberg>
one of the reasons i dont have pointed needles, only blunt ones
<azonenberg>
that are obviously useless for injection
<azonenberg>
(also for my own safety, less sharp stuff is always better)
<rqou>
nurdrage/nilered seem to be fine
<rqou>
but then they're in canada
<Zorix>
yea id rather not have sharp points either
<azonenberg>
That being said, i'm actually trained on how to administer IM injections of epi for anaphylactic shock
<azonenberg>
So i could always use that excuse too :p
<azonenberg>
Realistically, given my track record of publications related to silicon security etc, i doubt i'd have any trouble explaining what my lab was for at this point
<azonenberg>
It's a lot scarier if you're a nobody
<rqou>
whereas i'm now probably known for lab meltdowns :P
<azonenberg>
:p
<rqou>
although i was poking around digshadow's blog the other day and i discovered that he actually did the exact same thing a few years ago
<rqou>
:P
<azonenberg>
lol yes he isnt exactly known for lab safety (he has improved recently)
<azonenberg>
But i mean, once you've given an invited talk at cambridge university related to your research
<azonenberg>
it's pretty hard to argue that you don't have some idea of what you're doing :p
<azonenberg>
And recently i've been putting a lot of effort in being my own EH&S department
<azonenberg>
My new garage is going to have an actual properly labeled etc eye wash and shower
<rqou>
wow, fancy
<rqou>
i should get my parents to install at least a sink in the garage :P
<azonenberg>
They're surprisingly inexpensive
<azonenberg>
And i'm plumbing the garage for a sink anyway
<Zorix>
safety is important
<rqou>
meanwhile fume hoods and acid cabinets are super expensive
<Zorix>
when working with electronics nothing is more important than your eyes
<Zorix>
lose those and its over
<rqou>
i actually don't use eye protection when soldering
<rqou>
i've never felt it to be actually useful
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<azonenberg>
rqou: I wear eye pro when soldering without a microscope
<Zorix>
i dont either.. or any fume extraction, i usually exhale as im soldering to keep the fumes away from me and only breathe in when i turn around
<rqou>
meanwhile my housemate wears eye protection when cooking bacon :P
<azonenberg>
Typically I have a pair of glasses up on my forehead when using the scope and flip them down as soon as i move away from the eyepiece to, say, re-tin the tip (a fairly high-risk operation as soldering goes)
<azonenberg>
rqou: i've done that
<azonenberg>
Zorix: Fume extraction is on the TODO for the new garage too
<Zorix>
good deal
<azonenberg>
it's going to be actually OSHA compliant to the extent i possibly can
<azonenberg>
i'm even gonna stick in an exit sign for lulz
<rqou>
you mean, not a box fan? :P
<azonenberg>
This is in addition to a filter-based 4-foot fume hood on one of the benches
<rqou>
hey, i turned it up to "max" :P
<azonenberg>
for solvent cleans, decapping, etc
<azonenberg>
I already have proper approved cabinets for solvent and corrosive storage
<Zorix>
my "bench" is a folding card table with some solder stations, a small holder, some oscilloscopes and a bench supply on cardboard boxes right next to it.. hehe
<azonenberg>
Yeah
<Zorix>
and a piece of shelving wood to solder on so i dont burn the table surface
<azonenberg>
well i'm buying a new house friday
<Zorix>
awesome
<Zorix>
when i get a house and not a small condo like this ill do everything proper as well
<azonenberg>
I'm still budgeting the specifics of renovations, but i'm going to be spending the first few months renovating the living spaces since the house was built in the 70s and was owned by a smoker
<azonenberg>
I'm doing a 100% rewire, new HVAC cabling, new sheetrock, and new insulation
<Zorix>
well thats going to be fun heh
<azonenberg>
Once that's done I plan to sink "new car" level cash into turning the garage plus a room or two downstairs into 500+ ft^2 of lab space
<Zorix>
no car storage then?
<azonenberg>
If you're doing all the labor, you can stretch your money pretty far
<azonenberg>
lolol the wife's car is banished to the driveway
<Zorix>
hehe
<azonenberg>
I have to find bike parking somewhere, though
<azonenberg>
i may try and build a little overhang in front of the house to lock it up under
<Zorix>
yea i prefer doing almost all work myself unless theres a legal requirement to contract... like a/c replacement
<azonenberg>
or have a parking area in the garage
<azonenberg>
but i really want that floor space available
<azonenberg>
so if i can find somewhere to stick it outside i will
<azonenberg>
Yeah i'm gonna have an electrician put in the new breaker panel
<Zorix>
is it feasible to have a garage building next to it? or is it too close to neighbors
<azonenberg>
then do basically all the rest myelf
<azonenberg>
There's no room out front
<azonenberg>
the backyard has space, and a small shed
<azonenberg>
but i dont want to roll my bike all the way back there
<azonenberg>
unless maybe i paved a sidewalk to it
<Zorix>
yea thats not too feasible
<rqou>
my parents have two sheds in the yard :P
<azonenberg>
Which is certainly a possibility
<azonenberg>
If i had a paved path so the bike didnt sink into the dirt
<rqou>
ETOOMUCHCRAP
<azonenberg>
i'd totally ride into the yard and park it back there
<azonenberg>
just so i didnt have to get road dirt all over my lab
<Zorix>
you wanted to learn to pour concrete, right? heh
<azonenberg>
I've done concrete before
<Zorix>
nice
<azonenberg>
If i was putting a sidewalk in, i'd make it like 6" deep concrete on top of a gravel bed, with rebar inside
<azonenberg>
It wouldn't be going ANYWHERE :P
<rqou>
btw azonenberg if you renovate the electrical wiring, won't you be forced to put in those terrible crappy allegedly-crotchfruit-resistant outlets?
