GenTooMan has joined ##openfpga
<awygle> These new altera parts would do a nice 4x PCIe 2.0 dual 10G NIC if I'm doing my math right. Although that's not quite enough PCIe to saturate both links.
<azonenberg> shiny
lexano has joined ##openfpga
<azonenberg> but i really dont want to try writing a kernel driver for a nic
<awygle> I wonder how difficult it would be to clone an interface
<awygle> Reuse an existing driver known to be high quality
<azonenberg> So pretend to be some intel nic or something?
<azonenberg> actually, i was proposing doign exactly that as a research project that i never actually did
<azonenberg> The working codename was IRATEFISH
<azonenberg> as in IRATEMONK + SuperFish
<awygle> Yeah. Or maybe don't spoof it entirely but just present the same interface
<azonenberg> It was to be a PCIe NIC that looked like a bog-standard 1G LAN interface both physically and logically
<awygle> Different PCIe IDs but same registers etc
<azonenberg> same PCIe ID etc
<azonenberg> But, in between packets
<awygle> Your idea is more evil :-P
<azonenberg> it would become a DMA master and read your RAM looking for expanded AES keys
<azonenberg> If found, it would then add to a list of known session keys in memory
<awygle> Ooo even eviler than expected
<azonenberg> As it forwarded packets, it would look for TLS traffic
<azonenberg> over port 443
<azonenberg> If found, it would decrypt, insert ads into the HTML, then re-encrypt and re-MAC
Bike has joined ##openfpga
<awygle> Very nice
<azonenberg> It was supposed to be a demo of what adware written by an ex-NSA development team would look like
<azonenberg> ads in your HTTPS traffic with valid signatures and certs
<azonenberg> because the session is established to the actual public key of the real server
<azonenberg> and your traffic is encrypted and MAC'd with the actual session key negotiated with the real server
<azonenberg> So your TLS stack will see absolutely nothing wrong with the traffic
<azonenberg> you wont see it in a traceroute or anything
<awygle> Very expensive ad delivery though :-P
<Bike> ohh, i picked a scary time to log on :(
<azonenberg> Bike: we're discussing a researhc project i never actually implemented
<awygle> .... Bike has seen too much.
<azonenberg> imagine if Superfish hired an ex-NSA development team
<awygle> Dispatch the drones
<Bike> a research project you claim to have never implemented
<azonenberg> PCIe NIC that acts as a DMA master and steals TLS session keys out of your RAM
<azonenberg> then MITMs your traffic using the actual session key
<awygle> That _would_ explain how you managed to afford a house in this market....
<azonenberg> decrypt, inject ads, re-encrypt, send to the host OS IP stack
<azonenberg> awygle: :P
<azonenberg> it would actually be a cool project to do one day
<azonenberg> Test out my TCP offload engine
<azonenberg> get experience writing PCIe
<azonenberg> i dont think it would be that challenging from an engineering perspective
<azonenberg> technically, it's totally feasible
<azonenberg> Realistically of course this isn't something you would use for ad delivery
<azonenberg> It'd be a surveillance implant
<azonenberg> But i figured ad injection would be a fun spin on it
<awygle> If I were going to do NICs I'd do a 2x10G on a PCIe 2x4 using the hard IP, then upgrade to PCIe 3x4 in gateware
<awygle> Then do a 1x40g on a PCIe 3x8
<awygle> Then probably jump to the switch from there
<azonenberg> See, i'm going to start with a switch because it lets me not do PCIe
<awygle> Very sensible of you lol
<azonenberg> But i have a bunch of higher priority projects to do first
<azonenberg> The switch has been "a year out" for the last 2-3 years lol
<azonenberg> i'll get to it one day i promise...
<azonenberg> starshipraider and the active diff probe are the shorter term priorities
<awygle> :-P
<awygle> Do you still do all your boards as eurocard?
<azonenberg> yes and no
<rqou> er azonenberg are you getting my PMs or is OTR screwing up and eating them?
<azonenberg> starshipraider is going to be standalone since its meant as a desktop tool
<azonenberg> rqou: old session key, try again
<azonenberg> awygle: the switch obviously will be standalone too
<azonenberg> Once i have finished *both* of them
<azonenberg> The next-gen FPGA cluster can get moving
<awygle> azonenberg: not 1U?
<azonenberg> The switch card will basically be my switch
<azonenberg> Standalone meaning 1U rather than a 3U x 160 mm blade
<awygle> Ah k
<azonenberg> anyway, then the management cluster will basically be a starshipraider with a hard-wired io module
<rqou> azonenberg: how about now?
