<Alpha64>
are you going to make a loader for three.js ?
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<substack>
I haven't used threejs in 4 years so probably not
<Alpha64>
so what's your target?
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<justintv90>
Hello everyone
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<justintv90>
After running this cmd "ipfs add -w <file>". I can open it by the given hash on the localhost. Then, I changed localhost into ipfs.io. It didn't work
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<Alpha64>
did you start the daemon?
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<justintv90>
Yes. I started the daemon, I even can see other nodes which I connected in localhost:5001/webui address
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<whyrusleeping>
Hey everyone, there are 0.4.12-rc1 binaries up on dist.ipfs.io, please go try them out!
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<daviddias>
Good morning! Who will be at Mozfest this weekend ?
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<drozdziak1>
lgierth: So, does hosting an ipfs node mean mining filecoint?
<Alpha64>
no
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<lgierth>
filecoin will use ipfs, but ipfs itself is completely independent of filecoin
<lgierth>
"incentivization optional"
<Icefoz_>
Best incentive for IPFS is to make things that do cool stuff with it.
<lgierth>
the goal for ipfs is to replace http and become a core internet protocol, which is pretty impossible if an incentivization scheme is directly coupled to it
<Icefoz_>
So people say "I wanna use this cool thing, what's this IPFS thing attached to it?"
<Icefoz_>
and you answer "IPFS is what makes the cool thing possible"
<drozdziak1>
lgierth: You mean, the access to IPFS content should be free of charge?
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<Icefoz_>
Is access to your hard drive free of charge?
<Icefoz_>
is access to bittorrent free of charge?
<Icefoz_>
Is access to HTTP API's free of charge?
<Icefoz_>
It's a tool.
<drozdziak1>
Icefoz_: It (HDD access) is in a sense, but then if I'm accessing my data from someone else's drive, it's their HDD that wears down because of that.
<drozdziak1>
s/of that/of me/g
<lgierth>
it's all voluntary
<drozdziak1>
Is there any exhaustive explanation material I could read/watch?
<lgierth>
and if you want to be paid to store things, you'll become a filecoin miner
<Icefoz_>
Sure. But people do things that are good for other people out of the kindness of their hearts, sometimes.
<Icefoz_>
Like seed torrents.
<lgierth>
and i you don't want to trust volunteer nodes with storing your data, you'll pay filecoin
<Icefoz_>
There are also services where you pay someone to host IPFS content.
<Icefoz_>
Which is sort of the economic shortcut until Filecoin exists.
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<miflow[m]>
Does gx pin the packages, cache or mv them into the filesystem
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<lgierth>
miflow[m]: puts them into $GOPATH/src/gx/
<lgierth>
and if you're running ipfs, it'll fetch them into its repo first
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<miflow[m]>
* miflow ist overflowing with project ideas
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<Martinhandy[m]>
Did i just got mentioned(highlighted within riot android) due to miflow simply writing mv?
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<drozdziak1>
If I add something to ipfs, does it get distributed to someone else's computer?
<r0kk3rz>
drozdziak1: not unless they request it
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<drozdziak1>
Oh, so it's more like BitTorrent in that matter?
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<r0kk3rz>
yes
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<r0kk3rz>
its like a big bitorrent you can dynamically add stuff to
<drozdziak1>
r0kk3rz: how does it differ from BitTorrent? Who's keeping track of the DHTs?
<lgierth>
imagine it like bittorrent, but where all torrents make up one huge interlinked data graph
<lgierth>
plus where you can import data from other content-addressed systems (git! torrent! bitcoin! ethereum! zcash!) and reuse the existing hashes for that data
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<drozdziak1>
Okay. I can see now that the white paper isn't that long, I'll maybe return with some more elaborate questions :) lgierth r0kk3rz Icefoz_ Thanks!
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<lgierth>
you're welcome - also note that the "importing data from other systems" bit is relatively new - the whitepaper hasn't seen any significant edits since 2014 i think
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<drozdziak1>
Okay. I suppose it's still a viable way to start
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<lgierth>
definitely - it's accurate in all of the important points
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<miflow[m]>
mv, I would be surprised
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<drozdziak1>
lgierth: But the network's architecture means that what Catalonians have to say cannot be stopped anyway, right?