<azonenberg>
rqou: Yes, but i need to replace the old outlets anyway
<Zorix>
giant sinkhole could consume the house and the sidewalk would be like a bridge across the hole
<rqou>
didn't they also decide to start requiring AFCI everywhere too or something silly like that?
<azonenberg>
half of them dont even have grounds
<azonenberg>
AFCIs are required in most bedrooms
<azonenberg>
i forget specifics but i'll probably err on the side of caution and put them almost everywhere
<Zorix>
what is a crotchfruit?
<Zorix>
heh
<rqou>
a kid that you hate very much :P
<azonenberg>
Zorix: H. Sapiens larvae
<Zorix>
ahhh
<Zorix>
lmao
<rqou>
not a cat :P
<Zorix>
i like that
<Zorix>
im going to work that into daily usage now
<Zorix>
or at least frequent
<rqou>
not a cat, nor a doggo, nor a birb, nor a snek and therefore unwanted :P
<Zorix>
agreed
<azonenberg>
rqou: Honestly, i have no problems with the new code requirements
<rqou>
the outlet shutters i've seen all suck
<rqou>
constant jamming and/or not opening
<azonenberg>
You're probably buying cheap brands
<azonenberg>
I'm going to be getting the good stuff, not whatever the lowest bidder made
<rqou>
oh i never bought one, i just looked at the demos at home depot
<azonenberg>
oh lol
<azonenberg>
there's your problem
<azonenberg>
go to an electrical supply house
<rqou>
and saw customers come in and complain about them to the staff there
<monochroma>
my house has them, havn't had any problems except it's annoying when i want to do something stupid with them
<azonenberg>
Also, try ones that havent been abused by 500 people plugging and unplugging them
<azonenberg>
monochroma: i think they're supposed to be stupid-resistant
<azonenberg>
:p
<azonenberg>
rqou: and I plan to stay in this house for life so i'm OK with sinking extra cash into getting good materials
<rqou>
sure
<azonenberg>
you want bad outlets try the ones on airliners
<rqou>
i've just never heard actually good recommendations for which outlets don't end up flaky
<azonenberg>
You know how much those get abused? several plug/unplug cycles a day, people constantly mashing into them as they get in and out
<azonenberg>
i almost never have those actually mate properly
<azonenberg>
And i bet they're actually really well made when new
<rqou>
oh yeah, those are super awful especially if they're "universal" outlets
<rqou>
btw, i found that the best thing to do for flaky "universal" outlets is to shove a bs1363 in them
<rqou>
that tends to work fine :P
<monochroma>
nickles in the fuse sockets
<rqou>
nah, my father's roommates already did that back in the day :P
<azonenberg>
rqou: lol
<azonenberg>
i actually carry one of those with my travel AC adapter
<azonenberg>
So i can shove things one at a time in there until one makes contact
<azonenberg>
nema 5-15 not working? try a 2-prong european plug
<azonenberg>
or a bs1363
<rqou>
i actually bought some proper bs1363-to-nema and schuko-to-nema adapters now
<rqou>
(which i need to go and find)
<rqou>
that covers most of the destinations i expect to frequently visit, and it's much less flaky than those chinese travel adapters
<azonenberg>
Yeah i have a halfway decent one that actually does full power conversion
<azonenberg>
with a cooling fan and everything
<rqou>
also these adapters now have proper grounds so hopefully i won't be getting y-capacitor-induced shocks any more ;P
<rqou>
*:P
<azonenberg>
Lol
<rqou>
i've found that power converters are for the most part unnecessary
<azonenberg>
yes y-capacitors are a pain
<azonenberg>
Yes most gear runs on both
<rqou>
except for a certain japanese game manufacturer that starts with an N :P
<azonenberg>
but i like having the flexibility to run whatever i need
digshadow has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<monochroma>
outlets with 120/240 switches
<azonenberg>
monochroma: lol, that couldn't go wrong at all
<Zorix>
azonenberg, i have been watching your presentation for hardwear.io.. about halfway through it.. you're a really good public speaker.. whew i dont think i could do that heh
<azonenberg>
Zorix: lol see i thought i wasnt that great :p
<azonenberg>
too many "um"s and losing track of where i am
<Zorix>
hehe nah its not really noticeable
<monochroma>
yeah the part where you go silent, stare off into space and then ask "where am i?" was a bit jarring
<azonenberg>
But it's worse with material i dont know well, i hate presenting on stuff i'm not super familiar
<azonenberg>
If it's stuff that I know inside out, like this, i usually run right through it
<azonenberg>
and, for the most part, it flows decently
<rqou>
hey azonenberg i should sign you up to present on XSS vulnerabilities in framework-du-jour :P
<Zorix>
you definitely show off quite a bit of knowledge.. now im not too familiar with fpgas other than knowing what they do, but the internal structure is new to me, so i find it fascinating
<azonenberg>
rqou: eeew no thanks
<azonenberg>
Zorix: watch my REcon 2015 talk if you want to see more guts (that's a product term CPLD, not a lut based FPGA though)
<rqou>
or a new logic error in blockchain-ponzi-du-jour :P
<azonenberg>
That was my first conference talk ever, although i had previously given lectures for an entire class at RPI plus given a lot of lectures as a TA
<Zorix>
ah, i will have to find that
<azonenberg>
So it probably will look less polished
<Zorix>
i saw you referenced that talk in one of your early slides though
<rqou>
azonenberg: i'm trying to find the subject that you would absolutely _hate_ the most :P
<azonenberg>
i dont think its on youtube but if you google "from silicon to compiler" you should find the raw mp4 hosted on recon.cx
<Zorix>
awesome i will
<azonenberg>
rqou: hmm... effectively integrating Christian theology into corporate management strategy?