<azonenberg> instead of pluggable one
<azonenberg> and base-X instead of base-T ethernet
<azonenberg> the management card*
<azonenberg> then the compute cards are pretty straightforward
<azonenberg> the backplane PCB is already designed but will probably get improved a bit
<azonenberg> So the full MARBLEWALRUS won't happen until both the switch and starshipraider are out
<awygle> lmao these names
<azonenberg> starshipraider is actually not a random name
<azonenberg> it's "bus pirate" -> future
<azonenberg> Pretty much all of my other project names are randomly generated
<azonenberg> while(name doesn't sound good) name = {random word, random word}
<azonenberg> @nsanamegenerator is my current source, i think that's where tragiclaser came from
Dolu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<rqou> azonenberg: can you link me the lint-free swabs that you use? the ones i ended up with are terrible
<rqou> awygle: apparently azonenberg doesn't like the name that i wanted to use for my future bus pirate project: "bus armada"
<rqou> "an attempt to take over the bus pirate that won't succeed and will just end up being an expensive failure" :P
<azonenberg> rqou: puritan #3130
<rqou> not available on amazon :(
<rqou> ok, i need $10 more stuff to buy an add-on item, what do you think i should buy :P
<azonenberg> $144.99 per case of a thousand swabs
<azonenberg> or $15.79 per bag of 100
<awygle> Bus armada is pretty bad. You'd have to be officially sanctioned and also make tons of them.
<rqou> yeah, but i need to order some crap from amazon right now :P
<azonenberg> most other places want $160+ per case
<azonenberg> So these folks are usaully the best deal
<rqou> so right now amazon's recommender is being useless, someone in this channel please recommend me a ~$10-$20 thing that i would probably find useful :P :P
<UmbralRaptor> Several packages of thin mint cookies?
<azonenberg> lool
<rqou> that's the right idea, now i just need $3 more
<rqou> thanks "add-on items"
<awygle> rqou: people like you are why add on items get to exist :-P
<rqou> you mean amazon loses money if people like me repeatedly realize "oh, i need a $5 widget, let's order it with free 2 day shipping"? :P
<awygle> rqou: buy 40 lbs of cat litter and ship it to me
<rqou> lol
<azonenberg> lool
<azonenberg> rqou: 55 gallon drum of lube?
<azonenberg> See how well it works instead of vacuum grease
<azonenberg> the silicone stuff might actually be OK as pump oil too
<rqou> wow, you and your $WIFE must get a lot of action if you need that much :P
<azonenberg> naw, we're not that crazy
<azonenberg> we get the 35 gallon drums
<rqou> or is your UHV system your $WIFE? :P
<UmbralRaptor> New way to spot robots: they order industrial lube as personal lube.
<azonenberg> in all seriousness, silicone sex lube could work as a diffusion pump fluid depending on the polymer
<rqou> but you can also just get vacuum oil
<azonenberg> Lol
<azonenberg> But then you dont get to weird people out by buying a 5-gallon bucket of K-Y
<awygle> I am wondering if there will be a right wing backlash to all the hippies buying coconut oil as sex lube, making the right buy industrial lube for the purpose
<awygle> (that was a pretty weak instantiation of that joke but I feel the idea was funny)
<azonenberg> no, they're just gonna go roll coal around the whole foods parking lot
<rqou> ah f*ck it i'll just order some more snacks so that my order will be large enough
<awygle> rqou: and with enough snacks, you will be large enough as well
<azonenberg> awygle: Reminds me of something i came up with a while ago
<azonenberg> If you put on weight / grow up, and no longer fit in something
<azonenberg> you outgrew it
<azonenberg> But what if you lose weight, and no longer fit in something you got when you were fat
<azonenberg> Would you describe those as "ingrown clothes"?
<awygle> That's a horrifying mental image
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> awygle: on a more serious note
<azonenberg> What's your availability this evening or tomorrow for a parallel PAR brainstorming session?
<rqou> wtf this soon?
<rqou> at least give me time to teleport myself up to seattle :P
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> i want to do something more in depth in the new year
<awygle> azonenberg: tomorrow and later is basically out
<awygle> Tonight is feasible I suppose
<azonenberg> Well if you dont mind hopping on the ferry, i can grab you from the dock / bring you back
<rqou> well, i guess i have to join remotely/not at all in that case
<azonenberg> rqou: this was supposed to be parallel PAR specifically
<azonenberg> so more his research area than yours
<azonenberg> i wanted to have a more general get-together later
<rqou> ah ok
<awygle> You're MIA through like mid January right?