<lgierth>
yeah if you use ipfs itself it's all fine
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<lgierth>
there are more advanced blocking techniques outside of the EU, which ipfs is not yet on par with, but in spain it's fine since they do the easiest to circumvent stuff - DNS
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<drozdziak1>
Suppose someone enters a plane with some IPFS files on their smartphone. Would people in their destination after landing be able to access this data?
<Alpha64>
yes
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<lgierth>
yeah if they have the hashes
<drozdziak1>
Damn, the implications of all this simply escape me
<Alpha64>
it's like torrents
<lgierth>
it's like the http web - you need some entrypoint, be it a search engine result, or a direct link
<lgierth>
except those links aren't bound to a location (=hostname) in ipfs
<drozdziak1>
lgierth: What happens if a file's only copy gets unpinned?
<drozdziak1>
Is it lost forever?
<lgierth>
immediately? nothing. but when the respective node runs garbage collection the next time, it's get deleted
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<drozdziak1>
I mean, it probably is, but how does that correspond with IPFS talking about it being permanent?
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<r0kk3rz>
however, if someone has the file and can re-add it, the link remains the same
<drozdziak1>
Neat
<drozdziak1>
I saw that there's an ipfs version of the Wayback Machine
<r0kk3rz>
its permanent as in hash X will always point to file Y, maybe nobody can provide that file though
<drozdziak1>
But is there a node which backs IPFS itself up as well?
<lgierth>
the web of links is permanent (links don't change and are verifiable)
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<lgierth>
it's a bit confusing to have ever mentioned permanent -- the idea was that the links are permanent, and the persistence of the actual data is another layer
<lgierth>
we're trying to get away from that wording ;)
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<r0kk3rz>
indeed permanence and computing dont really go well together
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<Icefoz_>
Permanence and reality don't go well together. :-P
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<drozdziak1>
Why did Juan think of IPFS only 2 years ago? Was there a breakthrough we needed to be able to do this?
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<r0kk3rz>
not really, the core pieces have been available for at least 10
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<lgierth>
the first draft of the paper was ~3.5y ago
<lgierth>
i think he was just one of the very few people who started attacking the problem space from the protocol angle
<lgierth>
while almost everyone else builds compact apps/products and then try to extract protocols and reusable pieces from that
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<lgierth>
in some regard it's similar to the ipv4/ipv6 migration problem: how do we get people to start using ipv6, while ipv4 works just fine
<lgierth>
with ipv4 being http, and ipv6 being ipfs
<lgierth>
the http/ipfs difference is obviously much bigger than ipv4/ipv6
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<drozdziak1>
Hmmm, it's all nice and dandy, but there's a huge risk if someone discovers a shellcode inside ipfs such that e.g. all Linux nodes execute some unwanted code?
<drozdziak1>
s/\?//g
<drozdziak1>
lgierth: IMHO it's the hardware and protocols-below-HTTP changes, e.g. we could ditch IP altogether and switch to stuff like ZigBee or Wifi Direct
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<drozdziak1>
Then, IPFS could fit that nicely
<lgierth>
we could have wifi direct and zigbee transports, no problm
<lgierth>
it's all pretty pluggable
<lgierth>
e.g. for browser nodes, there are webrtc and websockets transports, and the circuit relay protocol helps them connect to nodes that don't speak webrtc or websockets
<r0kk3rz>
they do IP over CCSDS, we can do ipfs to mars :D
<lgierth>
would be great to get our hands on an implementation
<lgierth>
and try simulating two nodes over a multi-minute-latency link
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<drozdziak1>
Icefoz_: My irony sensing abilities are a bit dim on IRC. Are you joking? :D
<drozdziak1>
Icefoz_: Sorry, had my backlog scrolled too far up
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<drozdziak1>
Is it possible to change content under an IPNS entry from a different node?
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<drozdziak1>
Can i e.g. take a key that original node used to sign its namespace?