<azonenberg>
:p
<azonenberg>
actually no, make it Scientologist theology
<rqou>
lool
<azonenberg>
The former is actually plausible
<Zorix>
actually its on youtube
<azonenberg>
Zorix: oh i guess someone mirrored it
<azonenberg>
The official release was an mp4 over http
<rqou>
yup, i think azonenberg has the most fancy pieces of paper in this channel :P
<azonenberg>
and yet half the fun stuff i do isnt CS or more than tangentially related to it
<azonenberg>
Like all the FPGA work
<rqou>
but the piece of paper is fancy :P
<Zorix>
i had a very basic hardware course where we used a program to simulate digital circuits
<Zorix>
i wish i remembered the name of it
<Zorix>
i think it was logicworks?
<rqou>
logisim?
<rqou>
is it a shitty java thing with green and black wires?
<Zorix>
hmm no doesnt look like it
<Zorix>
im sure it was the logicworks
<Zorix>
learned about how microprocessors worked in that class.. instruction sets and stuff.. had to design and simulate a processor as part of that class.. was kind of fun.. wrote it in java because that was the requirement then
<azonenberg>
eeew
<Zorix>
back in like 2005 or so heh
<rqou>
oh azonenberg i just noticed that you actually do have a photo of your fancy piece of paper on twitter :P
<rqou>
it's fancier than the piece of paper i have now, which was literally mailed by itself in a "do not bend" envelope :P
<qu1j0t3>
"Do not tweet" envelope
<Zorix>
if you do the work to get that piece of paper, you have every right to post it on twitter and brag about it heh
<rqou>
er, to be clear, my fancy piece of paper is a bachelors, not a doctorate
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEhtwvc: dx cblam wolfspra1l DrLuk pakesson bib
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEzjlspjhobq: pakesson dx D
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN I
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEymmkxsa: pakess
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEfrxlk
<rqou>
azonenberg ban plz
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FRE
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEmdfmqa: openfpg
jeandet has joined ##openfpga
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEvjhqqxy: bibor pakesson cblam dx wolfspra1l o
<Zorix>
lol
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEcnnqsxxuf: bibor cblam openfpga-bb pakesson dx wolfspra1l DrLuk
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN I
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEcduoifa: dx openfpga-bb pakesson wolfspra1l cblam DrLuk bibor
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FRE
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEloysre: pakesson cblam wolfspra1l DrLuk openf
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEgtxhm: DrLuk openfpga-bb cblam bibor wolfspra1l pakesso
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEagucf: dx bibor cblam openfpga-bb wolfspra1l
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODElhsnv: cblam bibor wolfspra1l DrLuk dx openfp
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FRE
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODExokfqpuohc: cblam openfpg
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEocpoy
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEpmcmzqsp: DrLuk
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEakmoetstl: dx w
<Zorix>
someone kick that tard
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN I
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODElzzyb
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEmzevu
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEnwldemd: wolfsp
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE
<rqou>
azonenberg ban plz
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODExasjvnorph: DrLuk wolfspra1l bibor dx openfpga-bb pakes
<rqou>
who else is op?
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FRE
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN I
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN I
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEtkayndotz: pakesson wolfs
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEvdmtryng: DrLuk openfpga-bb cblam bibor dx pa
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEhbdzaeeir: bibor pakesson cblam wolfspra1l openfpga-bb
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEvxxtfu: dx DrLuk pakesson openfpga-bb bibor cblam wolfspra1l
<Lord_Nightmare>
FUUUCK
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEdgryv
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROO
<Lord_Nightmare>
someone ban that clown
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEtrjic
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEbphshmlf: cblam openfpga-bb pakesson DrLuk wolfspra1l dx bibor
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FRE
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN I
<rqou>
azonenberg whitequark balrog ban plz
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FRE
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROO
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEguzfuqfzg: DrLuk wolfspra1l dx pake
<ironmaid69>
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEwhlwql: openfpga-bb pakesson bibor cblam dx w
ironmaid69 was banned on ##openfpga by azonenberg [ironmaid69!*@*]
<azonenberg>
rqou: sorry, was AFK having noms
<rqou>
lol me too
<balrog>
This crap is network wide
<rqou>
but i'm at the keyboard instead :P
ironmaid69 has quit [K-Lined]
<balrog>
And cross network
<rqou>
yeah, i see it in #musl
<balrog>
It’s been ongoing :/
<rqou>
is this related to that weird pirate radio or whatever spam from the other day?
