<lgierth>
the specs nicola has been writing are pretty good
<Kubuxu>
kpcyrd: imagine json that is able to link to bitcoin blockchain and ethereum blockchain
<lgierth>
or to specific timeframes in a video file
<kpcyrd>
interesting, but still not sure what's the specific usecase. reading the website now
<lgierth>
it's the 42 of data
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<lgierth>
!!11
<kpcyrd>
I assume it's related to "have an object 'include' other objects to form a large folder in ipfs"?
<Kubuxu>
yup
<lgierth>
oh the website is wip
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<lgierth>
but not terribly inaccurate
<substack>
ipld is ready :o
<kpcyrd>
btw, you might want to fix https://ipld.io/ and replace the certs on ipfs.io with something different than StartCom, browsers got pretty aggressive towards StartCom/wosigns behaviour and I'm not sure how long that's going to work :)
<kpcyrd>
nice :) wosign is restricted from issuing new certs and they won't be accepted in browsers, so they started backdating certs and I'm not sure what happens next
<lgierth>
we're already using our first lets encrypt cert for /dns4/star-signal.cloud.ipfs.team/tcp/443/wss
<lgierth>
dokku's lets encrypt integration worked flawlessly, immediately <3
<substack>
ipld will be great for peermaps, I can maintain a pointer to the latest hash
<whyrusleeping>
substack: yeah, its in master, and will be in the next release (coming quite soon)
<kpcyrd>
nice :) let me now if you need any help with that, I did quite a lot of funky stuff, like automatically issuing certs for firewalled systems and dns records that don't point into routable ipv6 (you probably know what I'm talking about) :)
<lgierth>
btw what's your gut feeling about handing out ssl certs to anyone for the yet-to-come distributed gateway? where local-ish networks can hijack e.g. the ipfs.link zone and resolve it to their own local ipfs gateway
<lgierth>
the specifics would be a spec, but i'm not sure about the part of handing out certs to anyone
<lgierth>
the more ipfs hashes appear in urls or response headers, the more a browser addon can verify (and replace the ssl lock in this regard)
<lgierth>
it's also related to CSP and origins
<lgierth>
it might be ok with TLS 1.3 (PFS)
<Magik6k_>
Q: Is ipfs.link intended to be overridden in my local DNS for standard named local network gateway?
<kpcyrd>
lgierth: didn't see the message until now, got distracted by Adam Ruins Everything :)
<kpcyrd>
lgierth: I'm not even sure a CA would let you do this, they might revoke the cert after the priv key went public
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<lgierth>
Magik6k_: ipfs gateway, not dhcp gateway. the dns server they'd advertise to you would hijack the ipfs.link zone, and if you're not using their dns server, it wouldn't apply
<lgierth>
kpcyrd: mh!
<kpcyrd>
lgierth: the problem is, that you remove pretty much all of the security aspects from https.
<lgierth>
eeh no that doesn't make sense, why would their private key get public
<lgierth>
they don't create individual signing keys per domain/customer do they?
<kpcyrd>
lgierth: oh, are we talking about a restricted set of people?
<Magik6k_>
most routers SOHO allow for simple overrides in integrated DNS server/cache which is advertised/configured by DHCP, but still neat.
<lgierth>
it'd be manual
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<kpcyrd>
you might hit caps with letsencrypt that specify how many free certs you can get for a domain
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<kpcyrd>
lgierth: the problem is, that browser vendors got aggressiv towards mixed content for a reason. if you load eg. javascript from an http origin on a https website, an attacker can get access to the "secure" origin by injecting malicious javascript.
<Magik6k_>
As for ipfs.link SSL IMO local PKI setup, possibly with helper scripts seems to be the simplest sane option
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<whyrusleeping>
Magik6k_: your acronym density is unusually high
<lgierth>
maybe it's best to just leave ssl out
<Magik6k_>
heh
<kpcyrd>
lgierth: now, if I have a website and I instruct the browser to include specific javascript from a 3rd party server via, I can sort of ensure their browser at least gets that data securely from that server, but the server could still be malicious (let's ignore SRI for a second). That'd be the best I can get with http and how it addresses content.