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<lgierth>
yeah keys are portable
<lgierth>
`ipfs key` and `ipfs name publish -k`
<lgierth>
you can have multiple nodes publishing to the same key, and/or one node publishing to multiple keys
<lgierth>
just make sure you don't run multiple nodes with same "identity" key
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<drozdziak1>
Do all pinners hold the information about an IPNS entry? I mean, suppose I've got a popular piece of content and would like to change the IPNS entry. Am I the only one able to direct users to my IPNS content?
<drozdziak1>
(repeating, not sure if my bouncer relayed that) Do all pinners hold the information about an IPNS entry? I mean, suppose I've got a popular piece of content and would like to change the IPNS entry. Am I the only one able to direct users to my IPNS content?
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<pjz>
drozdziak1: no, pinners hold info on the hash. your IPNS entry points to the hash
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<drozdziak1>
How can I use the peer links feature?
<drozdziak1>
I mean taking an ipns entry and making it into something shorter
<lgierth>
if so your dns provider should offer setting various types of records
<drozdziak1>
No, not at all
<drozdziak1>
I don't real dns, the white paper described those as something more like bookmarks
<drozdziak1>
s/I don't/I don't mean/g
<lgierth>
yeeah that doesn't exist yet :) you also can't use pinning to track updates to an IPNS key yet (hopefully in Q1/2018)
<Icefoz_>
hmm, while Im thinking of it, what is the proper way to verify that an IPFS hash is valid? there's this whole multiaddr hash format but it's a bit of a big stack to absorb.
<lgierth>
as a shortcut you can use `ipfs add -n <file>`
<lgierth>
which does chunking and hashing, but doesn't actually add
<lgierth>
-n | --only-hash
<Icefoz_>
well I need to be able to write a program to do this
<lgierth>
and ipfs verifies each block on retrieval
<Icefoz_>
just take a hash from a user and verify it's not malformed before storing it.
<lgierth>
we'll have libs for it, promised :) in the meantime look at go-ipfs/unixfs (unixfs protobuf structures), go-ipfs/importer (chunkers), go-ipfs/merkledag (merkledag protobuf structure)
<lgierth>
ah malformed
<lgierth>
check out ipld/cid
<lgierth>
there's js-cid and go-cid libs (rust too maybe?)
<lgierth>
the QmFoo hashes are CIDv0, and CIDv1 is the new stuff. both are valid and supported
<Icefoz_>
I confess I've considered writing a minimal IPFS server in Rust :-p
<Icefoz_>
but should probably wait untill things are more firm
<lgierth>
great :)
<lgierth>
there's some initial work in rust-land
<Icefoz_>
it looks like CID is what I want, thanks.
<Icefoz_>
yeah I've seen it. :-)
<Icefoz_>
some infrastructure libraries, nothing functional yet. I'll wait 9 months for you lovely madmen to get specs firmed up before getting into it seriously, most likely.
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<lgierth>
:)
<lgierth>
the specs will hopefully be mostly complete earlier
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<lgierth>
this quarter is docs infrastructure and tools, then ramp up the actual writing of docs and specs
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<Icefoz_>
I look forward to it! any thoughts on what an actual 1.0 version might involve?
<lgierth>
security audits of all layers, a lot faster, able to add/store/fetch petabyte datasets, IPRS (record system, for better ipns and other stuff), fast IPNS, more network transports, seemless interop between browser nodes and other nodes, 3 stable implementations (go, js, ?rust?)
<lgierth>
a fully working ipfs node in browser addons
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<Icefoz_>
oh, is that all!
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<lgierth>
i probably forgot a ton of stuff :)
<lgierth>
1.0 means rock-solid to us, runtime-wise, feature-wise, security-wise, docs-wise
<lgierth>
we still consider ipfs to be alpha software, although granted it's already super good and useful for a ton of people
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<Icefoz_>
I think you might get more play if you took a more incremental approach
<Icefoz_>
but my biggest project is an order of magnitude smaller than IPFS, so
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<Icefoz_>
and I'm biased cause I'm interested in IPFS essentially as an object store, so things like unixfs, network transports and petabyte scale storage are irrelevant to me.
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<Icefoz_>
while a record system would be dynamite but not worth waiting for if it's just an idea.
<lgierth>
iprs is actually already specced out, somewhat
<lgierth>
we've just put it on the backburner for over a year to focus on more urgent things