<assadf>
as in bugs leveraged for malicious intent
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<lemmi>
"malicious intent" - still pretty vague
<assadf>
maybe that's as specific as i need to be to get the answer i need
<lemmi>
you can surely cause unnecessary bandwidth, and run out of ram, but i don't think i heard anything of a remote execution
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<assadf>
that's encouraging to hear
<Alpha64>
you don't cache content you didn't request if that's a concern
<assadf>
also am i contributing to the network by running ipfs daemon or do i have to cache content?
<Alpha64>
you can pin stuff to seed it
<lemmi>
if you aren't firewalled, you contribute to the dht your node just running. pinning content is always useful
<Alpha64>
that you consider valuable
<Alpha64>
pinning means marking content to be avoided by the upkeep that cleans the cache
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<Zimsky>
Alpha64: the 'upkeep'?
<Alpha64>
the GC ?
<Alpha64>
i don't know how to call it
<Alpha64>
does it have a name ?
<Zimsky>
oh the GC
<Zimsky>
how often does the GC purge the cache
<Alpha64>
that's a good question i don't know
<Zimsky>
I've always wondered that
<lemmi>
it doesn't by default
<lemmi>
and then it's only triggered when the repository hits a size-limit
<Zimsky>
figured
<Alpha64>
what's the default limit ?
<lemmi>
10G
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<Andrew[m]>
Question about how pinning works—I noticed that while pinning the Catalonia referendum website (2–3 GB? not sure how to check) the server maxed its upload bandwidth, the download bandwidth approximately mirrored the upload, and cumulatively around 10–20 GB was transferred both in and out. Upon completion of the pinning, both upload and download bandwidth dropped to a negligible rate. What explains the pattern of bandwid
<Andrew[m]>
usage during the pin?
<Andrew[m]>
I expected it to behave more like a traditional mirror—e.g. in this case 2–3 GB of download during the pin, negligible upload as I serve it back to the network.
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<Zimsky>
someone else pinning it and downloading from you?
<lemmi>
part of the upload is to announce the blocks you pinned to the network, which can result in some traffic. looking up who has what blocks also will make some noise
<lemmi>
but triple the actual filesize seems unlikely
<lemmi>
are you sure your 2-3GB guess is right?
<Zimsky>
Andrew[m]: also, what's the link to the site?
<Zimsky>
closest thing I can think of is the web ui
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<assadf>
where does a file go when i type ipfs add <file>?
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<simbalion>
Hi, I just read about this, is this channel the appropriate place for opinionated discussion? :)
<simbalion>
Having read the code of conduct it seems like it may be..
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<simbalion>
So I just read the article from "Kyle" about HTTP being obsolete and I wanted to say this IPFS thing sounds cool, but it isn't going to replace HTTP. Nobody wants a distributed web except tech geeks and a handful of "Information Should be Free!" types. I count myself in both groups, and I still don't want a distributed web.
<Alpha64>
it's not about destroying it
<Alpha64>
it's just that http has link rot, ipfs does not
<simbalion>
The coolest thing about websites is having control of your own little space on the web. It's like owning a house. But with IPFS it sounds like instead of owning a house, you own a column of a public house.
<simbalion>
Alpha64: I get that, and it's a great idea for specific purposes, for example Wikipedia would be great for IPFS. But my WordPress blog would not be.
<Alpha64>
why not?
<substack>
people put blogs on ipfs (and dat) it's great
<substack>
perfect for static content like that
<simbalion>
A couple of reasons. Most significantly is I want to have complete control of my Blog. I want to be able to take it offline and prevent people from maintaining it further. I know it's possible to archive the data and re-publish it but that's not the same because they only have access to data the visitor sees.
<Alpha64>
once you put data on the internet it's public anyway
<simbalion>
Another example is that I publish content which violates copyright laws. I do this because I have no respect for copyright laws. If my blog were re-published on IPFS, hypothetically speaking, couldn't that get other people in trouble under our currently idiotic copyright laws?