<Zorix>
im wondering if theres any truth to the statement
<Zorix>
looks like andrew lee does own freenode now
<azonenberg>
W/e, ignore the spam
<azonenberg>
in other news, my v0.2 active diff probe design is coming along nicely
<azonenberg>
Schematic is done, went through schematic review last night and today
<azonenberg>
Working on PCB footprints now
<azonenberg>
Hoping to get it done and sent to fab before i leave for the holidays
<rqou>
btw, do you happen to know what if any kicad features are still stuck on legacy canvas?
<azonenberg>
in layout or schematic?
<rqou>
iirc somebody mentioned there was a "spread out initial overlapping parts" command that hadn't been ported because nobody cared enough
<rqou>
layout
<azonenberg>
the whole schematic tool is legacy canvas still, there's no GAL schematic tool
<azonenberg>
In GAL when you import components from the pcb
<azonenberg>
they're automatically spread now
<azonenberg>
there's no command to d oit
<azonenberg>
I work in 100% GAL now and cannot remember the last time i switched to legacy canvas
<rqou>
ah, so that particular thing's been fixed
<azonenberg>
OK i take that back
<azonenberg>
There is one issue that osmetimes causes me to switch to legacy then immediately back to GAL to reset the GAL canvas
<azonenberg>
when you change a few properties (global soldermask clearance is the main one)
<azonenberg>
it doesnt set the dirty flag right
<azonenberg>
So to make it display correctly you have to jump to legacy then immediately to GAL
<azonenberg>
that may be corrected in the nightlies, i'm running 2017-11-03
<azonenberg>
But there are no features that cause me to actually *work* in the legacy canvas
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<rqou>
i didn't have 0.3mg doses of melatonin easily available, but i wanted to unf*ck my sleep _now_
<rqou>
we'll see if i did it right :P
<awygle>
Are larger doses ineffective?
<rqou>
whitequark told me that larger doses may make you fall asleep but don't properly reset circadian cycles
<rqou>
because larger doses will oversaturate the receptors
<awygle>
That vibes with my experience actually, I tend to wake up when I take it
* awygle
starts considering how to divide his tablets into tenths
<rqou>
try what i did? :P
<awygle>
Not a vodka fan
<rqou>
oh, i just used it because it contains quite a bit of ethanol and my apartment likes to party a decent amount (or at least used to back when we were all students)
<rqou>
1/10th of what i did should be only 5ml
<awygle>
Or I'll just buy a smaller dose on Amazon for 5$
<rqou>
lol that works except the "i want it nao!" part :P
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<awygle>
Meh. It's almost the holidays, I can afford effed up sleep for two days
<rqou>
lol whatever works for you :P
<awygle>
I wonder if the time release ones actually help. That always seemed kinda sketchy for me
<rqou>
i mostly want it for circadian rhythm resets rather than use every day
<awygle>
Yeah. I use it to reduce my tendency to drift off of local time
<awygle>
120 pills lasted me 18 months, so whatever that works out to be
<rqou>
i find that, normally, "class" is a pretty good circadian rhythm regularizer
<rqou>
whereas "finals" "stress" and "burnout" are pretty good circadian rhythm disruptors
<rqou>
which is why i always end up f*cked up at the end of the semester
<awygle>
Starting in the new year I'll be able to start at 10 which my delayed sleep phase disorder likes much better than 8
<rqou>
i basically can't function getting up at 8
<awygle>
I currently get up at 630
<rqou>
yeah, i can never do that
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<azonenberg>
Woop
<azonenberg>
Done making components for my active probe
<azonenberg>
The footprint for these RF relays is actually really cool looking
<azonenberg>
They have corner pins for the coils
<azonenberg>
then one select input in the middle of one side
<azonenberg>
then three signal ports with grounds on either side
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<azonenberg>
lol
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<balrog>
that's a good name for an overall project :p
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<rqou>
whee, it turns out that when your sleep is super f*cked, you lose track of the days and forget you have a pending linode migration happening :P
<rqou>
best sysadmin 2017? :P
<rqou>
also f*ck linode for scheduling migrations in december
<rqou>
awygle: btw, this might be placebo but the ghetto diluted melatonin seems to have worked somewhat
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<cr1901_modern>
Since Xilinx has decided it doesn't want to send me a reset password link, can someone do me a favor and link me to the Vivado 17.4 download please?
<cr1901_modern>
(This request good for the next 5 minutes or so before I have to leave)
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<cr1901_modern>
(the webpack version of course)
<rqou>
damn, jenkins has security vulns all the f*cking time
<rqou>
also, i really need a staging server
<cr1901_modern>
Yea I'm not leaving home until I get this Xilinx BS sorted out
<rqou>
woo my mellanox card showed up on time
<rqou>
it's not a dell/hp pull! :P
<rqou>
hmm, mellanox cards have pretty clearly labeled testpoints
<awygle>
My work pc is a smoking ruin this morning
<rqou>
anybody want to jtag this card later? :P
<awygle>
So I can't send helpful links, sorry
<rqou>
awygle: literally or figuratively?