<kpcyrd>
lgierth: now, if the server is friendly, it serves the content I intended it to serve and everything is fine. Now, if there are malicious people that own a certificate for that domain, they are pretty much certified to act as that origin. They are able to intercept the session and now have control of what is being served.
<lgierth>
but but PFS in TLS 1.3
<kpcyrd>
lgierth: PFS is about encryption, I'm all about authentication :)
<lgierth>
cool, the browser addons and other clients take care of verifying the response
<lgierth>
mh
<kpcyrd>
you could utilize subresource integrity to instruct the browser to checksum the file before doing anything, but not every developer is going to do that and not every user is going to have the addon installed
<lgierth>
yeah it's all not very pretty
<lgierth>
maybe it's better to just rely on browser addons hijacking requests to ipfs stuff
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* rk[ghost]
waves
<rk[ghost]>
is ipfs get suppose to spit out any information?
<rk[ghost]>
testing pulling a large file from someone.. curious if it is working or not..
<whyrusleeping>
rk[ghost]: it should output a progress bar
<whyrusleeping>
the problem is that it wont show a progress bar until it gets the first block (so it can tell how big things are)
<whyrusleeping>
so if thats the case, then you and the someone youre getting something from might not be able to connect
<whyrusleeping>
(NAT issues, someones daemon might be down, someone might not have internet at the moment)
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<rk[ghost]>
whyrusleeping: aye aye, thanks. i would have hoped that the get function would give some output..
<rk[ghost]>
mayve i will have to hack it also to 'waiting for first block..'
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<whyrusleeping>
rk[ghost]: yeah, thats worth filing an issue over
<rk[ghost]>
right now me and the person are testing.. so we are both online.. i have my daemon running in a window.. and i believe person does as well
<rk[ghost]>
we just tried a new hash (smaller file) but ipfs get $HASH still is no output (so seemingly cannot find first block)
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<rk[ghost]>
when i run, ipfs swarm peers, it lists 70+ peers it seems
<ani>
Hey, I'm looking at making a web archiver / crawler for a fun project. One thing I'd like to do is make it scalable, and I'd like to use IPFS to back it. However, I need to know two things: Are there plans to implement the Memento Protocol (https://mementoweb.org/guide/rfc/) and can I use multiple IPFS daemons on the same IPFS repo?
<ani>
If that's possible, I could use https://infinit.sh/ or similar for the backing storage platform and run ipfs-cluster nodes in my workers so that they can autopin stuff they archive.
<ani>
whyrusleeping: I'd like to discuss some things relating to IPFS-cluster and ipfs-pack. I sent you an email about it.
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<ani>
Hey, so I'm looking to build an archival thing as a proof-of-concept in Go but I'd like to use IPFS as the backing store.
<whyrusleeping>
sounds like a fun idea
<ani>
Since I recognize a ton of stuff on the internet is repetitive libraries (jQuery).
<whyrusleeping>
substack: are you still in hawaii?
<ani>
However, ipfs-cluster is very far from at the point at which it would be useful on its own to store this data.
<whyrusleeping>
substack: i'm at javascript night at sudo room, i was told there would be substack
<ani>
So what I was considering was running an infinit.sh cluster that each worker ("crawler") mounts, and having the workers publish the stuff they get via ipfs onto the shared ipfs repo.
<whyrusleeping>
ani: yeah, ipfs-cluster isnt ready yet
<whyrusleeping>
hrm... publishing into a shared ipfs repo is weird
<ani>
I could have a microservice to handle pinning and keep a daemon or something running.
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<substack>
whyrusleeping: I'm in hawaii yes
<substack>
I have no plans to be in the bay area
<whyrusleeping>
oh, well alright then
<ani>
whyrusleeping: What is the vision for ipfs-cluster?