<simbalion>
Alpha64: sort of. The server-rendered version of my blog is "on the internet" but the actual blog is not, it's behind a codewall.
<Alpha64>
it's not publishing
<Alpha64>
it's like an URI
<Alpha64>
you don't push your content to the network
<simbalion>
That's not how this article reads
<Alpha64>
nothing in http stops people from cloning your site
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<simbalion>
That's simply not true, you can't just "clone" a dynamically generated website
<Alpha64>
but you can scrap any public info
<simbalion>
which is less than a 1:1 clone
<simbalion>
and what about corporate sites and E-commerce? They aren't going to be distributed ever
<simbalion>
imagine if your credit card data was distributed
<simbalion>
E-commerce is the real driver behind the future of the web
<simbalion>
I think this idea is really cool but it should supplement HTTP, not try to replace it
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<deltab>
Alpha64: 'scrape', not 'scrap'
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<Kythyria[m]>
simbalion: How is pinning not equivalent to scraping a conventional website?
<Kythyria[m]>
IPFS can't do dynamic stuff on its own.
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<jaimehrubiks2>
Hi there. I am totally new in this and have little knowledge on ipfs. I can't access ipfs.io because I think it is blocked in Spain due to catalunya issues. It seems to be blocked at dns level so I wonder if there is a public known alternative domain list or proxy list, or any other way to circunvent such an issue on ipfs. thanks in advance.
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<Silke^>
jaimehrubiks2: IPFS is peer to peer, so if you can install it you can access anything you want. The ipfs.io website can be accessed through other gateways like https://ipfs.infura.io/ipns/ipfs.io/
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<kpcyrd>
simbalion: in case you're still here, have a look how the ipfs.io websites are set up, they are all hosted with ipfs :)
<kpcyrd>
eg `dig TXT ipfs.io`
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<simbalion>
Kythyria[m]: That seems like a strawman question
<simbalion>
I'm not really sure why scraping a website is relevant to the subject at all. Scraping websites is only useful for marketing scripts and search engine robots.
<simbalion>
"regular use" does not include scraping. Regular use assumes that the site is readable in a browser
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<AphelionZ>
hi, might there be somebody around that I can PM with about our IPFS use case, for planning purposes?
<AphelionZ>
or is there such a guidance process, outreach person? our app's client part is done and we're looking at utilizing IPFS for the backend as much as possible
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<segator>
Hi to everyone, I thinking the posibility to move all my data to a IPFS Cluster with replication factor 5, 130TB of data replicated between 10 o 15 nodes of 50T every node.
<segator>
I Don't want to install raid systems in the nodes
<segator>
I prefer JBOD
<segator>
but what I'm worried is what happens if one of the drives of the JBOD dies
<segator>
the node needs to redownload all the data, or IPFS is enough inteligent to only redownload block losts?
<segator>
A possibility I think to avoid this problem, is run IPFS daemon per disk
<segator>
but could cause single file have the 5 replicas to the same machine(diferent disks) so we could have problem
<segator>
I was looking into the documentation but I didn't see anything related with Pining strategy
<segator>
maybe have a IPFS cluster per host with replication factor 1 with all the daemons per disk and interconect IPFS clusters of every host with other hosts
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<lgierth>
segator: hsanjuan knows more, but i suggest you open an issue describing your use case, most people are on holiday right now
<segator>
thank you I just created an issue
<segator>
I think it's very intersting people could create masive datastores with IPFS
<segator>
but it's very important something that controll the replication factor
<segator>
and agrupate nodes for host/zones/regions or whatever
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<lgierth>
yeah completely agreed
<lgierth>
i know that right now ipfs-cluster can't yet split a large dataset among nodes
<lgierth>
e.g. split a 100 GB dataset among 4 nodes of 50 GB each
<segator>
why can't do it?
<lgierth>
has not yet been implemented :)
<segator>
I mean if I understand correctly, ipfs cluster only pin files between nodes
<segator>
or are you talking about a single file?