<awygle>
rqou: figuratively
<rqou>
ah
<awygle>
(for now)
<rqou>
is it running windows 10 and updating? :P
<awygle>
It's running "reset loop"
<rqou>
oh
<rqou>
unfortunately that probably means that you're already turning it off and on again :P
<awygle>
It's also unconscionably hot in here
<awygle>
Which is irrelevant but unpleasant
<rqou>
i wish it were hot here
<rqou>
instead it's freezing
<rqou>
(not actually freezing)
<awygle>
It's 28F outside and 98F inside
<awygle>
(the latter may be slight hyperbole)
<rqou>
our apartment (illegally) has no heat upstairs
<rqou>
but we know we're never going to get it fixed because the heater is some wwii-era relic or whatever and needs a complete replacement
<rqou>
also, it's Everest :P
<rqou>
awygle: i think i asked you this before, but when you were in berkeley you weren't with everest/raj, correct?
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<awygle>
rqou: I don't think so but it's possible. I never paid much attention
<rqou>
you never paid attention who the landlords were? :P
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<whitequark>
bleh
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<azonenberg>
awygle: Thoughts on the x-ray stuff?
<awygle>
azonenberg: "it's cool"
<awygle>
That's as far as I've gotten. Work.
<azonenberg>
Lol
<azonenberg>
yeah
<azonenberg>
Gonna take me time to wrap my head around the details
<azonenberg>
Also i need to get myself a devkit for that part
<awygle>
Yeah. A50 FGG484 . Know of any good ones?
<rqou>
whitequark: bleh what? hotplate stirrers?
<azonenberg>
So, FGG484 shouldnt matter
<azonenberg>
other than for the bond pads etc
<azonenberg>
i'll poke clifford to confirm but unitl they get to IO cells it shouldnt make a difference
<awygle>
Sure
<azonenberg>
As far as the 50T goes...
<whitequark>
rqou: yes
<rqou>
bleh to existing ones or bleh to the idea of doing a DIY one?
<azonenberg>
awygle: the Arty only comes with a 35 or 100
<azonenberg>
Basys3 is 35 only
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<rqou>
damn, time for me to be productive today
<azonenberg>
Nexys4DDR is a 100
<rqou>
i didn't get up nice and early for nothing :P
<azonenberg>
I dont see any obvious stuff with a 50
<azonenberg>
awygle: of course, the 35/15 are just rebranded 50s
<azonenberg>
So it should be possible to access any given reconfigurable region in those too
<azonenberg>
in fact, PR likely provides easy access to the entire 50T in a smaller device lol
<rqou>
whitequark: btw, might be placebo effect but cutting down the melatonin dose to 0.3mg seems to work better
<rqou>
thanks
<azonenberg>
In any case short term our goal is independent to the bitstream stuff
<azonenberg>
Bringing up the packer, then placement, has to happen no matter what the bitstream looks like
<azonenberg>
we have all the info we need without that
<awygle>
That's one of the things I'm interested to learn more about. If the "off" regions are always the same it's just SKU management. If they vary it's more likely to be binning
<awygle>
Also whether they physically burn a fuse or something
<rqou>
i was told the off regions are literally "if (occupied > threshold) return err;"
<azonenberg>
awygle: Yes
<azonenberg>
There is no single region locked out
<azonenberg>
The software caps your total utilization
<rqou>
as in, you can constraint your design to any coordinates you want as long as it's not exceeding the threshold
<awygle>
Wow. Fuck that lol
<azonenberg>
All you have to do is patch the IDCODE and CRC in the bitfile
<azonenberg>
This has been done, and works
<rqou>
unlike the ice40 which iirc the software caps to using only the left/top
<rqou>
(on the 4k)
<azonenberg>
rqou: wait ice40 has binned parts?
<rqou>
i don't think so
<azonenberg>
awygle: this is actually convenient because a "full" 15t or 35t is actually a mostly empty 50t
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<azonenberg>
so you can actually get to 100% utilization reliably
<awygle>
Sure
<rqou>
apparently people have tried putting 8k worth of logic into a "4k" part and it works fine
<azonenberg>
and you have plenty of routing resources
<awygle>
Just dickish
<azonenberg>
Yes i agree :p
<rqou>
i don't agree; it's a result of economics/capitalism
<azonenberg>
I actually was really hoping they had some kind of binning where they efused'd PIPS or something
<azonenberg>
and were able to turn N columns of CLBs into N-1 to do yield management
<azonenberg>
and sure, maybe fuse extra columns if they dont have enough bad dies to make a sufficient supply of low-end parts
<azonenberg>
but at least actually lock them out
<rqou>
you have to charge customers up to what they're _willing_ to pay to maximize <some economist's figure of merit of some kind>
<whitequark>
rqou: that's what everyone ends up telling me
<whitequark>
"might be placebo but 0.3mg seems to work better"
<whitequark>
honestly I don't care, it MIGHT as well be placebo if it still works
<awygle>
rqou: it can be both things
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<azonenberg>
rqou: meanwhile my response is, charge what it costs you plus what you need in profit to support ongoing R&D
<azonenberg>
if people are willing to pay more, and you charge less, that's more money for them to spend on something else
<awygle>
What offends me is primarily the asymmetry of information
<rqou>
^
<rqou>
i can agree with that
<awygle>
You can't have an agreement between consenting parties if they're not equally informed
<azonenberg>
awygle: in corporate america nobody is equally informed/empowered
<azonenberg>
The company who develops the tool has all the power
<azonenberg>
you can either use it or not
<awygle>
azonenberg: yes, I know lol
<azonenberg>
at their price, under their terms
<whitequark>
in communist USSR any electronics came with full schematics
<whitequark>
maybe corporate america should take a lesson
<azonenberg>
lol
<whitequark>
i'm serious
<qu1j0t3>
whitequark: absolutely.