<ani>
I.e. is it closer to, say, s3, or a fully decentralized p2p deal.
<whyrusleeping>
ani: its aiming to be what you want, but its not ready at this point
<ani>
So it's aiming for ipfs infinit.sh?
<whyrusleeping>
its basically aiming to make a bunch of different ipfs nodes behave like one
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<ani>
Alright. whyrusleeping I had a few ideas that would be absolutely amazing for other projects I do (climate mirror):
<whyrusleeping>
ani: i'm not entirely clear on what infinit.sh is supposed to be, but i think it might be similar
<ani>
There should be a DHT to discover clusters based on the hash of an ipfs-pack.
<whyrusleeping>
that would definitely be interesting...
<whyrusleeping>
i've been wanting to use the dht for more large scale things
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<whyrusleeping>
as opposed to the fine grained 'who has every single hash' stuff
<ani>
Basically :P
<whyrusleeping>
huh, okay
<ani>
But wait, there's more: packs should support "maintainers;" if an agency (climate mirror) makes a pack, we supply an RSA public key in it. Then, if we need to update it, we can send a signed "execute order 66" to a node in the cluster, and the node will pass it on before dropping out and switching to the new one.
<ani>
So that clusters can be "patched"
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<ani>
whyrusleeping: the thing about infinit that really appeals to me is the ability to specify capacity on a per-node level; i.e., since blocks are what, 2MB, there's not really any reason that the cluster operates on a higher level.
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<whyrusleeping>
on the infinit.sh comparisons thing, it says that the environment for ipfs is "controlled and worldwide". I'm not entirely sure what that means here
<ani>
At least, the cluster can pin something but each node need not pin the entire thing.
<whyrusleeping>
right, each node in the cluster will be able to pin a subset of the whole
<whyrusleeping>
Thats an interesting idea for updating packs
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<ani>
Well, even less than that; I think cluster nodes shouldn't operate on a pin level but act as mere storage providers. Then, the cluster as a whole should be able to operate on a pin-basis.
<whyrusleeping>
right
<whyrusleeping>
thats the aim i beleive
<whyrusleeping>
the individual nodes arent really aware of pins at the global context
<ani>
My impression thus far has been that nodes are assigned stuff to pin, right?
<whyrusleeping>
they 'pin' just as a low level concept of preventing content to not be garbage collected
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<kegan>
sorry, removing idle users from this room ^
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<kegan>
notably a metric ton of guests..
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<hio>
somebody can store childporn on my computer with this software, right?
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<lgierth>
no
<lgierth>
not sure where you got this FUD
<__uguu__>
ONLY if you pin it
<__uguu__>
as in YOU pin it
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<__uguu__>
otherwise, no
<__uguu__>
think of it like bittorrent
<__uguu__>
you only participate in downloading what you chose to
<__uguu__>
same with ipfs
<lgierth>
no, the answer is simple: no
<lgierth>
somebody can *not* store something on your computer
<__uguu__>
right, the answer is no
<lgierth>
you're right of course, but this FUD needs a clear no :)
<lgierth>
otherwise the impression to others is, aah ok it's complicated
<__uguu__>
ya
<hio>
ok so it's complicated?
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<hio>
it's a shared filesystem with peers. Clearly somebody can share something with me onto my computer that i dont like and which is illegal
<hio>
lets take a normal looking picture. In reality that picture has a hidden childpornographic picture INSIDE it. Only pedos know this mechanism and know which pictures contain hidden pictures. Then I would be "agreeing" to downloading pictures which secretly have hidden pedo pictures. This is much less likely on the regular internet.