<lgierth>
doesn't matter -- a dataset can be single file, or a directory, or even data that isn't represented as files/directories
<lgierth>
what i mean is, if the dataset's size exceeds the capacity of the ipfs-cluster nodes, it can't be stored at the moment
<lgierth>
it will work in the near future
<segator>
umh so ipfs cluster right now do a full copy 1-1 between nodes?
<segator>
because not, doesn't have sense that not work now
<lgierth>
you can split your big dataset into smaller chunks manually
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<lgierth>
e.g. if you have a directory with 100 subdirectories, pin a few here, pin a few there
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<lgierth>
anybody here located in spain right now? i'd like to check a few URLs
<segator>
an next month we are going to do a hackathon
<segator>
related with IPFS and health care
<lgierth>
nice
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<segator>
well not only related IPFS
<segator>
blockchain systems
<lgierth>
there's a few other hackathons about ipfs + health care that happened in the past
<lgierth>
i gotta go, sauna is calling
<segator>
well in fact what I asked before is related with that :)
<segator>
have a good day!
<lgierth>
hehe thanks! and good luck with your projects
<lgierth>
segator: one last question
<lgierth>
is www.ipfs.io blocked for you on movistar?
<lgierth>
www.ipfs.io doesn't actually exist, but the way the spanish DNS blocking system works, they can still put up blockings for pages that don't exist
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<assadf>
would ipfs be good for a game server that needed constant map updates, like minetest?
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<Icefoz_>
assadf: What kind of latency do your updates need?
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<Icefoz_>
and/or size.
<assadf>
im not sure. i'm not a developer but was impressed with the design of ipfs and was wondering if it would work for a minetest server. i have no idea what i'm doing
<Icefoz_>
I don't know how minetest works, so.
<assadf>
it's a c++ game with lua extensions that function as mods. i know that is not a great explanation
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<Icefoz_>
I think the answer is probably "IPFS is great for occasionally moving large chunks of data around that seldom change".
<Icefoz_>
"If you have lots of small things that change super often then not so much"
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<josuah>
Icefoz_: git is more suited for that, or by making "snapshots" like with git:
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<josuah>
a lot of untracked changes just stored traditionnaly, and then fewer ipfs-managed revisions
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<josuah>
just like git commits. it fits publication of contents (images, videos, pdfs), but for the web page/indexes themself...
<josuah>
some web pages get updates quite often. Sometimes even dynamically.
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<Kythyria[m]>
Yeah, minetest wouldn't be a good fit.
<Kythyria[m]>
Something like gmod or second life would have plenty of use for IPFS, as there's a lot more data that doesn't change much.
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<aquentson[m]>
Hi
<aquentson[m]>
I heard this tech is helping catalonia?
<aquentson[m]>
but isnt ipfs a bit like steem?
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<aquentson[m]>
as in
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<aquentson[m]>
there is a centralized way to access it
<r0kk3rz>
not exactly
<r0kk3rz>
its a p2p system, accessable from anywhere
<aquentson[m]>
not anywhere tho
<aquentson[m]>
you need domain right
<aquentson[m]>
centralized
<aquentson[m]>
same as steem website
<r0kk3rz>
there is an ipfs to http gateway, you dont need it to access ipfs
<r0kk3rz>
and you dont really need domains
<aquentson[m]>
then, how do you access it?
<aquentson[m]>
in 5 words or less
<karissa>
Just spent a week in barcelona, it's not really helping catalunya, they are changing the domains for important sites every morning
<karissa>
or recommending proxies
<aquentson[m]>
well, exactly
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<r0kk3rz>
aquentson[m]: you download a client and run it
<aquentson[m]>
on your iphone?
<aquentson[m]>
ok ok I download it
<aquentson[m]>
on laptop
<aquentson[m]>
then.. how do others see it?
<aquentson[m]>
and I'm not, I know criticism is, but I'm not
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<spiritusexmachin>
greets
<aquentson[m]>
how long does it take to download it r0kk3rz ?