<qu1j0t3>
whitequark: i support that 1000%
<qu1j0t3>
whitequark: right to repair
<whitequark>
there's 0 reason there shouldn't be a law mandating that any TV/whatever comes with the service manual *the company already has*
<azonenberg>
And full firmware source code as well
<azonenberg>
If you want to require code signing for *remote* firmware updates, that's fine
<rqou>
but what about "hurr durr we're some chinese crapware manufacturer we have no manuals or anything sane"
<azonenberg>
and in fact, should be mandatory
<jn>
GPL compliance would be nice for a start…
<whitequark>
rqou: then don't sell
<whitequark>
that will actually drive quality up significantly
<whitequark>
so I fail to see the downside
<azonenberg>
if customs seized devices at the border that didnt come with service manuals
<azonenberg>
i'd be all for it :p
<rqou>
but then china will say "but people still buy our stupid widgets"
<azonenberg>
rqou: anyway the user should be able to patch and reflash firmware
<azonenberg>
even with signing enabled
<azonenberg>
possibly with a hardware toggle or something
<whitequark>
signing key replacement yes
<whitequark>
it may even erase DRM keys if you MUST have DRM
<azonenberg>
exactly
<azonenberg>
I'm OK with it not letting me onto *your* network
<azonenberg>
if i dont abide by your rules
<jn>
i wouldn't want to require full firmware source code for the general market. there might be proprietary software in there, and the vendor might have a reason for that
<azonenberg>
But if i'm using it at home for my own purposes, i'm gonna do whatever the heck i want with it
<awygle>
But of course all of these things cost money and there's zero political will for them so...
<rqou>
afaik the only product that does anything even close to that is (was) chumby
<azonenberg>
jn: at a minimum they should ship with an SDK and drivers
<whitequark>
jn: maybe the vendors wishes can get fucked
<azonenberg>
even if not the full app code
<whitequark>
it's not their *right* to sell whatever crap they want to general public
<whitequark>
it's a privilege
<whitequark>
they must already pass review by e.g. FCC
<jn>
azonenberg: ok, that's kinda reasonable
<rqou>
but capitalism, free markets, customers still buy it, etc. etc.
<whitequark>
rqou: see my FCC example
<awygle>
Is it their right to keep the software they develop from their competitors?
<awygle>
There was discussion in another channel of an EOL firmware escrow system that was interesting
<rqou>
FCC doesn't seem to stop fleabay/aliexpress/etc.
<whitequark>
awygle: I'm looking at a bigger picture: is it morally right that we have 100 companies developing all the same shit in competition with each other?
<whitequark>
what an incredible waste of resources
<rqou>
"but my fidget spinner is better than theirs because it's pink" :P
<whitequark>
they should open it and share the development with anyone else who wants it
<jn>
i'm all for more GPL enforcement, though. vendors are free to use a non-copyleft OS to work around that ;)
<awygle>
whitequark: I don't disagree, but that's a broader "capitalism is bad" discussion
<whitequark>
well yes
<whitequark>
capitalism can sort of work (not in todays america, obviously) but why stop at "sort of works" ? :p
<rqou>
because leaders profit from "sort of works" obviously
<whitequark>
(rhetorical question)
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<awygle>
If we were going to end up here anyway I should have made my "no ethical consumption" joke in the landlord discussion earlier lol
<qu1j0t3>
I've never agreed more with whitequark. this feels weird
<whitequark>
awygle: you can eat the rich. that's a form of ethical consumption
<whitequark>
(I'm not sure when ##openfpga went #FULLCOMMUNISM but I find it entertaining)
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<qu1j0t3>
whitequark: just watch out for the counter-revolution...
<Ultrasauce>
pure ideology *sniff*
* cr1901_modern
helpfully thinks no economic system nor form of government works. 'cept maybe HK based on whitequark's testimony
<whitequark>
define "works"
<rqou>
HK has issues too
<whitequark>
it's a spectrum
<cr1901_modern>
Works == Doesn't eventually devolve into blatant inter/intra-class warfare
<whitequark>
on a long enough scale every living system dies
* whitequark
shrugs
<Ultrasauce>
we just need a system that isn't exploitable
<Ultrasauce>
benevolent ai dictator when??
<whitequark>
nevertheless, US has 40 million people living in extreme poverty and RU, well, doesn't
<cr1901_modern>
I wouldn't even go that far. Just one that's self correcting in the form of exploitation
<cr1901_modern>
Well that number is gonna get worse thanks to voting in a demagogue
<cr1901_modern>
Ahh, thanks
<rqou>
but but but the average is higher! (or something like that?)
<whitequark>
ok, actually, if you use the national poverty lines (and not PPP), then 12.8%pop of RU lives in poverty too
<rqou>
but seriously wtf 40 million?!