<rqou> too bad my friend here at berkeley flaked out due to Life(TM)
<azonenberg> awygle: yes
<azonenberg> the 4th
<azonenberg> then SAR training all weekend so not available really until the following monday
<rqou> can you push it to mid-January at least? i'm going to be super busy at the beginning
<awygle> Mk let's do tonight then. How do I do the ferry without bringing my car along?
<azonenberg> awygle: Get to the ferry terminal, then walk into the terminal and buy a ticket / swipe your ORCA (assuming you have either e-purse or a ferry pass on it)
<azonenberg> Make sure you get on the right boat, bainbridge normally boards from the right side of the terminal as you face the water
<azonenberg> the left hand gate puts you in the ghetto of bremerton :p
<azonenberg> Actually getting to the dock isn't my problem :P
<azonenberg> Once you're on the boat text me (see PM for number) and I'll grab you from the terminal on the island
<azonenberg> Bring your laptop and charger, i dont think you'll need much else since this is really just a planning/research meetup
soylentyellow has joined ##openfpga
m_w has quit [Quit: leaving]
m_w has joined ##openfpga
<rqou> hey, does anybody here know about sam zeloof KD2ENL? apparently he does high vacuum stuff and also has a chip fab in his garage?
<azonenberg> i know the name
<azonenberg> but not a ton about him
<azonenberg> is he the kid that bought up some used semi fab gear and is working with "real" secondhand stuff?
<azonenberg> rather than homebrewing everything?
<rqou> idk
<rqou> he does have a used SEM
<rqou> and a high vacuum chamber that looks like it's custom?
<awygle> I always forget Seattle has a giant London-style ferris wheel that lights up
<Zorix> i have been on the london eye
<awygle> Was it secretly an alien transmitter to control all plastic in the city?
<awygle> (I have never been to London but I've seen a lot of doctor who)
<Zorix> that thing is like a giant magnifying glass
<Zorix> it could be nice outside but it channels the heat from the sun
<Zorix> its pretty uncomfortable actually
<Zorix> but a neat view
<Zorix> i was in london earlier this year
<awygle> Sounds like the stratosphere roller coaster in vegas
<Zorix> ah
gnufan has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<Zorix> havent been there yet
<awygle> It's worth doing once
gnufan has joined ##openfpga
gnufan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
gnufan has joined ##openfpga
GenTooMan has quit [Quit: Leaving]
digshadow has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<awygle> whelp i downloaded that horizon eda software ( jn ) and whatever they're doing graphics-wise is aggressively broken on my laptop lol
<jn> hmm
<jn> disclaimer: i didn't test it ;)
<awygle> I may investigate further this weekend, or some other time that I am not on a boat.
<awygle> Has anybody tried these st-mram DRAM replacements? They look p.cool
<cyrozap> Zorix: I guess you could say it...
* cyrozap puts on sunglasses
<cyrozap> _English Channels_ the heat from the sun.
<balrog> awygle: are they using newish opengl features?
<qu1j0t3> cyrozap: isn't it still the Thames at that point
rk[ghost] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
digshadow has joined ##openfpga
Bike has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
soylentyellow has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
pie_ has joined ##openfpga
nrossi has joined ##openfpga
nrossi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
pie_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
m_w has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
m_w has joined ##openfpga
Dolu has joined ##openfpga
wpwrak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
wpwrak has joined ##openfpga
pie_ has joined ##openfpga
knielsen has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
knielsen has joined ##openfpga
eduardo__ has joined ##openfpga
eduardo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
nrossi has joined ##openfpga
pie_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<openfpga-github> [openfpga] rqou pushed 5 new commits to master: https://git.io/vbX4N
<openfpga-github> openfpga/master 26d0b0e Robert Ou: xc2par: Fix retrieving LOC from netlist
<openfpga-github> openfpga/master aea1eac Robert Ou: xc2par: Remove some unnecessary mut's
<openfpga-github> openfpga/master 1556f30 Robert Ou: xc2par: Check that LOC constraints aren't in different FBs
knielsen has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
knielsen has joined ##openfpga
pie_ has joined ##openfpga
knielsen has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
knielsen has joined ##openfpga
knielsen has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
knielsen has joined ##openfpga
m_t has joined ##openfpga
knielsen has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
knielsen has joined ##openfpga
pie_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
pie_ has joined ##openfpga
knielsen has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
knielsen has joined ##openfpga
pie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
pie_ has joined ##openfpga
Zorix has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Zorix has joined ##openfpga
Dolu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
knielsen has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<pointfree> azonenberg's talk: "Hardwear.io 2017: Reverse Engineering Of Programmable Logic Bitstreams by Andrew Zonenberg" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPAvDtXuDYc
<jn> is this a conference about wearable FPGAs?
