jackdaniel changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | offtopic --> #lispcafe
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<phoe> helloooo
<pve> phoe: thank you for the heads up re: anonymous classes
<phoe> pve: there is also a solution posted by no-defun-allowed
* pve checks
<phoe> don't add the anonclass to the list of subclasses of standard-object
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<pve> yes I see, that's good to know
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<pve> though I have not yet committed to using anonymous classes
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<pve> I might have been in the clear anyway, because I believe the code I have for removing classes tries to clear those links
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<Josh_2> Has anyone here made a webdev framework in CL?
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<Josh_2> frameworks do seem pretty cringe to me when you can just generate html and js per request
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<escanda> makes sense when you want to decouple the frontend from the backend. in particular graphql seems pretty promising deprecating rest calls
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<ldb> good evening
<Josh_2> hey
<escanda> beside, cl doesn't have yet a solid component framework (aside from weblocks and ucw - which is unmaintained)
<Josh_2> what is a component framework?
<escanda> you define functional blocks, which are rendered in some way, which maintain state, and let you do stuff such as a counter on a site across requests
<Josh_2> hmm
<Josh_2> that seems like a fun project
<escanda> but then you can build upon them stuff such as datatables, wizards, etc...
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<Josh_2> wizards?
<ldb> too scared to write web
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<Josh_2> huh?
<ldb> i mean, i only know how to generate plain html and js
<escanda> web is cool with the right tools. otherwise it can become cumbersome
<Josh_2> ldb: oh right well the major web frameworks are just cringe imo
<MichaelRaskin> continuation/closure based sessions become expensive if you are not careful, though…
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<MichaelRaskin> Restas is probably middle-ground
<escanda> if we'd serialize them and store them somewhere else... so yep. i am not an advocate of continuations on web frameworks
<escanda> but restas is only a way to define REST style endpoints
<MichaelRaskin> I think in Restas it is pretty reasonable to define render functions for stuff and compose as needed etc
<ldb> guess in the old days it was called "callbacks"
<escanda> i may be thinking of a different framework. let me check a sec
<MichaelRaskin> Archimag's GitHub is still online, though
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<escanda> if it's this one: https://github.com/archimag/restas I think it's not enough for most complex business style apps
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<MichaelRaskin> It's enough for functionality of business style apps, but maybe not for some of the flashy garbage
<escanda> if there was something such as JSF for CL (looking at you UCW), that could be great
<escanda> yes hehe
<Josh_2> I was thinking about writing something along those lines
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<escanda> Josh_2, take a look at Caveman: http://8arrow.org/caveman/doc/caveman.widget.html
<Josh_2> Yikes at that documentation
<Josh_2> looks like It's written in org-mode or something
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<escanda> nonetheless the intent is really fine: they don't use continuations and there are some example widgets for bootstrap
<Gnuxie[m]> the second one isn't documentation, it's just generated from docstrings so there's probably somewhere where the readme part is rendered properly
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<escanda> yep. what I am feeling pretty strong is the realm of parser generators where you only have cl-yacc for serious business :(
<escanda> if I where a lisper I'd give it a try
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<MichaelRaskin> What don't you like about esrap?
<MichaelRaskin> (Sure, both PEG and CFG are broken approaches, in a slightly different way)
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<escanda> didn't know of esrap :) pretty cool
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<escanda> a while ago I had to write a SQL parser and end up doing everything in java with antl4 because all possibilities I found were quite a pita
<MichaelRaskin> I wrote esrap-peg to generate Esrap rules from PEG grammar written in an implementation-independent way
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<escanda> fml. I am pretty dump algorithm wise. but the idea was to write a query planner in cl
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<MichaelRaskin> Query planner sounds like a lot of algorithmic work
<escanda> not exactly a common query planner. my boss wrote the whole thing on an algo he developed. but i wanted to put all pieces together in a single service; and for a while I wondered whether I could write it in CL
<escanda> (it was less work than a vulkano or lattice based planner)
<escanda> it was basically a branch & bound algo with some variables, but we didn't make it before the startup ran out of cash
<escanda> good times :)
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<pve> Hi, I wonder if someone could explain something to me. I'm working on my toy language and have the classes and metaclasses set up the way I want. Everything works beautifully, except I'm seeing some excessive memory usage when defining classes.
<pve> Here is a reduced example that I believe demonstrates my issue:
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<pve> When I run that script from the shell, I see about 7.5MB used for those 200 classes.
<pve> That doesn't seem right.
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<pve> In contrast, doing 200 "normal" (defclass foo-N () ()) ... takes around 200kB
<phoe> I see the same, and it might be a SBCL-specific question
<phoe> most likely metaclasses are much heavier internally for whatever reason
<pve> I might be screwed if that's the case :)
<phoe> well, ask on #sbcl!
<pve> oh, good idea
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