<whitequark>
but you know, one of these is the richest western country and the other is a remnant of USSR with barely any welfare spending
<Ultrasauce>
most of them aren't white so it's ok
<cr1901_modern>
^
<whitequark>
that's actually not true
<cr1901_modern>
Well, yea whitequark beat me to it
<whitequark>
Contrary to the stereotypical assumptions, 31% of poor children are White, 24% are Black, 36% are Hispanic, and 1% are indigenous. When looking at toddlers and infants, 42% of all Black children are poor, 32% of Hispanics, and 37% of Native American infants and toddlers are poor. The figure for Whites is 14%.
<cr1901_modern>
8 million more whites in poverty
<cr1901_modern>
according to UN report
<whitequark>
and yeah what cr1901_modern
<whitequark>
midwest is really fucked
<cr1901_modern>
But the stereotypes make it _perceptually_ okay b/c just world fallacy runs so deep
<azonenberg_work>
Sooo actually on topic
<azonenberg_work>
Looking at the symbiflow docs
<azonenberg_work>
It looks like the VBRK and VFRAME tiles are empty, no config bits?
<azonenberg_work>
Also unclear on what the "ECC" cells do... is there actual error correcting code stuff in the bitstream? I thought it was all CRCs
<azonenberg_work>
and that while they had ECC in the block RAM, the bitstream itself did not
<awygle>
Wouldn't be surprised to learn that it did. Nothing actually works on those tiny processes.
<azonenberg_work>
this has some cool insights about the relative speed of different lut inputs
<azonenberg_work>
tl;dr highest numbered inputs on xilinx parts are typically fastest
<rqou>
how about just hitting vpr with a big enough hammer just so we can use it and compare with it?
<azonenberg_work>
its actually faster to use a 6LUT than a 5LUT since that cuts one mux off the critical path, even if you do not need all six inputs
<azonenberg_work>
rqou: it looks like this is what they're doing
<azonenberg_work>
they mentioned in the docs they are porting icestorm to VPR
<azonenberg_work>
i.e. killing arachne long term
<rqou>
who is "they" other than Clifford?
<azonenberg_work>
Whoever is behind that github project? :p
<azonenberg_work>
This seems to suggest that they are planning on creating a VPR-based 7 series flow down the road
<rqou>
isn't it Clifford?
<azonenberg_work>
I assume its not *just* him
<azonenberg_work>
i know i see a lot of docs referencing mithro
<azonenberg_work>
Anyway a VPR-based flow is awesome, but doesnt go far enough
<awygle>
rqou: on your advice I am going to spend 2-3 days next week trying to get T-VPACK running (for ice40s)
<azonenberg_work>
to properly scale
<rqou>
yes, i know that
<awygle>
Based on that experience I may or may not implement the scalable PAR as a VPR-compatible library
<azonenberg_work>
awygle: See that paper i linked
<awygle>
Currently leaning no
<azonenberg_work>
it discusses some considerations for timing driven packing
<awygle>
azonenberg_work: Soon (TM)
<awygle>
It's in my papers to read folder but I have work to do at work today :-P
<azonenberg_work>
Conjecture: We may want to have iterative placement
<azonenberg_work>
that re-packs after getting initial estimates of critical paths from a first round placement
<azonenberg_work>
"Because roughly 50% of the path delay in FPGAs is interconnect delay, littleis known regarding path criticality at the preplacement stage. Therefore, wechoose to do dual-output LUT packing during placement, as we have access tobetter estimates of connection delay."
<rqou>
i love cpld timing
<rqou>
it's solely based on number of logic levels
<rqou>
(at least for a first-order timing)
<azonenberg_work>
This paper is older and talks about virtex5 which doesnt have some of the features of 7 series but it looks like a good intro to the subtleties of packing
<azonenberg_work>
rqou: lol
<azonenberg_work>
First order, yes
<azonenberg_work>
As somebody who has actually characterized greenpak routing fabric
<azonenberg_work>
it varies by 10% or more path to path
<azonenberg_work>
this shows die-to-die and route-to-route spread across five slg46620s, before calibrating out IOB delay (one IOB -> different routes -> one IOB)
<azonenberg_work>
So theres a constant offset for IO delays
<azonenberg_work>
4) layout-aware optimization (replicate/collapse redundant drivers for high fanout nets, etc) plus re-packing
<azonenberg_work>
5) go to step 2 for next-round placement
<azonenberg_work>
awygle: IOW, rather than just optimizing after a round of placement as we initially discussed
<azonenberg_work>
I want to re-pack critical paths as well
<azonenberg_work>
And possibly re-pack the least critical paths too
<azonenberg_work>
rationale: if a path is NOT timing critical, we can do more aggressive area optimization on it
<azonenberg_work>
Which will leave more space available for timing optimization on the timing-critical paths
<azonenberg_work>
So basically the slowest paths get optimized for speed, the fastest get optimized for area
<azonenberg_work>
in an effort to get max speed without wasting space
<azonenberg_work>
Moving on, once we get to routing I want the option of fine tuning placement based on routing information as well
<azonenberg_work>
Once placement is done, we can do a first round of routing
<azonenberg_work>
then update the timing model based on this, and possibly rerun placement and optimization to reflect the more accurate timing information
<azonenberg_work>
repeat a few times, then continue routing to get a final design
<Ultrasauce>
that paper is on scihub
<awygle>
Routing halfway through placement to update timing estimates is pretty common as well
<rqou>
things that suck include: half-height pcie
<awygle>
rqou: why?