knielsen has joined ##openfpga
Dolu has joined ##openfpga
m_w has quit [Quit: leaving]
knielsen has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
digshadow has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
knielsen has joined ##openfpga
nrossi has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
digshadow has joined ##openfpga
wpwrak has quit [Quit: Leaving]
m_w has joined ##openfpga
pie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
wpwrak has joined ##openfpga
wpwrak has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
pie_ has joined ##openfpga
wpwrak has joined ##openfpga
wpwrak has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
wpwrak has joined ##openfpga
<pie_> jn, finally made some progress on my little javascript thing https://pastebin.com/raw/y5Hqd4yi
<azonenberg> jn: no, it's just a con about hardware sec in general
<azonenberg> not sure why they spelled it like that
<jn> pie_: javascript blinkenlights? i forgot what this project is about
<jn> azonenberg: ah, makes sense
<pie_> jn, cross version variable name recovert
<pie_> *recovery
<pie_> if i can add static scope analysis i think i can make it automated
soylentyellow has joined ##openfpga
soylentyellow has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ZipCPU has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
wpwrak has quit [Quit: Leaving]
wpwrak has joined ##openfpga
wpwrak has quit [Client Quit]
wpwrak has joined ##openfpga
ZipCPU has joined ##openfpga
soylentyellow has joined ##openfpga
ilbelkyr has left ##openfpga [##openfpga]
m_t has quit [Quit: Leaving]
GenTooMan has joined ##openfpga
<cr1901_modern> What's a good tool for placing BGA components (vacuum pick up or similar)?
<azonenberg> cr1901_modern: i have one but am not a huge fan
<azonenberg> honestly i mostly just use tweezers
<cr1901_modern> azonenberg: Well I have plenty of those
<awygle> cr1901_modern: I have one of those hand suction things, it is terrible
<cr1901_modern> Alright, cool thanks
<awygle> Suction from a vacuum pump with a foot pedal release is great but infrastructurally intensive
<azonenberg> yeah i want to get that
<azonenberg> that may be on my list of upgrades for the new lab
<awygle> I use my fingers for big BGAs
<awygle> (after being super paranoid about esd)
ZipCPU|Laptop has joined ##openfpga
<awygle> azonenberg: do you do paste on your BGA pads or just flux?
<azonenberg> both work, but if i have a stencil to paste the rest of the board (as i pretty much always do now)
<azonenberg> then i paste the bga too
<azonenberg> saves a process step
<azonenberg> in the unlikely event i were to hand solder everything but the bga i'd smear flux
m_w has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
wpwrak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
wpwrak has joined ##openfpga
<rqou> every time i need to dist-upgrade my system i contemplate a switch to Arch
<rqou> should i switch to the weeaboo distro?
<awygle> "delete system32"
<azonenberg> rqou: is that "waifu linux"?
<rqou> i thought that's for gentoo?
<rqou> is that a thing?
<azonenberg> i bet there's actually a distro called that, somewhere
<azonenberg> "tux is my waifu"
m_w has joined ##openfpga
<rqou> waifu linux should just be arch with a different default wallpaper featuring one of Reimu/Haruhi/Asuka/Lain (99.9% of the effort of making the distro will be picking which one :P )
<azonenberg> rqou: btw me and awygle had a productive get-together last night, we're gonna start by making the glue to feed a netlist in yosys-json format to the VPR packer then output a packed netlist in yosys json format
<rqou> didn't someone do that already?
wpwrak has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<azonenberg> not that i know of, using yosys json?
<azonenberg> anyway then the placer itself will output a placed netlist in yosys json format as well, with loc constraints on each entity
<rqou> oh, maybe it was using blif/edif
<azonenberg> Which can then be fed to vivado for routing until we have our own router
<azonenberg> yes the vpr packer uses blif natively
<azonenberg> so basically it'd just be some bridge code
<azonenberg> Since our eventual tool will do parallel packing with yosys json as input
<azonenberg> and i want to use yosys json as the interchange format for all netlists
<rqou> brb going to go and obtain "meal index 0" (yes, post-semester burnout means that my sleep schedule becomes totally borked again)
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> awygle: Sooo based on our discussions last night
<azonenberg> Do we want to target MPI as the parallelism model for the placer?
ZipCPU|Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
wpwrak has joined ##openfpga
<azonenberg> I'm thinking OpenMPI since it seems to be pretty widely used and supported
<azonenberg> Not sure how different it is from other implementations like MPICH etc