<lgierth>
no
<lgierth>
it's really very simple, someone can not store stuff on your computer
<lgierth>
stop spreading FUD please
<lgierth>
and the scenario you describe is just as possible on the internet
<hio>
yeah but with ipfs ppl can now say "oh gee i downloaded this 2GB load of pictures totally innocently" whereas normally ppl dont download 2GB of pictures who all happen to contain childporn
<hio>
also you might agree to download an encrypted set of files
<hannes[m]>
Of course someone could pretend that grannys_recipes.pdf is recipes but if you load the pdf in unzip it will extract to an virtualbox machine image filled with granny's nudies
<hannes[m]>
But seriously?
<lgierth>
hio: stop associating ipfs with cp without any base or evidence
<hio>
the point is that legally I'm now in trouble because i downloaded those files
<hannes[m]>
If you are scared of pinning other people's content then either dont or verify first
<kythyria[m]>
hio: So, where did you get the hash of those files?
<hio>
whereas with the normal web, i wouldnt download pictures actively myself.
<hio>
kythyria[m], the webservice that wants me to 'share' will publish hashes
<hannes[m]>
Someone could post something questionable in this very channel, causing your client to display it
<kythyria[m]>
Yes, and?
<hio>
basically like julian assange
<kythyria[m]>
So... why are you pinning those hashes?
<hio>
he posts encrypted data dumps too.. they could all be full of child porn
<__uguu__>
... so don't pin them?
<hio>
what do you mean by 'pinning'
<hannes[m]>
Are you asking about a specific service or are you just constructing obscure scenarios
<kythyria[m]>
Or are you one of those nitwits that thinks the existence of a feature forces you to use it.
<kythyria[m]>
hio: And, knowing this, you still downloaded those dumps?
<hannes[m]>
Lol
<hannes[m]>
Learn what ipfs is before shitting on it please
<pent>
lel
<hio>
lets say that facebook operates on ipfs, they need to share the load for it to be truly "distributed" right. so they post hashes and encourage sharing of them
<kythyria[m]>
hio: Pinning is telling your ipfs node to fetch a file and keep it in local storage.
<hio>
yes, they encourage pinning it so that its truly "free and open and shared" internet
<kythyria[m]>
hio: Only someone with as much storage as facebook could pin the "all of facebook" hash.
<kythyria[m]>
In practice you'd pin your own uploads and your friends would maybe pin yours.
<hio>
ok wow, i just downloaded ipfs and i clicked on it and it just showed a black tiny windnow for a millisecond and then it vanished.. did you guys just install a virus on my computer?
<kythyria[m]>
hio: Your objection is literally equivalent to "HTTP is terrible because if a webserver exists hosting CP I have no choice but to mirror it"
<__uguu__>
lolz
<kythyria[m]>
It's a command-line thing.
<__uguu__>
trolling
<kythyria[m]>
Run it from powershell or cmd.exe
<hio>
you're commanding my internet line now?
<hio>
this is all a little too scary for me
<kythyria[m]>
Not sure if clueless or just trolling >_>
<__uguu__>
trolling probably
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<hio>
alright i figured it out but its broken anyway
<kythyria[m]>
...
<hio>
i installed it but i dont see anything new in my directory
<hio>
guys helhp me
<hio>
its not working for me
<hio>
Check out some of the other files in this directory:
<hio>
./quick-start <-- usage examples
<hio>
./help
<hio>
./about
<hio>
./readme <-- this file
<hio>
./security-notes
<hio>
i dont see a quick-start folder
<hio>
HELP
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<SchrodingersScat>
oh my
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<kythyria[m]>
That text is part of the output of `ipfs cat /ipfs/QmYwAPJzv5CZsnA625s3Xf2nemtYgPpHdWEz79ojWnPbdG/readme`, yeah?
<kythyria[m]>
Which is a TED talk on folding microscopes.
<hio>
ok i clicked on it
<kythyria[m]>
No. If anything, if you click on it you're accessing _his_ computer.
<hio>
nothing is happening
<kythyria[m]>
You are running the daemon?
