wumpus changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<andytoshi>
just landed in vancouver tonight, in case any -wizards happen to be around here. i'm here all week
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<rusty>
andytoshi: no, but will be in Montreal in 3 weeks...
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<andytoshi>
i will in fact be there (i said otherwise recently but plans have chonged)
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<rusty>
andytoshi: excellent!
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<stonecoldpat>
anyone attending the virtual currency workshop in london next week ?
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<morcos>
everyone thats attending scalingbitcoin.org I think it would be helpful if you helped spread the word. we don't have an official attendee list... but if you tweet it or something, we could link to that from the front page. I think it would be helpful to get the word out.. The biggest draw is going to be who the rest of the participants are
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<azariah>
fluffypony: the Go client implemented an edge case around contract suicides wrong in the consensus protocol
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<MRL-Relay>
[tacotime] luckily that's the client almost everyone is using
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<MRL-Relay>
[tacotime] it's also the client that basically had get_nonce() uint256 { return 4 } in it's master
<MRL-Relay>
[tacotime] for ecdsa
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<MRL-Relay>
[tacotime] i guess they just hardcode in the bad fork and move on, like a reverse checkpoint
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<gmaxwell>
" Increase waiting time for eventual block confirmation to 12 hours" I thought they had already recommended 24 hours waiting?
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<MRL-Relay>
[tacotime] gmaxwell: they halved each subsequent 24 hours that went by or something iirc. or maybe it was 72. anyway, the final recommendation was 60 minutes
<MRL-Relay>
[tacotime] with 3x implementations this was bound to happen... and now some people are going to maybe lose their money i guess
<jcorgan>
that works; i tried it earlier and got a dead link
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<waxwing>
bitcoin should be advertised as the fastest squoggle time of any cryptocurrency. 1 sguoggle every millisecond! (there are on average 10,000 squoggles required for confirmation, though)
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<runeks>
If we could write a pure "Bitcoin consensus" function which would return True if a block is valid and False if a block is invalid, would that function depend on any other arguments than 1. the current UTXO set and 2. the block to be verified?
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<kanzure>
so it is only about block validity, and not about consensus?
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<bramc>
fluffypony, unfortunately I'm not surprised
<fluffypony>
runeks: you would require the full blockchain
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<fluffypony>
runeks: several validity decisions (eg. whether a particular feature is active or not) requires parsing of a set of blocks leading up to the one you're verifying in order to ascertain whether X% of miners are on a particular version
<fluffypony>
so no way around it
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<bramc>
In general trying to optimize out downloading the blockchain isn't worth it
<bramc>
Making it so only the utxo set has to be kept in memory is a good idea though.
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<runeks>
fluffypony: thanks for that info. I wasn't aware of that. So the pure function would need an additional "chainState" argument, that specifies the relevant information for calculating the consensus rules in effect for the specified block (eg. the block/tx version info for the past 1000 blocks, or whatever info is needed to determine which consensus rule set
<runeks>
is active).
<fluffypony>
runeks: something like that, Jorge Timón is a good person to talk to about this
<gwillen>
jtimon: ^
<jtimon>
runeks I believe #5946 contains the longest branch I ever had on libconsensus, still VerifyBlock wasn't complete not ready for a C API
<jtimon>
#5995 doesn't go that far but proposes a dumb C API for VerifyHeader
<runeks>
fluffypony: As far as I can see, both BIP62 and 34 use block version info from the past 1000 blocks to determine consensus rules. So for that a list of the block versions for the past 1000 blocks would be sufficient. But there may be BIPs that I'm not aware of that introduce more inter-block dependencies.
<runeks>
jtimon: I will check that out
<jtimon>
of course that currently needs a big rebase
<runeks>
Right. Hmm. Needing all block headers to verify a single block is somewhat unfortunate, now that I think of it. Needing the UTXO set is unavoidable, but needing the 30 MB constant that is all block headers isn't.
<runeks>
jtimon: I've already given up trying to modify Bitcoin Core beforehand. I think we need to start over.
<jtimon>
I actually don't like the concrete CBlockIndexBase and GetPrevIndex() there but you get the idea
<jtimon>
mhmm, not sure I undesrtand
<runeks>
Are there any other BIPs than 62 and 34 which modify consensus rules based on previous block versions?
<runeks>
jtimon: I'm basically just doing this to really understand what is needed to cleanly separate out the consensus function from the rest of the code.
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<jtimon>
runeks: any uncontroversial soft/hardfork (ie bip65, bip68, all blocksize hardfork proposals but bip101, bip99...)
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<jtimon>
although eventually that can be replaced with a simple height check (see #5966 )
<jtimon>
runeks I don't know what you are doing and I still don't know what you mean by "starting from scratch"
<runeks>
Hmm. I guess a proper implementation would need some sort of BIP specification format, where each BIP is described programmatically: what is required for the BIP to come into effect and what are its changes to the consensus rules.
<runeks>
jtimon: I'm thinking about how to create a Bitcoin implementation with a shorter distance between code and specification. I think Haskell is a good choice for that.