<White_Flame>
each symbol has a value, but also a sideband key/value property list
<White_Flame>
(and other stuff, too)
<charlie770>
beach: thanks
<charlie770>
White_Flame: what do you mean?
<charlie770>
an example?
<White_Flame>
the example in the GET page there does walk through the steps
<White_Flame>
makes arbitrary symbols with GENSYM, and sets stuff in its plist
<White_Flame>
this style isn't used very often in modern code, though, since hashtables were created after those
<White_Flame>
are you reading really old code?
<charlie770>
White_Flame: the source of lem
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<White_Flame>
yep, I see that in there now
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<no-defun-allowed>
I would have thought I could find some techniques for reducing latency when pointer-chasing in Netfarm from object-oriented databases (which are neither), but the papers don't really have impressive results.
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<White_Flame>
yeah, the plists can be pretty fast depending on how often they're used
<no-defun-allowed>
Oops, this isn't #lispcafe.
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<fiddlerwoaroof>
hhdave: that clim-web system looks cool, but I seem to have to use a fairly old parenscript to make it work?
<flip214>
johnjay: well, something like Java's foreign look isn't appreciated.... and having some abstraction that provides simple dialogs should be possible, no?
<jackdaniel>
because the person behind it had practically zero impact on the community (putting aside insults)
<jackdaniel>
I'd love to elaborate, I'm going afk, sorry (and indeed, mentioning that was a bit offtopic on my side)
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<flip214>
fiddlerwoaroof: CAPI as in the Cryptography API, the telephone API, the PowerPC API? How does that help with UI?
<phoe>
flip214: CAPI like the LispWorks GUI framework most likely
<flip214>
right now I'm using hunchentoot and start a local browser
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<Xach>
I am adapting Vectometry into an animated gif library. I intend to quantize the canvas to 256 colors with the octree method.
<Xach>
Has anyone else quantized with that or another method before?
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<Xach>
Reading the paper involves puzzling out pascal syntax and semantics :~(
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<MichaelRaskin>
Of all languages, Pascal is not a hard one with respect of figuring out syntax or semantics just from reading…
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* edgar-rft
tries hard to imagine an animated library
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<splittist>
It's a better way of presenting the source code - not just colorized, but dynamic...
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<phoe>
Xach: what's Vectometry?
<phoe>
oooooh, I see
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<ldb>
good evening everyone
<phoe>
hello
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<jeosol>
Good morning guys!
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<Josh_2>
Hey
<jeosol>
Hi Josh_2
<jeosol>
I see a new SBCL is out today. BTW, how are you guys managing and testing with compiler version. I normally just upgrade with a new version and regenerate a bunch of core files.
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<jeosol>
However, I am getting to a point where I may pin things down to use certain version. I have not used roswell, so may be it does what I need. I try not to update on a machine that runs my long jobs
<jeosol>
open to ideas
<ldb>
I think most common lisps are compatible with old versions
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<ldb>
and that is one reason I like CL
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<Josh_2>
I just dont update for about a year
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<jeosol>
Ldb: very good point, I have never had any incompatible issues at all. Only issue is the core files I used, I sometimes run a docker image.
<jeosol>
yeah, regarding incompatible changes, I occasionally have to deal with "python version hell"
<jeosol>
Josh_2: A year is nice.
<jeosol>
not big changes month to month, but probably more from year to year
<ldb>
jeosol: Oh, I don't assume binary file compatiblilty
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<jeosol>
ldb: yeah, that's my main issue - though, I could just keep the old versions and use the old binary files. It doesn't take much to generate the core files.
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<jeosol>
I am trying to learn docker .. and its docker-compose, but I haven't been able to make things work well - the part where run a service.
<ldb>
it might be a good idea to keep the SBCL version util some major upgrades are made to your program
<jeosol>
yeah I agree.
<jeosol>
I think managing multiple versions on same manage is probably not worth the hassle
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<beach>
Is it fair to say that the purpose of this function is to take a specialized lambda list and return a generic-function lambda list?
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<Bike>
maybe for the "defmethod without a defgeneric" case, but it's more generally useful
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<beach>
OK. I guess my question is whether things like default values for &optional and &key parameters should be removed.
<beach>
... and supplied-p parameters.
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<beach>
... and &aux parameters.
<Bike>
i think it usually removes defaults and stuff? on existing implementations i mean
<beach>
OK, I'll go with that for now. Thanks.
<cl-arthur>
the description only says that it removes specializers, though. I'd find it surprising if something described as removing specializers also removes information unrelated to specializers.
<jeosol>
I took an interest after beach's link. I ran the last command, but didn't get &optional in the rest, but got &rest instead
<beach>
jeosol: The last example is wrong.
<jeosol>
sbcl --v2.0.10 if that matters
<jeosol>
oh ok
<jeosol>
I was surprised at the result, so I said I should try it out. Good to know
<beach>
cl-arthur: Hmm, I think you are right. This thing is useful for the method function.
<beach>
I'll just write a separate function for extracting a generic-function lambda list from a method lambda list.
<cl-arthur>
sounds like a good approach to me :)
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<hhdave>
fiddlerwoaroof: I'm glad you're interested in it. It does use an old parenscript, yes. I tried a newer one but it broke some code I was generating. It would be nice to update it though.
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<johnjay>
hhdave: that reminds me, I was going to ask what are the cutting-edge type libraries in CL
<johnjay>
I suppose people never remove things from a language. But it can evolve over time with new libraries
<johnjay>
nyxt looks cool for example
<phoe>
johnjay: cutting-edge type libraries? you mean something with type systems?
<exit70[m]>
neither has working "save application"
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<johnjay>
is mcclim mostly functional at this point?
<johnjay>
i assume that's why it says climaxima in the name
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<phoe>
yes
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<scymtym>
McCLIM is not strictly functional in the sense of, for example, ELM, but it has a concept of presenting data, accepting a user command, then re-presenting the possibly changed data
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<exit70[m]>
I will test my luck with some old mac emulators. my ppc macs might be too "new"
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<Josh_2>
can I use fast-io to read from a file or do I have to read my data and then I can use fast-io for rapid read writing once in ram?
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<phoe>
fast-io creates this buffer structure
<phoe>
it has an underlying stream
<phoe>
so you can create a fast-io buffer from a stream and then use fast-io read functions on that buffer object
<Josh_2>
See thats what I tried but I guess I was doing it wrong
<phoe>
for an application named FOO, (define foo-condition () ()) and then (define foo-error (error foo-condition) ()) (define specific-foo-error (foo-error) (...))
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<phoe>
these are the two most obvious ones I can think of, the first one being actually mandated by the CL standard
<jcowan>
Okay, let me reformulate. Where neither of the direct supertypes are generic ones like simple-condition.
<MichaelRaskin>
nfs-condition could plausibly be a subtype of both network and filesystem condition
<phoe>
I guess it's like with classes; whenever you'd otherwise need multiple inheritance for whatever reason..
<phoe>
so wherever e.g. mixin classes^Wcondition types come into play
<phoe>
more from the standard, reader-error is both a parse-error and a stream-error
<jcowan>
MichaelRaskin: It seems to me that a NFS condition could be either a network or a filesystem condition, but hardly both. If you get a network error, you have no access to the file system, ugye?
<phoe>
(define-condition person-not-allowed-into-building (person-error building-error) ()) and such
* phoe
goes asleep
<MichaelRaskin>
jcowan: you get a network error, and you get failed read