<hio>
so you say kythyria[m], i cant trust random hackers
<hio>
yeah im on the website
<SchrodingersScat>
kythyria[m]: oh yeah, that one was neat
<hio>
kythyria[m], it just prompted me to save a random file
<hio>
it has no extension and a huge hash name
<hio>
what is this shit wtf, you're hacking me after all huh. you think im stupid? im not gonna save that on my desktop
<kythyria[m]>
It's a ~64MB MP4.
<hio>
no it didnt have an extension and the filename was a hash
<SchrodingersScat>
hio: why are you still here then?
<hio>
im not saving that
<kythyria[m]>
hio: That's actually normal given how IPFS works.
<kythyria[m]>
(oddly enough, if I click it Firefox understands straight away)
<hio>
look, YOU guys said that this software is like a great new internet and all im seeing here is a bunch of random strings with secret files and connections to ppl around the world
<kythyria[m]>
alterego: Ensure IPv4-only hosts can find my machine (pandion) when the daemon is running. There's a wrinkle in this: The physical network is IPv4 only, and I'm using a VPN. The VPN is dual stack, so there's NATted IPv4, with tcp/4001 forwarded to pandion, and it gives a public IPv6 address out to each client.
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<kythyria[m]>
... I should check I've done correct forwarding first.
<kythyria[m]>
Whee, nope
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<alterego>
kythyria[m]: you should be able to disable IPv6 in your config file, under "Address"/"Swarm"
<whyrusleeping>
SchrodingersScat: i'm not sure what youre asking... filecoin is in progress.
<google77>
cool
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<google77>
So I was wondering... Every time I upload something to IPFS, it gets a hash. And every time I make changes on it, it gets a new hash, right?
<google77>
What if one of my peers is a malicious scammer, that downloads my site, changes it and tries to phish people. How will it be possible to distinguish such scams in IPFS?
<phorse>
since your peer changed the site, it will have a different hash -> people looking for your site (hash) won't find the scammers
<phorse>
*scammer's
<google77>
Ok, but just asking, if I changed my own site, people will automatically get its new hash? Content does get new hashes upon change?
<google77>
Or does it not?
<google77>
sorry if it's a stupid question.
<phorse>
no, not stupid! thinking immutably is different from what most people are used to
<phorse>
so, the solution to that is ipns
<phorse>
interplanetary name space?
<phorse>
I'm not sure what it actually stands for, but what it does is provide mutability
<phorse>
so it takes the hash of your public key, and points at whatever you tell it to point to
<phorse>
whatever ipfs hash you tell it to, that is
<phorse>
and to answer your question, yes, the hash will change drastically even if you just make a tiny change
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<google77>
So when I update my webpage IPNS will point to the new hash. I know, changing just one bit in a hash can cause a 50% difference in output.. What I wanted to know is which part of IPNS will make it possible to show the latest update to my webpage.
<phorse>
well, IPNS won't automatically point to the new hash, you have to tell it what to point to
<google77>
I know it won't do it automatically, but apps and scripts can be written to do automatise that. IPFS isn't really one monolithic protocol, right?
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<google77>
makes me wonder on which ISO/OSi layer it is? My initual guess was the application layer.
<phorse>
I'm not sure what you mean by one monolithic protocol, or what layer it is, but it can be automated like you describe
<phorse>
s/it can/it's possible to
<kythyria[m]>
Very few protocols that are in use really fit to the OSI model.
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<google77>
Some of it's components can be protocols of their own, can't they? Like IPNS?
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<kythyria[m]>
(in particular, much of the functionality of the session layer is moved into a layer on top of the presentation layer)
<google77>
Like IPFS itself is a application layer protocol, however IPNS does some routing if I am not mistaken which would perhaps make IPNS a network layer protocol?
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<kythyria[m]>
Don't try to hard to fit _any_ real protocol to the OSI model.
<google77>
OK
<kythyria[m]>
Even HTTP doesn't fit it.
<kythyria[m]>
(heck, if you want to be pedantic neither does IRC)
<google77>
well OK
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<SchrodingersScat>
whyrusleeping: then how do I get in on this?
