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<vtomole>
pjz: Hey me and mraxilus have been brainstorming IPOS, and so far we've come to "A Dropbox for Operating Systems", which is something that could easily be built on top of IPFS. idk if my memory is accurate, but jbenet might have mentioned that this kind of idea is already being used in data centers. What do you think?
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<anacrolix>
hello
<anacrolix>
does anyone know where i can locate the implementation used in ipfs for utp?
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<haad>
good morning
<ion>
gm
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<haad>
r0kk3rz: I was just playing with video and audio to ipfs-log yesterday. webcam -> p2p log. it kinda worked but the browser APIs for recording and playing are undocumented, complex and brittle. perhaps another (native) approach would yield better results.
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<haad>
r0kk3rz: and to answer your original question, no, haven't seen any else using it for that
<haad>
r0kk3rz: that said, I did get it working between two browsers, one broadcasting a video feed (with audio) and the other peer receiving and playing it (technically they use orbit-db which under the hood uses ipfs-log)
<victorbjelkholm_>
good morning!
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<r0kk3rz>
haad: that sounds really cool
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<Mateon1>
haad: Yep, audio and video encoding/decoding/synthesis in Javascript is hard
<Mateon1>
I'm actually not quite sure if it's at all possible to locally generate an audio sample without service worker dark magic
<Mateon1>
Well, generate and play a stream of audio, rather
<Mateon1>
It's easy to create a singular blob
<kpcyrd>
Mateon1: I have generated audio with javascript a few years ago
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<Mateon1>
kpcyrd: Yeah, I mostly mean create a stream of audio
<daviddias>
richardlitt: thank you for the heads up
<Mateon1>
If you put it all into a single blob, you can do it, but that doesn't work for infinite audio generators, or lazy generators
<Mateon1>
I wish to know how the audiovisual demo things in Javascript manage to create a neverending stream of audio
<richardlitt>
daviddias: de nada
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<richardlitt>
Can someone who knows more about CRDTs explain to me what a delta mutation is? Or, rather, what does `delta` mean in a mathematical context? Is it a derivative, or a mapping?
<r0kk3rz>
richardlitt: delta as in the diff between two states
<richardlitt>
r0kk3rz: Thank you.
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<sprint-helper>
The next event "All Hands Call" is in 15 minutes.
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<richardlitt>
dignifiedquire: You all set to stream?
<kevina>
does anyone know is whyrusleeping will be available later today?
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<A124>
Is there anyone that could get a polynomial chunker into experimental branch? I don't feel I understand the topic well enough to do so. The one in tarsnap is made for maximal size savings. Then there is of course the common rabin one.
<dignifiedquire>
the webui only shows the peers you are connected to, not all peers in the network
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<lgierth>
kevina: not sure he's gonna be online today. on a plane from iceland right now
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<daviddias>
dignifiedquire: just ordered a heater :D
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<victorbjelkholm>
daviddias, I did the same yesterday! A fan-heater for my feet+legs when I'm in my little office
<victorbjelkholm>
what's wrong with us?
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<A124>
dignifiedquire Oh thanks. See it now. The difference of the tarsnap implementation is that it has fast convergence and is made to squeeze most of the useful space. Which is +-32kb chunks I believe, which given my statistical research it a sweetspot for balance of overhead and dedup of textual files as well random lookups, etc. And the rabin also has hardcoded average chunk size, which is easy [...]
<A124>
[...] fix, but adding an option for that might? be handy. var DefaultBlockSize int64 = 1024 * 256
<daviddias>
someone should tell to the people of Iberia that just because they have countries with a lot of Sunlight, it should not be an excuse to build proper house insulation
<A124>
On the note, Turkey had a brutal snowstorm few days ago.
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<dignifiedquire>
A124: interesting, would be great if you could open an issue on go-ipfs discussions this, with some reference materials if possible
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: victorbjelkholm Oo do you not have heaters built in?
<victorbjelkholm>
dignifiedquire, have heated floor here, but not everywhere
<victorbjelkholm>
but the windows are usually very crappy made, so you can always feel wind indoors next to the windows
<daviddias>
dignifiedquire: it is more an insulation problem
<daviddias>
but yeah, I don't have heaters atm
<dignifiedquire>
ouch
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<dignifiedquire>
you should get a treadmill desk, that way you get fit and don't freeze :P
<vtomole>
Sorry to disrupt, I've been working on designing IPOS which is an idea that a user old_kanye brought up on here. Right now i'm leaning towards just "A Dropbox for Operating Systems" . I would love some feedback.
