wumpus changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<rusty>
maaku: re: your reply, are you referring to my aside, or my IsStandard() point?
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<Adlai>
chris13243: "Satoshi style SPV essentially works by having the wallet only download block headers" not quite
<Adlai>
since he never implemented SPV mode, we can't quite know what "Satoshi style SPV" really means
<Adlai>
but my guess is still intended you to download every block (past the point where you begin transacting) in full, but only retain the relevant parts
<Adlai>
so you're headers-only until you start publishing addresses, and then you download full blocks to scan for payments
<Adlai>
also, #bitcoin-dev
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<chris13243>
adam3us, ok, true, but still, my method has you not downloading anything header related and you don't have to keep anything around not even block headers. This makes building wallets much easier.
<andytoshi>
chris13243: what you've written is so oversimplified that it sounds deliberately misleading
<chris13243>
I wrote it so that soeone who is not a bitcoin expert can follow
<Adlai>
"Dear Diary, today I got mistaken for the inventor of hashcash"
<andytoshi>
chris13243: somebody who isn't an expert will conclude falsehoods from what you've written
<chris13243>
what is false
<andytoshi>
read the papers that i linked. i spent a lot of time writing them.
<chris13243>
are you saying moneywagon style SPV is not possible? or that the can be hacked easier?
<chris13243>
just because something is simplified and not 100% detail perfect doesn't make it false.
<andytoshi>
no, i'm saying that your "bitcoin is broken because it does not use trusted parties, use trusted parties instead" rhetoric has been beaten to death
<Adlai>
how about "moneywagon 'SPV' is a sufficient departure from bitcoin's trust-minimization that it should be given a different name"
<fluffypony>
money-lossen
<andytoshi>
how about "if you want trusted parties you have literally every other payment system in history available to you"
* Adlai
offers TMPV - trust-maximized yadayada
<fluffypony>
APM - Adlai Payment System
<chris13243>
you have a choice who you trust
<chris13243>
you are not forced to trust one person
<andytoshi>
this is a research channel and this has been discussed ad nauseum, please no more of this
<fluffypony>
chris13243: I run blockr.io's full node
<chris13243>
andyou can easiely cross check with another trusted source
<fluffypony>
promise
<fluffypony>
I'll even give you the IP
<fluffypony>
just connect to it
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<Adlai>
chris13243: serious question: why aren't you taking this discussion to #bitcoin ?
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<warren>
amiller: ping
<amiller>
hi warren
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<maaku>
anyone have numbers on average / median utxo bloat per block byte?
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<btcdrak>
I've been thinking about sipa's versionbits proposal and it occurred to me we could free up all the bits in nVersion for use because the previous softforks have already reached enforcement. We could alter the code to enforce on whatever fixed blocknumber/hash enforcement occurred on. We're left with a clean slate in theory where we can use the entire
<gwillen>
btcdrak: you have the same switchover problem that the forks had in the first place -- as long as there are still non-upgraded clients not using the new code, you can't safely emit things that reuse those bits for other stuff
<gmaxwell>
btcdrak: prior soft-forks require the version to be greater than X. (1,2 eg.)
<gmaxwell>
and half the space was killed by the first >0 requirement (because its signed)
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<Adlai>
it's not like we've reached version bit postscarcity
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