<rqou>
because i don't have a half-height bracket :P
<rqou>
i'm taking some crappy medium-form-factor prebuilt pc to ccc because my dad bought it for really cheap
<rqou>
but the mellanox 10g card i got off ebay only has a full-height bracket
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<rqou>
hmm actually
<rqou>
oem prebuilds seem to have gotten better at the upgradability/repairability
<azonenberg>
awygle: Yeah that could work too
<azonenberg>
Basically, i dont want to have a pack -> place -> route linear flow
<azonenberg>
i want to be going back and forth
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<rqou>
so um... how reliable do you expect a pcie card without a bracket to be :P
<azonenberg>
rqou: not very
<azonenberg>
(from experience)
<azonenberg>
you get intermittent unexpectedh otswaps
<azonenberg>
and/or shorts
<azonenberg>
that lead to kernel panics or hard lockups of the host if any force is exerted on the cable whatsoever
<rqou>
hmm
<rqou>
how about if i add some tape? :P
<rqou>
i've managed to get reliable mini-pcie without screws and with only tape :P
<rqou>
ah f*ck it i'll deal with this later because i can't find my vga cable :P
<rqou>
welcome to the highly-organized robert ou labs :P
<digshadow>
rqou: that lab accidents post is likely the most popular thing I ever did, I IIRC over 50k views
<digshadow>
azonenberg: I'm having trouble placing MUXF8 on vivado 2017.3, but it works fine on 2017.2...not sure if by chance you have any thoughts on that (although I guess you don't use vivado much)
<azonenberg>
digshadow: I am still mostly an ISE guy, and yeah i dont use vivado a ton
<azonenberg>
I switched to 3 from 2017.2 a while bac kbecause it fixed another bug i had
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<rqou>
hey, anybody in the bay want to help me organize robert ou labs? :P
<rqou>
you get to keep all the crap i don't want :P :P
<rqou>
*warning: might not be very much crap i don't want :P :P :P
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<digshadow>
rqou: does it require hazmat gear
<digshadow>
I have next week off and might want to visit andrew gardner, who will be in east bay for a bit
<digshadow>
azonenberg: regarding your specific question on docs, there is an additional docs page that hasn't been released yet. hopefully it will be soon
<azonenberg>
Makes sense
<rqou>
why the secrecy?
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<azonenberg>
rqou: i'm actually surprised they released so soon
<azonenberg>
i thought they'd wait longer
<rqou>
wait did you know that dig was working on this?
<rqou>
why am i never invited? :P
<azonenberg>
Xilinx is not known to be friendly to open source :p
<azonenberg>
I'm not at liberty to disclose how much i knew when, or still know
<rqou>
wtf
<azonenberg>
Suffice it to say, i did at one point and may still have some insider info
<rqou>
wtf again
<azonenberg>
rqou: I knew the project was going on for months, actually
<azonenberg>
clifford tweeted about it ages ago
<rqou>
yeah, i remember that
<azonenberg>
the existence of it was public if you looked in the right spot
<rqou>
i didn't realize it'd make progress so quickly
<azonenberg>
I was actually hoping they'd hold off on a release until they had a full chip 100% RE'd
<azonenberg>
and an icestorm-level toolchain (functional but not good QoR necessarily)
<azonenberg>
ready to go
<azonenberg>
Because thats a genie you cant put back in the bottle
<rqou>
damn i hate being stuck with schoolwork
<azonenberg>
In any case i kinda am keeping my distance from that project
<azonenberg>
And focusing on tooling
<azonenberg>
Since that kinda seems to have become my niche in this realm
<rqou>
except for how all your tooling is vaporware? :P
<azonenberg>
um, the greenpak tools are totally usable
<rqou>
for the one part it supports :P
<rqou>
what exactly is holding up support for "gp5" again?
<azonenberg>
I support three SKUs but only two fairly well
<azonenberg>
honestly? mostly time
<azonenberg>
Which is in short supply with this impending move
<azonenberg>
This is why i am trying to expand and get more people involved in the effort
<azonenberg>
So i dont have to do it all myself
<azonenberg>
Because i know i can't
<rqou>
<troll> just make your $WIFE handle the move </troll>
<azonenberg>
lolol
<rqou>
this is called not-feminism :P :P
<azonenberg>
yeah i wish it was that simple :p
<azonenberg>
in all seriousness as soon as i can teach her to do something i'll have her do it
<azonenberg>
but it'll have to be one task at a time
<azonenberg>
she has no real background in this kind of stuff
<azonenberg>
and some stuff, like hanging sheetrock, really needs at least 2 people
<rqou>
<troll> your $WIFE and an exploited mexican </troll>
<rqou>
am i doing this right? :P
<azonenberg>
Even exploited mexicans want to get paid
<rqou>
you're obviously not doing the capitalism hard enough :P
<rqou>
azonenberg: what _technical_ problem is blocking gp5 support?
<rqou>
also, you might need some new labeling since silego doesn't seem to use the gp4/gp5 labels anymore
<azonenberg>
rqou: oh?
<azonenberg>
And, the only real technical issue is that my par doesnt have super great handling of resource sharing
<azonenberg>
when you have two blocks that are different types sharing one site