#bitcoin-wizards on 2015-08-07 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-06-27 08:24 wumpus changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja

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19:27 <Taek> psztorc: I think I found a problem related to Truthcoin

19:27 <Taek> questions can be varying degrees of vague or 'invalid'

19:28 <Taek> even if the standard practice is to avoid vague questions

19:29 <Taek> an attacker could theoretically create questions that are clear enough that most/many/some people would consider them legitimate

19:29 <Taek> but vague enough taht some/many/most would consider them too vague

19:30 <Taek> "Donald trum will become the 40th right-handed president"

19:30 <Taek> as an example question that might be invalid

19:31 <Taek> it's pretty easy to play around with the validity of that question, an attack can try multiple things until they learn the sweet spot where people start dividing over whether the question is valid or not

19:31 <Taek> sorry about all the typos

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19:43 <tromp_> replace right-handed by faithful for increased vagueness:)

19:48 <andytoshi> Taek: my understanding is that the damage caused by confusing questions would be localized to people who had put money on that question

19:48 <andytoshi> so if you don't want to lose money, you should simply avoid nonsensical votes

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20:11 <Taek> andytoshi: I'm not 100% clear on how truthcoin works, but I think that the lie-detector part starts to break down if voters vote inconsistently across too many questions

20:12 <Taek> an attack would be to create 100s or 1000s of questions designed to provoke inconsistent answers

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20:30 <go1111111> Taek: wouldn't the voters themselves also be suffering from voting on borderline invalid questions? they'd risk being labeled as less honest overall. you dont have to vote on a question you don't want to vote on, right?

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20:49 <Taek> go1111111: psztorc would have to answer, but if voters are allowed to choose to abstain from questions, that's a completely separate attack vector

20:50 <Taek> An attacker can make questions that they know most voters will refuse to vote on, but perhaps a few will

20:50 <Taek> Then performing a 51% attack (or whatever threshold) on that particular question is a lot easier

20:51 <Taek> and even if you can't profit very much (because it's an unpopular market or whatever), you can steal reputation from the voters who joined the question

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21:22 <go1111111> yeah, curious to hear Paul's reply. that particular type of failure doesn't seem that bad to me bc as you say, profit opportunities are low, and just a small # of people are slightly negatively affected. moreover if these people were smarter they could have avoided harm

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22:45 <gmaxwell> tromp_: Any thoughts about how the intel/micro "3d xpoint" stuff may your proof of work scheme? (I've heard some conflicting claims about its capabilities, it might be too early to say...)

22:45 <gmaxwell> er. micron*

22:46 <nsh> accidentally a verb, too?

22:46 <nsh> stuff may [break?] your proof or work scheme?

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22:48 <gmaxwell> impact.

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22:50 <andytoshi> Taek: i don't get what the attack is here .. if you make shitty questions where the vote fails, what harm have you done? people just won't participate because the outcome is basically a gamble

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23:24 Guest13509 is now known as pigeons

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23:25 <pigeons> lol "Ethereum deposits are delayed 24 hrs from 2015-08-07 03:50 UTC per dev request. The developers may rollback the chain up to 24 hours in case of an issue. As a result, the developers asked all exchanges to wait 5760 confirms (24 hours) to credit ETH deposits in case the chain is rolled back."

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23:26 * nsh blinks

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23:39 <phantomcircuit> pigeons, that is beautiful

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23:48 <gmaxwell> pigeons: well; it just makes it unattractive for anyone to bother revealing vulnerabilities or attacking, since any attacks will just be undone, nothing to see here.

23:49 <fluffypony> yeah

23:49 <fluffypony> social contract is now as worthless as Vericoin's

23:50 <fluffypony> (the crowd that rolled back their PoS blockchain after the Mintpal heist)

23:50 <gmaxwell> did they actually do that, or did the theif return the funds after the threat of it? (I thought there was on where the theif returned most of the funds to prevent it)

23:53 <pigeons> i'm not going to try too hard to find a reliable source but https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/vericoin-developer-speaks-ccn-mintpal-hardfork/

23:53 <dEBRUYNE> gmaxwell: I think you are talking about NXT and the BTER heist

23:53 <gmaxwell> dEBRUYNE: thanks.

23:54 <fluffypony> https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/vericoin-developer-believe-nxt-chain-rolled-back/

23:54 <fluffypony> confirmed in that article

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23:55 <fluffypony> "It was a very tough decision for us, and we ultimately decided to act quickly and rollback due to the insecurity presented with one person owning such a large quantity of coin."

23:55 <fluffypony> lol PoS

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