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<pjz>
vtomole: it sounds similar to netboot in functionality
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<pjz>
vtomole: er, PXEboot, I mean
<vtomole>
I've never heard of it, can you give me a summary on it? (i'm too lazy to google)
<pjz>
vtomole: it's an old boot-from-network method that ends up mounting a rootfs via a network drive of some sort (usually NFS or CIFS)
<pjz>
vtomole: also: if it's something that's that close to what you're implementing, you would do well to learn about it
<vtomole>
pjz: Think this https://www.sixa.io/ and this https://www.paperspace.com/, but instead of all the profits going to the corporations, it's going to the people who contribute their resources to keep IPFS running.
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<A124>
pjz, vtomole Regional hosting provider tested long time ago already HP Moonshot blade servers. They are ok in air, but not when there is more of them. One rack eats 40kW, which is lot of heat, but the density is great. The second generation Moonshot is even more denser. They are going to submerge those in oil in a concrete semi-bunker, and spend the heat to heat up local outdoor pool. Giving [...]
<A124>
[...] almost all year swimming while not having to spend on conventional AC.
<A124>
Sorry for the ... disorganized structure of text.
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<vtomole>
A124: I'm sorry, I'm having trouble understanding how this is related to what we are discussing.
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<A124>
Personal PC in the cloud.
<pjz>
vtomole: I'm not sure what advantage IPFS brings, really. IPFS really shines in a kind of 'broadcast' situation
<A124>
It will have limited flash onboard storage.
<pjz>
vtomole: because then the caching/bandwidth wins are obvious. Less so in a 1-to-1 role.
<A124>
pjz A large portion of used information is shared stuff, like OS images and packages.
<A124>
A lot of providers use openvz for that reason and local mirrors of popular distro packages
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<pjz>
A124: sure, but a VM doesn't abstract or layer *any* of that
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<pjz>
IMO IPFS is great for things like package repos or docker shipyard, where the images in question have wide distribution
<pjz>
but the place where all that gets put together - in a PC or VM - doesn't get much of a win, because everyone has their own personal config files, etc.
<vtomole>
pjz: Yes this is a hurdle (it took 2 hours for me to fetch an 800 mb vm from IPFS) but the solution is incentiviting people on the network to host with filecoin. This will make fetching huge files like personal vms easier.
<vtomole>
I give you money to host my computer, not a huge corporation.
<pjz>
I kind of doubt it. Also, it might be faster to just build most of the VM from scratch, from those well-distributed repos, and then put personal stuff on a thin layer on top.
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<A124>
pjz Blades are not VMs and it would go hand in hand with IPFS.
<pjz>
A124: yes, I know what blades are, but that's not what we're discussing.
<A124>
Related, but obviously you don't care, so I will just shut up.
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<vtomole>
pjz: Any reason why you think filecoin won't help distribute personal vms quickly throughout the network?
<pjz>
vtomole: I guess they could, but they're still ultimately limited by the bandwidth of the origin
<vtomole>
pjz: Ahh bandwidth limitations, the bane of our profession!
<pjz>
if they didn't exist, IPFS wouldn't need to exist :)
<vtomole>
A124: What do you thinking of the potential bandwidth issues in fetching large personal vms?
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<vtomole>
pjz: So you see world where plain vanilla VMs exist in IPFS, but every-time i boot one up, I have to reconfigure it to my personal one?
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<r0kk3rz>
vtomole: why wouldnt it self construct based upon your personal recipe?
<vtomole>
r0kk3rz: You are talking about a config file that will reconstruct your vm for you?
<r0kk3rz>
something like that
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<vtomole>
r0kk3rz: That could work! Personal config files are way smaller than VMs, so fetching them won't cause such a strain on the bandwidth.
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<r0kk3rz>
well if you're already talking about bootstrapping a whole vm from scratch, theres not much you can do about bandwidth
<r0kk3rz>
but that doesnt have to be a deal breaker
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<A124>
vtomole Encryption and personal files means no dedup. With UDP the limit is the bandwidth.
<A124>
But else I do not see where IPFS fits in if the VMs are encrypted.
<A124>
Other thing is to make an IPFS filesystem.
<A124>
BTRFS with complementary tree could serve both as OS FS and a storage layer.
<pjz>
vtomole: somewhat, but also I might have a personal datastore close by (my phone? somewhere) that is the most-personal layer of data
<A124>
So both host and client (ipfs wise) would have same layers. The files could be tagged to be encrypted and stuff but vanilla files not.