<r0kk3rz>
the client itself isnt very big
<aquentson[m]>
I mean bitcoin has spv
<aquentson[m]>
light clients
<Alpha64>
it's not a blockchain
<r0kk3rz>
huh? ipfs has nothing to do with bitcoin
<aquentson[m]>
you just connect to node
<Alpha64>
go to ipfs.org and download it
<aquentson[m]>
but not dns
<aquentson[m]>
node
<Alpha64>
* ipfs.io
<aquentson[m]>
yeh but does it have light wallets
<Alpha64>
it's not a blockchain
<aquentson[m]>
like I download it on my fone
<Alpha64>
there are no wallets
<r0kk3rz>
yeah thats cool, but ipfs isnt like that
<aquentson[m]>
light node* then
<aquentson[m]>
why not?
<Alpha64>
it has nothing to do with bitcoin
<r0kk3rz>
because thats not what it is, it solves a completely different problem to bitcoin
<aquentson[m]>
why you fixated on bitcoin?
<aquentson[m]>
its a decentralized system
<aquentson[m]>
with nodes
<r0kk3rz>
.... and?
<aquentson[m]>
and light nodes that connect to full nodes presumably?
<aquentson[m]>
or could connect to them, presumably
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<r0kk3rz>
bittorrent is also a decentralised system, and is kinda like ipfs
<Alpha64>
there are no full and light nodes
<aquentson[m]>
so ipfs is bittorrent?
<r0kk3rz>
similar yes, its a better way to think about it
<aquentson[m]>
bittorrent operates on links
<aquentson[m]>
like, if you donwload their software, I mean bittorrent is just an intermediary
<r0kk3rz>
of course, you use it to download stuff through it, just like ipfs
<aquentson[m]>
so, what's the difference?
<aquentson[m]>
why not use bittorrent
<aquentson[m]>
and I dont mean fine details
<aquentson[m]>
high level
<r0kk3rz>
its like if all the torrents were merged into one big system, instead of being little per file systems
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<aquentson[m]>
but you access that system same way no?
<r0kk3rz>
no, you can just access it through the client
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<aquentson[m]>
why can't a light node connect and to a full node or client, then?
<aquentson[m]>
and access it that way
<aquentson[m]>
through their smartphone or app
<r0kk3rz>
what?
<aquentson[m]>
if you access it all through a client
<aquentson[m]>
which you download presumably and etc
<aquentson[m]>
why cant you have a light client which connects to this full client and so accesses it?
<r0kk3rz>
you can, but it mostly defeats the purpose
<aquentson[m]>
how?
<sknebel>
accessing files in IPFS through a web gateway is kind of like that. and the downside you see right now: the gateways get blocked
<r0kk3rz>
the different between a 'light client' and a 'full client' is very small
<aquentson[m]>
the gateway gets blocked because centralised dns
<aquentson[m]>
I'm not sure how familiar you guys are with bitcoin I presume to some extent
<aquentson[m]>
and not fixating on fine details
<aquentson[m]>
conceptually
<aquentson[m]>
I should think its the same
<aquentson[m]>
you have a full client that downloads all things
<r0kk3rz>
stop talking about bitcoin :)
<Alpha64>
no there is no downloading all things part
<sknebel>
in IPFS is there is no need to have nodes that download all
<Alpha64>
you only download what you request
<aquentson[m]>
and a light client smartphone app that connects to this full client
<aquentson[m]>
the gateway then becomes the full client
<Alpha64>
and there is no smartphone app
<aquentson[m]>
and you cant shut that gateway
<r0kk3rz>
the gateway is just a bridge, its not the only one
<aquentson[m]>
sknebel, the full node doesnt download all
<aquentson[m]>
but can access all
<r0kk3rz>
there are many gateways, you can run one if you wanted to
<aquentson[m]>
yet to access it, presumably, it needs to download resource intensive stuff
<aquentson[m]>
but once it does download it
<aquentson[m]>
presumably
<Alpha64>
read the paper
<aquentson[m]>
you can have a smartphone app
<aquentson[m]>
that connects to the full client
<r0kk3rz>
aquentson[m]: you presume wrong, you just download the stuff you request, like a webpage
<r0kk3rz>
or whatever
<aquentson[m]>
and through it
<aquentson[m]>
access all the stuff
<aquentson[m]>
thus getting around dns gateways
<r0kk3rz>
dns is only used as a bridge to regular http internet, its not a core part of ipfs at all
<aquentson[m]>
sir
<aquentson[m]>
normies need to use it
<aquentson[m]>
somehow
<aquentson[m]>
what I read as far as catalan is concerned is some dns site was used
<aquentson[m]>
which like all sites
<aquentson[m]>
was banned
<aquentson[m]>
then another one was spurng up etc
<aquentson[m]>
making it no different than if no ipfs
<aquentson[m]>
what would make it different is if dns wasnt needed at all
<aquentson[m]>
which is what I am trying to understand
<sknebel>
it's not needed if you run a local client
<aquentson[m]>
as far as end user practical matters are concerned
<aquentson[m]>
not what is, but whether it is actually needed
<aquentson[m]>
sknebel: I understand that, but why cant you remote access the local client?