<SchrodingersScat>
and let you premine the entire blockchain -_-
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<whyrusleeping>
if youre worried about that then you probably don't really know too much about cryptocurrencies
<whyrusleeping>
proving that no pre-mining occurred is fairly trivial
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<SchrodingersScat>
whyrusleeping: not trying to prove it did or didn't happen, trying to get in
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<whyrusleeping>
This channel is for ipfs, not filecoin. Lets keep discussion about ipfs
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<kythyria[m]>
Whee, got my port forwarding working
<whyrusleeping>
kythyria[m]: nice
<whyrusleeping>
i have it working on my home router too, but occasionally upnp from other services causes the router to freak out and overwrite the port forwarding i have for ipfs
<kythyria[m]>
... does the daemon favour ipv6 or ipv4 though?
<kythyria[m]>
(and how does it pick up manual forwards?)
<whyrusleeping>
i dont think it favors one or the other yet
<kythyria[m]>
Hm
<whyrusleeping>
and it doesnt pick up manual forwards automatically, if you add a manual forwarding, it should match your swarm listener port
<whyrusleeping>
(4001 by default)
<whyrusleeping>
We are going to add an 'AnnounceAddrs' config field so you can tell your node to explicitly advertise certain addresses
<kythyria[m]>
Currently it doesn't list the manual forward _at all_
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<iso>
hey. I am trying to upgrade to 0.4.4, but having some problems, since my disk is full.
<iso>
any files I can delete in the blocks/ or datastore/ without resulting in problems?
<demize>
iso: You could try `ipfs repo gc` first.
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<iso>
It returns with Error: api not running
<iso>
ipfs daemon Initializing daemon... Found outdated fs-repo, migrations need to be run. Run migrations now? [y/N] N Not running migrations of fs-repo now. Please get fs-repo-migrations from https://dist.ipfs.io Error: fs-repo requires migration
<kythyria[m]>
Run the old daemon long enough to gc?
<iso>
It there anyway I can figure out where there the pined file are located?
<iso>
I would like to keed them and then remove other block?
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<whyrusleeping>
thats hard to do manually
<whyrusleeping>
what didnt work about running an older daemon and doing a gc?
<iso>
Don't remember anymore. Should I reinstall the old version, and try again ? Problably something about diskspace.
<SchrodingersScat>
oh wow, ipfs repo gc removed a bunch of stuff
<iso>
Here is the output if I select y.
<iso>
ipfs daemon Initializing daemon... Found outdated fs-repo, migrations need to be run. Run migrations now? [y/N] y => Looking for suitable fs-repo-migrations binary. => None found, downloading. => Running: /tmp/go-ipfs-migrate958594683/fs-repo-migrations -to 4 -y Found fs-repo version 3 at /ip ===> Running migration 3 to 4... applying 3-to-4 repo migration locking repo at "/ip" - verifying version is '3' - opening datastore at "/ip
<iso>
ipfs migration: migration 3 to 4 failed: write /ip/datastore/MANIFEST-001262: no space left on device => Failed: /tmp/go-ipfs-migrate958594683/fs-repo-migrations -to 4 -y The migrations of fs-repo failed: migration failed: exit status 1 If you think this is a bug, please file an issue and include this whole log output. https://github.com/ipfs/fs-repo-migrations Error: migration failed: exit status 1 c
<iso>
Ok just installed old version.
<iso>
cyam ~ # /usr/bin/ipfs version ipfs version 0.4.2 cyam ~ # /usr/bin/ipfs repo gc Error: api not running cyam ~ # /usr/bin/ipfs daemon Initializing daemon... Error: Failure to decode config: EOF cyam ~ # /usr/bin/ipfs repo gc Error: api not running
<whyrusleeping>
rm ~/.ipfs/api
<whyrusleeping>
failure to decode config?
<whyrusleeping>
thats... weir
<whyrusleeping>
take a look at ~/.ipfs/config and make sure it looks like valid json