<vtomole>
r0kk3rz: Then this looks like something that only experiments will be able to answer :which one is faster? Booting personal vm or booting a plain vm and the re-configuring it to a personal one based on a config file. The second one is obviously faster without file-coin, but once file-coin exists.. then maybe....
<A124>
That way you can use everything that is already public with dedup across whole network, but store everything else securely.
<vtomole>
A124: hmm very interesting/
<A124>
vtomole In most cases the first one would be faster. If you pay enough to have enough BW and have fast enough internet.
<A124>
I basically designed a system, then I came into realization it is more or less BTRFS and IPFS. Given hybdrid pub/private IPFS it can give best of all world.
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<A124>
The major problem I see in IT today is that everyone does use something else and as well resources get into a lot of different things.
<A124>
Which is why IPFS is one of few things that I see as something that off track from the regular. The current problem of IPFS I see is: no bandwidth management, large RAM footprint.
<vtomole>
pjz: Do you see that personal data-store being on IPFS?
<A124>
I tried looking at peerstore, got lost, have to return or someone else have to handle that.
<A124>
Capitalism alone does not work, and everything workign hand in hand with that does not work either.
<pjz>
vtomole: sure, could be.
<vtomole>
A124: An IPFS file-system? that's just mounting /ipfs and /ipns correct?
<A124>
There needs to be balance of both individual and social (collaborative) incentive. And that applies to things everywhere.
<A124>
vtomole In the terms I used that it would be root /
<A124>
But /ipfs /ipns would remain to work as it does now or very close to that.
<vtomole>
A124: for sure: would making it root mean having to change the kernel?
<A124>
The / would use a tree like BTRFS, and all/some/none data of those could also be in the IPFS.
<A124>
No change to kernel, but writing a FS driver.
<A124>
So given the angle of view the answer is yes/no
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<A124>
With given speed of things, that would be question for some experiment initiative, or some years from now. Another thing I would like to see are 'slim' IPFS nodes. So other nodes do more heavy lifting, as they can. It could merely be a mode of the regular binary but compilable slim only for smaller footprint.
<A124>
I'm loosing myself in Golang, else got some ideas and papers how to squash the size of peerstore and such. And that's a wrap. If you want more talk, We should probably move to the -dev.
<vtomole>
A124: I've read enough ideas here for today, now to go back to thinking :), Thank you for the talk! Talk to you later! Thanks pjz and r0kk3rz
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<Guest128423[m]>
9
<deltab>
that's Numberwang!
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<r0kk3rz>
deltab: rotate the board!
<deltab>
hehe
<deltab>
pjz: are you aware of oom_adj?
<deltab>
Mateon1: for media elements in html, there's Media Source Extensions (MSE) to allow for streaming
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<Mateon1>
deltab: Ah, that's good to know, I'll google for a bit
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<H3ndr1k[m]>
Hi, What is the correct way for ipns? TXT ipfs=xxx or TXT dnslink=xxx?
<lgierth>
H3ndr1k[m]: dnslink=
<H3ndr1k[m]>
ok, thanks. ipfs.git.sexy seems to do it wrong. And the whitepaper says ipfs= But ipfs.io has dnslink. I was confused ;)
<lgierth>
it used to be ipfs= in the very very beginning
<lgierth>
whyrusleeping: that's your host ^ :)
<H3ndr1k[m]>
ha, lol.
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<lgierth>
Kubuxu: can i pass options like --disable-transport-encryption in iptb?
<Kubuxu>
yes, afaik
<Kubuxu>
yea
<lgierth>
oh, nevermind, iptb start --args
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<lgierth>
now i'd love to be able to tell them, no, don't connect to any more nodes than i tell you to
<lgierth>
hrm
* lgierth
testing relay
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<Kubuxu>
lgierth: I am currently hacking on mmap based blockstore (decided why not).
<Kubuxu>
the wildest idea is: you could in theory mmap whole block device
<Kubuxu>
instead of file
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<lgierth>
let's construct a 6TB block
<lgierth>
just because
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<Kubuxu>
it should be possoble
<lgierth>
which data structure for the index of memory addresses?
<lgierth>
ideally something that fits into ram :P
<Kubuxu>
leveldb for the index
<Kubuxu>
at first, then we can think of something else
<Kubuxu>
if it is too slow
<Kubuxu>
custom btree in the same binary blob but locked into RAM
<lgierth>
i think you can run leveldb off memory directly
<Kubuxu>
probably
<Kubuxu>
also it has good caches
<Kubuxu>
magik is working on the allocator for me and the offset storage <3