<sknebel>
you can
<sknebel>
that's a gateway
<aquentson[m]>
a dns?
<sknebel>
if you want to connect to something remote, you need to know where it is. Which is what DNS is used for (although you could of course also just publish it's IP address, then you don't need DNS)
<sknebel>
(remote = over HTTP)
<aquentson[m]>
you just said a local client can do the job of the dns?
<aquentson[m]>
sknebel (IRC)
<aquentson[m]>
23:08
<aquentson[m]>
it's not needed if you run a local client
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<aquentson[m]>
so why use a dns instead of connecting to the local client?
<sknebel>
You asked if you can connect to a local client remotely
<DuClare>
"local client remotely" talk about oxymoron
<aquentson[m]>
it has an ip doesnt it?
<sknebel>
yes
<aquentson[m]>
you can connect to that
<sknebel>
that's what I said
<aquentson[m]>
remotley
<aquentson[m]>
the smartphone app
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<sknebel>
a browser, yes (since the gateways speak HTTP you don't need a special app)
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<aquentson[m]>
but why must it be a browser?
<aquentson[m]>
why not a smartphone app that directly connects to the local client
<DuClare>
What do you want to do once you're connected?
<aquentson[m]>
have access to the local client and the ipfs network
<aquentson[m]>
and operate as the local client
<aquentson[m]>
so connected to it
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<Icefoz_>
jfc
<Icefoz_>
an IPFS node connects to a bunch of other nodes and says "hey I'm here" and the other nodes say "cool, here's some other nodes we know about"
<Icefoz_>
An IPFS node tells its neighbor nodes "I want the data with hash WHATEVER"
<aquentson[m]>
yes, that's how decentralized stuff works
<Icefoz_>
whatever nodes in the network find that data and give that to the node that requested it.
<Icefoz_>
That's all.
<aquentson[m]>
there can be many different nodes
<aquentson[m]>
master nodes, slave nodes, light nodes, full nodes
<aquentson[m]>
anyway
<Icefoz_>
It has nothing to do with DNS because all the nodes talk via IP's, afaict. All nodes are the same unless the person running one decides to do something special.
<Icefoz_>
There's no shared state like a blockchain beyond what the nodes tell each other about each other.
<Icefoz_>
It's Napster but high tech and awesome.
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<aquentson[m]>
lacking UI tho, can be awsome as it pleases if normies cant access it
<aquentson[m]>
in catalan it was... I mean just normal url that obvs can be banned and I think it was
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<tmerr>
hello! i am just learning about ipfs and am a little confused
<Alpha64>
ask
<tmerr>
no
<tmerr>
sorry, just a minute, i am not sure i can formulate a question
<tmerr>
so i am basically trying to understand the way the distributed hash table and bitswap protocol work together
<tmerr>
if i know, from my hash table, which node has the block that i want, do i just directly establish a connection to this node as a peer, and advertise that i am looking for that block?